caulfield12

QUOTE (Real @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 02:10 AM) AJ can veto a trade, he's 10/5 with the Sox. And Sale will be an Ace mid-year? he'll have a dead arm by august if he's a starter. If Mark's gone (along with Ozzie), I don't think AJ would want to stick around if he didn't feel wanted any longer. The only connection to the past with this team would be JR, Konerko and Cooper. He's one of the most competitive guys on the team as well...AJ SEEMINGLY would rather play somewhere where he could win right away than waiting for 2-3 years as KW is projecting, 2014 as the year to "go for it" again. As far as Sale goes, yeah, (witness the Humber and Stewart IP trends this year) that's a big issue for Chris going forward.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 01:53 AM) That's a nice article on Martinez, but it's a fluff piece. Expect one (and maybe several) about Sandy, and perhaps hundreds talking up Francona if he is indeed gone. The main thing is, what will any of these candidates do to make Adam Dunn become a Major League player again? What will they do to turn Rios around, or make Beckham reach at least half his potential? What will they do to make sure that Sale, if he is converted to a starter, becomes a #3 starter or better? Etc. etc. These are all pretty tall tasks and if they can't be done then whoever is managing is going to have to deal with the resulting s***storm from the fans and media. I think there is especially too much Dave Martinez love in here. Tampa Bay is not the market Chicago is. They are not the baseball city Chicago is and neither is their fanbase as passionate. Furthermore, everything is peachy in Tampa ATM while the Sox are deep in the s***ter. On paper Martinez is highly qualified, without a doubt, but he has no idea what he's in for, nor does any other non-veteran candidate, and there's no reason to believe that just because he knows the game like the back of his hand he is also capable of managing a bad team with multiple albatrosses in a major market full of angry fans, and staying positive throughout the process, persevering, and making it through the light at the end of the tunnel. Except he has been here (in Chicago) at a time when the stadium was fairly new and expectations were high with those early 90's White Sox teams. If he didn't have the prior connection to the Sox, I would tend to agree 100%. This is the same thing that happened to Todd Lickliter when he left Butler for the University of Iowa. The fishbowl that is Iowa or Nebraska sports coverage (all the focus in on those two university's basketball and football teams) just tore him apart eventually. He wasn't ready for it, even though you have the analogy of reaching the spotlight of the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 or ALCS/NLCS, etc. I do think the Martinez love or whatever you want to call it is 100% attributable to 1) the notion that he's more SABR/mathematics oriented, 2) the "genius" of Joe Maddon supposedly rubbing off, and their 3/4 playoff success in that division and 3) most Sox fans here would seem to prefer the type of GM who will stand up against KW and not just be an "organizational guy" like they, for whatever reason, are perceiving or have perceived Alomar Jr., to be. If Sandy hadn't spent so much time here as a player, I would probably be more open-minded about him. And yet I'm using the fact that Dave Martinez WAS here as well...yet it predates the KW time period of GM by quite a margin.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 02:01 AM) Did u read his article on his website? Class. Except to fans at the stadium? That's huge in itself. These guys come to the ballpark for 6 months. He's always gracious??? That's class. Ozzie likes to talk and a lot of you hate his mouth. Don't hate the man. hate the mouth. Greg, that only goes so far. You can't say that about Reverend Fred Phelps down in your neck of the woods or Terry Jones in Florida. What he says and has said, whether he intended it to be for public consumption (and he's 100% aware of when a mike or tape recorder is around him, ask Phil Rogers)...coming directly from his mouth, he's made a lot of his original fans turn against him the last 2-3 seasons. Surely nobody was anti-Ozzie like they are now back in 2008.

Well, the other problem is let's say Quentin asked for $17-19 million over 2 years (second year to buy him out of first year of FA). With his injury history, it's just as likely he could end up being a drain on the payroll. You're taking a big gamble assuming he would be the most marketable bat on the market. Certainly, he COULD be, but is it another payroll risk Williams/JR are willing to take? A lot depends on what were the legitimate offers for Quentin that were bypassed by KW in June/July. The other kid acquired from the Marlins (Oswaldo) has to figure into the battle with Escobar for the infield/utilty spot being vacated by Omar Vizquel. And you just MIGHT want to have one veteran on the bench. That's a pretty youthful group of 4.

