caulfield12

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 04:23 PM) Career relief pitchers are generally inconsistent. The best thing is to develop your own, and even use future starters as relievers for a year or 2. For sure, going out and buying that "proven closer" is a game for fools. Sox will probably have to buy 1 reliever this year, probably from the left side, and pray. But Petricka and PUtnam were virtual rookies, Guerra's a good reliver. Carroll could so well. Webb wasn't very effective, but he was a rookie as well. Bassitt might do relief work this year as well. That guy we got for Dunn might make a run for a spot in teh pen too. Sanburn

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) I don't disagree with you at all. In some ways that's the point I was trying to make - start winning in order to avoid becoming irrelevant. I have very vivid memories of the mid to late 80s when the Cubs were super popular (even though they weren't winning, they were still very popular vis-a-vis Harry Caray) and the Sox were not winning and how completely irrelevant the team seemed back then. It wasn't a particularly pleasant period to be a Sox fan, and I would really like to avoid going back to that type of environment, if at all possible. At least back then there was the new stadium to look forward to, as well as Thomas/Ventura/McDowell/Fernandez/Sosa/Alvarez/Bere/Lance Johnson, etc. Fun times. Except for 2005, 1990 was my favorite all-time Sox season...2000 probably ranking third.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) The problem is that velocity does NOT improve with age. It typically peaks around age 22 and declines steadily. Ventura will have to learn how to be as good as Quintana as he loses velocity on his fastball. Quintana on the other hand, is already Quintana. As for the Proven Ace™ by throwing some good games in the postseason: this is simply bad logic, caulfield. How do you know that Quintana "isn't the type?" He's never been IN the postseason. Also, over the relatively small number of post-season careers that comprise large enough samples to be predictive, they ALL regress to career averages. Ventura's "ballsy" performance is comendable, but simply NOT predictive. And finally: Taking Duffy over Quintana is insanity. Next someone will say that Bumgarner's sample in the post-season isn't large enough...that it's the equivalent of saying David Ortiz is "clutch."

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) You also can't teach people how to pitch and command like Quintana. Plus Ventura wouldn't be the first pitcher with huge velocity to suddenly fall off or lose control and command of his stuff, especially with the innings jump he had this year. I really like Ventura moving forward too, but you just can't make the assertions you are at this point in his career. I also don't agree with your argument that Quintana couldn't be an ace for a team moving forward. You simply can't say that. All you can do is point to how successful he's been up to this point, which is to say he's been very good and is still seemingly improving. If you gave him the kind of defense the Royals have, his ERA might drop below 3. And yet, in your heart of hearts, you would never start Quintana over Ventura in a must-win World Series game for the White Sox.

The Royals never had any elite hitters. Gordon, as a combination package offensively and defensively, is close to elite. Same with Sal Perez, if he's not starting 143 games a season and getting worn down.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) Especially if Shields leaves KC, the gap between the White Sox isn't as large as you might think. If we had the equivalent of Finnegan, Manaea, Lamb and Zimmer, in the upper levels of the minors, I would agree with you. We have Rodon. Then, after that, Montas, who's either 3-4 months away as a reliever or mid 2016 as a starter. Nobody can even predict with 100% certainty that Finnegan won't end up having the best big league career of all the 1st round pitchers drafted in 2015.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:33 AM) Which is completely unrelated to the point you were arguing. The Royals were obviously a better team than the White Sox this year. The whole point about pitching rotations was that greg mentioned that the Royals rotation was something that was good enough that it would be a difficult factor for us to surmount going forward. I just wanted to point out that that is not true, that I'm not even sure it's better than OUR rotation, which isn't even good. You could definitely argue that the Royals rotation is better -- you just have to say that depth is more important than peak talent. Our depth sucks and it's a huge issue. But there isn't ANYONE who would take any of the Royals pitchers of either Sale or Quintana. The point is it's arguable either way and therefore they do not have some juggernaut rotation. I would take Ventura over Quintana in a heartbeat because you simply can't teach a 97 MPH average fastball velocity. He has much better stuff and is going to get better and better unless he gets injured, whereas Quintana's already reached pretty close to his peak. I would probably take Duffy over Quintana as well...but it would be VERY close. In the end, Ventura had proven he can be the "ace" in a World Series at his young age already...and Quintana's not the type since his elite run at the very beginning of his career in 2012 where he will consistently put up shutouts or only give up a single run or maybe two.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) Nobody is taking Danny Duffy over Jose Quintana, get out of here with that. Danny Duffy averages 5 innings a start. That's Hector Santiago territory. Ventura is the #2 and probably the ace moving forward. The Sox have Rodon waiting in the wings too. Are you going to tell me that teams are going to take Danny Duffy over Carlos Rodon? Barring any severe injuries, I feel entirely comfortable saying that the Sox rotation is going to be better - and perhaps significantly so - than the Royals' next year. http://www.faketeams.com/2014/10/7/6932991...duffy-next-year One person agrees with you. Of course, they use the Royals' Defensive Efficiency Rating as 12th (whatever that means) to justify that he will regress because of his SIERA, FIP and FIP+. That's why everyone's frustrated with WAR and ratings for guys like Alex Gordon and Heyward. UZR ratings often don't agree with Defensive Runs Saved, for example. If you looked at Jose Quintana's numbers in 2012 and 2013, the exact same type of article would have been written...and I'm going to guess that the guy who wrote the article has never even watched Duffy pitch a single game, watched how hitters react to his stuff and has never pitched above the middle school level. This guy clearly should be a GM or stock picker, as he has the game of baseball completely figured out....

