caulfield12

Only major changes. Lillibridge for Rios in CF (batting 7th) and Alex Gordon back into the Royals' line-up in the 3 hole. SOUND FAMILIAR?? When one looks at the 2011 Detroit Tigers, one sees a team of stark extremes. Detroit possesses four of the top 25 position players in the AL by wins above replacement (WAR) in Jhonny Peralta, Miguel Cabrera, Alex Avila and Brennan Boesch. They also have the third-best pitcher in the league by WAR, Justin Verlander. Yet the Tigers are only a few games above .500 and in second place in a weak AL Central. Looking at Detroit's starting lineup, it's striking to see the gulf between the players that are contributing and the players that aren't. With the players mentioned above and Victor Martinez's bat, the Tigers offense should rank higher than fifth in the AL in runs scored. But that is where it stands, thanks to Magglio Ordonez, Ryan Raburn, Ramon Santiago and Brandon Inge, all of whom have an OPS below .600. Just how impressive is the size of the gulf in the lineup between the performers and the non-performers on a historical level? To examine this, I looked at every team going back to 1901 and took the eight most frequent starters for every team (nine for DH-era American Leaguers). I went with a simple measure of disparity and compared every lineup's top-four and bottom-four hitters to see which lineups in history were the most polarized. To keep things simple, I used OPS. www.espn.com/mlb

So to summarize, as bad as KW has f---ed up in trades over the last 3 seasons, we're still only a couple of his Floyd/Danks/Ramirez/Quentin masterstrokes from being competitive in the future. Of course, everything has to break right with Beckham, Peavy and Dunn. For some reason, Rios seems more and more like a lost cause. It will be very interesting, though, how KW decides to handle Peavy (let's say he goes on an extended run and is healthy for the remainder of the season), Jackson, Danks, Floyd and Buehrle. Who goes, who stays, and what pitchers we can get back for them and in, in all probability, Quentin. Carlos has reached the end of the line where his effectiveness is becoming too pricey...and we can't control his rights long-term, either. We saw the same issues crop up with Jenks, Rowand and Crede at roughly the same point in their White Sox careers (although Joe was more of a health issue, obviously). Danman, why didn't you follow conventional wisdom and stick Sale in the starting rotation?

After watching Dunn flail away for half a season, I'd be a bit more skeptical about bringing in another NL hitter in the middle of the season who's meant to be the "igniter" of the team. Sure, you'd rather have Bourn than Pierre, no doubt about that one. Just pretty hard to assume he'd come close to hitting the ground running for 2011.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Probably true on Rios, but those weren't the rules. Looking at that list makes the Quentin for Beachy speculation seem reasonable. That would be a massive boost in the long-term for the Sox. And if the Braves threw in Scott Proctor, you'd have the additional veteran RH reliever that Ozzie covets. It's pretty obvious Ozzie doesn't trust Pena, and he actually likes Bruney a lot. Maybe we don't make another move there. Maybe it's Kinney, not sure. One thing is that I can't remember too many rookie relievers (besides Jenks and Santos) put into late innings work or trusted by Ozzie right off the bat. Probably, that's as much about their lack of quality (the likes of a Sean Tracey, Nunez or A. Montero, etc.) than anything else.

It's pretty clear that we have a lot of outfield depth and relievers in the pipeline, but very few "impact" infielders or starting pitchers. Of course, you'd rather have the opposite situation, sitting on 2-3 quality shortstops and starters. You'd have to be just as dubious about Tyler Flowers starting in 2013 as you would about Rios. The main problem here is that Mitchell and Thompson are still both 2-3 years away, unless Mitchell can pick it up in the 2nd half and repeat the AFL again and absolutely start out on fire in Birmingham. The odds of him turning into a Beckham-esque AA hitter aren't that great, but stranger things have happened. He seems more like the slow and steady progression type at this point. Personally, it would be nice to see what Danks and/or De Aza could do in place of Rios, but clearly we're not afforded that luxury being in the middle of a pennant race...we'll have to wait until September, at the earliest. Omogrosso's not back to the same pitcher then, is he? The scariest part is Humber at the top of the rotation. When you look at how many other organizations had a shot at him in the last couple of seasons, it's even more of an amazing story than Loaiza in some ways because we'll have him for a much longer time period of effectiveness, hopefully. Esteban just kind of lost it at the end of 2003 and never was the same. Of course, no reason to think that won't happen with Humber, but the fact that you can pencil in Phil as anything #1 in 2013 would have been the most laughable possible offseason projection. It also shows why KW is most likely to hold onto Floyd, despite his obvious deficiencies.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 10:13 AM) Something I've noticed about Rios lately is that it seems to not be a natural instinct for him to hustle. It's like he had to remind himself to run a pop up out in Colorado the day after he got benched. Then in Chicago, he had a soft hit up the middle (that Castro almost fielded) where he was jogging to first the second he hit the ball. DJ's getting on him all the time about not even moving a step when a pickoff play's coming at 2B or when Edwin is on the mound taking forever and he's just disinterestedly almost not even paying attention to what's going on.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) Lillibridge is the best defensive CF we have on the roster, IMO. Also, I can't remember the last time I saw Rios hit a ball hard. Everything seems to be weakly hit, as pitchers are throwing him slow stuff away and he's flying open so fast. This has been nearly a full season slump for Rios, and when you think about it, he's been absolutely mediocre appoximately 75% of his time with the Sox. I think you get just as much production from a platoon of De Aza and Lillibridge the rest of the way. Does anyone realistically see Guillen benching Rios and asking for DeAza? Seems KW's ego is in the way with both Rios and Viciedo. You know he'll never countenance a permanent/long-term Rios benching....Swisher and Linebrink were admitted KW disasters, but he's never going to allow himself to look that bad as to eat the Rios contract, not yet. And you just can't see any way that Rios stays on the team but sits day after day. That would be an absolute disaster for the clubhouse. It's ironic, because bringing in Rios basically forced Dye to the bench, and ended his career in unceremonious fashion.