Dave Martinez is currently in his 4th season as bench coach with the Rays. (Photo: Nick Laham/Getty)By DAVE SCHEIBER FoxSportsFlorida.com Rays Writer ST. PETERSBURG � The home office of Dave Martinez is a long, pine bench that runs the length of the Rays dugout � the grainy base of operations where he fixes his gaze on the field, offering insights and suggestions to manager Joe Maddon from a life in the game. A bench coach's job can be as hard as the wood he sits on or the metal rail he leans against, always side by side with a skipper who relies on his wise counsel at any given moment. It requires a willingness to speak up in high-pressure situations without worrying about getting shot down; the tact and people skills that help forge a bond with the boss, and the wealth of baseball knowledge that transforms him into a trusted and valuable sounding board, not just a voice from the bench. These are traits that apply in abundance to Martinez, a player who batted .276 in 16 seasons with eight different teams, an original member of the Rays who got the franchise's first hit, and now in his fourth season as Tampa Bay bench coach and the man Maddon relies on most during the heat of competition. This past week, I sat down with the 45-year-old Brooklyn, N.Y. native where he earns his keep, the bench, to talk about the rigors of his work and the possibility that he might one day have a bench coach of his own to lean on as a major league manager. You'll also be able to hear from Martinez himself, not to mention many of his colleagues, in a new edition of Inside the Rays premiering this afternoon immediately after the SunSports telecast of the 1:40 p.m. Tampa Bay-Kansas City game, a contest that has suddenly taken on added meaning following the Royals' second straight win over the 17-7 Rays, a 4-2, 11-inning triumph Saturday night at Tropicana Field. "Joe and I talk about a lot of different things during a game," said Martinez, who attended Lake Howell High in Winter Park, Fla. "What I try to do is manage the game the way I see it and when Joe asks me questions, I give him my opinions and make suggestions, and then he does what he deems right." Martinez explained that he and Maddon split the field in half to maximize their observations and then confer on what they've noticed. "All of a sudden, he'll say, 'Did you see that?' or I'll say, 'Hey, did you see what's going on here?' � we kind of put our ideas together, and every day we're trying to make things a little better," he said. It helps that Martinez and Maddon are more than professional associates; they genuinely respect and like each other. "As far as I'm concerned, Joe's more of a good friend than anything," Martinez said. "We get along really well. We see similar things. We communicate really well, I don't ever have a problem speaking my mind and he knows that. And it's vice versa." Not surprisingly, Maddon echoes the sentiment. "Davey brings a lot to the job," he said. "He enters into all the different facets of the game that the position players are involved in. He's not as much involved with the pitching side, but with Shelty (batting coach Derek Shelton) he helps out with the hitting. With Fo (Tom Foley) and Cuz (George Hendrick), he helps with the defense, both with the infield and the outfield. "With me, he knows in advance what I'm thinking so by the time I actually say it, he says 'I already talked to so-and-so.' He's always a step ahead. He's very blunt and good with the players when we mess up. He takes care of a lot of stuff I don't have to take care of there. And the players have a lot of trust and faith in him based on his experience as a major league player as well as how he handles them as a coach." Martinez' baseball resume commands instant respect. The talented lefthander played in 1,919 games and amassed 1,599 hits, while playing a standout defense in centerfield, rightfield and at first base (he even pitched two games for Montreal, once clocked at 87 mph). He began his career in 1987 with the Chicago Cubs, where he played for manager Don Zimmer, later the longtime bench coach for Joe Torre with the Yankees and now the