caulfield12

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:35 PM) Kenny's rebuilding is going to be the following. Attaching tradable chips to boat anchors hoping someone takes them. Asking ridiculous returns for players. Then saying f*** it. Lets go for it. ALL IN 2.0 Wonder how much of this is coming from the marketing/ticket sales side of things? One would hope the renewed optimism on the Northside isn't the cause.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:34 PM) I'm the only one to see Thornton being the first one moved? Hmm. I kind of think that Kenny might move Thornton and then decide not to rebuild. Buehrle, Pierre, and Thornton might be the only subtractions. And Santos, Pena, Vizquel, Castro, Edwin Jackson, Teahen, etc. That's turning around 35-40% of the roster in the span of 6 months.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) Simply because most people with jobs dont have the time to watch minor league players and actually rate them, so there is very little way to know if he actually has a clue. When it comes to things that a normal person can actually watch and compare, Keith Law really is not beuno. He's worth about as much as a combinacion platter at TACO BUENO.

Does Cowley really live with his mom still? He seems like the type.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) There was a rule that if a player with 6+ years of service time was traded with 2+ years left on a contract, the player had a right to demand a trade to another team after a year. It's how the Sox ended up with Javy Vazquez. IF that rule is still in the new CBA, it pretty much guarantees that no team is going to be trading for Danks because there's too much risk that he forces his way out in a year. Then there's no way JR signed off on that deal...it's too much of a financial risk. There has to be some type of out with the new CBA to make trading such contracts more flexible.

The next question is whether any season tickets will be sold as a result of this? We can definitely assume losing Buehrle, Ozzie and the 2011 season being what amounts to a complete debacle has cost roughly 20+% of the season ticket base (Rios/Peavy/Dunn/Beckham flops, etc.). Anyone with inside knowledge in the marketing/F.O. about where things stand with renewals and any new season ticket packages being sold?

QUOTE (heirdog @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:25 PM) Santos was just a tick below Jenks...just like Massett we'll learn later that means an annoying biting bug that lives in Jenks' nether regions and not his stuff... Danks is much more proven and deal could be considered slightly below market so whether he pitches only 2 years of it or more, I'm good with it. Except he does have one of the best sliders in the game...Masset had a fairly pedestrian, quite overhyped fastball and overall arsenal. Heck, Jon Adkins came to the Sox with a 7 or 8 ERA in AAA and they got away with hyping his stuff like he was going to be the next Cy Young winner, along with Felix Diaz and Jeff Marquez morphing into Greg Maddux/Matt Guerrier.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 09:18 PM) For the Sox of course Didn't we just say that 2 months ago when we signed Sergio Santos? Maybe have become too cynical to believe John Danks will actually finish that contract in a Sox jersey.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 09:14 PM) Incredible value on the deal. Love it. Incredible value for the White Sox or another team? That's the question.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 09:14 PM) Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a rule about signing a player and then immediately trading him? Anyway, I would have never believed Quentin would be on the roster at Christmas, so I'll say he's the next move. It didn't take them long to move Santos after he signed that "team-friendly" extension. With Danks, I'm sure the actuality of the contract will be much more convoluted...not sure when we'll find out the exact terms and conditions.

Determining the direction of the White Sox is like following the old-fashioned weather vane on top of the Kansas farm house in the middle of the movie "Twister." I left out another one....actually announces two signings tomorrow, the other with Cespedes signing for $55 million (although supposedly this won't happen at the earliest until January).

Crazy KENNY strikes again. Joe Cowley might want to rethink that last article he wrote...makes him look like a total ass, if he didn't already. Seems 2011 cost Danks about $10 million...over the last couple of years, we all speculated 5 years and $75 million. It also makes Stewart to the pen 10X more likely...unless we now turn around and trade Gavin Floyd. So who do we trade next? Floyd? Crain, Frasor or Thornton? Quentin? Marty's still pulling for Alexei Ramirez...one would imagine. Danks Floyd* Peavy Sale Humber Reed Thornton* Crain Frasor Ohman Santiago/Stewart/Axelrod/Leesman It also means that instead of Daniel Hudson, KW traded for the last pitcher in our bullpen...but you would have to bet that KW would want to utilize Stewart as a reliever and save money by dealing either Frasor or Crain. The Frasor re-signing still doesn't make much sense...unless he was planning to deal Crain (knowing he could get something useful back for him, compared to Frasor), but not wanting to rely 100% on Reed/Stewart/Ohman/rookie-waiver wire in the bullpen.

