caulfield12

Mujica got the save last time...somehow the Marlins won it in extras. At least when they blow a save the roof doesn't always cave in completely like with Santos and the White Sox saves the last 2 seasons.

Santos injured. Quentin injured (be interesting to see how long it takes the SF Panda to recover from a similar injury to the Quentin 2008 one)...Ramirez with an OPS hovering around 500 and possibly 2-3 years older than his official MLB age, Floyd wildly erratic and maddeningly inconsistent, Danks causing us to question if the same contract wouldn't have been better put to use on Mark Buehrle for the fans' sake at least. Juan Uribe leaves the team and becomes a post-season star with the Giants and his clutch RBI's are missed from that day on. Joe Crede is never replaced or seen again. Javy, Swisher and Cabrera force themselves out of the equation for various reasons, leading to multiple bad KW moves/counter-moves. DeWayne Wise is only remembered by Greg775 and Mark Buehrle.

"Some can and some can't," Sale said of the transition. "I wouldn’t say that I can't, but this year it’s not in the cards. It’s something I’d like to get back to doing. Sounds pretty darned definitive that this is not just a temporary situation. Maybe he's been talking to his family and they suggested he do something before he suffered the same fate as Peavy.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 4, 2012 -> 11:21 PM) I don't think this is even worth responding to. But I want you to know that you are overreacting. No, not really. The exact same thing happened in 2011. Remember? Everyone was saying it's going to be hard to recover, it's going to be hard to recover...look at the 2006 Cardinals or the 2005 Astros, etc., etc. This isn't about the Indians being in first place. It's the fact that when we had a chance to get off to a good start and take first place by the horns, we completely whiffed. The Tigers played like crap for most of the first 4 months (except for Cabrera, Verlander and Valverde) and they won going away at the wire like Secretariat. 2-8 in the last 10 games isn't far from our 5-19 fall at approximately the same time and further irrelevancy. Our main advantage coming into this season compared to last was having Chris Sale in the rotation. Now that's gone. The one thing that has stayed the same is that Matt Thornton doesn't miss bats when he throws only straight 95-96 MPH fastballs in bad locations and behind in the count. 2009. 2010. 2011. 2012. There's a pattern that simply won't be broken with the same people in charge. It's not going to be enough to change the manager, clearly.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ May 4, 2012 -> 11:18 PM) Hey, Kenny got Jeff Marquez (the next Contreras), Wilson Betemit, Jon Gilmore, Tyler Flowers and Ozzie Martinez. what's your beef? Well, actually the next Jon Garland, but who cares anymore? The Astros have the youngest team in the majors, so at least they have a clear direction. Other than Wandy Rodriguez and Carlos Lee, they've cleared almost every single veteran from that roster, the expensive ones at least. What about the Sox? We have Thornton, AJ, Peavy, Rios, Crain, Ohman, Konerko, Dunn, Ramirez, etc. We're in no-man's land right now, neither young nor old, but not enough talent.

QUOTE (Baron @ May 4, 2012 -> 09:41 PM) I would not say that the Astros have a better plan. Obviously we are very early in the Luhnow era. He was brought in here primarily to beef of the farm system and he hasn't had any significant opportunities to do that yet. He's only made two significant trades so far and the clock hasn't even started on those yet. So, let me go with what I do know. Luhnow seems to have a keener understanding of his own players' value than either Ed Wade or Tim Purpura. Of course, that is like saying you are the valedictorian at summer school. In particular, he took three players when their value was highest and spun them into four young players that can either help now or down the road. Mark Melancon was an okay closer, but he profiled as more of a setup man/middle reliever. Those are a dime a dozen. He parlayed that into a starting shortstop and potential member of the rotation. Now, whether Lowrie or Weiland work out is anyone's best guess and you can haggle over whether they themselves are good players, but the fact is that he recognized that Melancon was not going to be anymore valuable. Fastforward to yesterday's deal and I come away very impressed. If his second player is rated as highly as the first then he got two of the Royals top twenty prospects (regarded as the deepest system in baseball by some) in exchange for two players that might be slightly above replacement level. Humberto Quintero has 2.2 career wins above replacement and has never had as many as 1.0 in any season. In four big league seasons, Bourgeois had 1.6 WAR (1.2 last season). The likelihood of him producing more than one win at any point in the future is pretty slim. Both are solid role players that would help any team, but they are hardly the kind of players that would bring in any significant return. Yet, there was Luhnow pounding on the Royals desperation for a catcher. Picking up Landon Powell last week aides in that ability. So, if the PTBNL is a top twenty prospect in their system, he will have gotten a significantly better package for two players that should not be regulars anywhere than Wade got for Jeff Keppinger last season. Funny, but the Keppinger trade looks like a fleecing when compared to the package Kenny Williams got for Carlos Quentin and the player he got for Sergio Santos (plus the Melancon deal was also better than that). So, will these trades work out? Who knows, but at least we got a guy that recognizes the value of his own players and when they are at their peak. http://evilwontwin.yuku.com/topic/17792/Lu...esses-Me-So-Far Luhnow has a dual degree in business and engineering from the University of Pennsylvania and an MBA from Northwestern University. Kenny Williams in his own mind acts like a Stanford grad, but Tiger Woods and Jerry Yang actually spent a lot more time there. I'll trust the rocket scientist at this point. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/...in-lazy-sexism/ (this is pretty funny, too bad Cowley wasn't involved)

