caulfield12

Good thing you are not a Cardinals fan, then....can't imagine what you would be saying about Pujols. At least Albert HAD the option to come back for something like $40-50 million less in total dollars, and he was offered more by the Marlins. Mark never was offered by the Cardinals or the White Sox, to our knowledge. As far as grading the Winter Meetings, it's way too early. Most of baseball has been waiting on Pujols and Wilson. Fielder's still out there....I just read an article praising Boras for not striking too quickly, so the same thing has to be true about holding onto Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Thornton and potentially AJ/Ramirez/Konerko. There are 7 teams out there (at least) still looking for a 1B. I would actually rather they traded Konerko and stuck Dunn/Viciedo/Quentin at 1B and let DeAza play everyday. Now that Buehrle's gone, they aren't so much better off waiting for Konerko to recede back to norm/mean. They could actually get something decent back in return and clear more contract space for 2012/2013. Frasor was all about KW's ego and having to prove the value of that Jackson deal. But with Sale, Santos and probably Thornton gone, they thought he was needed for additional depth. In reality, the pen will probably be Reed/Crain/Frasor/Ohman/Santiago/Molina or Stewart. The only expensive pitchers in that pen are Crain and Frasor, the two veterans. Ohman's 'meh' as far as contract dollars, sure, a bit of an overpay, but he's going to have to earn his money this year. But there's just no way to possibly grade KW at all until we see what our final roster is heading into April. That's 4-7 players who could all be traded, which is obviously a significant portion of the payroll going forward.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 09:39 AM) The Bulls won 6 championships with Jerry Krause as the GM. At some point it becomes obvious that people lose their touch. No one came knocking at Krause's door to build them a winner. I doubt any team wants a guy who has a $127 million payroll in the AL Central and finishes 3rd. Now you want to trust KW to rebuild your team. Lets look at the first round picks since Kenny has been calling the shots: SEASON PLAYER POS SCHOOL/HOMETOWN PICK 2010 Chris Sale LHP Florida Gulf Coast University 13 2009 Jared Mitchell OF LSU 23 2008 Gordon Beckham SS Univ. of Georgia 8 2007 Aaron Poreda LHP San Francisco 25 2006 Kyle McCulloch RHP Texas 29 2005 Lance Broadway RHP TCU 15 2004 Josh Fields 3B Oklahoma State 18 2003 Brian Anderson OF U. of Arizona 15 2002 Roger Ring LHP San Diego State 18 2001 Kris Honel RHP Providence HS, New Lenox 16 You really think it would be a 2-3 year process with this bozo? He needs to go, pronto. Say thanks for 2005, but we actually want to win, not come up with excuses and catch phrases like "Chicago tough". How JR can't see through all his BS, especially his Ventura story, and make no mistake, I actually don't mind his hiring, but the whole BS about interviewing for a managerial position while he was playing, is beyond me. Trying to make himself actually be what most erroneously think he is, a Stanford educated intellectual who happens to have a background in baseball is more BS. The reality was he was there on a football scholarship and lasted one semester. He's a phony. If JR was only going to get of one, he did the right thing and launced Ozzie. Ozzie would have been a huge problem if he won out over his boss. But he really needed to get rid of both. The first clear sign that the rebuild is going wrong, I think KW will finally be moved upstairs. He was owed the chance to at least try to fix his own mess without Ozzie around to sabotage things. Everyone knows the history of first round draft picks, and our barren minor league system. Just a year ago, Beckham looked like a future All-Star, and Sale a future rotation fixture, if not Randy Johnson Lite. Mitchell was doing great the year he was drafted....unfortunately, that ankle injury set him back 1 1/2 years. There's nothing KW could have done to prevent that one. It's not like everything he's done has been horrible recently. They got more than anyone in the majors could get out of both Humber and Santos. Have nurtured Dayan Viciedo along quite nicely. Selected a future closer in Addison Reed. Picked up DeAza for nothing. Morel showed lots of promise the final six weeks of the season, if only he can continue to build on that. Tyler Flowers finally showed some signs, Lillibridge even moreso. We're we saying the same kinds of things about KW after 2001, before 2005, after 2007 and again now? One way or the other, we have to live with JR's decision, so I've decided it's easier to think optimistically rather than just be upset about the last 3 seasons. The NBA is all about superstars, and everyone knew that Jordan and Pippen were 60% of the reason for the Bulls' success. That's so hard to replicate in baseball or the NFL.