What is the White Sox record in games Lillibrige starts? Rios starts? When both Rios and Lillibridge are in the same starting line-up?

4 years/$60M (2009-12) signed by Atlanta as a free agent 1/15/09 09:$15M, 10:$15M, 11:$15M, 12:$15M Lowe is currently the Braves' highest paid player. The problem is that Rios is signed through 2014, right? It would have to be something like Beachy & Lowe for Rios, Quentin and one more piece from the White Sox (Jackson maybe, although they'd ask for Floyd/Danks). Seems too complicated to pull off. On one hand, you get rid of Rios and you might not even want to pay Quentin $8-9 million in 2012, but the only way they're (Braves) going to take Rios' contract for that many years is if you give them Danks, Jackson or Floyd as well. They don't need Viciedo AND Quentin, and we can't possibly give up both of them anyway. That also leaves the starting outfield as Pierre, Lillibridge/DeAza (Danks if DeAza flops) platoon and Viciedo. But I just can't imagine KW biting the bullet on the Rios deal in such a manner.

Guess it seemed weird that three of our Top 25-30 prospects are all named Tyler. Hmmm....

Quentin for Beachy and Scott Proctor makes some sense. IF IF IF there's a second or third move involved with the created glut of starting pitching. Still don't think it's happening. And swapping out Quentin for Viciedo doesn't in any likelihood improve our offense...

In the same world where Guillen can be traded for Logan Morrison. Rios is obviously dis-interested and dogging it this year. I've never seen a guy making about 15 mill look so unhappy. If you can see that as a fan, you don't think every scout and GM in baseball is and has been aware of the same issue? The White Sox are kind of seen as the organization of "last resort" for a lot of troubled players. If you can't figure it out playing for the Sox, there's a pretty low probability of turning it around elsewhere.

If you were constructing a team out of ONLY current White Sox minor league prospects and you knew that team would be the one you would be "stuck" with at the major league level from 2013-2015 (let's say it was for an expansion franchise), who would you pick and why? NOTE: I only know a bit about the minors, so I'll defer judgement and just throw out names and see where we get. OF candidates....Jordan Danks, Viciedo, Jared Mitchell, Jose Martinez, Lastings Milledge, Keenyn "Don't Call Me KW, it's Leggo My Eggo" Walker, B. Short, Trayce Thompson 3B Tyler Kuhn/Silverio 2B Tyler Saladino SS Eduardo Escobar 1B Viciedo/Wilkins/Christian Marrero C Flowers/Phegley/Blanke/Kevan Smith SP Petricka SP Rienzo SP ???? SP ???? SP ???? Shirek, Axelrod, Leesman, Upchurch, Griffith BP Infante BP Remenowsky BP Santos Rodriguez BP Addison Reed BP Omogrosso (haven't seen him much since he returned from injury) BP Nathan Jones

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 01:47 AM) Most Tigers fans generally hate Brandon Inge. Maybe he's lost some of his appeal in the last two seasons because of his offensive ineptitude, but when I last went to a Tigers game, he was clearly the fan favorite. I guess that was April or May of 2009. Now it's obviously Verlander with nobody else even close. But I always thought of him as kind of like Joe Crede or Aaron Rowand in terms of his fanclub membership.

I agree, Gregster. What this team really needs is one more bullpen pitcher (RH), but that's going to come at a steep price. Not worth Viciedo when Bruney and Pena might be able to get the job done. We also have the likes of Infante and Reed to draw from the minors. In reality, the only place you see them making a move is with Morel, simply because he's a rookie and Ozzie doesn't trust rookies in a pennant race. They wouldn't trade him, probably just put him back in AAA and bring in a one-and-done veteran in the Scott Rolen mode (no, I don't want Rolen in particular, just throwing out a name). Trading Quentin's more proven bat for Viciedo is just a recipe for it to blow up in KW's face again. No thanks to that move. We should be improving our offense, not subtracting from it (potentially). The only way it makes sense is if KW's thinking 2-3 moves ahead and he's got a move in mind to bring in someone like Montero (future franchise player) and another veteran (3B or bullpen) who can help RIGHT NOW (assuming they had 7 starting pitchers). But trading Danks/Jackson/Floyd in the middle of the season's obviously a dangerous move. I wouldn't put it past KW, but going cheap with B. Beach and having an extra starter to count on for next year to go along with Sale wouldn't be horrible. It still doesn't exactly go with the "All In" theme and it's hard to imagine them not milking Jackson for everything he's worth the next 3 months. In that scenario, Floyd might be the odd man out...depends, most teams would obviously prefer Danks but the costs for both would be pretty steep. The DBacks would probably offer Holmberg for Quentin back, haha.

