caulfield12

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ May 26, 2012 -> 05:33 PM) When was the last time we finished top 5? Probably 2006 or 2008. Although possibly 2010, but I'd doubt it. 2010, 7th in AL runs scored 2008, 5th 2006, 3rd (1st for most of the first four months)

AL RUNS SCORED 1. TEXAS, 261 2. BOS, 240 3. TOR, 223 4. BAL, 219 5. CHW, 214 6. NYY, 213 7. TB, 204 Manto Power. 27,000+ in attendance. We do have to remember no Hafner, no Cabrera, no Carlos Santana, no Grady Sizemore. Santana is actually on the DL now after that shot off the mask. Not sure I've ever seen that...so many concussion-related issues in sports the last 5 years, MLB and NFL especially.

Jeez. 70 pitches already. Peavy has to give us at least a couple of more innings somehow...but Robin's got to keep him from completely blowing us out of the game. 1st and 3rd in the AL in ERA coming into the game, 9 runs already allowed in 2+ innings.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 26, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) Those free baserunners f***ing suck. We had 5-6 great swings in the first, they've had two. But Peavy has nobody to blame but himself. And Kipnis is quickly becoming the most dangerous hitter on the Indians.

Well, that sucks. 6-0 and 4-0 leads against our two biggest divisional rivals. POOF. Leads gone, just like that.

Another argument, +21 RS/RA differential leads the AL Central. Not to mention our 3-6 versus Cleveland's 10-2 record in one run games...and the overall home record has to improve as well. We finally have our bullpen as well-organized as it's going to get, and Chris Perez just isn't that good.

20 RBI's now for Viciedo. Blame it all on Hudson (kind of like when they added Vizquel to the 3B equation in 2010). If Beckham can get rolling in the 2 hole, this team legitimately does have a good chance. You have to believe Ramirez will pick it up at some point, too.

The offense is just rolling. Still gave up 4 runs. That almost never happens when you lose a 3 run homer. Six balls killt today already in just the first inning.

12 game hit streak for Paulie. 21 for his last 39 (.538). 4 homers and 10 RBI's. .385 overall average. Remember the beaning. Dammit, lost a three run homer!!! Crap.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 26, 2012 -> 12:25 PM) The problem for the Sox is that it was more than just "A bad season", it's compounding multiple years of disappointment, ending in 2 really, incredibly disappointing seasons, and big budget cuts/the kids can play rebuilding. It's all because Ozzie isn't around to entertain the fans and media.

I think that's the first time Peavy has consistently thrown 93 MPH in the first inning of a game this season (MLB GameDay readings, not USCF).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 26, 2012 -> 02:58 PM) Be careful though...Viciedo actually hurt himself in spring training. He played through it the whole year. He was effective playing through it, but it effected him the whole year, and it really came back late in the year and really started impacting his swing there. In 2010 he didn't look like he belonged on the MLB roster. He looked like a kid with a ton of power potential but very little control over the strike zone. He hit some early HR (I was in the crowd for his first MLB homer), but then people figured out he couldn't lay off pitches up and he couldn't get on top of them, so he became an easy K. On top of that, he was in the middle of the insane defensive movement the Sox put him through, so he had no position where he was even close to tolerable. It's pretty hard to argue an 840 OPS (with our offensive woes for most of the last 3+ seasons) wasn't SOMEWHAT ready, but you bring up some good points. Interestingly, Dayan's career OPS now is exactly at 741, which is still above the average at LF by 14 points. Out of a 23 year old with tons of potential to keep improving, it should at least bury the trade thread for the remainder of the season.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/cowley/1271...-joe-crede.html Hadn't realized that Morel was dealing with 2-3 physical problems at the same time. Surprised they let things go on as long as they did, based on this. Guess they just didn't have any better options and Hudson wasn't yet available.

White Sox offensive ranks now... 7th in Runs Scored 6th in Homers 5th in SLG 6th in OPS