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 07:58 AM) I think to have a pitcher of Buehrle's calibur, one where it was reported there were 14 teams on him, to NEVER even make him an offer looks bad. Not before he became a free agent, not at the end of the process when from what he said and I was watching, he wasn't looking for a match. Buehrle signed a 4 year $58 million contract and he called it a sad day. What's even sadder is where the White Sox apparently are at right now, and the people most responsible for that are still making the decisions. I can't fathom why anyone would be optimistic with a rebuild with KW at the helm. Because we won our only World Series in most of our lifetimes with him as the GM, Rick Hahn's still around and we've added some experienced guys in scouting and development. I get it....the last 3 years have been brutal and it's easier to look at the glass as half empty rather than half full, but we've been fooled before when we had high expectations (2001/2006/2009/2011) and we've excelled when we were the underdogs and nothing was expected out of us.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Amn6...s_losers_120811 Winter Meetings Winners and Losers

QUOTE (pktmotion @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 11:49 PM) I posted this trade a few days ago in a different thread: "Floyd and Thornton + $2M for Jarrod Parker, Adam Eaton, and Ryan Wheeler." I hope this means the A's are holding onto Gio. Why would we possibly want Adam Eaton?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 10:09 PM) Promotions for the thousands of college students that live within 15 minutes of the Cell couldn't hurt. Something like $5 tickets with a college I.d. It wont generate a whole lot of money, but it never hurts to try to generate some buzz among young people. It'll expose new people to the Cell and hopefully expand the fanbase. A lot of those kids become permanent transplants. Converting them could happen. Hopefully the positive experience at the ballpark will outweigh the product on the field.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 23, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...rticle_26024804 See Buehrle, Mark. Bradford, Chad. Fogg, Josh. Even Matt Guerrier.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:16 PM) Rebuilding teams do not need a 6 mil aging catchers! Is it $6 or $6.5 million? One of those two.

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 09:33 PM) hey 2012 is an election year.. why not get the worlds most prominent Sox fan, come to the ballpark? I know Illinois isnt a swing state, but hey what's a 4-5 hour diversion from Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan or Missouri for a night at home with the Sox. It would have to be tied into a non-profit program (through the First Lady's office) and Sox Charities. That I think most Sox fans would support (making it less clearly political)...some type of special charity game where XXX percentage amount of the tickets sold was split between Sox Charities and one selected by the First Lady, with both of them in attendance. Or maybe they could have him participate in a charity softball/basketball (tie it in with the Bulls or Bulls/Sox Academy and bring in kids from underperforming schools to hear him speak to them privately) game inside or around the park. Probably not time for such an event during an election year, but why not try? They're going to have to think outside the box to draw fans the next couple of seasons.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 08:01 PM) So the As get Jarrod Parker and Collin Cowgill (plus Ryan Cook) for Trevor Cahill and Craig Breslow. Cowgill and Parker would have been nice pieces for us to get for Danks. But I guess that wasn't possible. Cahill will be under team control through 2015 at $30+ million dollars. A LOT different situation from having Danks for only one year and then losing him to free agency. And Breslow was available to everyone in baseball numerous times. Obviously, there's much more of a premium on a starting pitcher than a reliever. This trade once again reinforces that fact. This would be closer to what we could get for Alexei Ramirez on the open market, though.

Maybe Verlander like numbers, but all the scouting reports have him at 89-93 and the HIGHEST at 96. That's basically the same repertoire Zach Stewart has...so we'll just have to wait and see what he actually shows us. Of course, it all depends on movement and location (as we quickly learned with Billy Koch or Jenks in his later years)...mixing in the offspeed stuff with a 10+ MPH variation on at least one of his secondary pitches. The most interesting number is always how many times he throws a pitch and the batter swings and misses the ball entirely. That's stuff, at least to me. No matter how hard Zumaya or Aroldis Chapman throw, Paul Konerko will eventually get to their fastballs if you keep chunking them up there.