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:13 AM) Frankly, that is a Skip Bayless/Colin Cowherd kind of argument. "Oh, so if you think that's better, WHY ARE THEY GOLFING THEN?" Well because the offense featured quite a few bad hitters this year, the back end of the rotation was really quite bad, and the bullpen was hot garbage all year long, nevermind a mediocre defensive team outside of like 2 positions. There are holes to fill but this is a team that could easily be competing in the very near future (as in 2015). They have 4 of the hardest things to find in the game right now - an elite middle of the order threat, a very good top of the order bat, an ace, and another very, very good starting pitcher. It's much easier to fill in those other areas than it is to fill those 3. Except it's really NOT THAT EASY, especially when you're looking for a LF who can hit AND field and is not on the wrong side of 30 and declining. For example, LF and DH. Once you get past the headliners in Martinez/Ramirez/Sandoval, then you enter the abyss of guys like Markakis, Cabrera, Rasmus, Morse, Butler, Kendrys Morales, Lind, LaRoche, etc. It's a complete crapshoot....predicting what any of them will do. Who really has a clue how Flowers, or Gillapsie, or Avisail will do in 2015, or if Eaton can even stay healthy? If it was easy to find those offensive pieces, then the Mariners would have been in the playoffs last season. There's a very good chance that Viciedo has a better season than half the guys on that list...but does it for another team.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 09:04 AM) Well this is some absolutely ridiculous hyperbole. The Giants have a much better back end of the rotation, a much better bullpen, and were a better all around offensive team. It's not absurd or ridiculous to say that the White Sox have a better rotation than the Royals but a worse overall team. Except they don't. After Sale/Shields, most scouts would take Duffy going forward over Quintana, everyone would take Ventura over whoever we're claiming as our 3 and then Guthrie/Vargas have a HUGE advantage over Danks/Noesi/Rienzo/Carroll. (And 90% of scouts would take Ventura over Quintana, as well). It is absurd and/or ridiculous or preposterous when Danks/Noesi/Carroll had 3 of the worst 11 statistical seasons for starters with over 80 IP this season in the entire majors.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:46 AM) I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but I'm missing the point. Most here say Sale's better than Bumgarner....while someone else said the Giants were a juggernaut (the same team that Ventura easily beat twice in the span of a week)...and if Quintana's better than Shields/Duffy/Ventura, then the White Sox should be in the playoffs on a regular basis. Yet they're not even close.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 08:43 AM) Winning a World Series vs. trying to protect someone so maybe you can win one in the future.. That decision is pretty easy. If any Giants fan thinks it wasn't worth it, they probably really aren't Giants fans. Only White Sox fans would complain about overuse when that overuse led to a World Championship. Cain and Lincecum are definitely showing some wear and tear...but it's still a lot better than the Strasburg Strategy.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 10:58 PM) It's all cliche. So Maddon is regarded as a great manager. A genius. Big deal. All these managers are basically the same. They make moves that get torn apart. How bout Boche tonight. He should be lauded forever for the way he set that up. They get the lead and Baumgarner is ready to mow down KC for five more innings. Hilarious. Nobody could have orchestrated it better. Meanwhile KC has a perceived buffoon managing the team and they are one Alex Gordon sprint home from tying it and winning it in extras. It's all cliche I tell you. Maddon is just another man. He's no magic elixir. Players win games though I will admit being partial to one, Ozzie Guillen. And what happens if Bumgarner goes down to TJ surgery early next season? I guess most Giants fans will still probably agree it was worth it, as long as it's not a shoulder or labrum.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 07:32 AM) Right, and Sale and Quintana are better than both of them. My point there was simply that their pitching is NOT something that's going to hold us down against them. Our rotation is already better, and it's not even very good. And since Ventura just beat a juggernaut TWICE in the span of a week, and Quintana's better...then the White Sox should have the best pitching staff in the American League.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 05:45 AM) Caulfield has now puiged the royals. They have just become a monstrous juggernaut that cannot be overcome no matter how the Sox try. Pack it up White Sox, 2015 is over It will be a huge surprise if the White Sox aren't picked 4th or 5th by every preseason publication. Not easy to do with one of the five best pitchers in baseball and one of the ten best hitters. Even when the White Sox were "pretty good" in 2012, they couldn't handle Jeremy Guthrie and Bruce Chen. The White Sox DO match up a lot better with the Giants, as we all know. The Giants are hardly a juggernaut either, except they just win when it counts. If the White Sox don't have a payroll over $90 million, your last sentence will be prophetic.

