kwolf68

They signed a veteran middle relief pitcher for nearly 20 million over 4 years...that's not cheap in my view.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 03:19 AM) I agree with you, that it sheds bad light on the guys Rowand left behind. At the same time, who knows what it takes to bring these multi millionaires together as a team? Rowand apparently is a true chemistry guy. Maybe he was the Sox's Thurman Munson. OK, rip away. Since Rowand was a White Sox player and we always bury our own on here, blast me for comparing Rowand to Munson. Blast away. No one can argue with this. I honestly didn't want ANYONE traded off the 2005 team. I wanted to give the same guys the chance to play as defending champs. Its likely we'd have still come up short, because we had a couple pitchers fall off the ledge in 2006, but what guys like Rowand bring to the table can't be measured with OPS.

Linebrink is over-rated and over-paid. The reason he is now in Chicago is because he is one of KW's pets. Williams loves the guy. We are looking more and more like the San Francisco Giants-cum-Washington Redskins every day where we get older and older and worse and worse thanks to an owner/GM interested in collecting baseball cards and are thus building up quite a team for 2003.

How many more slow, aging guys who can't play much defense do we need?

Even if we were to give up the last 4 good remaining prospects we have left, I don't see the pitching that can win the AL Central, let alone the American League pennant.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Nov 25, 2007 -> 06:56 PM) Slightly OT, but shouldn't his lifetime ban end since his life is in fact over and has been over for approximately 50 years? Otherwise, they should just call it an "eternal ban". LOL...good point.

It's foolish to even consider MCab...there is no way we will ever get him, because we don't have the prospects Florida requires. The Angels, Dodgers to name two teams could give the Marlins a deal the Sox couldn't touch. If Crawford is the target I'd kill for him. He's been a diamond in that junk of an organization, he is under contract for the next 3 years and it young, can hit leadoff. Having Crawford and OCab hitting in front of PK, Thome and Dye isn't bad at all...

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) People who are surprised and/or upset with these moves don't understand the direction the team is going. Like it or hate it we're trying to win now. That means established veterans and those types of players tend to be expensive whether your giving up talent (Garland) or cash ($19 million). Personally, I don't really like the direction we're headed because I don't think we have enough to work with but I've accepted it. The dies been cast for a while now. Nice in theory, but much work is left to be done to get into that position. Maybe Linebrink is a piece, but overall this team sucks. Our third-5th starters are Count, Floyd and Danks. While all have (some) potential, it's a very ugly rotation if these guys don't really step up. We also have no leadoff, no CF, questions at 3rd and 2nd and our proven good players are getting older by the day.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 10:56 AM) I doubt any poster on this site has downplayed the trade value of Sox players as much as me but even I know that Jenks has significant value. He's coming off his best season, he's still cheap and under control for 3 (maybe 4) years. He's young. He's a "proven closer". Rivera is getting $15M a year. Middle relievers in the FA market are going to sign for $5M a year on up. Jenks is the most valuable player the Sox have under control. He's easily worth Cano straight-up. Maybe the Yankees won't do it because they love Cano, but some team would give up multiple major league players for Jenks. The Padres got multiple players for Scott Linebrink, a couple decent prospects at that. Indeed, if Jenks were to go to the market, we'd be able to get 2 very good prospects MINIMUM.

This is a damn joke. Jenks for Damon?

Uribe is drawing lukewarm (at best) interst from Tampa Bay. He is overweight, overpriced and overrated. His defense is also in decline (they think).

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) Just curious, how do you define the word "decent"? Breathing.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 12:49 PM) From the take it for what it's worth file, George Offman on the Score commented the Rays do have some interest in Uribe. That's all he said. The Rays are notorious to try to deal with. I expect a 27 year old A-ball player in any deal with those guys.

A free swinging, slow short-stop who hit in the .220s during a contract year. Yea, we'll get a lot for this guy.

QUOTE(whitesox1976 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) Why in the world would KW trade Garland and keep Contreras I will never know. Thanks for the 2005 World Series champion, Jon. We'll miss you. Simple: Because Kenny can't trade Jose. He's gassed and the real sad thing about this is Kenny didn't know he was gassed until the jalope' actually broke down on the side of the road. Kenny is such an ass. You don't trade in your junker car after it throws a rod and that is exactly what Williams tried to do last year with Jose. He couldn't get anyone out so Williams goes shopping him, as if the other GMs in baseball don't watch TV. He goes to shopping Dye in a contract year, shops Mark in a contract year, shops Crede coming back from injury going into a contract year. Crede was wanted by the Angels last year and any reports you read said the Sox were due to bring in a pretty nice haul, but Williams was out of his mind and didn't try to trade Crede UNTIL NOW, after his back finally gave way and with a contract year getting ready to start up. What is he doing? It's par for the course with this guy. Hang onto guys one year too late and then quickly try to deal your diminishing, aging talent before anyone notices they can't play anymore. He just continues to make this team older with no rhyme or reason. He's a lot like Dan Snyder, just collecting guys, making moves for the hell of it so his own name can be in the papers. If Williams ever wins another World Series again it will be a miracle. The guy sucks as a GM. He got lucky in 2005.

