caulfield12

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mari...ers_owners.html It might take this thread in a totally different direction, but it's a very LONG but well-thought out piece on the Mariners "rebuilding" project...and we can see lots of similarities between the White Sox and Mariners situations if the Sox come up short again this year. Using the logic that you have to build up the offensive strength at 3B/1B/DH/LF/RF...you can see where the White Sox are coming up way, way short offensively. Dunn, 3B, and, to a lesser extent, Juan Pierre. That's 3/5 "power positions" on the field. In a power hitting stadium. Theoretically, you can even cover for Alex Rios in CF (hitting 160 on the road with a 400ish OPS) if you're getting the OPS production from those 5 positions. In a sense, Alexei Ramirez and Beckham up the middle can also hide or mask these problems to an extent. In a perfect world, Tyler Flowers at C and Dayan Viciedo at 3B and hitting like they were projected to at those 2 positions would have given us a huge advantage, and both those projections just didn't work out, unfortunately, for KW. To me, it points out the flaw in the logic of getting another slappy/low OPS leadoff hitter next year and just replacing Quentin with Viciedo. It's the same problem as this year's team is dealing with all over again. Going forward, they need BOTH Quentin and Viciedo in the same outfield, and much better production from 3B. Dunn and Rios, there's nothing you can do for now. Zero. Except bench either of them. BTW, what is our current team OPS+ average? I know we're one bad game offensively from 11th in the AL in this category, in terms of "pure" OPS. Finally, Kotsay/Jones over Thome, another fail in this category, big-time. Which led directly to signing Adam Dunn...

Other than Beckham (recently), that's a pretty terrible back end of the line-up after Quentin. I wouldn't even pitch to Carlos unless I absolutely had to...same thing with Dunn when he's right behind Konerko. The only positive out of all this is at least Dunn's not in the line-up, let alone hitting 3rd/4th.

And that post-season magic is limited to a once-in-a-century occurence at this point. We just can't actually GET to the playoffs enough for that POSSIBLE magic to be worth waiting for again. I'm starting to think Gardenhire and Guillen should just switch jobs. Then nobody would be happy, probably.

The Pirates aren't that desperate. Since their problems are more offense related, acquiring Morel would do nothing for their future (at this point). They'd lose Jackson after two months and get the comp pick back. And have Quentin for only one year. That's just another version of the Hudson/Holmberg for Jackson deal. They're not ready to sell THAT low on Alvarez yet. It also reminds me of the potential deal with the Reds with Dye almost going for Homer Bailey. Plus, you never know what's going to happen if you ask a player to adjust to a new league in the middle of the season. It's a very tough adjustment for MOST hitters. And USCF covers up Quentin's defensive inadequacies a lot more than PNC Ballpark would in RF or LF. And they don't really desperately need starting pitching. So they're getting Jackson and Morel, two players they don't even need...just to acquire Quentin. And giving up two highly talented and cost-controlled young players in the process, plus the other minor league prospects that you're proposing to send.

If KW REALLY wants to alienate his fanbase, he'll bring in Cora or Bell. Nobody in the world would be excited about either of those guys. It would cost us season ticket renewals. Whether it's fair or not, there's the perception that he's "too close to Ozzie" or would mirror the Guillen style as a manager, which is definitely not what this franchise needs. Plus, he's been passed over for a number of jobs that opened up when the White Sox as an organization actually looked like they had it all together (2005-2008) and knew what they were doing. Finally, I don't think he'd consider "crossing" Guillen after being his loyal/faithful lieutenant for so long. Obviously, Walker wouldn't stay with Cora, would he? Hopefully, he'd go with Guillen. I'd wonder if maybe Ozzie would like to see Cora fail (and that's more likely than not unless KW pulls a rabbit out of the hat again like before 2008) just so he could say "told you so, Sox fans!" Greg, your experience argument only counts to an extent. We all live in a "what have you done for me lately" universe. In fact, Ozzie had very little actual managing background (just as a 3rd/1st base coach) when he was hired. I'm trying to think of an analogy and maybe it doesn't fit, lol. Let's say it's a former president who came in with very little experience but was "tremendously" successful and popular in the earlier part of his career, but things kind of fell apart at the end of his assignment. Would you want him to come back? Heck, there's a very good chance that our current president won't be re-elected because so many people are scared and uncertain about their economic futures. Let's say President "B" was manager of the White Sox from 2004-2007, and President "O" was manager of the White Sox from 2008-2011...the arguments against EITHER manager being provided an opportunity to manage the White Sox in 2012 would be very difficult to SELL to the White Sox fanbase. Fans (and voters) always want the fresh face and don't have the patience to ride things out. Look at what happened with LaRussa, for another example. He wasn't given nearly as much time as Ozzie after having great early success turning things around as a new manager.

