Fantl916

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 05:07 PM) Mets fans: hardy har har. maybe if they changed that to Murphy, Neise, Martinez, Heilman, and and Holt... hardi har har

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 11, 2008 -> 10:46 AM) Street is crap. Depends on the context, as a closer... yes, and a middle reliver... the expectations would be lessened and he'd be fine

If everyone really stops to think about it, KW and the Sox are in a great spot here. Jenks and Vazquez don't have to be traded, but if teams miss out on the Texiera's, K-rods/K Wood's, Peavy's/Burnett's/Lowe's of the world they might look to the Sox as having the only good options otherwise. KW has the luxury of waiting for the market to set itself, and not pouncing on the first decent deal that presents itself. Imagine what Omar Minaya is offering right now for Jenks: let's for example say it's something like Neise and Heilman. What if the Met's lose out on all the good free agent closers, and miss on on trading for guys like Huston Street (even though he sucks). Imagine the leverage KW establishes. Same thing with Javy. If a team wants a "good" SP (and yes i know many dont think Javy's good, but his general perception around baseball is that hes very good) could net us way more in 2 months after Lowe, Burnett, Peavy and Sabathia are all off the market than it would right now. The market, which currently might include the Mets and another team or so, could grow to include the Yankees, Braves, Orioles, Angles, and so on depending on how the chips falls. KW then can pick and choose and whether there's a package worth trading Javy for. I think with guys like Dye, Javy, and Jenks, you dont just trade them to trade them because you want to "sell high". We don't need to trade any of those guys per say, but if we wait long enough we just might get that offer that blows us away enough to trade them... my dream scenario looks like this: Swisher to Colorado for Tavaras and Street Jenks, Broadway, and BA to the Mets for Murphy, Neise, and Heilman CF: Tavaras 2b: Murphy LF: Quentin RF: Dye DH: Thome 1b: Konerko SS: Alexei C: AJP 3b: Fields SP: Buerhle, Danks, Floyd, Javy, and Richard/Neise Bullpen: Richard/Neise/Count, Dotel, Linebrink, Thornton, Poreda, Heilman, Street

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 11:48 AM) Wow, Holliday has to be pissed. FA next year, and this is probably the last place he wanted to go to pad his numbers. I'd be inpartial if i were him. Have you seen the pitching in that division? It's terrible... besides the Angles, Seattle and Texas have absolutely horrible staffs... the NL west doesnt have the same problem...

I've made this suggestion a few times in the "dont trade Vazquez" thread, but i thought if we were to trade Javy that the Mets would be the team to trade with and Daniel Murphy and Heilman would be a good return for him. You could plug Murphy into 2b and 2nd in the lineup, and having Heilman as a mid inning reliever would allow you to explore trading Jenks or Dotel. if you made the Javy, BA, cash for Murphy and Heilman trade, you would have to consider what Bobby might be able to bring you... i could see a scenario where we made that Javy trade to the Mets, sent Bobby and Broadway to Tampa for Sonnanstine (best case) or Edwin Jackson (more probable case) and Wade Davis, and rolled with Thornton as our closer. These two trades would add Murphy to the offense while subtracting only BA, and we could feasably roll with a staff of Buerhle, Floyd, Danks, Sonnanstine, and Richard/Free agent with Wade Davis waiting in the wings. our bullpen would be fine with Linebrink, Dotel, Heilman, Russell, and Thornton, with other minor league guys helping out. just a thought

Isn't Cole pretty comparable to AJP with a little more power and a little less contact?

I think they could be the perfect fit for us. Say they trade Jordan Schafer in a Peavy deal, or Francouer in some deal. I think they would consider a deal built around Dye or Swisher and Yunel Escobar or Kelly Johnson. If we could grab one of those two i would be pumped. Either would be good at 2b defensively, and kelly can leadoff while yunel could bat 2nd. just throwing this out there. discuss