They made a movie, that was all fine and good. He still has many fans from all around the world, but what's the connection to the White Sox? That he's from Gary, Indiana? Imagine having a Joe Paterno Night, for example, at USCF. That's essentially what you're saying with your Michael Jackson Night idea. Why would you do a promotion that will offend at LEAST 50% of your target audience, if not more? The White Sox have lost MOST of their African-American fans (at least those who go to the ballpark on a consistent basis) over the last 20-30 years, as has all of baseball, for that matter. If you were a black person, would having a Michael Jackson Night seem in good taste? Fine, have a Janet Jackson Night and have her do a concert after the game (or Jackson 5 reunion event/concert)...that would be okay, to do more concerts and events to draw fans to the ballpark.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 08:26 PM) So my question is ... how many blown saves in a season is acceptable? Didn't Detroit go all year without a blown save? If we go through 2-3 closers, my estimation is we will blow up to nine saves. That means our team is going to suck again. Now if we write it off saying, 'We're rebuilding. It's OK if our closing situation sucks," fine. But "what if" several of our s***ty hitters (of last season) rebound as we are all hoping and the team has a decent offense?? Then the closing situation will cost the team dearly, if you assume Detroit (OR SOMEBODY) in the division could have a closer with 1-2 blown saves ALL SEASON. p.s. I just saw your Reed post. Are we to assume he will only blow 1-3 saves? Just asking. That first six weeks of the season with Pierre/Thornton failing absolutely killed any momentum this season. (And Dunn's surgery, I guess). By and large, a closer should have an 85% conversion rate or higher to be considered good. Until the last two DET blown losses, he was in that range or above. The problem with Sergio is that when he was bad, he completely imploded. Jenks would have quite a few games where he would blow the save but the game would still be tied and we'd go on in extra innings or the bottom of the 9th to win. With Sergio, it was pretty much all or nothing....dominant stuff or a complete implosion.

Maybe the Molina deal will turn out to be a win in the future, but we certainly didn't WIN anything this week. I would doubt they sold a single new customer any type of season ticket package based on the results of these 4-5 days. On the other hand, losing Santos and especially Buehrle is going to cost them 5-10% of their season ticket renewals, if not more. Suppose you could argue they cleared future payroll space by signing Santos to a "friendly" deal that they seemingly thought would go bad in the future. At some point, it would be nice if KW was actually right on a trade instead of on the wrong side of the ledger over and over again.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnS4..._marlins_120811 Can't believe that the Marlins were willing to offer $275 million for Pujols. Crazy. Maybe Albert doesn't like Mr. Guillen so much (or he values more stable clubhouse environments), because supposedly the Cards were offering $210 and he got an extra $44 million for his charity to go to LA. But still left another $21 million on the table.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 06:46 PM) The Sox are in this no man's land in part because they made decisions with their heart. Long past time to get back to being the heartless bunch I loved. Sentiment is for Chicago's other team. The decisions they made with their heart were to keep Buehrle the first time and Konerko the last two times he could have left. If they had heart, they would have kept Thome around in 2010 instead of ceding to Ozzie's ego. Of all the other bad contracts, Contreras after the 2005/2006 seasons was the only one that was made more with heart than a realistic prediction of what he would accomplish going forward in the future. Maybe Ozzie THOUGHT Juan Pierre's "heart" was enough to justify his presence in the leadoff role these last few years, but that was a dubious decision as well. And questioning Hudson's heart, that was idiotic. If anything, they think too much with their brains (Rios must turn it around, Dunn will be great, Peavy has a Cy Young) and not enough about what's inside of a player. And they failed miserably in getting through to Beckham. (I'll admit Peavy at least SEEMS to have a heart at all times, Dunn and Rios, who knows...) And, if you think about it, Jermaine Dye had as much heart and pride as any player on the Sox...the way they dumped him unceremoniously for an underachieving Rios in 2009 was bad as well. As you have questioned often Marty, they've never really gotten through to Alexei Ramirez on a consistent basis, either.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 09:59 AM) Unless the Marlins have signed Fielder when I wasn't looking, they're still no offensive juggernaut. Ramirez, Reyes, Stanton and Logan Morrison alone have the potential to be more dangerous than our entire 1-9 offense if Konerko fades at the end of his contract and Beckham/Dunn/Rios continue to flail away like Don Quixote. Pair that with their pitching and they'll be very dangerous. Assuming that Ozzie can neutralize the threat of Ramirez blowing up the team chemistry single-handedly.