caulfield12

Tigers are taking a big chance throwing a top pitching prospect into the lion's den. I guess with Coke out of the rotation and Penny the kind of pitcher who might break down at any time, they have little or no choice. But it's still a big gamble. We saw how much rope that KW was willing to give Hudson last year before dumping him. All of 3 starts. BTW, Indians already beating up on the Orioles, 3-0. Who'd have thought Asdrubal Cabrera would be on a pace for 25-28 homers? I'm also guessing the Twins roll right through the Royals.

Balta brings up a good point about 2007-2008. However, that means 1) they're going to have to bring in another Alexei Ramirez, which some would count as Viciedo already. 2) Acquire another hitter with the ability to put up MVP-like numbers as Quentin did. And have the equivalent of Chris Carter to trade...replacing Quentin with Viciedo is probably not a net gain unless you turn around and spend that extra $6 million or so. 3) Trade Danks for the equivalent of another, younger/cheaper Danks 4) Turn a bad contract into another Gavin Floyd So you could argue we're 3 "perfect" moves from competing for the World Series...and 3 horrible moves away from sinking below the Royals. And there's even MORE wariness than ever before about trading away young talent for veterans in Years 4-6 or players about to become free agents. And out of Rios, Dunn, Peavy and Beckham, at least 2 of those 4 are going to have to play and pitch like All-Stars/Cy Young Award winners. And that's the biggest question mark that nobody can answer going forward. You can look at it as "adding four new players" (the White Sox spin on things) or four lost causes that are weighing down our present and future. Honestly, a lot of people are pretty convinced about Dunn and Peavy EVENTUALLY turning things around. You just have no idea what we're going to get out of either Beckham or Rios, though.

That lack of change doesn't seem to bother manager Ozzie Guillen, who likes what he has in-house. "I don't expect anything because I don't know how we pay them," Guillen said. "I feel comfortable with what we have. They have to show me how good they are. If we play to our potential, I guarantee we're going to kick some people's butt. But we're not playing to our potential now." from new Scott Reifert article at mlb.com/chisox.com Is that Ozzie taking another shot at the fans and the low attendance so far this season in the first part of the quote? Sounds like Ozzie, KW, and the Sox PR staff/Rongey/Boyer/Reifert are all on the same page for the time being.

Except you can't just magically move him into the rotation. As noted earlier in the thread, it would be a 4-6 week process. No way he could go more than 3 innings, 3+ right now. Santiago's already done that successfully. You can't take that risk with a Chris Sale of ramping his pitches up too quickly...not when you've already pushed Peavy too hard.

Yeah, I made a big mistake on the Young contract, for some reason I was thinking it was for 1 1/2 years but it would be 2 1/2 actually. 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M, 15:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout) may block trades to 6 clubs beginning in 2009 if traded between beginning of 2011 season and Spring Training 2014, future salaries increase by $0.5M each Cot's Baseball Contracts/source Alex Rios $4 million for 2011 (remainder), $39.5 million for 2012-2014 (including buyout and increases for each season in event of trade) $43.5 million Young would be 16 + 16 + $5.333=$37.33 million It's a lot closer than I calculated earlier....but still the Rangers would be taking on $6 extra million. On one hand, Young is much more likely to pay off than Rios. However, is that really worth Danks in this pitching market? Just to get back Borbon and/or prospects? Obviously depends on who those prospects are, ofc. I think trading Danks sends a pretty strong message we're not going to be "All In" again for 2012. And Daniels isn't going to watch another "young John Danks" traded to the White Sox again. He'll be much more careful about any young pitching they would part with in a possible trade. Undoubtedly, Young would make up for any pop that Rios MIGHT provide, but that's a pretty weak offensive outfield with Pierre and Borbon, especially if you're considering trading Quentin. If you keep both Quentin and Viciedo in the fold, it's a lot more workable.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) If we are really a contender there's great downside to waiting another week or 2. A Detroit sweep pretty much ends our season. Eight out. We ain't making that up against a Leyland team. Greg, you're forgetting one minor detail. The Tigers have never won the AL Central. They're getting very little out of Inge, Raburn and Ordonez. So of all the teams out there, they would be most interested in Beltran. Valverde hasn't blown a save the entire season, that run of success isn't going to continue. Of all the teams who have a right to fear the Twins at only 6-7 GB, it's the Tigers. They have the same memories of 2006-2010, but even moreso, because they were the team the Twins caught on the last day of 2006 and also losing to them in Game 163 in 2009. They're already fired their pitching coach in somewhat of a desperation move that was supposed to light a fire under Porcello and Scherzer. And their bullpen is still a couple of pitchers short. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Twins put it together in the 2nd half. Who would? If they don't make it, it's only going to be because 1) Mauer and Morneau are shades of their former selves and 2) their bullpen, particularly Capps and Nathan, but basically the whole thing has a been crap ever since they let go of Breslow, Reyes, Rauch, Guerrier, Fuentes and Crain.