Because they got burned by Contreras, Burnett (to a lesser extent), Igawa, Irabu, Pavano, etc. Unless it's truly an elite pitcher like a Sabathia, Cashman has learned slowly, over time, to be much more careful with long-term pitching contracts. They can also look at their rival and see the issues with the likes of Dice-K and Lackey.

Just imagine if we HAD traded Viciedo for Dunn...as it stands, we lost that first round draft pick, but the pitchforks really would have been out in full force were Viciedo putting up similar numbers in the majors (for the Nats) to what he's doing in AAA. It would be even more amusing with Morse also raking and our obvious offensive problems back in Chicago.

Maybe Halladay is the opposite of Alexei Ramirez?

signed extension with White Sox 7/8/07 08:$14M, 09:$14M, 10:$14M, 11:$14M award bonus: $25,000 for Gold Glove, $15,000 for All Star selection no-trade protection 2008: full no-trade clause 2009 - July 15, 2010: limited no-trade protection allowing Buehrle to block trades to certain unspecified clubs. A trade triggers an escalator paying $1M raise to $15M annually, plus a guaranteed fifth year paying $15M for 2012. July 16, 2010-2011: Buehrle may not be traded without his permission, under rights as a 10-and-5 player

Interesting take on why Moustakas is possibly struggling so much. On the first point, the best theory — beyond his facing better pitching — is a mixture of ego and a sort of sibling rivalry gone too far. Eric Hosmer is a close friend. Moustakas has always been The Man of the Royals’ youth movement, the first player officially drafted by general manager Dayton Moore, and the one the front office envisions being the undisputed team leader someday. But at some point in the last year, Hosmer became the Royals’ consensus best prospect. When he was the first one called up this year, Moustakas’ numbers at Class AAA took off immediately. Many don’t think that’s a coincidence. Now that they’re both in Kansas City, Moustakas wants to show fans and the organization that he’s as good as Hosmer. The competition is friendly and mostly unspoken, but it exists. Hosmer is a step ahead, and maybe Moustakas wants to catch up too quickly. Yost says he talks to Moustakas “every day” about being patient and staying confident. The manager’s words about Moustakas’ good body language and thirst for extra work being a positive sign are echoed throughout the organization. The easy thing would be to send Moustakas back to Omaha. Not as a punishment or a sign that he’s no good, but as a chance to remember what it’s like to succeed. As a bonus, the Royals could then play Wilson Betemit every day and better present him for trade possibilities. The Royals aren’t doing that, and internally say they aren’t even considering it, an obvious symbol about what their bigger purpose is. This is the worst team in the American League and, at the moment, particularly dreadful offensively. Overall they’re sixth in runs, but — coincidence or not — are down about 10 percent in runs, hitting, on-base and slugging percentage since Moustakas’ slump began. They’re 4-8 in that time. For as long as Moustakas isn’t hitting, the Royals will have trouble scoring and winning. Chris Getz has the lowest slugging percentage in the American League. Alcides Escobar has the 11th worst. There just isn’t room for another zero in the lineup. In a strange way, the Royals’ being 20 games under .500 and 13 1/2 games out of first place gives them the freedom to operate this way. If they were even six or seven games better, they may be tugged into decisions based more on a faint hope this year rather than the timeline they’ve spent a fortune and the better part of a decade building toward. If another season of 90-plus losses allows Moustakas to work through this initiation and come out the other side as a legitimate middle-of-the-order run producer, then these are good growing pains. Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/18/30219...l#ixzz1SXY5CRY2