venerable special assistant for the Rays. He later enjoyed a productive stint with the Expos from 1988-91, a teammate of future Tampa Bay third base coach Foley (he would become Martinez's bench coach, possibly), with whom he remains close friends, often driving to the park together. Other stops included Cincinnati (1992), San Francisco (1993-94), the White Sox (1995-97) and Tampa Bay, playing from the inaugural season of 1998 to 2000, batting .271 in 261 games as the starting rightfielder. He was also the first Devil Ray to steal two bases in a game and hit an inside-the-park homerun. In 2000, Martinez make the rounds in a major way, playing for Tampa Bay, Texas, Toronto and the Cubs, with three trades in a span of 83 days. His final season in the majors came a year later with Atlanta and, perhaps fittingly, Martinez made it to the post-season for the first time in his career, having batted .287 in limited duty for the Braves. Zimmer knows better than many what it takes to excel as a bench coach, he was Torre's trusted adviser during the Yankees' remarkable run of four World Series titles and 12 straight years in the playoffs. Tops on the list for him was having a thick skin. "I could say anything with Joe Torre, we understood each other, and I said, 'If I suggest 10 different things and you don't use any of it, that's not hurting my feelings," Zimmer said. "It's his club. If I get mad that he doesn't use any of my suggestions, then it's not going to work." Zimmer remembers Martinez as an excellent ballplayer from their Cubs days together. "He was a tough player, he had a great arm," he said. "When lefties throw the ball in from the outfield, it can sometimes tail away. He threw the ball just like a bullet." The old baseball man known simply as Zim is happy for his former player. "This is good experience for him," he said. "He knows a lot more now than he did two years ago. He works hard at it and he does a good job. And I think he's a candidate to one day be a manager." Martinez says he isn't focused on that possibility. "People always ask me about managing, and I always say I take one day at a time," he said. "If it ever happens, it happens. Would I like to do it? Yeah, I would. But only time will tell." For now, he's thrilled to be soaking up as much as he can from Maddon. "Joe gives me a lot of leeway here," he said. "I suggest when maybe to pinch-run, when we might want to pinch-hit due to the matchup. I suggest when to bunt, when not to bunt. He lets me do a lot. Every game I'm a student of the game and I've always been that way, even when I played. To me, Joe is probably one of the best, if not the best, teacher I've been around as far as knowing everything about the game. Not just the game, but statistics, using the computer. We talk. I listen. I'll pick his brain. Now it's to the point where I'm on the same page every day." Martinez has one favorite story from his bench coach tenure with Maddon. It happened during the 2008 season, the first time Maddon was thrown out of game during Martinez' tenure. "As a player, I've seen managers get thrown out of a game and they go inside and watch the game on TV, and then they'll relay who they want to pitch, so I figured Joe was sitting in there," he recalled. "So a situation came up, and I told (Eric) Hinske to go in there and see what Joe wants. We were down two runs and I wanted to know whether he wanted to pinch hit. Hinske comes back out and says, 'Hey, Joe's having a glass of wine. You're on your own!" The story illustrates the confidence Maddon has had in Martinez and his desire to let him grow in the job. It's small wonder that manager and bench coach have built such a strong working relationship and friendship � and have gotten such great results along the way. "The thing I can honestly say that's most gratifying out of all of it is that our system is working," he said. "I think the guys believe in everything we tell them. We preach a lot of things but they go out and are doing it and they're constantly learning. It's a good feeling to know that we're getting through to these guys." With the help of a seasoned presence on the bench.

