kwolf68

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:42 PM) But they're not going to do that. JP Riccardi has made it clear what type of package he wants for Roy. I mean c'mon. He wants Clayton Kershaw from the Dodgers. He wants Derek Holland AND Justin Smoak from the Rangers. So now that the deadline is just over two hours away he's going to ask for considerably less? He'd be fired on the spot. How do you know JP won't soften his stance? What is he supposed to say, "yea...we're going for the moon and stars now, but around 4 today we'll take a little less." Of course he's going to come out asking for huge returns to begin with, maybe he can find someone to be foolish enough to do it. But I can't believe he isn't prepared to talk about a lesser bounty than what it is perceived. GM's lie all the time, they are playing poker. Hell yea, why not ask about Kershaw...what's the worst that will happen? Just a dial tone. His current demands are way out in the stratosphere, almost so ridiculous it's not even part of a credible negotiation...I just think he's trying to set the bar.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:34 PM) But aren't you implying that a team such as the Phillies should pay that ridiculous price no matter what? No I am not. What I said about the Phillies is they didn't part with ANY of the 4 top guys they wanted to hang onto (Taylor, Brown, Happ, Drabek) to get Cliff Lee. So they still have what appears to be plenty of resources left IF THEY WANTED to talk to Toronto. NOW, it's likely The Jays would want ALL FOUR of those guys (based on their dizzy demands to this point) and at that point the Phillies GM would have to decide that tough call. I am not in favor or against making that move. In other words, if Philllies GM said those 4 guys were too much for Roy, I understand that. If he did deal them for Halladay I can understand that too.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:32 PM) So you're saying 1+1=2? You're not getting what I'm saying. Of course adding Halladay would make them better. Just like it would make the Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, Angels, Dodgers, ect, ect,ect better. But at what cost? Short and long term? These are factors that can't just be brushed aside. Again, easy for a fan to say. A GM can't think that way. But GMs think that way ALL THE TIME. Unreal. There are bucketloads of examples of teams dealing tons of prospects for a single player to help them win now. At what cost? The offers speculated from the various teams have been VERY impressive. There is of course a limit on everything. I am not saying trade your 10 best prospects for Halladay, but the Phillies (or anyone) going after him and moving several prospects is a normal thing in baseball, not complicated at all...the only thing complicated is which prospects and how many you want to give up. If the Blue Jays would soften their stance from insane to marginally crazy Halladay would be on a new team today.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:27 PM) And yet the games "best righty" is more than likely not going anywhere. So I guess it's just a case of teams not wanting to get better? It's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be. Halladay may not go anywhere because the Blue Jays asking price is ridiculous. I've even said that in this thread. However, if they decide to compromise a bit, then Halladay surely will go somewhere...and guess where he will go? To a team 'in position' to win the World Series BEFORE the trade. He's not going to Pittsburgh or Arizona...he's going to a team with a chance to win it all. WITH or WITHOUT HIM. With him means their (whoever gets him) chance just got a whole lot better.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) he said 3 MORE titles Who knows how many it could be. Could be less, or more depending on what Doc thought. If Halladay went to Phillie he would be virtually guaranteed of being on a legit contender for the forseeable future (2-4 years). He can either pitch in nothingness in Toronto or pitch for a chance EVERY YEAR in Philly. That would be as close to guaranteed success as playing for the Bankees or Red Sox. He's be on the big stage every year. The Phillies also have money, they could lock him up to an extension.

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) 2008, 2009, 2010 = three. They could also resign Halladay. If the Phillies dumped more spects to get Halladay you'd have to think they'd really try to get him locked up. Who knows what would happen on that front, but the Phillies with Doc would be in position to win it all for the next 'how ever many years' the core of that team would remain (which would cost money obviously).

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) They're already in position to do this. They were also in position before obtaining Lee. Adding Halladay means THEY GET BETTER. The better they are, the better chance they have to repeat. Not saying they should do it necessarily, but if they did I'd applaud them for going for the World Series with absolutely determination. Screw 5 years down the road when you're margin for error for winning the World Title in the next two years is SEVERELY reduced with the addition of Doc.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) Being "instant" WS favorites means nothing. Now if you can guarantee a WS title (which nobody can ever do) then you might have a point. Which makes 5 years down the road even LESS relevant. Teams do whatever they can to 'be in the conversation' for a World Title. These prospects the phillies have are not guaranteed anything. In fact, they NONE are the next Lincecum or Pujols...sure they are nice prospects doing good things at AAA or lower ball, so you're going to hang onto them? Speculate...while the games best righty and an even bettter chance to win it all again goes by the door? There are two schools of thought. I honestly agree with them both depending on the circumstances of the team. The Phillies ARE A TEAM that I would consider moving top prospects to get Halladay, because all their pieces are pretty much there...adding one more starter, one of the games best righties, to an already great team, defending champion wouldn't be a hard move for me to make personally. And BOTH schools of thought ARE adhered to by GMs around the league, neither is right or wrong.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:10 PM) That would be pretty stupid, IMO. Most fans don't seem to get this. But a GM has to look 3-5 years down the line as well as focusing on the present. To give up what it would take to get Halladay on top of what they just gave up for Lee would cripple them for years. There are plenty of examples of teams with a 'going for it now' approach where they take on salary, add veterans, deal prospects if they think there is a chance to win a ring. With Halladay they would have a serious chance to win at least 2, 3 more World Titles, one at least.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 01:01 PM) Imagine if the Phillies go after Halladay as well. I think it'd be a smart idea if they just sold out the farm system and got Doc. Instant WS favorites with Doc and Lee in that rotation. Considering they didn't give up ANY of Taylor, Brown, Happ and Drabek in the Lee deal, that's not as far fetched as one would think. The Phillies would be absolutely nasty if they added Doc to that already outstanding team.