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 06:25 PM) Tim Wakefield (he's more likely to retire than to pitch for the ChiSox) Andy Sonanstine (better, but more likely to get Edwin Jackson and what do we have to give up?) Kyle Davies (definitely not better than Javier) Kevin Slowey (MN would never trade him to us, but I would take him in a heartbeat) Rich Harden/Ryan Dempster (way too expensive) Todd Wellemeyer (mehhh) Joe Saunders (would be prohibitively expensive to acquire) Clayton Kershaw (Dodgers wouldn't dream of dealing him yet) Ok this pisses me off... are you guys serious? really? Wakefield doesnt hold a torch to Vazquez Sonnanstine only recently became reliable, but he did it for 1 year, 1 YEAR! He's just as likely to turn into Brian Bannister next year as he is to stay solid, but he's far from reliable Kyle Davies? WHAT!? Slowey is not Minnesota's 4th guy, he's their 3rd behind Liriano and Baker, I'd call Blackburn their 4th and Javier is surely more dependable than Blackburn, and more reliable because of health than Slowey Wellemeyer is terrible, absolutely terrible. he's only ok because dave duncan is a genius Joe Saunders is solid, i'll allow you to say he's CURRENTLY as good, but again he only did what he did for one year, so you cant call him dependable Kershaw, he's not Javier good... yet, but he should be Harden, yea when he's healthy he's a top 5 pitcher in baseball, but how often is he healthy and how much does he tax a staff with his absence People need to realize that $12 a year for what Javier does is absolutely fair market value. 100% fair market value. if you want an ace, go get sabathia at $20+ mil a year. Javier isnt an ace, and the reason people piss on him is because they think he should be. temper you expectations and you'll learn to love him because he does what he does every year, and every year he helps a staff stay fresh and keeps the team in more than enough games. i sure as hell hope we dont give Javier away for anything less than 2 very good ML ready piece (i.e. Daniel Murphy, Aaron Heilman esque). I am not ready to move on if we go into next year with anything less than a very dependable starter in the 4th slot, and none of you should be either.

there is a reason yankee and red sox prospects get all the attention they do, and it's not because they're always better than the next prospect... hype does play a part when you're discussing certain organizations...

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 11:29 AM) Rickie Weeks would be a bad acquisition, he's poor offensively and defensively. I'd love to see KW unload Vazquez to Washington for Zimmerman and prospects, then send Dye to SF for Jonathan Sanchez. Rickie Weeks would be a great addition. BJ Upton was absolutely terrible at 2b too, so bad that the Rays wouldn't play him period at the ML level to spite his offensive talents. They put him in CF and holy crap hes a solid CF. Weeks was a top 5 prospect only 3 short years ago, has been plagued by a broken wrist during that time that hurt his numbers, as well as other various random injuries. If you're looking for a guy who could be this year's Quentin, he fits the profile better than almost anyone. He has legit 30/30 talent, and his OBP will come up if he's healthy enough to bat .260-.270. Consider his speed, and i bet he'd be pretty similar to Upton defensively in CF. im not saying he'd be a hero, but if you are able to get him for a mediocre prospect and a decent bullpen arm, why wouldnt you? if he gets completely healthy and transitions to CF he could be a force at the bottom of the order. realize the Brewers thought enough of him to bat him leadoff. I want no part of Zimmerman, i think he's horribly overrated and it would cost at minimum Vazquez, Poreda, and Getz considering the Nationals franchise considers him their best player. He is great defensively, but he too has health problems and offensively isnt anything this team needs. he is nick swisher offensively at 3b. Dye for Sanchez? Sanchez with his 5+ era in the ultimate pitchers park? yuck... absolutely yuck... Konerko for Sanchez and a prospect would make more sense. Dye in theory should bring you more than a average young SP with crappy control

Rickie Weeks to play CF and bat 9th (for Adam Russel, John Ely/Lucas Harrell) Daniel Murphy to play 2b and bat 2nd (from Mets with Heilman for Vazquez, BA, and cash) Those two guy would be sexy

Anyone given any thought to the Sox trading Javy to the Rockies for Atkins? I think Atkins would be a good fit for this team. Haven't really looked at his numbers or salary, but just a quick thought that came into my head.

I see this as Kenny grabbing insurance for what the Sox probably see as Getz's role next year: bench infielder. This allows us to deal Getz without really feeling like we have no viable options to replace him in his role, or have another guy if Getz struggles. Overall a sound signing by KW I also think this could be a strong precursor to a Brian Roberts deal, or a deal for another middle infielder. I don't think the Orioles will have any legit options at 2b and I assume they would want Getz to be a possible replacement if a deal was to go down. Then again i am probably reading too far in to this...

I am a huge advocate of dealing for Rickie Weeks. He has been constantly hampered by random nagging injuries (wrist, hammy). I truly believe a change of scenery will do this guy absolute wonders. I think something like a solid prospect and good bullpen arm could get it done (think John Ely and Boone Logan/Wasserman). He is low risk, huge reward. Don't forget this guy was a top 10 prospect only a few years ago, and has 30 home run, 30 steals in his arsenal. You let him get healthy, stick him at 2nd base, and take the pressure off of him by batting him 9th. He essentially then becomes an emmensely talented #9 hitter capable of hitting 30 home runs and playing secondary leadoff, and not killing you with his .230-.250 average. You would still have to search for a leadoff guy, but Weeks could be absolutely huge for this team... I hope KW goes hard after him, and we land him... he'd instantly be my favorite White Sox...