QUOTE (Cali @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 11:52 PM) Has anyone else heard any rumors of Boston being interested in Martinez now too? aka my nightmare scenario... Can they afford to name a guy with no managerial experience? Epstein's job would be on the line if it backfired. A proven name gets him more time, IMO. That and the fact that hiring someone from the staff of the team that's been bedeviling you for 4 seasons would be the same as the White Sox hiring Ron Gardenhire or Terry Ryan as manager/GM. Doesn't seem very likely. Possible, maybe? http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Aou0...-redsoxcollapse Looks like it is still quite possible Francona comes back...and we might not know one way or the other for another week or so, at the earliest.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 11:30 PM) Our bullpen was one of team strengths I think, plus what exactly was historic about the tigers run. I guess that they've never won the AL Central and have collapsed/choked away divisions to the Twins in 2006 and 2009 after blowing significant leads.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 12:11 AM) The guy is 52. He is YOUNG by baseball standards. THis would be a great swap; Oz for Tito. Tito will win 1-2 WS title with the Sox and be a Hall of Famer! Sox are gonna blow this and it is UNACCEPTABLE Greg, please don't fixate on Tito Francona as the ONLY choice at this point in time...a million things might change in the next 24-72 hours. Who's to say he would be a better choice than, say, Bob Brenly? We can look at resumes and CV's and argue that Martinez would be a better pick than Alomar, taking everything we actually know into consideration, but it's still just an educated guess. Think of all the "hot coaches" in college basketball that take their mid-major teams to the Sweet 16 or beyond, get huge contracts with the big conference schools and fall on their faces. There are too many to count. If we were going 100% "All In" in 2012, sure, Francona would be the one to do it. But it doesn't appear as if we're going in that direction from all signs and indications. It's the same reason we wouldn't want Tony LaRussa or Joe Torre, either.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 11:21 PM) This is pretty much exactly it. However, beyond that, there are a few specific qualities I would like to see. 1) Please no gigantic ego. I don't want anyone who thinks he is bigger than the team, city, players, organization, or the game itself. No more distractions. No more DHing Omar Vizquel or Mark Kotsay just to be different, and no batting the pitcher 8th for the same reason. 2) I want someone humble and willing to learn, someone who is overflowing with knowledge of the game but yet would consider himself more or less a blank slate. I want someone who is open to all new ideas but still sits on an old-school type baseball foundation - upside/potential based on tools, stuff, mechanics. I definitely do not want some dogmatic preacher who insists on making out his lineup card based on old baseball adages or fangraph spunk. Give me a guy who will actually read the advanced stats and also knows context. Give me someone who will make his mistakes, but then will freely admit them, learn from them, and become a better manager as a result. 3) Like Ozzie, I want someone who will at least try to keep the clubhouse loose and try to make the season fun. Obviously this stuff doesn't last forever, but it's probably pretty nice while it lasts given the length of the baseball season and how much time the players are forced to spend with each other. 4) Also like Ozzie, I want a manager who will let a young pitcher work "too long." Pitchers need to be able to work themselves out of messy situations, go past the 100 pitch mark, finish out games when they can, etc. Over his tenure here this was Ozzie's best quality IMO. Cooper wouldn't nearly look like the genius he is with another Jerry Manuel managing this team. 5) We need someone who can deal with the asshole media. Imagine having a star athlete on your roster making millions upon millions of dollars, and then you, as a manager, having to coax the guy into playing and earning his money. Imagine trying to get a guy like this to give a s*** while simultaneously walking that fine line between hardass and pushover, and trying not to turn the rest of the team against you in the process. Then imagine that none of your efforts work, and the fans blame you for it, and the fans are breathing down your neck over it, and as a result you have the media asking the same "tough questions" over and over for weeks or even months on end, right in the middle of a disappointing season, with a camera and a microphone in your face at all times. Not many people can deal with that without getting drunk or exploding, or coming across as a powerless organizational puppet with zero respect from his players. To me, this all sounds like a younger manager with a long history in the game who has an open mind and is personable. However, there is no way, as a fan, to know the personalities of these guys enough to say that one guy is better than another. As long as we get someone who fits the above 1-4, I will be happy. However, you never know which guy is going to be able to deal with the media, so you just have to take your chances there. I doubt Coop or Sandberg could do that. My picks would be either Sandy, Dave Martinez, or Joe McEwing, and I'd be happy with any of them given what little I know of their make-up. After that it's just wait and see. BTW the teacher does not necessarily make the student, nor does the institution. Ozzie lasted 8 years here and presided over a World Championship and he was the most unconventional hire of them all. There are CEOs and company presidents with little if any college education who actually get invited to speak at the most hallowed institutions in the world and in front of students whose resumes at a similar age would dwarf those of the speakers themselves. This "managerial tree" stuff is really a bunch of nothing IMO, especially when you take into account that we are not talking about managing 1 highly important game right now, we're (ideally) talking about someone who will manage this club for at least the next 3-4 years. And whoever gets the job is going to inherit a likely non-contender anyway, meaning we shouldn't necessarily expect the newly hired to be ready to manage in the playoffs come October 2012. Whoever we get is going to have to develop his own unique way of doing things, and his success is probably going to have more to do with his personality than anything else - can he win the respect of his players, and can he deal with the media. Focusing on a "game" manager primarily is putting the cart before the horse. Excellent post.