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 09:01 AM) Thanks to you and many for the kind words. I've had flurries of posting on the various Sox boards for many, many years. Just not sustainable for me. I know myself and I've learned to use these sources primarily for the info/rumor fix. I've long enjoyed THIS board most of all because of the quality of the baseball thought AND the writing/humor. As to your points Hi, I agree somewhat that 2011 became almost the perfect storm of individually and even epically poor performances by historically predictable players which dashed some high hopes virtually from the season's outset. You'll never hear me bashing KW or any GM for a well-considered trade or move which turns out to be horrendous (in hindsight) because of later factors that few if any could have reasonably predicted. Adam Dunn's 2011 was pathetic beyond belief, especially coming from a seemingly healthy ballplayer whose back of the baseball card showed almost eerie year-to-year consistency. Many saw SOME warning signs that he might decline a bit (the whole "never DH'd before thing was a personal concern"), and I personally HATE that style of all-or-nothing slugger, but if you opted to have that style of player in your lineup, then Dunn SEEMED as safe and predictable a bet as any signing in the history of free agents. Turned out a bit differently, but you can't convince me that ANY GM in baseball could have guessed THAT. But here's the thing, yeah, everything that could go wrong did go wrong, horribly wrong, but I NEVER saw that team as constructed as some juggernaut big-payroll team. Rather, I saw it as a flawed team that COULD do some real damage if everything went right, but it was a big payroll team because of many poor past decisions and the need to spend money to band-aid the product. Don't want to write a novel here (although sure I will), but I definitely saw it as a masquerade -- "look what we're giving you -- a high payroll," when in fact any analysis at all saw a lot of overpaid players whose declining (or overrated) skillsets made for a poorly constructed TEAM. Some examples: *Juan Pierre -- Don't get me started. He CAN do some things, but the guy hasn't been a high quality and EVERYDAY leadoff hitter for years. Yet, infuriatingly, stubborn Ozzie trotted the guy out there every damned day, resting the other starters (but you'd always see Pierre), so like Jaime Navarro years ago as a starter, he wasn't only (relatively) awful, he was durable in being awful. Yuck to the max. An A.L. leadoff guy with no power, tremendously overrated stolen base ability (at this point in his career), and horrendous outfield tools (other than pure ability to get to a ball) was simply a big, big problem (exacerbated by a manager who saw things in him that virtually no one else did). *Dunn -- talked about him above, but not only don't I like his style for this team (all of our former sluggers had been hitters with power, rather than sluggers -- e.g., Dick Allen, the Big Skirt, Maggs, modern-day Konerko, and even TCQ), Dunn and his $$$ should never have been necessary had KW not botched the whole Gentleman Jim Thome thing (who on his worst day is twice the hitter that Dunn is). So the team has to then band-aid to get Dunn, we unexpectedly get epic fail out of a former slugging robot, but Ozzie again exacerbates things by not only batting Dunn third (even against lefties ... who in their right mind would EVER bat Adam Dunn third against anybody?), but doing it over and over again. I won't go so far as to say Ozzie threw games to make a point about Kenny's acquisitions, but stubborn Ozzie continually hurt the team the last few years by trying to prove that HE is the smartest guy in the room and going against basic statistics and other prevailing baseball opinion. *Rios -- All I can say about Rios is that the way he underperforms his tools is infuriating, embarrassing, and upsetting. So sure, we have a big payroll, but I could never think we had any sort of juggernaut when we have to rely on a guy like that as a major cog. In my opinion, Rios above all others is the one that KW should take the heat for. Again, we weren't ever a top team, we were just being told we had a top team. *Peavy -- Loved the aggressiveness of going out and getting an ace, but for an organization historically reluctant to take big chances on pitching, this was a head-scratcher to me (and yes, even at the time). Petco splits, already existing concerns about how his max-effort and somewhat unsound delivery would age, and how his style would generally translate to the stronger A.L. lineups made many people wonder whether THIS was the ace you really wanted to pay the long-term big-bucks for. Hey, allegedly part of the thinking for letting Hudson go for Jackson was scouting info that suggested Hudson and his style would never amount to "all that much" in the A.L. Debatable, but fine, that's a position. But you can't have it both ways. Because many said the exact same thing in the opposite direction about Peavy. N.L. Petco Peavy might have been worth X, but not the Peavy that we'd be getting (and his later injuries have absolutely nothing to do with my analysis). But all the player overrating aside, my real problem with EVER having any confidence in last year's product was the continuing dysfunction between our goofball manager and our swell-headed GM (and more broadly, our ownership that allowed all of this dysfunction to persist). Lots of examples out there about creative tensions between teammates that make the whole more than the sum of the parts, but 3-4 years of this nonsense already made it clear that THIS wasn't THAT. We had leadership at every level that was actually HURTING the