Ok, lets try this again...Holland and Smoak would be the White Sox two best prospects in my view. The Jays wanted BOTH those guys and two more of their top prospects. I don't think we could match that.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Well, Seattle did trade away Clement and some other solid prospects the other day for Jack freaking Wilson and Ian Snell. They seem pretty stupid to me. LOL. Yea, but there is stupid and then STUPID. But it probably was worth the call to check out King Felix's availability. Gawtdamn with him and Burls, Danks and Floyd that's pretty rockin'.

I fooked that one up. lol

Seattle would be absolutely foolish to unload Felix. Isn't the idea for a team on the rebuild to get younger and better? Who is younger and better than him? Lincecum maybe, but who else? I doubt they are shopping him, probably just nosey GMs seeing if Felix can be had. I trust and hope KW was one of those 6 teams who called about Felix.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 12:45 PM) sounds like not much is brewing. Which means something major is brewing.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 12:23 PM) Nice. Thanks for the friendly discussion. I meant no harm in that comment. I apologize if I offended, didn't mean to... Sorry.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 12:13 PM) Because maybe he gets hurt? Maybe he doesn't click with Detroit's pitching coach? Maybe he doesn't like pitching in Comerica? Maybe he didn't want to get traded? Maybe he goes into a funk? Or maybe, it's biz as usual and he continues to pitch lights out. Like I said, it SHOULD help their rotation, if he continues to pitch the way he has recently...but as we've seen with many pitchers, that doesn't mean it will. Ahh I get it, or maybe he becomes a monk and goes off to mission in the dessert and quits baseball. Given the choice between Washburn and Galaraga/Porcello in the three spot in that rotation a guy who is pitching the way he's been pitching this year is a vast upgrade. We have to believe he'll pitch pretty much like he's been pitching this year...that's the safest prognostication. Sure, your hypotheticals could play out, but I'd wager on different results.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 09:00 AM) David Wells pitched for 20 years. I would hardly call his career shortened by his weight problem. But he drank beer, it's a scientific fact beer adds to life.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) It should...but that doesn't mean it WILL. Why won't it help their rotation? Washburn has been brilliant this year (WHIP of 1.07, 2 something era) in large part due to adding a sinker to his game.

Ms didn't get a great haul here.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) Wonder if Seattle would deal Ichiro.... Now you're talking. Ichiro would solve SO MANY problems on SO MANY levels for this team...defense, speed, GREAT hitter. He's getting up there in years, but for the next year or two he'd be terrific in our outfield. Him hitting in front of Gordo and Quentin would make our order interesting.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 11:42 AM) Why is Seattle selling??? Hope they got something good. They are 8 out. It's been a nice season for them, but they aren't making the playoffs. Bedard being injured all the time helped doom them, Morrow hasn't developed as fast as they wanted either...But Aardsma has been a find in the closers role and Washburn has been virtually unhittable for much of this year.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 11:37 AM) Toronto is asking for a lot, undestandable position to take, but his value lowers significantly after the deadline today. What Toronto is asking for is obscene. If I was Toronto I'd keep the guy and anchor that good young staff around him. They already have several excellent prospects, many of which are already doing good things at the big league level (Romero, Cecil, that Rezpek...however you spell his name guy). They wanted Holland and Smoak from Texas, with TWO more top prospects. I don't think we have a single pitching prospect in our system near as good as EITHER Holland or Smoak, yet we think we can obtain this guy? I don't mind bringing in more pitching, but feel like moving on these Halladay types is counter-productive given our GLARING need in Center Field.

The Tigers needed to get him, because Porcello is fading and Galaraga can't be counted on. Their rotation isn't as good as ours depth wise, thus the need to move on Washburn. What we need is to get someone to play CF not named Kotsay or Wise. I'd be all in favor of that kind of move.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 11:17 AM) Are you look ing at 2009 or beyond? Cuz, the Peavy deal was for this year, next, next, next and maybe even next. Haren would be the same. Halladay, not so much. If Kenny can get a SP that will help the Sox for the next 3-4 years, he's going to buy if hte price's right. If not, no SP. I am looking at both and also looking at the fact our non starting rotation lineup is below average. We're already getting great starting pitching and still barely a .500 team. This rotation is easily good enough to be 10 games over .500 and in first place. We still have the absolute worst center field situation in the history of baseball going on. If we have all these resources to get a pitcher, maybe we should focus on adding some skill to our lineup. Having Wise or Kotsay playing CF and leading off is just laughable. We're a station to station baseball team and we don't even do that very well. The 'price won't be right' for Halladay and it wasn't for Peavy. Ditto Haren. I am absolutely against unloading talent for pieces we do not need. I would like to see Kenny improve this team, but improve the weaknesses of it.