Not old enough, but he may make up for it in Kenny's eyes by having an atrocious arm. We should go with Pierre, Pods, and Owens in the outfield and have all three of them lineup just to hit the cutoff man.

I think so too. Hell, it's a perfect time to deal Crede and Kenny Williams being the master he is knows RIGHT WHEN to deal a player...hmmm, it's outstanding baseball managing to deal a player coming off a blown out back heading into a contract year. Yep, that's the ticket. I'm thinking a high-A ball or AA prospect is coming...no wait, this is Kenny Williams, if the player isn't well into his 30s, we're outta the picture.

Williams used to have a mantra that said he wasn't trading pitching without getting it in return. I understand people sometimes should liberalize their views somewhat, but we go from that to trading pitching for an aging player heading into contract year? Truth be told, the Angels probably trading Cabrera at the EXACT right moment. He's coming off a good year and is heading toward that age where one's shelf-life becomes a question. The ONLY thing good about this is it means Uribe won't play SS anymore.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:06 PM) Look what he turned down for him last year. And, 4 months ago he turned down Renteria AND a pitching prospect. Last year he turned down Garland for 3 players...this year he turned down Renteria + prospect and now he goes for this. I know some in here think Williams is the deity for 'winning it all in 2005', but the guy appears hapless to me. He doesn't seem to know WHEN to deal players and always tries to trade away players after they've been exposed, aged too much, become injured, or are on the cusp of a contract year. This is remedial s*** Williams is missing now.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:50 PM) They felt they had to open the spot for Aybar and/or Wood. The thing that's funny is that the Angels STILL haven't addressed their offensive problems (the lack of one more middle of the order power hitter)...not having another big bat like Konerko in that line-up has been enough to cancel that strong starting pitching, lockdown bullpen and multi-faceted offensive attack in the post-season. You don't think adding MORE starting pitching will allow them to address those offensive problems? They added DEPTH at the most IMPORTANT position in the game and only had to give up a 33 year old player going into a contract year to do it. Don't be shocked if they make a subsequent deal within days + to get Garland they didn't have to unload a single prospect, average or otherwise, from their already loaded farm system.

The reason this pisses me off so much is because the White Sox ONCE AGAIN have traded a player ONE YEAR TOO late. We could have had Tavares, T.Bucholz, and Jason Hirsch from Houston last year for Garland. I am not saying Bucholz or Hirsch will become studds, but they have solid arms and were young. Tavares could have filled our need at leadoff/CF. Obviously, Garland's value was higher not going into a contract year, BUT THATS WHEN YOU FRIGGING trade guys, WHEN THEIR VALUE is high. Now, his value is down some as he is heading into a contract year after not pitching well in the 2nd half. So we're left adding an aging (though talented) player ALSO in a contract year. We gave up PITCHING for this? Williams tried to deal Jose Contreras last year...yea, during a span where he COULD NOT get ANYONE out. Jose C? A 57 year old Cuban that can't get outs is worth how much? Joe Crede? As much as I love JC, the Angels wanted him last year...WANTED HIM and I heard rumors that we would get either Lackey or Escobar and or a couple top prospects for him....this was the time to move on Crede. NOW? Crede (and agent Scott Bora$$) are now heading into A (you guessed it) contract year, COMING OFF major back surgery...and what is Ken Williams doing now? SHOPPING JOE CREDE. You needed to deal him (and Garland and Jose) LAST YEAR when you could actually GET SOMETHING FOR HIM. Shopping a broken down player in a contract year with the most obstinate agent in the game won't get you jack crap. Another nice job by Williams. HE pulled this same s*** with Buehrle...shopping him around in the mid-season and no one wanted to give up the farm for a two month rental. He held face on this one when Buehrle took about 15mill less to stay with the White Sox. Then there was Dye...an aging, injury proned outfielder had a MONSTER year in 2006. He comes up in 2007 and during a contract year WIlliams SHOPS HIM...Boston was willing to toss a couple mid-range prospects at us, but nothing more considering Dye was a TWO MONTH RENTAL. You could have probably gotten some real decent talent for Dye AFTER 2006, not during a broken down 2007. Williams got lucky, DAMN LUCKY to win the World Series in 2005...he stumbled into that one. He's now driving this franchise right into a fooking iceberg.

Baffling. The aging process continues. Pathetic.

I think they are a mess, but like some said let's see what we can put together by ST. I honestly believe the Sox are probably going to get older, slower, with more injury issues by going after players on the downside. What little talent we have remaining in our minors will probably be jetisoned for the flavor of the week, circa 2002. If I am wrong and the Sox go after younger and better athletes and fill out our roster then maybe not so much a mess, but our minors are in shambles and Sox brass is in the 'lets go for it' mindset, which in my view isn't based in reality and is more an attempt to hoodwink Sox fans into dropping their scratch on laborious station to station baseball with players who may be on the downside of their career. Im still excited about this franchise however, because 2005 wasn't so long ago.

Cant wait to see what we get for a player coming off serious back issues heading into a contract year.

More aging, injury proned players....perfect.