The best part about reading all of these posts are that people are looking in all the logical places for players who will be on our team next year. I keep reading Figgins, Brian Roberts, Beltre, Atkins, etc... I also keep reading that it'll be easy to trade for Figgins with Paulie, we can outdue the Cubs (and everyone else in MLB who wants a leadoff 2b) for Roberts, and the Mariners will give away Beltre, bla bla bla... First, the Angles do in fact have a decent alternative if they can't sign Texiera, and that's Kendry Morales. Some of you might laugh, but I would bet that the Angles brass would rather have have Morales bat .270 with 20 home runs and a cheap contract than Konerko and his .245 average with 25-30 home runs at $12 mil a year, especially since it would cost them Figgins... There will be a TON of teams after Roberts if he gets put on the trade block, and I would estimate it would take at a minimum Fields, Poreda, and someone like Shelby to beat what someone else might be willing to offer. Beltre will probably come the same as Roberts, as will Atkins. We might have the pieces for this, but I doubt Kenny goes that route unless he thinks he can sign Roberts to an extension. In my opinion, and I'm gonna be a little outside the box here, under the radar because that's how Kenny Williams operates, I think we won't end up with any of the big guns everyone's talking about. Rather I think you will see subtle moves that some will like and others won't, but moves that potentially have very high upside. Here is what I'm thinking... 1. I think we package a couple decent minor leaguers (let's say Ely and someone like Sisqo) for Rickie Weeks to fill our hole at 2b. Now i know what you're already thinking: "That injury prone, crappy average, crappy defense, hugely talented guy? No way, you're an idiot..." But this is precisely what the Quentin move was, a move for a once hugely heralded young talent that has hit some injuries and rough patches, and has played hurt, albeit Weeks has struggled a bit more than Quentin at this level. Maybe he needs a change in scenery and a chance to get healthy to fulfill his promise. You trade for him, let him get healthy, and once he is bat him 9th and start him. If nothing else he's a speedy power source at the bottom of the lineup, and Getz is always there as a backup in case it doesnt work out. Big upgrade over Uribe in the 9th spot, and if it works out ya move Beckham to 3rd, if not his replacement is in Chicago by 2010... 2. Sign an innings eater for the 5th starter spot to a 1 year deal, someone like Braden Looper, Paul Byrd, or Odalis Perez come to mind. Guys, we are not trading Javier Vasquez. Yea he might suck in big games but the guy is someone we can depend on to be effective enough over 200+ innings. As a 4th starter he's great. It would be nice to not have to force Clayton Richard into the 5th starter role, as he showed brilliant stuff in the playoffs out of the bullpen, and I think he would be UNREAL in the long relief/spot starter role, with an aim towards eventually grooming him for the rotation. Guys like Looper, Bryd, and Perez aren't always pretty, but they can keep your bullpen from getting taxed and often enough put you in position to win games. Also this move doesnt necessitate Contreres coming back to the rotation upon his return, which is a good thing. 3. I am of the frame of mind that we don't need to make a big splash on the trade market to get better. I actually think we can get better by addition through subtraction. Nobody is going to like this, but at this point I think trading Paulie for prospects will make us better. Before you criticize, hear me out. Paulie is our emotional leader offensively, but he's an aging 1b who bats .245 and hit 20-25 home runs with iffy defense, and those are easy to come by. You can convince some contending team looking for a 1b or a DH to take him I'm sure for a few prospects, and maybe the Angles will to spite having Morales. If Paulie were to accept a deal somewhere that leaves us with Swisher at 1b, who essentially should replicate Paulie's numbers with a little better defense and a bit more pop if given the playing time. I don't see us trading Dye either, he's Thome replacement as our DH after next year. 4. That leaves us with the leadoff question... who is that gonna be? I estimate that we let Crede go and start Josh Fields, with Getz playing super-sub at 2b and 3b. That would mean that our leadoff hitter is probably coming from center field... You could look at this a couple ways: we could go get a Jerry Hairston Jr type, trade for someone like Coco Crisp (horrible idea if we did, but would fit the CF with speed), or do what i know people think is a terrible move... just play Jerry Owens. Now look, I don't want to ever read that we should trade for Willy Tavaras, and somebody did post that and I puked all over my keyboard when i did... When Owens played in 2007 he struggled mightily at first, but got better and put up respectable numbers. In fact, his 2007 ratios in half a season where he sucked for most of it were better than Willy Tavaras's ratios from all of 2008. He can steal 50 bases, and he can do so batting .270, which is repsectable. Nobody in Tampa complains about Iwamura, and he really doesnt have great numbers. All you need is someone who can be disruptive. That's what Podsednik was in 2005, and that's certainly what Owens can be when he gets on base. Now i know his OBP will not be stellar, but he's still young, and if he gets regular PT maybe he can improve into a .270 avg, .340 OBP type that steals 50 bases, scores 100+ runs in this offense, and plays quality defense. I like the idea in this scenario of giving Jerry a chance to see what he can do, best case he's Tavaras or Pierre in their primes, worst case you go find an alternative at the deadline. So under my scenario we don't increase payroll, in fact we decrease it, and we get a whole lot younger, but I think we'll still be plenty competetive CF: Owens C: AJP LF: Quentin RF: Dye DH: Thome SS: Alexei 1b: Swisher 3b: Fields 2b: Weeks Bench: BA (OF), Getz (2b/3b), Hall ©, Wise (OF), Uribe (3b/SS) Staff: Buerhle, Floyd, Danks, Vasquez, Looper Pen: Richard (Longman, spot starter), Wasserman, Dotel, Linebrink, Thornton, Jenks Just my two cents trying to play the forecaster...