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 26, 2012 -> 02:25 PM) Viciedo genuinely wasn't ready last year. He would have been better than Pierre, Rios, or Dunn, but that's because those guys were so terrible. He'd have struggled more than we saw in April, especially since he had that hand injury bothering him the whole year (especially late in the season). I think De Aza would have been a serious upgrade last year if Pierre had gone to the bench early when he deserved to, or Rios went to the bench by midseason when he deserved to. I was referring more to that time in May/early June when Viciedo was the hottest hitter in AAA, before he hurt himself. Not sure how we could say he wasn't ready last year when he already showed up in late 2010 and looked like he really belonged for most of his time on the roster...until fading late. Of course, the counter-argument is that Ozzie protected him more and he saw a lot of LHP and was skipped against some of the toughest RHP.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ May 26, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) Does it really matter?? Prospects are never a sure thing until they prove it in the bigs. Look at his numbers before this year, absolutely phenomenal. Things just haven't worked out this year for whatever reason. He's still only 23 years old, if he doesnt make the bigs and Santos comes back from his injury and is a solid closer for years to come then yes it would end up being a bad trade....Enough to can KW, hell no, once again look at the kids stats. Stats don't mean as much before AA. They're one indicator, but making that jump from High A to AA is usually the hardest one in terms of adjustments to the level of talent. In the end, it's always about making projections and weighing potential, risk vs. reward.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 26, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) I go Kenny. Even if Paddy loves him, Kenny makes the final call...and Kenny decides what he's willing to give up for him. He should have gotten a 2nd player back somewhere just to give some insurance incase Molina isn't all that. That said, Molina still has a long way to go before he's a bust. He's a strike thrower...it might well be that he's used to getting people out by throwing in the zone, but now that he's in AA people are hitting his pitches in the zone, so he would instead need to learn to get people out on the corners, and that would take time. Just interesting that there's someone with a very similar fastball in Quintana, and left-handed...and less experienced in the minors, and he's already "major league ready" and didn't cost us anything. I really wonder who was able to straighten out Quintana so quickly to the point where he was the best candidate to be promoted...or if it was mostly a case of the LH-dominated Indians' line-up? Because they could have just as easily chosen to go with Hernandez or even started Santiago and probably gotten 3-4 IP out of him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 26, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) Look, the overall goal is to produce the most possible talent with the resource pool that you have. I could care less if we draft them, if we steal them all from Cuba, if we abduct them from North Korea, if we trade for them, if we claim them on waivers...I could give a rat's ass. We have clearly not had any huge hits with out high draft choices within the last several years. Sale, Hudson, Gio probably being our best selections. However, we have had some major finds in other areas, such as the waiver wire, the Cuban signees, some trades, etc. So technically, by the strictest definition of things, yes, maybe our "farm" system sucks. However, we consistently find ways to produce quality players, and the evidence of that is out there, whether on our ballclub or elsewhere. Except for Chris Sale, and the possibility Gordon Beckham is going to turn it back around and be our regular 2B the next 3 years and put up a consistent 700-725 OPS. Then those drafts look better, along with Mitchell coming along nicely in BIRM and likely to put up even better stats in Charlotte.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 26, 2012 -> 02:06 PM) What do you honestly know about what KW is or is not looking at? Stop with the grandiose speculation. Molina will get to the majors when ready. So if Molina doesn't have a bigger impact than say, Quintana, would you blame that on KW or Paddy? Just curious. Because the fact that he made that mistake in annoucing the trade would lead one to believe he wasn't the key driver on that deal. Yeah, it's speculation, but what else do we have to go on? I'm not trying to be grandiose, but that was our best opportunity of the offseason to get an impact player, and now that window is gone unless we can get something back for Thornton, Crain or Floyd. It's probably NOT going to be THE reason we don't make the playoffs...and maybe there is no way you go out and get a 3B (because of Morel's last 6 weeks) or OF (because you have 3 of them already, plus Lillibridge's 2011)...and the only logical thing at the time was to add to the starting pitching depth. Whoever scouted Quintana in the FSL deserves a ton of credit, though. It's not a league that any of our minor league teams play in, so it doesn't get quite as much coverage or attention.

I think there's also an argument for "reading them the riot" act, calling them to the carpet and leaving a 10% tip but letting them know your dissatisfaction and why you're leaving a more minimal tip. Some people prefer to create a scene and ream the waiter/waitress, then leave nothing. Personally, I usually prefer just to give a 10% or no more than 15% tip if I am unhappy with the service...or I simply won't repatronize the establishment. But sometimes there is a legitimate reason for why the service is bad, so I can understand some people wanting to understand the cause of the problem...and taking that into consideration in their tipping. For example, one of the normal servers is out sick, so all of the staff has 2-3 extra tables to deal with on a weekend. Is it fair to penalize the server in that situation? Or let's say it's a restaurant on I-80 and a huge tour or bus group just stopped by in the middle of the afternoon...sort of an anomalous situation that's hard to plan for when you run a restaurant, unless the bus/tour company has alerted you ahead of time. I tend to be more understanding in those particular situations. It's when there's seemingly nobody in the restaurant and you still have to fight to get attention or it takes forever for the food to be served that can be the most annoying.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ May 26, 2012 -> 09:44 AM) He's highly thought of in KWs eyes, and in his first 2 appearances I see why. Then maybe his "eyes" should be paying more attention to whether our "prize" acquisition of the offseason, Molina, was actually playing Winter Ball in Venezuela or not.

