caulfield12

First time in 20 years that has happened for the Indians. Last time was in 1991, the famed Alex Cole was hit in the Steve Urkel goggles.

Both key elements of that play (Pauley and Fukudome) were acquired at the deadline. Kosuke was awful in the game but they somehow managed to win, probably the most important game of the season (for CLE) after blowing 4 late inning leads in 7 games on their recent road trip. Too bad the Twins lost again. Not!

BUMP. I still want to see how we're losing $14 million this season....or $8 million/$10 million, whatever it is after we shed Jackson and Teahen. Indians win in the bottom of the 14th (yet again at home, making it 12 in a row over the Tigers) on a Fukudome based-loaded hit by pitch (off Pauley) to pull within 3 and the White Sox now 4 back. Amazing effort by both bullpens. Game over at almost 2 am CLE time. Indians used their entire pen and had their Sunday starter, Tomlin, ready to go in the 15th. 25,317 in attendance and most stayed until the end.

So did Brian Anderson's two homers in one game off King Felix, lol. Only the Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox have a better road winning percentage than the White Sox. http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9...cent/order/true We're tied for 4th with FLA and ATL.

Extra innings in Cleveland. 2-2. That darned Below for the Tiggers had something like a no-hitter going if you put together his last 3 relief appearances in a row. Durbin was great too, despite a 6+ season ERA. 7 innings of shutout ball from both teams' relief corps Still tied going into the bottom of the 11th. Al Albuquerque has incredible IP/H and K/9 numbers. Something like a .145 average against. BTW, the last three games of the season, Cleveland is in Detroit. Hopefully we can sneak away with the division while they're beating up each other like tonight. Interestingly, DET didn't bunt the leadoff hitter (Cabrera) on base in the top of the inning and Raburn up. Same situation, Carerra walked and Brantley moved him to 2nd. CLE has 2 chances to win now. Crosses fingers for 4 GB and not a tie for 2nd place with CLE, 5 GB. Foul ball by a matter of feet...Kipnis almost won it down the line with a walkoff homer.

QUOTE (gosox41 @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) If they finish strong and Dunn and Rios play like major league players for the rest of the season then I can see the payroll being in the $100-110MM range. FWIW, Peter Gammons said he heard the Sox would lose $14M this season before the Edwin Jackson trade. So now it's closer to $10M. If this team actually gets legitmately back into a pennant race (need to see .500 first before I'll even worry about catching CLE let alone DET) they may actually lose closer to $8M if attendance increases. Attendance increasing in Sept in a big 'if'. Bob We supposedly made $40 million profit over the last two years (combined) so I guess nobody will be homeless among the Board of Directors. Whew! That's a relief. I'd infer that projected revenue number was based on extrapolating their average attendance of 25,000 over the remainder of the season....without increasing for being in playoff contention or decreasing for being completely out of it.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 08:42 PM) Greg, Maybe youd have more context on my complaints if; 1) you read it from when Ohman was put in the game and 2) you actually watched the game. Im usually not that hard on players/managers (there is almost 10 years of track record you can look up), but Ozzie is not a good manager. And ive been really patient hoping that hed learn the more he managed. Sometimes I really think he's trying to embarass KW by using Ohman in key situations. "He's on the roster, so's I gotta to use him (in the most inexplicable situations for the last guy out of the bullpen)." He had to do it the previous Sunday in the 9th inning when we were down only 4-3 against BOS and Adrian Gonzalez put the game out of reach essentially. I actually turned off the TV because I felt like Ohman was going to give up the tying run and I didn't want to break my remote control.

"20-25 homers a season projection"...okay Hawk, let's just start with 12-18 homers we heard the same types of comments about Brian Anderson putting up Torii Hunter-esque numbers if he played everyday

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 09:07 PM) yes, but since he's searching desperately for a string of negatives to post about the game, you have to cut him some slack. Is it back to we can only post positives when we win games because we won, so everything must have been right/correct? Let's keep in mind it's the Orioles we're playing, not the Tigers. 1) Lillibridge is our best option at 1B defensively 2) Morel has been looking better at the plate recently 3) Quentin is showing signs of going on a hot streak and carrying the team for 7-10 games at a time like he did in 2008. 4) Floyd survived the adversity and pitched through it coming off the rough start against the Yankees 5) Frasor got a key out of Vladimir Guerrero (although Hawk was right, 2-3 years ago Guerrero drops the head of the bat more quickly and crushes it) 6) Chris Sale has been the most improved player on the Sox from April-May until now 7) Santos is becoming a monster 8) AJ is the consummate professional hitter 9) Team just seems more confident and has been holding leads or rallying when necessary 10) First five game win streak for the Sox....White Sox are 7 games over .500 now on the road

Sometimes you wonder if AJ and Sale are falling in love with that slider too much, but it has been working so well recently. Frasor, you really were fortunate that leadoff walk didn't score, had the 0-2 count and Adam Jones should have been on 2nd base with no outs. Things seem to be breaking our way....with the blown Markakis steal call at 3B. That inning changed completely around. Alexei continues to be maddeningly frustrating both offensively and defensively. Nice to see the homer by Morel, definitely he was due. Turned out to be the winning run. Nice job by AJ to hang in there and drive in a run against a LHP. He's really been our best hitter after Konerko for most of the last 2 months. Hawk, stop your man-crush on Gordon Beckham until he's actually hitting .280 or higher.