overall team. That sabotaged the team from the start and made it as unlikeable a team, and product, as any Sox team I can remember (and 10-12 of my Sox fanatic friends felt exactly the same way). All that said, Ozzie leaving was necessary. And I can't imagine how ownership would possibly want the architect to supervise the fix. My hope is that some soul-searching may result in a changed approach (loved Kenny in his early years; very skeptical about change given the Santos deal, but maintaining some hope by seemingly being very patient about Danks, Floyd, Thornton, and Quentin). Hey, no team is perfect -- even the true juggernauts. I simply saw so many problems with this team from the get-go that I wasn't excited from 2011 Day 1 (hopeful, yes; but not excited) and the inability of management to stop the free-fall made it a simply gut-wrenching baseball year. Ultimately, that's where coaching and Guillen seemingly have failed the most....with Rios, Alexei Ramirez and Beckham, three seemingly talented guys with a world of potential who have simply massively underachieved (less so in Alexei's overall stats, but just from watching his performance defensively and hitting with RISP). Pitchers like Floyd, Danks and Thornton all plateaued in earlier seasons instead of building on their earlier success and establishing themselves as perennial All-Stars. Quentin could simply never stay healthy or continue to attack with the same approach on a consistent basis as he did in 2008. We bought high and sold low on Swisher, 2 huge mistakes. We bought high on Dunn and lost a first round draft pick. We made just as glaring a mistake to let Thome going and attempting to fill in that gap with Kotsay and Andruw Jones (the single biggest reason we lost to the Twins in 2010). We overpaid for Peavy when Clayton Richard could have been helpful to our roster. Then you have the Hudson/Jackson mess, buying way too high on Jackson and undervaluing Hudson going forward. Still, it's all those "smaller" contracts like Teahen, Pierre, Thornton (overpaid now for a set-up guy), Frasor, overpaying AJ for this coming year, Will Ohman, Vizquel that hurt just as much. If you have a mediocre farm system, you find replacements internally for most of those guys. It's just because the smaller contracts don't resonate quite like booing Dunn and Rios or being upset with the brittleness of Peavy and his bloated contract and buyout. Easier to point the finger at those 3 and Beckham, by far. About the ONLY things to feel good about this past year were Buehrle, Konerko, Morel's last six weeks, DeAza, NOT trading Viciedo, Phil Humber and Santos. Everything else basically SUCKED and I agree 100% that it was the worst season I can ever remember and much worse than 2009 or 2007. Even 2001 was a sort of fun season with Canseco and the team at least rallying back to .500 at mid-season despite the 14-29 start. This year was just dismal. I cared a lot more at the end of 2007 than this past season...just waiting for either Ozzie, KW or optimistically, both of them to be gone.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:09 AM) Those two are just about done with their rebuilding, the Royals more so than the Indians. I would say the Royals are done rebuilding entirely and simply have to sign a few starters. When has their rotation EVERY looked solid 1-5 going into a season? Not since the early 90's, the Kevin Appier/Jeff Montgomery years. Mostly the 70's and 80's, though.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:29 AM) If Danks and Floyd are both traded and the return(for whatever reason, if i were KW thatd be a must) doesnt include a ML ready SP do you think theyd give Molina or Axlerod the nod as 5th starter....Unless Paddy and KW are absolutely in love with Molina I think he needs at least a little bit of time in the minors. With KW, he's always eager to throw all of his acquisitions into the fire, with the exception of Viciedo, who has been nurtured along. If they go into the season with Axelrod as a starter, it's suicide. I actually think they'd be much more likely to pick up a veteran off the waiver wire/unsigned FA list than go to Dylan. It certainly depends on Cooper's recommendation. There's no reason he (Molina) can't make tremendous strides in the next 2-3 months. And I wouldn't absolutely count Hector Santiago out of the running just yet, either.

QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:04 PM) Although I'm a bit upset that the White Sox lost Buehrle to free agency, I am glad that they aren't adding to the payroll to make things complicated. If it is truly time to rebuild, they may as well dump one of Floyd or Danks and try to revamp the outfield since Tank and Quentin have no business being out there in left and right together. What holes do the Sox have left to fill? Bullpen now, with Sale/Santos gone and Thornton on the way out. You've got Reed, Frasor, Crain, Ohman and probably Hector Santiago at this point...with Stewart/Molina as the long man/spot starter potentially. I think they would rather send Molina back to AA/AAA to start, so the more likely scenario is Molina as the 5th and Stewart as the long man. Sale Floyd/Danks (one or both traded) Humber Peavy Molina/Stewart There really aren't that many open spots or roster battles on the 25 man. How much playing time De Aza gets, and whether he's the leadoff guy....that has to be the case if Quentin is gone. If you keep Quentin/Viciedo together in the same outfield, then you're stuck with Alex Rios as your leadoff hitter, or Alexei Ramirez.