3. The White Sox's recent signing of Doug Davis was done with the idea of a possible Edwin Jackson trade in mind. He provides insurance behind Jake Peavy should the Sox take the best offer they get for Jackson, as with him gone they'd be down to five starters. Ozzie Guillen's six-man rotation has cut down the workload for the starting rotation. Mark Buehrle has worked a team high 121 innings entering his start Monday night in Kansas City, and he ranks 39th among major-leaguers in innings pitched. Also, don't forget about Chris Sale. He could be transitioned into the starting rotation if Jackson was traded and a need arose. The one thing we should know about the White Sox is they're going to do something at the trade deadline, even if only Kenny Williams has an idea what he's going to do. Phil Rogers is on crack cocaine. Zambrano, Marmol and especially Aramis Ramirez to the Tigers, at least some of that is logical. The Cubs wantingback Brandon Inge, not even Hendry is THAT dumb. It's almost as logical as the Yankees giving the Sox Curtis Granderson for Rios and Danks. Rogers should know better than to think you can just stick Chris Sale in the starting rotation like that, too. Transitioning over 4-6 weeks and then pitching in the heart of the pennant race as a starter for the first time in months, that doesn't seem like a good idea. If we couldn't/didn't trust Daniel Hudson in that role, why would we ever think Sale could do it more easily than Hudson?

TIM WAKEFIELD (it's pretty amazing how much mileage they've gotten out of him at that price...but I couldn't see Buehrle ever taking a deal where it was so incentives-based) 2 years/$5.5M (2010-11) signed extension with Boston 11/9/09 10:$3.5M, 11:$2.0M 2011 base salary increases based on innings in 2010: $2M salary with 130 IP in 2010 (met) performance bonuses based on starts: 2010: $50,000 each for 11-15 GS; $75,000 each for 16-25 GS; $100,000 each for 26-30 GS $2M base: $75,000 each for 11-15 GS; $0.15M each for 16-20 GS; $0.2M each for 21-30 GS 1 year/$4M (2006), with recurring club options signed extension with Boston 4/19/05 06:$4M, 07:$4M club option, 08:$4M club option (added 10/06)

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 02:15 AM) That's right . Dunn has been disgustingly brutal. Right now Viciedo with a broken arm is better than Dunn. Is that hyperbole? Not even sure anymore at this rate. We need Pete Gray (Grey?) or Jim Abbott to test this nascent theory...

But so has Gordon Beckham (the last two weeks), and not very many Sox fans are happy with him either.

But with all of his talk about early retirement, I think he'd be very content with either a 2 or possibly 3 year deal, then reassessing where things stand again with his family. I don't think there are very many teams out there who will be throwing 5 year offers out there, let alone 6.

The Mariners traded Asdrubal Cabrera, a middle infielder batting .236 at Class AAA Tacoma, to Cleveland for veteran first baseman/DH Eduardo Perez on June 30, 2006. Perez offered little assistance to the M's attempt to win the AL West, batting .195 with one home run and 11 RBI in a half-season. Around 12:50 p.m. Monday, Cabrera waited back on an Anthony Swarzak changeup and whacked it into Target Field's right field bump-out for a three-run homer. This increased Cleveland's lead to 4-0 in what became a 5-2 victory for the first-place Indians. This increased Cabrera's totals to 17 home runs and 58 RBI in 380 at-bats. That is quite an upgrade in power for a 25-year-old who had 18 home runs and 166 RBI in four prior seasons and 1,415 at-bats for Cleveland. The moral of these tales is this: Seattle should never trade a shortstop to Cleveland -- particularly if he happens to wear No. 13 and come from Venezuela. (The other trade was of course Felix Fermin and Reggie Jefferson for Omar Vizquel 15 years earlier) As Twins followers try to convince themselves the Indians are not a factor, there's no better place to like Cleveland in a matchup than at shortstop, the most important fielding position on a diamond. The Twins have a shortstop who looks as if he learned the fundamentals at a baseball academy in Liechtenstein, not as a Gold Glove winner in the Japan League, and the Indians have the best shortstop in the American League. "Flat out, Cabrera has been our MVP,'' Cleveland manager Manny Acta said after Game 1 of the split doubleheader. "He has saved a lot of runs with his defense. We knew he would do that. What surprises everybody is his power." Patrick Reusse, Star Tribune

Coming into this season, you would have thought he was a combination of Roy Hobbs and Shoeless Joe Jackson the way some raved about him.