The Indians have beaten the Tigers 11 times in a row at Progressive Field. That's not so easy to do, especially with how bad CLE was last year.

Still go with the Contreras forkball (05-06) and Loaiza cutter in 2003 on that score. McDowell forkball/splitter as well. Jason Bere "foschball" Takatsu "frisbee"....joking, at least he was fun to watch

Trade Thornton and replace him with Ohman/Santiago/trade return Trade Crain (who has peaked with the Sox) and keep Frasor at $3.75 million for next season Trade Quentin and Danks, keep Buehrle...shore up bullpen/rotation/C & 3B with prospects Fire Walker and see if you can get better results out of Beckham, Morel, Ramirez, Dunn and Rios. Wait until mid-season 2012 if you're going to trade Alexei Ramirez. Really no choice but to go with some combination of DeAza/Lilly/Milledge/Danks to replace Pierre. It would be a platoon with Lilly OR Milledge against LHP and DeAza against RHP. Perhaps one of those three players is so consistent he wins the job outright eventually. Goodbye, Jordan Danks. Replace Vizquel with Kuhn (depending on how he does in AFL and spring training) Finally, I would have Lillibridge practicing all offseason at 3B, so you could go to him if Morel struggles again out of the gate. Start looking at Lindsay/Omogrosso/Infante/Reed to fill in the back end of the pen. -$5.5 Thornton -$5.5 Teahen -$8.5 E. Jackson -$3.5 Linebrink -$8.5 Pierre -$8.0 Quentin -$8.5 Danks -$4.5 Crain -$1.75 Vizquel (replaced by Lillibridge, DeAza/Milledge added to OF) -$1.6 T. Pena (minor leagues/acquired prospect) -$1.2 Castro (replaced by Flowers) That's around $55 million shaved off the payroll. Then you have a lot of increases, but it should get you in the $85-90 million area.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 04:40 PM) Counting on Sale for throwing 140-150 innings as a starting pitcher would be a mistake. Sale will need plenty of time at least 2 years to build up his arm strength to pitch 180-200 innings in a season. Then you lump that in with Peavy, Humber (lack of workload again) and even Stewart, who was a reliever/closer not so long ago in the Reds' system. There's just so many things that can go wrong with a rotation that would be incredibly iffy to begin with ... assuming the departures of Buehrle and Danks. Stewart IP 2008-80 2009-105 2010-136 2011-117 so far Looks like he'll finish at in the 150-170 range if she stays in the Sox rotation. Maybe they can get away with his as the fifth starter. Time will tell.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 03:47 PM) Yawn, really? First of all, first statement there is just not true. And secondly, you have zero idea what would have happened without those moves. None. Saying something like that with such certainty is ridiculous Gilmore's never going to make it, and I guess there's a 25-50% chance that Rodriguez gets a shot sometime down the line with his stuff and being LH. Yes, it's hard to ever assess any acquisition because of steroids (but it's the GM's job to project players into the future and take past PED usage into account)...there are a lot of signs and blinking indicators that Flowers will never be a starting major league catcher, at least with the White Sox. Crain has sucked for the last month. His stuff is just flat and his location has been wanting. If you want to blame Ozzie for overusing him, that's fine. Basically, Crain's 2011 season is starting to look like Linebrink's 2008. Ohman was a waste of money. You have a decent farm system, you produce a guy like that and pay league minimum. As far as Dunn goes, I guess I was somewhere in the middle. There always are concerns about any player switching from the NL to the AL, and about his being able to adjust to being a full-time DH. Those were logical concerns beyond just looking at the back of his baseball card. The one thing that anyone on this board can say with much certainty is that KW has had a negative WAR-GM rating the last three years. It's hard to name more than 5-7 GM's who have clearly been worse during that time period. Without 2005-2008, he'd be finished like Dan Evans was in LA. Combine all the bad moves, Rios/Dunn/Hudson with the massive abyss that is the minor league system's current state of affairs and then Dave Wilder and it's hard to imagine many GM's retaining their job...except in Chicago, where JR is loyal to a fault. Same goes with Guillen and Walker, obviously.

Can you actually worsen a damaged nerve in your leg? Or is it one of those things that "if can handle the pain you can play through it" type of situations?

On the surface, that looks like a rotation that's capable of winning 72-78 games. Sale is the obvious question mark. He's either an ace or everything falls apart and he goes back to the pen. No in-between seemingly. For KW's sake, he better be more like Randy Johnson than Rick Ankiel. Signing Pujols would be perfect, since we already have Konerko and Dunn. Maybe we could make him play 3B again, haha.

Kuhn, Millege and Omogrosso continue to put up strong numbers. At least Viciedo wasn't hitless.

Having Lillibridge at 1B instead of Dunn is already "winning." Forget about anything he might provide offensively.