Why did we draft Addison Reed again? The new 2 year old member of MENSA could do a better job with the "big board" these days, instead of just throwing random darts at the wall.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ May 4, 2012 -> 10:50 PM) The Kenny Williams Jr. line is .190. You think it's bad looking at the box score, imagine witnessing it in person. I wanted a rebate on my tickets last year for having to endure his awfulness. He has a curved spine too, seriously. It's curved forward at the top. Maybe it happened because his brain/ego was too big...? Have to check for the same mutation with the Guillen kids.

Trout at .190, Pujols at .196. Ouch. 510 OPS for Pujols currently. This one's going to get 5X the attention of Adam Dunn. I just hope for the sake of baseball that it doesn't come out that his success was PED's related, that would be a hard one to get over for the sport when THE best player of the last decade+ completely falls off the map.

Where's Milkman to start sparking the debate about cheering for the Sox to lose again...? Attendance won't get much worse. Terrible/atrocious results on the field can only result in KW getting fired or resigning, so pretty much the same situation as last year with Guillen, this year no cover and no fall guy for Reinsdorf to fall back on or rely upon.

QUOTE (Baron @ May 4, 2012 -> 09:34 PM) Well thank you for another fire Kenny thread. We sure needed more of those. The only difference is that I have defended him the whole offseason until today. We've become the most irrelevant team in the major leagues under KW's watch. You can argue the Padres or the Astros, but both those teams seem to have better plans and new/exciting/innovative GM's in place that will stop trying to pound round pegs into square holes.

The sooner we part ways with Kenny Williams, the better off we are for the future. This latest debacle with Chris Sale was foreseeable a mile away. You would think he might have learned with Santos? Traded him for what looks like the equivalent of another Nick Blackburn in Molina who will at best be a 4th or 5th starter. So he's going to turn Sale into another Santos then trade him away, too, but only after he signs a long-term extension, so everyone can wonder what the hell is going on in Chicago? For the future, they'd actually be better off just giving Sale a pre-emptive TJ surgery before he ruptures the elbow at some point in the indeterminate future and then have to wait another year more until he can start again. Of course, you can't force Chris to do that against his will. They've taken an A ball pitcher from a year ago who just started to build and gain in confidence, named him the closer because they apparently didn't have enough depth in Thornton and Ohman (and because they didn't want to or couldn't pay Frasor) and messed him up. Santiago should be starting at Birmingham or Charlotte, doesn't matter where. He's not a reliever going forward, especially with Sale now doomed to the pen. Put Sale into Thornton's role and make Reed the closer. Trade Thornton to the highest bidder. Rinse, repeat, do the same thing with Jesse Crain when he comes back and proves himself and gets his FB back to 93-96. So they've already moved around or messed up Beckham (2 changes), Viciedo (3-4 changes), Santiago and Chris Sale. Who's next? All because our GM left us dangerously lacking in depth at the major league level by making idiotic trades like the Mark Teahen move, then signing him to an extension, then having to trade away our best pitcher last year at the break because Williams just wanted to dump his mistake from the roster. Other than DeAza, Humber and Santos (and the jury's still out because at least 50% of us believe Molina will end up another Zach Stewart and Marco Paddy another Dave Wilder minus the bribes and gay night clubs), absolutely nothing KW has done has worked out. At a certain point, it's not just bad luck (Peavy/Dunn/Rios), it's bad decision-making, planning and strategic thinking. This is the biggest crisis for the White Sox since the White Flag, signing Albert Belle and going with "The Kids Can Play" campaign. This offseason, the whole future of this organization was tied into the performances of Sale, Morel, Viciedo, Beckham and Molina. Even with Dunn, Rios and Peavy contributing, there's still way too many holes if you remove Sale from the rotation and that's also assuming Beckham and Viciedo hit. It's gotten to the point the last week or so with Danks showing diminished velocity (hope and pray it's a "dead arm" and not something else) and Alexei Ramirez an OPS in the 400's...you just start to wonder what else can go wrong with this organization? There are some glimmers of hope in Phegley, Mitchell, Saladino, Thompson, Castro...but we need some minor miracles now to contend in 2014. 1) Good trades (crosses fingers, hopefully no other GM could be THIS bad) 2) Reed and/or Jones to become a lockdown closer 3) Santiago/Castro/Molina/Axelrod/Hernandez (2 of them) to become competent big leaguers 4) Viciedo/Beckham/Morel and Flowers/Phegley (one or the other) to make it P.S. Zach Stewart sucks, thanks for nothing Marco Paddy!