Andy Sonnastine = terrible... our offense might be struggling a bit but if we cant pile on 4-5 runs on this guy then we deserve to lose. come on guys, patience and execution...

if is says "not broadcasting" is something wrong?

Beckham is now 3-3 with a HR... i love him... between Alexei, Quentin, and Beckham I think the White Sox have marketable players for the future of this franchise... Beckham looks like the absolute real deal (and yes i know it's Low A)... It'll be fun tracking him through the minors the remainder of this year and next...

C - AJ Pierzynski 1B - Nick Swisher 2B - Danny Richar SS - Gordan Beckham 3B - Josh Fields LF - FA signing (maybe a Shane Victorino type with speed to bat leadoff) CF - Alexei Ramirez RF - Carlos Quentin DH - Jermaine Dye I dont buy into Jordan Danks' koolaid yet, the guy hardly produced to a star level in college, and until i see it in the minors i am not jumping on his ML level bandwagon. you have to think a big FA signing is going to happen between now and 2012 SP1 - Gavin Floyd SP2 - Javier Vasquez SP3 - John Danks SP4 - Lance Broadway SP5 - Mark Buehrle MR - Aaron Poreda MR - Boone Logan MR - Adam Russell SU - Scott Linebrink SU - This will be a future draftpick or FA signing (either a Joshua Fields type or Jonathan Broxton/Heath Bell type) CL - Bobby Jenks

This has been a dream CWS for me. I was born and raised in Fresno, and grew up a big Fresno State kid. To me, they're are 1a on my college love list with Oregon (i went to school there). Yet i love Fresno for this run, as the team showed great heart, and embodied everything sports should be all about: guts, heart, fun, and never giving up. Great stuff That said, I am also i diehard Sox fan, and loved what i got to see from Beckham all CWS. He's going to be a great asset for Chicago, and he looks like he has great leadership qualities to go with his outstanding talent. lets get him signed so he can show the world who the best Beckham in the draft was Go Fresno State!, GO SOX, and GO BECKHAM!

I am willing to bet any amount of money that Justin Smoak is taken by the Giants with the 5th pick, so long as Alvarez doesn't slide down to them... The Giants wants bats in their system, and most likely a college bat that can impact them sooner than later considering how horrific their current offense is. I bet they take Smoak if Alvarez is off the board and pencil him in as their 1b of the future (considering he'd arrive in SF long before Angel Villalona anyways) Posey, Alvarez, Matusz, Crow, Smoak, T. Beckham, and Skipworth are probably all gone by the time we pick.... IMO it's gonna come down to Hosmer, Wallace, or G. Beckham... If Smoak was there i'd be pumped... but I'm seriously doubting that's going to happen. Teams will view Smoak as the cheaper and more advanced alternative to the Hosmer (high school, Boras client)...

I hope he stays in the 3rd slot in the lineup for the next 10 years. It's been tough for me to find a legitimate favorite player since Big Frank left... but I think I'm falling hard for Big Carlos. That guy is a stud, and his bat flip is legendary :notworthy

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 03:09 PM) Somewhere Paul (flailing at changeups) Konerko, and Juan (cant hit anything in the dirt) Uribe are thanking their lucky stars. if i remember correctly Uribe was one of the few that actually occasionally did something against santana... could be wrong tho...