Well, the interesting thing here will be the NTC and what teams are on the list...and for how long we're locked into keeping him in Chicago. Gut instinct says that JR and KW don't want Danks around at Buehrle money long-term, and that he would end up getting traded ala Santos...and that this is only leverage to use in our favor. Now the the dollar signs are clearer...what is he actually worth to other teams at that $65 million mark? Danks is viewed by most teams as a #3 and possibly a #2 in the NL, but does that get you a Latos deal or anything resembling Olivo/J. Reed/Morse from another team? We keep making comparisons with Latos and Gio, guess we'll find out sooner rather than later what he's actually worth to other teams. My preference would still be to deal him for pitching depth (better versions of Molina/Stewart), a true leadoff hitter who plays CF (High A/AA) who's a year or two away that could replace Rios (as early as we can possibly dump him)...and assuming that player isn't Mitchell or Walker....and another high impact bat (1B/DH/LF) in the lower minors to eventually replace Konerko.

It COULD happen, because of the presence of Viciedo and Alexei...as well as Contreras and El Duque in the recent past. But likely? 5-10%. Unless we're trying to make another splash...just don't see JR committing those dollars to an unproven talent. Maybe our 2 Cubans can convince the front office how much he's actually worth in their eyes.

The problem is, if we trade Danks now and don't get what back what we want....what's the point? We won't plug that $7-8 million back into payroll. It won't go into the draft or signing another player, in all likelihood. It won't even be a prospect who's better than Molina, arguably. I'm all for rebuilding, but we can't do it very effectively with the team as it is currently comprised. We have at least a 50/50 shot at competing with the roster "as is" under a new manager and philosophy. Why not just see how things play out and take it from there? We'll definitely have a losing season without Danks and/or Floyd out of the rotation. It's possible, with the way bullpens fluctate, that we can survive the loss of Santos/Sale (LH set-up)/Thornton/Quentin. Peavy's healthy, Floyd/Danks pitch like they're capable of, Sale looks dominant, we get a 4.25-4.75 ERA out of Humber and our fifth starter doesn't kill us, then we're in business...there are lots of what if's, sure, but Detroit is the only team that looks to be very solid, and they still have some pen issues. They're relying on a rookie 5th in Jacob Turner, although you could call that a wash with us going with Chris Sale in the rotation.

The risk is that we might actually be able to compete....with the team, as is. We can survive Santos being gone, but probably not losing Sale/Thornton in the pen and one of our starters. We can also survive the loss of Quentin, probably....if at least 2 of Rios/Dunn/Beckham have All-Star caliber seasons and Viciedo hits as expected.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 06:25 AM) High school players who turned out really good right from the beginning: Kershaw, McCutthen, Kemp, Hosmer, Cahill, Fielder, Wright, Sizemore, Pujols, and the list goes on. Some of are better picks with upside the last couple years were high school players: Thompson, Heindenreich, Holmberg, Ravelo. The problem is their weren't many. I'm tired of drafting relievers using a high draft picks: McMilllen, O'Neil, Soptic, Bellamy, Jones. Kenny/Laumaun need to be more open minded and stop mostly focusing on drafting college players with not much upside to them at the Ages of 23-24 who won't be called up until they are 25-26 years and then struggle for the first year or two when arriving to the majors: Everyone missed on Pujols when he was at Fort Osage high school in KC with greg775. Especially the Royals, he was in their backyard. Although I'm almost positive he had at least one year of junior college. Hosmer and Moustakas, those guys were consensus top 5-10 picks. When have we ever drafted that high? Kemp and McCutcheon definitely have (had) some ups and down as well. Hosmer wasn't dominating for a 1B, he was "good" but AL average.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 11:37 PM) Viciedo will be great on this team as a part time DH/4th OF. I am all about pitching and defense. Not in USCF. Remember, the Mariners already tried this model and it failed miserably because of the lack of offense. Viciedo, without Quentin in the line-up and with Konerko due for a down season, simply has to be in the everyday line-up. The MAIN reason we failed this year was offense...with the exception of Pierre (who was supposed to give us at least decent defense).