Agree about Santiago...as we might be losing both Danks and Buehrle. Addison Reed has to have a place in there somewhere, obviously. Possibly Lindsay, Infante, Jihan Martinez (Marlins' acquisition), we can fill out the two end pieces from our system or trading away Danks and/or Quentin. The one thing I don't like about keeping Quentin is that it forces DeAza back to the bench, essentially, or Viciedo back to AAA. Unless we're just totally giving up on Dunn, and it doesn't seem like we can afford to do that YET. Keeping Gavin, that's a 50/50 proposition, depending upon what he's worth to other teams. I'm not sure spending $30 million for 3 years (something like that) makes much sense from the standpoint of the Sox rebuilding to keep him around, but obviously dealing both Floyd AND Danks AND losing Buehrle, doesn't seem that all THREE of those things can happen for us to remain competitive in 2012.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 10:28 PM) It's not going to be a total rebuild, but I do expect 2 themes: 1) Save payroll whereever possible* 2) Mix in as many young players as possible. *The exception to this rule is Mark Buerhle. Do they give him a 2 or 3 year deal at $12 million or so (which is less than he's making now)? I think it's doubtful unless he takes a significant discount (say $10 millin a season for 1 year with a club option on Year 2), which is unlikely given that he'll likely find an attractive deal on the open market. C - A.J. Pierzynski: He's due to make $6 million next season. I expect the White Sox to move him to anyone who wants him. I think the White Sox will be happy to take little in return assuming the team who acquires him picks up the remainder of the deal. I'd prefer to have him come back since I'm not convinced that Tyler Flowers will hit .230 in a full season and he can also provide another left handed bat, and possibly some at-bats at DH if Dunn doesn't produce again. Still, I think there will be a few suitors for A.J., on a 1 year deal, likey saving the White Sox $6 million next season. 1B - Paul Konerko: He's getting older, and it's a shame that his last 2 seasons have gone for nothing, but he's one of the few offensive bright spots, and despite the impending age, is the least of the concerns for the White Sox. 2B - Gordon Beckham: He's been a bust. Yes, he plays pretty good defense, but he simply can't be given the 2B job next spring training without a battle. Personally, I'd love to see Brent Lillibridge get a shot here, but my guess is that the White Sox view him as a utility player. The player acquired from Florida, I believe Ozzie Martinez, is also being viewed as a possible 2B. In either case, this position will be filled internally next season. 3B - Brent Morel: Good defensive player who was a pretty bad hitter this season. He has to get on base more to be a productive player, and hopefully can keep the power stroke going next season. I'd like to think he can increase his OBP next season by drawing a few more walks, and hit about 15-20 HR. I may be aiming high here, but he's the unquestioned 3B of the future (for now). SS - Alexi Ramirez: Still hoping him to put up better offensive numbers, but this may be what he iis, and that's a pretty solid MLB SS. Not great, but will make the defensive plays, and is a good position to have settled for the long-term. LF - D.Viceido: This is the one guy from the minors who has upside and is their home grown prospect (well, sort of). I expect Juan Pierre to be allowed to walk, saving the White Sox a few million. CF / RF: De Aza and Rios: I would hope that there is somebody else involved here. It could be Lillibridge. I'd prefer to see Rios in RF going forward, maybe an occasional start in CF and I think De Aza, based on strong play this season on the White Sox, is the favorite to earn regular playing time in CF/RF next season. OF is a spot the White Sox ould still add help via trade so I leave open the possibility that another young player could be added to the mix here. Carlos Quentin will be moved via trade since Vicedio can replace him and the Sox aren't likely to pay him on a long-term deal. He can save the team another $8 million or so, and net them a good prospect (or two) in a down market for power hitting. SP: Chris Sale will be in the rotation. I think Mark Buerhle will be gone - that saves around $14 million if they let him walk. I think the White Sox will try to sign John Danks to a long-term deal, but, if not, he'll be on the market, and he's a guy they can bring back 2 good prospects for. It's unlikely both prospects could help immediately, but, if one is a young pitcher, that's another guy who could be in the mix. Gavin Floyd could also be on the market - I suspect it's either Danks or Floyd - and he can probably bring back a good prospect because he's