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/interstellar Interstellar in the early going with 10 positives, 2 mixed and 1 negative... Christopher Nolan is a merchant of awe, which is not to say he’'s always selling it at the right price, or that customer satisfaction is guaranteed 100 per cent of the time. Even by his standards, Interstellar is a wild leap of faith: an epic of science fiction which puts equal stress on both words. The scientific basis of the movie, by a whisker Nolan’'s longest ever and certainly his most all-embracing, is challengingly dense, intricately explained, and remarkably codswallop-free. But what pulls you in is its hugely confident architecture as a piece of storytellin;– its brave fictitiousness. Nolan comes very close here, one might almost say agonisingly close, to forging his masterpiece. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/fi...asterpiece.html 74% at Rotten Tomatoes... 23 positive, 8 negative Meanwhile, Nightcrawler's at 90% http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/nightcrawler/

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 01:02 AM) LOL at Lincecum contract; how many of these GMs will continue to make these mistakes? Ones that have won three of the past five World Series....he's also thrown a no-hitter or two in there, ala Buehrle.

Wait another year...or at least half-season. Jordan Zimmermann, David Price, Mat Latos and Jeff Samardzija are all a lot more realistic (because of the "competitive window" realistically beginning in 2016) targets for the Sox than Lester, Scherzer and Shields.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 11:13 PM) 3 titles in 5 years. I usually don't like throwing the dynasty title around like others but.... yea. If Cain comes back 100% next year, they're going to be tough to knock off...and they still have to figure out what to do with Lincecum, who's guaranteed $18 million for next season.

Please bring back the Erwin Santana/Ubaldo Jimenez debates, lol. Starring Santana again, Not So Big Game Jake Peavy, Hammel, Liriano, Volquez, etc.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 03:46 PM) Because they undervalue our own talent and eat their young around here. Or the young eat themselves. Fields, Anderson, Beckham, Morel, Erik Johnson, Phegley, Wilkins, Rienzo, etc. Other than Sale/Abreu/Ramirez, we have failed to come up with any true impact players since we traded for Floyd/Danks/Quentin. For now, the jury is still out on Eaton being able to stay healthy and what kind of power production we receive from Avisail Garcia (not to mention the team's tolerance for below-average fielding at nearly every position). If you want to count Addison Reed as an impact talent, be my guest, have at it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 01:32 PM) I've said it before, and will say it again, there will be a LOT of pressure for the Royals to re-sign Shields that would not have been there if they had flamed out early or missed the playoffs. WHY? They believe (at least internally) Finnegan could one day be comparable to Sale in the rotation going forward. That gives them Ventura, Duffy (one of the most underrated lefties in baseball statistically), Finnegan, Guthrie and Vargas. (Also, a nice balance with three quality lefties and two righties). A lot of that's OBVIOUSLY predicated on Finnegan developing, just like the White Sox with Rodon. A lot is expected of Sean Manaea, too. With the injury in the AFL to Kyle Zimmer, that does put a little bit of a dimmer on their future...but they also have Liam Hendricks, Lamb coming back from rehab/injury....as well as Binford, who pitched very well in the minors this season and made himself into a solid prospect. The Royals can easily afford to let Shields go....although I doubt they'll get into the Scherzer/Lester sweepstakes, they definitely will be looking at guys like Liriano and Volquez that they can pay a lot less for AAV and for years and still continue to plug in their young prospects. A lot of this depends on how serious the Zimmer injury/situation is...

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 29, 2014 -> 09:50 PM) for them it's "been there, done that" Which is perfect timing because it makes it easier for them to move on from Sandoval...and Peavy, for example. With their lack of offense, bringing back Michael Morse would seem to be an imperative, but the problem is he's essentially a DH/1B now and the Giants will want to protect Posey by playing him more at 1B and Susac's waiting in line to get more time behind the dish. Like the White Sox, they need a combo (offense/defense) guy for LF, maybe it's going to be Nick Markakis. Doubt they'd bring back Melky Cabrera. Rasmus is another possibility for them. It would also be quite interesting if Hanley Ramirez ended up playing 3B for SF next year...they can't survive offensively with Ishikawa/Perez/Pagan/Blanco in LF/CF...unless Cain returns as a co-ace with Bumgarner. Both Sandoval and Hanley come with huge risk attached for anything beyond a three-year deal. They're also clearly going to lose Romo, who will get a closer's job again with another team.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/kansa...cle3459750.html The problem for the White Sox is that the Royals probably would have followed up this season by resting on their laurels. Now you have TWO super-hungry teams in the Royals and Tigers, the Twins definitely trending upwards with a new manager/philosophy in place and the Indians still lurking. Hahn has his work more than cut out for him if the budget limit is adding roughly $20-30 million in "new" free agent or acquisition contract dollars.

Lost in the shuffle is how well a rookie in Yordano Ventura won two "must win" games for the Royals to keep them in it. He has a very bright future in the game if he can stay healthy. Yost should never have bunted Escobar in that situation (with Bumgarner shaky and control not locked in) unless he was going to pinch-hit for Aoki...the lack of quality hitters off the bench (they could have brought in Dyson defensively) really stung the Royals there.