Unless KW really surprises everyone and starts taking offers on John Danks beginning today. But is is reasonable to expect anyone (other than KW's "twin") would take him until he makes at least one successful MLB start though coming off the oblique? Who are the other starters out there on the market right now, besides Edwin? D. Lowe? Rich Harden? Capuano?

The obvious problem is that we have to care because of all the money still wrapped up in him for 2012. If they fall out of the race, they definitely need to pick their spots with him...and get Sale extended innings as quickly as possible in August/September. Still think that Peavy can have a great 2012 season. Yeah, I know....3 years late, but better late than never. I'd also be curious to see how much money we've ACTUALLY had to pay him from the time he was acquired through today. That would also have to figure into the equation.

They'd have to play Quentin in LF (or DH) with Ichiro already entrenched in RF. Not sure they have anyone you'd love to have besides Ackley or Smoak. Neither of those guys are going anywhere, certainly not for CQ. It would be a pretty shocking move for them to make. More likely he would go to the Giants, Braves or Phillies. Don't think KW wants him to come back to haunt the White Sox playing in the AL.

Ramirez in the bullpen? Santiago?

The next problem is...are you willing to already write off Brent Morel? Because acquiring Michael Young would block him for 1 1/2 seasons...you're not going to see Young splitting time with Dunn at DH, not for the amount of money both those guys make. So Young would logically have to play 3B for us. I suppose you could just stick him back in AAA for 18 months, but I'm not sure if that's fair to Morel. Who knows, doubt this trade will even happen because I'm not sure if any team out there is clamoring for Alex Rios, especially the Rangers.

We've had luck with Verlander in the past ("stuff" pitchers don't bother us as much as other teams), and Floyd has dominated the Tigers on occasion....but I certainly wouldn't put much money on the White Sox to win this game. 6 GB after Friday would seem like a lot after being only 3-3 1/2 GB a week ago. Yeah, things can change quickly with a hot streak...if we could actually win more than 4 games in a row. One way or the other, the next 2-3 weeks will define the direction of this organization for a long time to come.

Basically we owe Rios $43 million more dollars (including buyout and $1 million per season salary increase in the case of a trade b4 2014) Young would cost us $24 million through the end of next season. Obviously Young would be a huge upgrade over Morel at 3B, but... Who would play CF? You're going to have to make another trade/acquisition or play some combination of Lillibridge/DeAza/Danks in CF. Assuming we kept Quentin and Viciedo together, the huge premium would then go to finding a CFer who could play stout defense to make up for the shortcomings on either side of him. So let's say you trade Rios and Jackson for Young. That makes sense. But trading Rios and Floyd for Young, that puts our entire rotation into flux for 2012 because then we'd only have Danks (maybe), Humber, Peavy and Sale (???) and another ??? at the 5th spot. Who knows what ends up happening with Buehrle. I don't think he would want to stay if he knew he was going to be part of a 2-3 year rebuilding/restructuring effort.

Probably they would be more offended to be asked to "come out" on a message board, lol. According to all the demographic statistics, somewhere between 6-10% of the posters here are gay. Yes, even on a sportsy, "masculine/hetero" message board.

Mitchell now has 21 doubles on the season. .238's a heckuva a lot better than where he was at a month ago. That's encouraging. Of course the strikeouts, less so. Is anyone buying Silverio as an actual prospect still at 3B? Also good to see Keenyn Walker with four doubles out of his first six hits and off to a hot start for now out of the gate.

QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 09:20 PM) whom is realistically tradable? I think to anwser that you have to look at seasons coming down the road. The White Sox only have four starters signed going into next season with Jackson and Buehrle being free agents, so looking at that you certainly don't trade Danks, Floyd, Peavy or Humber. You can move either Jackson or Buehrle however, but given the two, Jackson is much more likely to be moved.Rumors are swirling that the Yankees, and other teams, are calling for Edwin Jackson. White Sox will probably want either MLB-ready player or a regular starter from the Yankees or anyone else for that matter. I would love Brett Gardner on the South Side but just Jackson probably wouldn't cut it Looking at the line-up, the White Sox have most of them coming back next season with only Pierre being a free agent after this season. However, after 2011 Carlos Quentin is a free agent. If you move Quentin, you have to find someone to replace him, obviously. You assume Viciedo replaces Pierre, and you can probably put Alejandro De Aza in for Quentin if he's moved. The White Sox could also want to resign him with roughly 14 million coming off the payroll after 2012. Rumor was flying that Carlos Quentin could be sent to Atlanta for minor league starter Brandon Beachy. Looking at his stats, adding Beachy would be a solid pick up, but then you lose a guy who usually has a high OBP, and when heathy, a guy who can club hit you around 25 home runs. Plus you still have Edwin Jackson. If they do move Quentin then don't re-sign Pierre this offseason, which they wont, then Sox can put two young pieces in the two corner spots in De Aza and Viciedo. Its kind of lame that four players take up 55MM on the payroll, but if they produce then you're getting what you pay for. If not, then its dead money. And so far only Konerko is being what we paid for. I assume Quentin is getting moved because even though they can probably re-sign him after next season, I don't think they do I reckon they're content with Viciedo in RF and its less money the brass has to shell out, and I assume Jackson is moved because he's not resigning and they want something for him instead of letting him walk. Jackson is free to walk as a Free Agent whether we offer him arbitration or not. Right oow, we'd get back a sandwich pick as he's classified as a Type B FA (as a Boras client, he's likely to be able to sign for more than his current salary with at least 2-3 other MLB teams). We control Quentin's rights for one more season. Probably, if it went to arbitration, he'd receive $7.25-8.25 million for next season, assuming he puts up another season of 25-35 homers and 85-110 RBI's. Danks, Floyd and then maybe Sale have the most value to other organizations....Buehrle would probably net you a Top 10-15 prospect in another organization, but mostly it would be a salary dump. And the odds would be at least 50/50 we could get him back in Chicago again, although a lot of posters believe he only would go to St. Louis in a trade. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out, like in 2007. Peavy's almost more unmoveable than Dunn or Rios....unless he features his 95 MPH fastball for 3 starts in a row...or he keeps pitching that well through August and another team does a waiver claim. Then you're still left with a big hole in your rotation for 2012. At this point, the organization seems wedded to the fact that Peavy will finally be 100% again in 2012 and it's too early to cut bait on that contract (along with the insurance subsidy we're getting)....that the odds on him justifying that contract have to turn in our favor soon. We'll probably take a much longer look at Hector Santiago as a 5th starter as well if he continues to pitch as well as he did the first two times out of the pen...featuring the same quality of stuff with 3-4 different pitches and the changes of speed he was able to command.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/07/13/qa-e...raight-friends/ Maybe this will help. Doubt anyone will read, but thought I'd try.

Cue Greg speech comparing Ozzie Guillen as a player to Juan Pierre...and how almost everyone on the White Sox team except for Konerko and AJ has a lower batting average. I do remember assiduously keeping track of the White Sox stats with a handheld calculator, piece of paper and box score and recall that usually our team batting average in that time period ranged from probably low .240's to high .250's (before the arrival of Thomas, Ventura and Sosa). 1985 GUILLEN 273 SOX AVG 253 1986 GUILLEN 250 SOX AVG 247 1987 GUILLEN 279 SOX AVG 258 1988 GUILLEN 261 SOX AVG 244

Umm....okay, Rasmus is just a cheaper version of Carlos Quentin who can play CF adequately.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 08:05 PM) He had no power and didn't walk at all. He wasn't much with the stick, but he did seem to come through in big situations. I thought you were talking about Howard Marshall, Anna Nicole Smith's ex-husband.