And you even could have added Clayton Richard to that last 6 months ago. That would have been a nice foundation. Obviously, the lack of depth at the minor league level has killed us. Detroit pretty clearly has to be the favorite heading into 2012, but strange things have always happened to favorites in the AL Central over the last decade. The division's up for grabs if Verlander goes down. And the White Sox have always performed above expectations when nothing is expected from them, like 2000/2005/2008. Obviously, a lot of our success is going to be predicated on Sale/Stewart/Molina and whoever we can get back for Floyd/Danks. You'd have to think it would make more sense to trade Danks, but you can't be opposed to dealing both of them, because it's 50/50 at best whether we can be competitive or not in 2013. It's hard to expect either Humber or Konerko to perform as well as they did, although you have to hope Phil looks better than his last six weeks of starts or we're once again behind the 8 ball. Still, Floyd seems like the type of guy who's become quite comfortable with Cooper and the Sox. He might be willing to sign a slightly below market value contract to stick around in the future. If Viciedo, Beckham, Dunn and Rios hit (3 of them, one can flop), then we COULD be contenders, but it all comes back to the starting rotation, as usual. And many are already predicting a Peavy career renaissance. And, of course, there's a huge question mark now with Reed and Crain as the closer, and the probability with the market for LH relievers being so barren that they almost have to deal Matt Thornton, as he's a luxury (a set-up guy paid as a quasi/pseudo-closer) that we simply can't afford in a rebuilding phase. Which also makes the Frasor decision all the more maddening...almost $4 million on a guy whose stuff just looked "mehhh" when he used to feature a dominant fastball before being overused and abused the last 5 years. Clearly, KW felt the risk of going with Reed/Crain/Frasor was worth it...in terms of adding another starter which they simply didn't have in the minors.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:15 AM) more BS. it's ok to stop being a sox fan if they lose 100 games? Okay. You're Brooks Boyer. Your main appeal to sell season tickets to White Sox fans is loyalty and responsibility/obligation to support the organization? That's not the way most professional sports franchises operate. Nobody said anything about not being a White Sox fan any longer. I could care less at this point if they trade Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Quentin, AJ and Konerko. I'll still cheer for them and follow the games wherever I am in the world, and post here. Did you organize all the season tickets holders together to raise $14 million in venture capital to pay Mark Buehrle for this season? If you really want to fight the majority of posters here, go right ahead, but you're not going to find many on your side as long as Kenny Williams is still around as the General Manager.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) bulls*** to the bolded part. sox offer 1/2 price mondays, and plenty of other offers. the 2012 monday price is as low as $7. that's less than the cost of a beer at the park. if you're not an upper deck snob, you will find good deals to go to a game. as for parking, the united center has parking from $20-$35, and the bears have parking that STARTS at $35(if you're lucky to get it when they go on sale). so the sox selling parking at $23 is within the range of chicago sports. ALSO, the sox allow you to tailgate, something that cannot be said at the united center. When you have the 4th highest average ticket price in all of MLB, that's not exactly targeting middle class families. The majority of the tickets in the ballpark are quite expensive. Bleacher seats (which SHOULD be for middle class fans, and are in most stadiums) are way way out of whack with reality. And I've never understood the fixation with segregating the upper decks and lower decks so much...it's like being treated to steerage class on the Titanic. And baseball's still unique having a season 2X or 8-9-10X as long as the average basketball/football season in terms of home games.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 07:39 AM) Well you can't expect a pitcher a year removed from rehab for a major injury to be better that would just be silly. People never pitch better after strengthening thier shoulders. So there's no reason to expect him to better this year at all. I'm tired of people ripping a guy who had a major, unique injury to his throwing shoulder for trying to pitch. The guy worked his rear end off trying to help his team and he gets nothing but complaints. I know I've said it before but I would rather have a competitive guy like Peavy who refuses to give up as opposed to a guy like Mark Prior who rfuses to pitch because of soreness in his shoulder. I've never ripped on Peavy, really, ever. My only point is that I'm going to get tired of all the Peavy/Dunn/Rios/Beckham "comeback" stories. Because certainly we're not going to add much going forward outside of unproven young talent. And my other issue is Peavy now apparently saying he doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding effort when the 2009-2011 seasons he's had have contributed mightily to putting us in this mess where we can't retain one of our two franchise players. (Obviously, KW/Rios/Dunn are the other key part of that equation). I don't hate Peavy, though. And I wouldn't be shocked if he pitched as well as he has since he was with the Padres in 2007. Maybe a 3.6-3.75 ERA, optimistically.