Would have to guess they're going to wait and see how things play out with Viciedo and Aroldis Chapman before they invest $30+ million in another Latin American player. We really don't need another outfielder right now, unless he's a pure centerfielder and true leadoff hitter. And those guys have been elusive for CF ever since he became the GM.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 09:00 PM) Not quite. That's not my "interpolation". The Sox need to spend money on the draft immediately if they are committed to rebuild. We cannot wait till the bulky contracts coming off the book then spend on the draft. What I am trying point out is that with Peavy, Dunn and Rios contract in the book, we won't have the ammo to sign key players to rebuild. And we most likely won't rebuild through free agency, unless we get rid of one of those contracts, which would be a long shot. We cannot afford to wait for these contracts to come off the book then rebuild the team. With the trading chips we have now, especially after the new CBA, we won't get many, if any, top tier prospects in return. If we are really committed to rebuild, we need to spend money internationally and through the draft. Thanks to the new CBA, we have to. How much? We don't know. If we fill the roster with mostly guys in house, and not make any significant free agent signings, we can allocate an extra $4-6 mil on the draft. Which would be tremendous. That's the ideal goal, but like some mentioned, unlikely. You mentioned HS kids like Thompson are hit or miss. But isn't that true for ALL prospects? We didn't have much success with some of the "safer" picks we have had. There are teams like the Rays who continually have success in developing HS kids, like Moore, Jennings, Hellickson, etc. It's not entirely impossible. But that's besides the point. I am not advocating in drafting more HS players, but I think we need to increase spending on the draft and international signing in order to rebuild the big league team and our farm system. Well, we know all the issues with the Dominican. The lack of results in Venezuela has beeen troubling, to say the least. And the "win now" mentality is what usually has us drafting collegiate players who can contribute more immediately, like Sale and Beckham. Maybe the other problem is the poor results we've had in the past when taking young high school pitchers like Jason Stumm and Kris Honel in the first round. Other than that, you have Ramirez/Viciedo/Iguchi/Takatsu. And the other downside is with high school players, they're peaking between 26-30, so most guys like Harper, for example, their most productive years will be during that late 20's period with another team. You have to put up with all the growing pains at the big league level...think Delmon Young, for one example. Very few high school players end up dominating from the beginning like an A-Rod or Ken Griffey, Jr.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 07:38 AM) $51.7 million is the posting fee. Stupid, stupid money. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AplT...gers_fit_122011 Mr. Passan disagrees.

I looks forward to teams paying 50-60 Mil, from a 32-33 year old outfielder who has to start out in A ball, and at his best is an .850 OPS Player. Sounds like the right move from them Orioles, Laughing at this random comment in the Cespedes thread at MLBtraderumors. A 50 inch vertical tops Jordan by an inch or so.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) How many guys that they overlook/let go actually succeed at the major league level? Not many. Michael Morse was basically a throw-in with the Garcia deal since at the time he didn't have one strong defensive position, the ability to stay at SS or the power to play 3B/LF. And it took him 5+ years to have a real MLB impact.

It's karmic retribution for the botched Sirotka/David Wells move, lol. As far as the Edwin Jackson deal goes, it all is now on Zach Stewart's shoulders. We're not going to get Daniel Hudson Lite, but a serviceable 4/5-ish back of the rotation type of guy is critical from a future payroll standpoint.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 06:20 PM) Well how about actually doing something in the international signing period besides watching other teams invest in it. What will we spend. The minimum required to field a draft. They will throw a decent slot offer to the 1st rounder. After that its slim pickings. Don't think about high school guys. More Jared Mitchell clones. Don't forget Mr. Walker. It is amusing that the guys like Doyle and Kuhn who actually succeed are always overlooked...by scouts/talent evaluators/front office personnel.