Viciedo hitting 4th? The White Sox taking on Derek Lowe's contract? HUH? Pierre Beckham Konerko Dunn Ramirez AJ Viciedo Rios Morel

"I promise you it’s a way better feeling that way than the other way," Dunn said. "I appreciate them, especially tonight, sticking with it. The thing about the fans, they boo and stuff because they want to see the team and me personally do so well. That’s how I’ve been looking at it. It makes it more special when they cheer like that.” Dunn admitted that some hitless games were rougher than others. “You sit there, and it seems like I went on a stretch of so many different things, just hopefully something to spark something and feel something, but it didn’t work," Dunn said. "(Sunday) felt good, and today felt good, so hopefully it’s a start." www.chicagotribune.com/sports

“I don’t know,” Crow said. “I thought I just stepped straight off the back of the mound, but that’s what the guy called. So you have to let it stand.” Manager Ned Yost protested briefly while the Sox celebrated and the crowd of 31,077 roared, but Rapuano stuck to his ruling that Crow twitched his shoulder before stepping off the rubber. “He was adamant that it was a balk,” Yost said. “I’ve looked at the replay four or five times, and I’m having a hard time seeing it. Eddie said that he turned his shoulder before he stepped off. “I don’t know how you can end the game with that, but they seemed all to be in agreement in the umpires’ room that it was a balk. I’ve watched the video. There was no intent to deceive any runners. He was stepping off.” “I love Ed Rapuano,” right fielder Jeff Francoeur said. “He’s one of my favorites, but you’d better be (darn) well sure that someone balks when you call a game on that. It’s a shame. “You’ve got an All-Star reliever out there. You’ve got Adam Dunn in the box, and the crowd is going crazy. It’s a great atmosphere. And you’re going to call a balk to end the game? I don’t see it.” Dunn followed by lofting a high fly to right on a 1-1 pitch that just cleared the wall for a two-run homer. Dunn entered the game with a .167 average and mired in a two-for-37 slump. “It was the third fastball away in a row,” Crow said. “That’s just bad pitch selection. It’s easier to get him out on fastballs in. If you let him reach out over the plate, he’s got a lot of pop." Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/04/29931...l#ixzz1RCmt1rTH

QUOTE (MAX @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 10:27 PM) Its far from it, in my opinion. All of the time based sports have worse endings that drag on forever. Like, downing the ball in football or fouling for the last three minutes in basketball. Its not even the most boring in baseball, either in my opinion. Much more exciting than watching a team go 1-2-3 down by 16 runs. I think they meant for an ending to a "tie" contest in any major sport to award victory to one team or the other. Yes, I realize some sports like soccer or hockey can end in ties (before the playoffs).

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 4, 2011 -> 10:16 PM) It's the nature of the business. Not every FA is going to perform to their history. It's always a gamble. I don't fault KW, Epstein or any GM that takes a risk by signing a guy. We got Dunn at market or below market rate. I will never complain about a GM for pulling the trigger. Now, if they pull a Werth and sign a marginal good player for way over market value and he fails, you're a moron. The GM gets the best players available to win. If the players don't perform, it's not the GM's fault. Imagine how people would react if Cashman was our GM... As long as he came along with the Yankees' budget.

Minus the speed or 30+ SB potential.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110704/COL0...dyssey=nav|head Look at what Knapp has done. Their bullpen's an absolute mess, but you have to blame Dombrowski more. Verlander's become the best pitcher in the AL (which he credits largely to Knapp), they're getting tons of mileage out of Brad Penny and nobody projected Phil Coke to be a starter, let alone pitch that well as a starter. Scherzer and Porcello were never going to be without their growing pains. This is like the White Sox firing Cooper because of Edwin Jackson's disappointing results in 2011. It all goes back to the GM.

Pasqua struck out way too much for the comparison to hold merit. Viciedo figures to hit in the .270-.315 range. Pasqua was pretty much all or nothing.

http://www.heavethehawk.com/Hawkisms.html That's a pretty darned good list. Forgot about Matt Abattacola. "Stretch, stretch, stretch" has to be right up there. Dadgummit. He's up there cutting and slashing. (Or was that Paciorek?) I can't remember if it was Warren The Deacon Newson or Paco Martin. What was the one he always used when Ozuna was up or running through the bag throwing his arms out and calling himself safe? I love to watch Ray run.

Hopefully we have Mark back next year at a more reasonable price. By the way, can we honestly actually say that Adam Dunn is worse than John Lackey? Epstein's had his share of clunkers like Lackey, Dice-K, Jenks, etc. Drew has never lived up to that contract either, solid but never close to the greatness he had the ability to be.