Balta, do you really think season ticket holders are going to buy Peavy/Floyd/Humber/Sale/Stewart? I wouldn't call that "stacked." I would call it arguably the worst rotation in the division except for KC...that's four huge question marks. Even if Peavy pitches as well as he has the last 2-3 starts, like a 2-3 starter and not a 5. Does anyone want to count on Humber for next year, with how things have gone south the last month? DET has Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello, Fister and Jacob Turner locked up through 2014. CLE has Jimenez, Masterson, Carmona, Carrasco and Tomlin. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6827458/...rong-top-bottom Minnesota looks to be better than us with Liriano, Baker, Blackburn, Duensing and Kyle Gibson. We obviously don't have the hitting, our bullpen will be weakened losing Thornton/Crain/Frasor (possibly 2 of the 3) AND Sale. Ohman or Santiago would be the primary lefty, unless we get one in return for Danks or Quentin. Theoretically they keep the suddenly expensive Thornton, but payroll has to go down. It's certain they won't be able to keep Thornton/Crain/Frasor when they cut the payroll. As much as we might not like it, 2012 also is riding entirely on the shoulders or Rios/Dunn/Beckham. All of them have to be great because Konerko won't or can't keep this up forever, and Viciedo still we be essentialy a rookie, so expecting him to replicate Quentin's numbers from 2011 is pretty much unrealistic. Balta, do you imagine any season ticket holders being enthused about ponying up for tickets solely based on optimism about Viciedo and the prospects we get back for Quentin/Danks? And with the better than 50/50 chance now of losing Buehrle? It looks scary. KW simply HAS to get any trade for Crain/Frasor, Danks and Quentin 100% right. ZERO margin for error at all.

Even if you add Humber/Sale/Santos/Viciedo to your list, we're still close to screwed. Tell me how you plan to bring back Buehrle, Quentin, Danks, Floyd and Konerko next year. The numbers will never add up no matter how much you tweak things. I'm sure they can trade Thornton for a Type B prospect and/or Frasor (or take the compensation pick back) OR Crain. But every move that eliminates one of those five remaining core players from the team puts your further away from contention in 2012. Trade away Ramirez and it's still hard to imagine how that can make you better short-term.

Against RHP the last 6-8 weeks or so, what are Brent's numbers? They have to be pretty darned abysmal. Obviously the homer off Joe Nathan was nice, though.

Sign him to an extension in the offseason and then trade him. Joking...well, sort of. That wouldn't go over too well with other players, obviously. Although I wouldn't put it past KW.

1. Allen/Pena flop 2. Swisher I 3. Swisher II 4. Javy deal (unless you feel Lillibridge was the main target and not Flowers and are willing to buy it just as a salary dump) 5. Jackson/Hudson/Holmberg 6. Teahen acquisition and extension 7. Juan Pierre 8. Manny Ramirez 9. Crain hasn't even looked like a great signing considering our commitment going forward 10. Paying Thornton like a psuedo-closer with his extension 11. Rios 12. Dunn 13. Peavy (not the deal itself, but what has happened since) 14. Ohman (mehhhhhhhhh, wasted money) 15. Being "All In" with a one pitch closer and Brent Morel as your starting 3B Everything KW has touched has turned to crap. If this team just stood pat after 2006 (with the exception of the Thome deal) or 2008, we'd be 200% better off than we are today without all of Williams' incessant tinkering and fixing and adjusting. Allen's power numbers, Carter's power numbers....even Brent Morel's last year in the minors, pretty much meaningless at this point.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 10:34 AM) What on earth are you talking about? Allen's power is his best attribute and is going to be the reason he has a career in the majors at all. In 250 games at the AAA level, he hit 57 homers with an Iso of .266 and he showed excellent plate discipline. Recently, Allen has actually been hitting lefties quite a bit better, which is what actually turned him into a legitimate prospect. He doesn't appear to hit with near the same power against lefties, but he can absolutely be a quality, .850 OPS type 1B at the MLB level. And this is coming from a guy who has never really liked Brandon Allen and hasn't been overly harsh on Williams about the Pena trade. He's not going to have to hit .320 or .330 - that's absurd, really - because he's going to be able to produce 25-30 homers a year. Do you really think KW would have traded Allen for a middle reliever if he truly believed he would have put up those numbers with the Sox? At the time, there was a TON of uncertainty about whether Konerko would still be with the Sox long-term. And, just as importantly, with uncertainty about Thome going forward, they desperately needed a LH power bat in the pipeline. So if he was really going to put up 25-30 homers per year, why did the White Sox and DBacks give up on him so quickly? Why aren't the A's playing Allen or Carter there (1B/DH) TODAY? Their season is already over, playing Conor Jackson does them no good at all for the future. 850 OPS? Really? Is that in a platoon or with everyday playing time? Are you sure you're adjusting those numbers for the PCL or wherever he's been putting up those 57 homers? He is striking out once every 2.5 at-bats at the major league level and hitting around .200. We should have just kept Joe Borchard and stuck him at 1B if those numbers were the goal. We already have Adam Dunn to do that, we don't need another.