QUOTE (farmteam @ May 26, 2012 -> 12:52 PM) I almost never post in PHT, but sure why not. The point of putting this into THIS discussion was to signal that maybe if that's the best you can say for why the farm system isn't barren, then maybe it actually IS barren. To not point that out would be, as you say, "farting rainbows." Now, I agree with SS2k5 that Sale is a great product of the system, and I've never been as down on our system as some people have, because it's been consistently good at pumping out role players like this. But the problem is when you're ONLY pumping at role players. Sale looks to be bucking that trend, but he wasn't mentioned in the original post. EDIT: I guess you could say the OP intended to include Sale among the "young pitching" comment, but my first post was referring only to the three mentioned in the title. The reverse way of looking that is we produced two strong closer candidates in Santiago and Nathan Jones that weren't on many Top 10 prospects lists for the Sox. Of course, you're talking relievers versus impact/All-Star level position players, but you can make the argument that their development (along with Reed) has paved the way for us to be able to deal Thornton, Crain and Floyd (the other young pitching prospects). If you take that money out of the payroll, you can legitimately make an argument for rolling the dice on the season by acquiring a David Wright type of impact bat. Not that I'm quite ready to advocate that, simply because we've seen how much difficulty NL players have had in their first couple of months (or even season) in the AL.

Leading back to the, WHAT IF DeAza and Viciedo played last year when they were most needed, or even Lillibridge? Ranger Rongey would argue that Dunn and Rios would have been ruined "forever"...or the team's chemistry/morale adversely affected by a Juan Pierre benching. Really hard to argue we "should" have won the division, as opposed to the 2010 decision about the the multi-pronged DH (Jones/Kotsay) versus Thome. But it certainly would have been a lot more interesting.

QUOTE (buckweaver @ May 26, 2012 -> 07:04 AM) Typically "Soxtalky" smarmy quote. Not that everyone is supposed to be farting rainbows and crapping moon pies, but what's the point of putting this into THIS discussion? On the topic, many people believe young player development is integral to building sustained winning. It's probably so. And organizations get evaluated on that...and on how they spend money on big name free agents. But what I do not see (next to never) is analysis of how GMs compare when it comes to plugging major league holes or adding the integral piece. Kenny Williams (and Ron Scheuler before him) is awfully good at that. We went for a number of years with some excellent rent-a-right-fielders. Albeit a week...but Orland Hudson is a great current example. De Aza's pickup off the scrap heap. Hell even the trade for Carlos Quentin. Many more examples out there for sure. So, to the Soxtalk braintrust, how important is this GM skillset vis-a-vis drafting/developing talent? And how do you rate Williams/Sox organization against others. Discuss. Back to lurking. Every big KW move...Jackson, Swisher (both deals), Dunn, Peavy and Rios hasn't worked out, at least to the point where their underperformances and payroll numbers forced us to cut about $25 million (Buehrle, Quentin, Santos) from the payroll. So yeah, we've been able to cover up on the cheap with moves like DeAza, Humber...Quintana would be another example...but we've still got gaping holes (future-wise) at 3B and catcher. All things considered, with the infusion of Reed, Nathan Jones and Santiago, our bullpen has been about as good as could be expected, but is still more talked about in terms of "potential" rather than all the pieces working together like in 2005. The closer we get to first place, the more we get away from "development/rebuilding" and the more dangerous our situation becomes, in the sense that being mired in the 75-85 win range is like death. Those numbers are going to give you low attendance (or falling attendance on a cyclical downtrend) and no sure-fire talent in the first round of the draft. Maybe somehow between Quintana, Axelrod, Zach Stewart, Castro, Hernandez, Doyle, Molina, Hernandez and Hector Santiago, we can fill out the bullpen, the final two rotation spots in 2013 AND survive the losses of Floyd, Thornton and Crain, as those are the only places we could conceivably cut without destroying our chances of competing this year. We definitely have more pitching talent in our system than at the same point in 2011...and Mitchell has made himself into a legitimate prospect again, so baby steps.

Except Wilson Alvarez was really powder river when he first arrived out of the Rangers' system in the Baines deal. That kid could throw the ball through a brick wall, always in the mid 90's and even touched 96-97-98 on occasion, when he really needed it. Quintana's more typically in the 89-92 range, but it's definitely working for him so far.