under the teams' control for another 2 seasons and is a solid MLB starter, albeit a bit up and down. Phillip Humber had a good season - I'd love to see him have to earn a spot, but my guess is that with Zach Stewart and maybe another young guy from a trade in the mix, he'll be as high as the #2 or 3 starter. Jake Peavy probably can start no better than a #4 starter, maybe #5 early on because he can be passed on off-days. So, I think we're looking at having 1) Danks or Floyd, 2) Humber 3) Sale 4) Peavy 5) Stewart/Axelrod (with the chance of another young prospect being in the mix. Sale has top of the rotation stuff, but could take time to develop, but this is a rotation that is likely to get hit hard in the AL. RP: Will probably be strength of the team again. Jason Frazior could be moved to save a few million, but it still leaves them with a solid closer in Sergio Santos, 2 leftie relievers in Matt Thornton and Will Ohman, and Jessie Crain fron the right side. Stewart and/or Axerlrod got their feet wet so they could be in the mix here as well. It's not going to be as deep if Sale and Frazior are not in the bullpen, but it's still 4 deep, and that could be a lot worse. So, from possibly letting Buerhle and his $14 million go via free agency, trading A.J, and Frazior to save another $6-8 million depending on how the financials are worked out, plus re-tooling the OF by allowing Pierre to leave and moving Quentin (along with another starter in either Floyd or Danks), the White Sox could potentially cut payroll by around $25-$30 million. In exchange for all this payroll, the White Sox will probably acquire 3 or 4 good prospects (primarily for Danks and Quentin) although there's a reasonable assumption that at least 2 of these 4 guys wouldn't be MLB ready. Still, adding 2 guys who could compete for a spot, say one in the OF and another as a starting pitcher would provide some much needed young ntalnet and payroll relief. Bottom line, the team is likely to be down for a few seasons until they can start developing more young talent and get out from under the bad contracts on the team. I highly doubt this team spends $125 million anytime soon - we'll probably looking at a max payroll of $100 million, maybe less. If Adam Dunn and Alex Rios can provide some offense to help Konerko, then there is less dependence on the starting pitching, but will probably only allow them to hang around in a weak division. With how poorly FRASOR pitched, he's definitely someone KW has to be wavering on offering arbitration and/or picking up the club option. OTOH, he's not going to want for Stewart to be the ONLY return for Edwin Jackson, either. In general, in agreement with almost all of what you said. I think Peavy has to come to spring training ready to be a legit TOP 3 starter again for this team to have ANY chance to compete. I'm not sure how easy it will be to get rid of AJ without eating a little bit of that contract, perhaps $1-1.5-2.0 million.

There's ZERO chance that was written by Ozzie Guillen personally. It was written by someone in the PR office of the Florida Marlins, 100%. There's not a single grammatical error....so obvious, it's not Ozzie's style of expression at all.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 11:17 PM) OK, Francona is likely gone according to this Fox story by Rosenthal that just went up on the Web. How can the White Sox NOT hire this guy. This could work out GREAT in the long run. As much as I LOVE Ozzie, Tito HAS TO BE the man. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/manager...-red-sox-092911 Tnis guy has won TWO WS and we don't want him? Over a couple million bucks? If we don't hire him this has been a s*** time for me. Lose Ozzie and my favorite team won't hire a 2-time WS champion manager who is just 52 years old??? f***. Has he ever won a World Series with a payroll of $90-105 million? That's perhaps the main issue of importance.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 10:28 PM) Okay CF, but please no more beatdowns. I mean that was severe. Since you joined in 2004, I was really hoping you could pull a post out of the hat suggesting your current deconstruction/rebuild-THINK but for the impending 2005 season. That would be most impressive. I don't think anyone honestly could have predicted the 2005 or 2008 seasons going in...just like no Red Sox fan possibly could have predicted September, 2011. Or a White Sox fan predicting 26-5 in 2010 or 4-18 in 2011.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 08:17 PM) So much so that I'm thinking about putting him on IG-NORE. C'mon Marty, I'd miss you too much!!! You and your comrade-in-arms, VictoryMC. Once upon a time, there was a poster at chisox.com named Ncorgbl. You aren't even close to him as a poster in terms of daftness and tin-foiled theories. Keep it up.