Im kind of tired of hearing we cant compete... there is no reason to believe that we arent every bit as good as the tigers and indians... just look at this side by side of the rosters C: V. Martinez > Pudge > AJP 1B: KOnerko > C. Guillen > Garko 2B: Polanco > Richar/Uribe > A. Cabrera SS: Renteria => OCab > Perlata 3b: MCab > Fields/Crede > C. Blake LF: Quenten = M. Thames > J. Michaels CF: Sizemore > Granderson = Swisher RF: Magglio > Dye > F. Gutierrez DH: Hafner = Sheffield => Thome #1 SP: Sabathia > Verlander => Buerhle #2: Carmona > Vasquez = Bonderman #3: Willis = Byrd = Contreras #4 & 5: Rogers/NRob > Westbrook/Laffey = Danks/Floyd CL: Jenks > T Jones > Borowski BP: Cleve > WSox > Tigers (without Zumaya) think of it this way... cleveland gets way too much credit for having an offense that is far inferior to both the sox and tigers. The tigers lost their best bullpen piece, and have just as many questions about their rotation as we do. Willis is going to be god aweful in the AL. The tigers offense is absolutely massive, but i think ours can be just as good if some key guys simply return to their career averages (dye, Konerko, AJP) and swisher's BA is going to rise 20 points in the Cell (oakland has that HUMONGOUS foul territory remember). If beurhle ad vasquez pitch like they can, contreras is average, and danks and floyd dont absolutely kill us we can stay with these guys. dont just throw in the towel b/c of what some biased writer says. the yankees are paper champs every year and when was the last time they won?

For everyone who is dogging this trade calling DLS and Gio "aces if they stay healthy" i would like to point something out... its simple... really... are you ready? Our top prospects over the last 5-6 years have been... Jon Rauch, Brandon McCarthy, Kris Honel, Joe Borchard, Jeremy Reed, Bobby Jenks, Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney, Joe Crede, Matt Ginter, Dan Wright, Kip Wells, JOsh Fields, and Jon Garland... Of all those guys who have once been in Baseball AMerica's top 100 and towards the top of our W. sox prospect lists only Jenks, Garland, and to a lesser extent Crede, Wells, and Rauch have done much in the majors. Rauch is a decent RP. Crede had a couple mediocre years and one good year, now is often injured. Jenks is a stud, Garland is a solid SP. Kip is a below average SP. OTHER THAN THAT MOST ARENT ON ANYONES RADAR ANYMORE! you say to me: "well s*** steve, DLS and Gio are great and have tons of potential. i mean crap, Gio led the majors in K's and Sweeney is still young and DLS has GREAT STUFF!" I say NAY! Sweeney looks an aweful lot like Jeremy Reed to me. and we dealt him from a position of excess (OF) where we still have young guys like Owens and B. Anderson to go along with Dye, Quenten, and Swisher. I care not about Sweeney's inclusion because he is a prospect, and has a long way to go to be anything more then an average major leaguer. Brandon Mccarthy and Rauch once led the minors in K's too... then they got to the majors and couldn't strike out anyone. Gio has a filthy curve yes, but his change is subpar and he is inconsistent with his fastball velocity and command. if he doesnt improve drastically in those areas he wont ever be more than a #4-5 SP. Fautino has a great fastball and curve, but no changeup. the higher up he goes, the more you are gonna see people hit him if he doesnt develop one. moreover... HES IN SINGLE A! he is at a minimun 2 years away, and not only that has to continue to improve and stay healthy. THEENNNNN he has to prove it at the major league level... Prospect lovers, if you would like to hinge the future of this franchise on those who haven't proven a thing on the major league level then you are no better than a gambler who more often than not loses his money. more often than not prospects do not come through on their promise. is that to say that KW should deal all our young players? no... but in a trade where we land a great 27 year old OF with star qualities it does make sense. Swisher instantly becomes one of the faces of this franchise, and will be beloved in Chicago (which btw is a place none of the 3 guys we traded were gonna be this season). Hope and potential are nasty words in sports, and I for one have grown tired of waiting on the promise of our top prospects only to watch them suck once they get to chicago. if 5 years from now Sweeney is a solid corner outfielder, Gio is a #2 and DLS is a #1 then eff me, but realize that that is a best case scenario, and even then THAT SCENARIO WONT EVEN HAPPEN FOR 5 YEARS! by then we will have new top prospects for everyone to hype and cry in their pillows over so everyone chear up and WELCOME NICK SWISHER, and FREAKIN FANTASIC ADDITION to a lineup that desperately needed OBP and young MAJOR LEAGUE talent "Steve you're smart!" I know Good trade Kenny