http://www.csnchicago.com/07/18/11/Buehrle...&feedID=661 How many years and how much money do you offer? If you "lowball" him (based on this year's salary...remember, we had the same situation with Magglio coming off the $14.5 million he made in 2004 but he was injured and his career looked to be in total jeopardy)...compared to his 2011 salary, how much lower can you actually go without insulting one of the two most important players in recent franchise history? Will it be one of those situation like in the past where they APPEAR TO TRY to sign him but make him an offer (or offers) that SEEM reasonable to fans but which they know will never be accepted by Mark and his agent? Do you gamble and try to get Jackson back instead (of Buehrle)? Can we keep Buehrle AND Danks in the same rotation in 2012? With Rios, Dunn, Teahen and Peavy "wasting" so much of the already-allocated payroll for next year, will JR decide against keeping Mark purely for financial reasons? What will the corresponding loss in revenue to the franchise be in terms of lost season ticket sales and bad PR for the Sox?

And the one positive about Reed coming so fast is that it heads off ANY possibility KW will deal Viciedo for a rental "top-notch veteran RH reliever" to complement Crain/Bruney the last 2 months.

Should they trade Buehrle right now? Probably. Will they? Definitely not, KW would face an insurrection. And they're still not going to get Rasmus straight up for Buehrle, because the Cardinals are still taking on around $5 million in additional salary. If the White Sox paid for most of the rest of the year, you POSSIBLY could get Rasmus, but they won't do that. #2, they're not going to do it simply because it means you have to bench Rios or Pierre, and/or trade Quentin. Otherwise, you're acquiring Rasmus and basically writing off $43 million in Rios. Unless you're going to bench Rios for two whole months, then name him the starter again coming into 2012, along with Dayan. And you know how much KW and Ozzie love their "traditional" leadoff hitter. Just not a snowball's chance in hell that the organization would have any credibility with the fans approaching 2012 with Rios as the annointed leadoff hitter to replace Pierre.

Don't you dare say that Rowand!!! I remember when Joe Morgan and many others said the same thing in the middle of 2008 and it kind of fell to pieces in the 2nd half when Linebrink couldn't return to form after the injury.

I think after the DH sweep, the Twins will be hard-pressed to pass all three teams in front of them. The odds are definitely not in their favor. What's going to have to happen is that they get Span/Kubel back and they start getting on base in front of Mauer and Cuddyer. Revere's just wearing down playing everyday and Casilla's erratic at best. I think they were 1/17 in getting on base in the DH, but even 9 hits from Mauer and Cuddyer aren't producing anything because they're mostly not for extra bases (Cuddyer's homer the exception). Plouffe has shown some definitely pop but he's still hitting in the low 200's. What they need more than anything is a good #2 hitter. It's not Casilla, and it's not Nishioka. Huge problem.

Because Buddy Bell worked so much with Teahen when he was with the Royals, that's reason 1. His success against us made him SEEM to be a better player than he actually was/is.

Greg, there are a LOT more issues than his defensive miscues late in games during April. I don't want to have this debate, but your batting average argument for Juan is about the same as saying Brent Morel should be the everyday 3B, or Omar Vizquel. But yes, Juan's definitely not a bigger problem RIGHT NOW than 3B, Dunn and Rios. That's 100% accurate. Nobody could argue otherwise. And it doesn't mean Juan has been anything but "average" or "below average" for the course of the entire season, cumulatively. The White Sox were 2nd in the AL in steals last year. This year, we're 12th. largely due to Juan and Rios...and sitting at a 55% success rate. When speed and hitting for average are his two tools, and he's down to just hitting (but with zero power), it's not going to balance out unless he hits 350-400 with RISP.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 18, 2011 -> 10:45 PM) Cmon folks! Let's get excited. We did win. Offense was somewhat shaky whiffing eight times against Davies, but who cares? We won. Props to Juan, Lexi for immediately lifting the sac fly, Paulie. Good job by the relief corps not blowing it. Crain, Thornton and Sergio all were nasty. I hope we can keep beating KC; their record the last 2 months is so bad it's hard to believe. Except it was actually 9 K's, a career high...and the guy's won what, one game? In some ways, this was worse than the Bruce Chen fiasco, it's just that we got bailed out by their poor defense. Didn't feel like we BEAT them by playing better. They Royals are just so fundamentally flawed they usually get in their own way and give games away to opponents.