Do say. Try it sometime, M. You can learn more about the Sox from the other team's broadcasters. For example tonight, according to all the Detroit hitters, the baseballs are darkest/dirtiest in Chicago compared to all the other MLB parks. Coincidence? No more than the position of the batter's box being off by one foot. That tells me that Cooper has more influence than even I thought...to give the Sox pitchers an added advantage, it's also had a negative effect on our hitters at home over the last 3 seasons.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 09:09 PM) Wow buddy, you went from overly optimistic a week ago to this rant. Very bleak day for the organization, no doubt about it. Hopefully Beckham continues to play well and gives us a reason to watch. This whole thing with Sale is what has done it. Sure, theoretically we could catch lightning in a bottle with Santiago in the rotation and he becomes a top of the rotation starter. Between this whole mismanaged/terribly botched situation with Sale and Molina just not impressing me overall with his stuff...it's just scary to contemplate the future right now.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 4, 2012 -> 09:05 PM) Is AJ too important in the development of the pitching staff to do that? We just need to completely start over, which might mean trading both AJ AND Paulie. Might as well see what you have with Phegley and Flowers this year. Otherwise, you're going to have to trade an asset already on the major league roster to bring in a starting catcher, like an Alexei Ramirez. Which will create another huge hole somewhere else on the field.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 09:02 PM) It should be happening regardless of how next 10 games go. As I've been arguing, you have to make Santiago a starter, right now, with Charlotte. Axelrod can get his audition, but without Sale and Molina looking iffy for the rotation (nobody at this site can argue credibly he's looked like anything more than a back of the rotation guy), we're back to 1998/99 all over again. Attendance in the 1998-99 figures. At this point, Kenny Williams just needs to leave and wipe the slate clean. This is a 3 year fix, at best, without Sale. It's almost to the point where they'd be better off doing the Tommy John surgery today before he even blows his elbow out and bringing him back as a starter again in 2013. What's the difference? We're going to do the same thing with Sale we did with Santos and trade him for a back of the rotation guy with control who throws about the same velocity as Phil Humber?

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ May 4, 2012 -> 09:00 PM) That's at least three games the bullpen has blown in the last inning. Might be four. quit counting. 3, Baltimore at home, at Oak, at DET It really doesn't matter really, we don't have a chance to be competitive anyway without Sale in the starting rotation.

Now the only question is whether 2-8 becomes 5-19 and the full rebuilding/trade all assets talk begins again. Can't imagine things being much worse this year, but without a closer, just like what happened in early 2011, the whole season can come undone quite quickly. The Marlins are learning the same lesson with Heath Bell, only they're giving him $27 million to learn it the hard way.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:56 PM) LOL. Fathom right. Me wrong. Let the floogate of losses begin. Here they come! Wow. Sox lose a game the Sox had in control most of the way. Poor Jake; poor Sox. I wouldn't say control most of the way, but it's a game they should have won had the bullpen been managed properly. Left Peavy in one hitter too long when they should have used Reed, and Thornton's just not a closer.

And that's officially the start of the rebuilding phase for the White Sox.

Didn't realize that Peralta had 4 seasons in a row of 20 homers and at least 80 RBI's. He's a statue defensively, but that's great production at SS. And Matt Thornton leads the majors again in broken bats, flares, balls off the end of the bat, checked swing singles....I don't know what it is, he has that fastball but a lot of times the opposition can make contact.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:48 PM) Hawk having a rough night in the booth. He was cheering too hard for a Beckham single or triple there, lol? Great play by someone Thornton's size, very athletic to run down Santiago.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:47 PM) What time is it where u live caufield? 948 am on Sunday, 13 hours of difference

Amazing thing is I think that ties Lillibridge for 1st (Desmond Jennings) for the AL SB lead despite barely playing. Quietly, the Rays again are the best team in baseball...without Longoria. 30 K's for Morel (new thread for M-34 if we somehow lose this game).

BTW, is there any team in the majors with a worse bench than ours? Other than Lillibridge's versatility and pinch-running, not much there. Beckham will get another AB here unless Morel hits into a DP. Yay, we now have one bench hitter over .200 finally.