Looks like there's at least a 50/50 chance Miguel Cabrera misses the first two games with a mild oblique strain. http://www.freep.com/article/20110710/SPORTS02/110710025 10 Reasons the Tigers will win the AL Central for the first time in history Twins All-Star outfielder Michael Cuddyer frequently has pointed out through the years that they often have surged once they begin playing more games within the division. After being 20 games under .500 and 16½ games out in early June, the Twins will charge out of the All-Star break thinking they have a real shot at another title. “We didn’t give up,” Cuddyer said. “We never folded.” And the rest of the division expects another charge as the Twins get healthy and sort out their bullpen. “It seems like every year they do something miraculous and get themselves back in it,” Detroit righthander Justin Verlander said. “You can never write them off.” Detroit slipped into first place Sunday, and Verlander wants his team to pull away. The Tigers have had issues on the mound, leading to the recent firing of pitching coach Rick Knapp. There are questions about their defense, and it doesn’t help that the Tigers have played .459 ball after the break under manager Jim Leyland over the years. But with Verlander, slugger Miguel Cabrera, emerging catcher Alex Avila and closer Jose Valverde, the Tigers might be the most dangerous team in the Central. “I don’t think you have seen the true talent on this ballclub yet,” Verlander said. “I think we are very well-suited to do some special things during the second half.” Cleveland lost Sunday and fell a half-game behind Detroit. The Indians have been the surprise team, opening 20-8 and leading the division by seven games May 23. But a 4-14 skid enabled the rest of the division to catch up. Their bullpen is strong, and manager Manny Acta said the leadership in the clubhouse is even stronger after the Indians went through a rough patch in the schedule. They will continue to have their skeptics, but they believe they are in it and make it no secret they are looking for a hitter before the July 31 nonwaiver trade deadline to help their cause. “We have guys who get after it,” Acta said, “and that’s what fans in Cleveland like.” The White Sox have been one of the bigger disappointments in the league. The Twins can point to injures for their poor start, but not the White Sox. Designated hitter Adam Dunn, second baseman Gordon Beckham and outfielder Alex Rios haven’t produced. With a strong starting rotation and a hot bullpen, the White Sox could surge with a more consistent offense. “Everyone likes to jump on the hitting,” Konerko said. “If you watched a lot of our games we’ve had a lot of small mistakes in a lot of areas that have cost us.” Chicago, five games back, is 8-18 in the division. With most of the schedule against Central foes, Chicago could fall out of contention if its offense can’t get going. And how can the White Sox consider themselves contenders when they have lost 31 of their past 39 games to the Twins, including three of four last weekend at U.S. Cellular Field? http://www.freep.com/sports

QUOTE (FlySox87 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 06:04 PM) I'm a moderate KW supporter right now, but if he goes out and gets Carlos Gomez (or Figgins, or Bedard, or Hunter), I'm done with him. Straight up. Michael Young, on the other hand, I have always liked. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the most underrated players in baseball and always has been. I'd love to see him on the southside. 09-13:$16M annually (total of $15M deferred) no-trade protection 2007-09, limited no-trade protection from 2010 to May, 2011 (submits list of 8 clubs to which he'd accept trade), before receiving 10-and-5 rights in May, 2011 (current list of 8 includes Colorado, Houston, LA Angels, LA Dodgers, Minnesota, NY Yankees, St. Louis, San Diego) award bonuses: $50,000 for All Star selection; $25,000 for Gold Glove Carlos Delgado?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 06:36 PM) Thats kinda what Ozzie was. How many All-Star teams has Adam Everett made?

Eric Chavez No way they'd take on Morneau's contract. Not even KW is that suicidal to let the foot off the neck of the financial stranglehold that's being caused by Mauer, Morneau and Nathan.

Miguel Cabrera Brad Radke (joking) Jason Kubel Michael Cuddyer Willits Ichiro Fukudome