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 08:48 PM) Not to use a college basketball analogy but Roy Williams at Kansas had a winning "culture" to the tune of about an .820 win percentage. Virtually all of his assistant coaches were huge flops when they became head coaches including Matt Doherty who just about killed Carolina's program he was so bad. COACH K's tree at DUKE hasn't been so successful either Brey foundered originally but has done well recently at ND Quin Snyder, enough said Tommy Amaker, failed at Michigan, "banished" to Harvard David Henderson has done fairly well at a smaller school, Delaware I think Cris Collins, Wojo and Dawkins If you want a successful coaching tree, try Hayden Fry's at Iowa from the late 80's/early 90's Kirk Ferentz, Iowa, 1999–present Bob Stoops, Oklahoma, 1999–present Mike Stoops, Arizona, 2004–present Bill Snyder, Kansas State, 1989–2005, 2009–present Barry Alvarez, Wisconsin, 1990–2005 Bret Bielema, Wisconsin, 2006–present Dan McCarney, Iowa State, 1995–2006, North Texas 2011–present Chuck Long, San Diego State, 2006–2008 Jim Leavitt, South Florida, 1996–2009 Bo Pelini, Nebraska, 2008–present I'd put a LITTLE more credibility into the coaching tree idea for football than for baseball. That said, it's certainly far from irrelevant.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 07:21 PM) Alomar may prove to be a better manager than Martinez none of us know. What we do know is that Alomar would be the comfortable pick for this organization. I think they need something more than "comfortable" at this point in time even if that comes with more risk. I like the assumed risk here of Martinez more than the considerably higher risk of trading Ramirez and Santos for prospects with KW as GM.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 06:03 PM) Yes. Exactly. He markets himself well, and clearly that's the direction he's been taking his brand the last 3-4 seasons with the tweeting, the proposed website... he wants to create a Guillen-family legacy far beyond managing and playing. I can see an Osbournes-esque reality t.v. show not too far in the future... Loria will like it, as long as it makes him more profit.

I was just playing Devil's Advocate back. Guillen and KW are equally responsible for Swisher, IMO. It was never a good fit, with Ozzie, or the entire veteran-led clubhouse. KW knew bringing in both Cabrera and Swisher would lead to some volatility. If he didn't anticipate it, he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 04:00 PM) He had PK, Dye, Thome, TCQ, Alexei in his one year here before we dumped him for nothing cause his sparkiness couldn't be handled. But none of those guys were leadoff hitters, unfortunately. Except Alexei on Opening Day, I think.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:59 PM) You're making stuff up. Joe Cowley doesn't do that? Surely, you jest. I thought all journalists were filled to the brim with integrity and a never-ending desire to win a Pulitzer.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:54 PM) What? You clearly saw the 2004 team, at the end of that season...had the makings of the 2005 World Series champions, largely because Ozzie "Knute Rockne" Guillen was the manager? But because of Ozzie's absence, the 2012 White Sox have zero chance to compete for the World Series title, correct Wizard from Zanzibar? My point is, with your all-seeing, all-knowing omniscient omnipotence, clearly you've correctly foreseen everything that has ever happened in the history of the White Sox and perhaps the rest of the world, true? Just hoping you could put that same talent into good use to save lives, that's all. Or at least enrich yourself by picking the winning lottery numbers.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) I was serious in all of those statements. Ozzie is definitely brilliant. He managed to make himself a superstar in this whole ordeal, and despite being a failed manager for 3 straight years making his move to Miami big-time news while getting another $10 million. He's making money. So Ozzie is an entertainer, more like Lady Gaga or Rush Limbaugh in leveraging his own brand to personally enrich himself? I'll buy that.

Watch Ricardo Andres be the only player of the 3 who makes it to the big leagues... That would be pretty telling for KW's not so renowned Latin American scouting department.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) This post speaks for itself. You see a potential World Series team in the making. I do not. But you clearly did in 2004, right? You were there with Rodin to notice "The Thinker" lurking in that block of granite...or warning onloading passengers to leave the Titanic before its maiden voyage, or the Hindenburg. Only Kenny "The Genius" Williams can see it. Mere mortals cannot.