caulfield12

Bobby Cox would leave the National League and take over the worst team in baseball? You'd have to be someone like Larry Brown (NBA) or Bobby Valentine or Showalter, someone with an ego and hubris bigger than even Ozzie's to think that you could right the ship by your mere presence. Davey Johnson also comes to mind. But there's no way in hell it would be Bobby Cox. Torre? 5% chance at best.

1. 95% of it is on the players 2. There are very very few instances of coaching seasons mid-season having any demonstratable effect (McKeon in FLA comes to mind) 3. 2005 (handling the near-collapse), 2008 and the 26-5 run from last year buy Ozzie the benefit of the doubt. 4. Theoretically, there's too much talent for the White Sox to keep playing this bad defensively. 5. How many coaching/managerial changes have happened in April or May of a baseball season? 6. Dunn and Rios are/were recovering from injuries, Beckham's totally lost (along with Thornton) and we don't have Peavy back. Juan Pierre isn't THAT bad. Nor is AJ. And Sergio Santos is THE MAN. 7. Look at the back of their baseball cards... 8. Chris Rongey (playing GM in post-game yesterday) said he'd do nothing if he was KW.

It was worse from 2003-2008 or 2009. During that time, you had the feeling the Cubs might actually go all the way. This year's team very well might have a better record than the Sox (still not likely), but I can't see them making the playoffs. Not yet. Give it another month and a half. Let's see where both teams are respectively.

The Twins were 9-15 in April, 2006. The only question is where are our Sox verions of Santana and Liriano going to come from? Gardy's solution: We start tomorrow at 0-0!!!! Really? This is the solution? I wish my boss would think like that when we have a bad day at the office. I guess things change when you make millions, and only work 6 months a year... How can Justin and Cuddy keep cashing those checks, and still sleep at night. $15mill and $10mill for those two, and Gardy can't call them out for playing like Punto? I have said it before, when you are small market, you have to have your horses perform, because you can only afford two or three, the rest of the roster will be AAA players. Joe, Justin and Cuddy are giving us nothing, nothing at all. $50mill/yr for those 3, OMG.... REFUND!!!!!!!!! startribune.com/sports

Speaking of the worst case scenario. I guess it's not having a crowd of over 26,000 again except for the Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox. Indians win yet again in the bottom of the 13th. Orlando Cabrera tonight (no walk off Grand Salami) after Leyland walks two batters intentionally to load the bases with one out and a runner on 3rd. Indians are really executing well with bunts and all facets of the game. 9 games back and falling like a stone.

Well, that's another "plus" on the Joey Cora managerial resume. Maybe the worst baseball of the season from an overall perspective during this four game stretch. Was 2010 really THIS bad the first 6-8 weeks? I don't remember it being like this....frustrating, lack of offense, but not every aspect of the team falling apart at the seams.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) I think Rios will turn it around soon. Didn't you already declare the season over? LOL. Maybe it is, who knows. Indians have a chance to win it in the bottom of the 13th. Let's see what Rongey's callers have to say tonight. We're all gluttons for punishment.

Kansas City leading the Twins 11-2. The only pleasure I have left these days is reading the Minneapolis Star Tribune and reading the message threads there after another loss. They're better than our game threads. The Astros just passed us with a win, so for tonight it's the White Sox, Twins and Padres fighting it out for worst record in MLB. Sox fans don't have the patience to go through a 2 or 3 week stretch of bad baseball. 4 or 5 years minimum of it, and I think SS2k5 may be on to something if its full blown, and most will walk away until they can buy playoff tickets again. Well, the Cubs aren't doing much better. Their ticket sales are slumping, too. So it's not an impossible situation. I always go back to how things felt at the end of 2007. Total apathy, a bit of excitement about Fields and some for Owens after he had four or five hits against the Twins, but it was BLEAK BLEAK BLEAK. It just took that one offseason to turn things around. Things are a lot more complex this time, but there are some similarities. It will be VERY interesting to see the reactions of the Pohlads in Minnesota (with the new stadium there) and JR going forward if this continues for another 2 weeks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) I picked 20 years on purpose. The late 80s into the early 90's were horrible years where the teams sucked and no one went to the games. Sox fans are already infamous for being bandwagon fans, and if all of the players got traded off, it isn't a big leap of faith to expect crowds to drop back into Cleveland Indians range because there is a history of it on the southside. Heck people are already swearing off going to games. Can you imagine that minus all of the star players, and a couple of ninety loss seasons later? I have history on my side. YOU have your feelings. The new stadium and the talent of those early 90's teams, 1990-94 wasn't GREAT attendance wise but it wasn't anything close to horrible. Most of the 60's, 70's and 80's, brutal, sure. That mid to late 90's youth movement took a long time to bear fruition in 2000 as well.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) FWIW the sox scouts believe Flowers has made major adjustments and will get the majority of at bats at catcher in 2012. Now I understand if you don't have much faith in the scouting staff right now So they're just going to eat $6 million for AJ's contract next year? I guess it only "averages" $4 million per season, but we can't afford to go into a rebuilding period eating contract after contract.

Guaranteeing Thornton, AJ and Teahen those contract numbers for multiple years might be the end of the KW era. At least it SHOULD be. Especially the last two guys. Along with Linebrink. And Pierre. And Peavy. And Rios. And destroying Gordon Beckham.

DJ has a good theory. The White Sox are making so many mistakes behind him defensively, he just tries (Thornton) to "take the bull by the horns" and strike them all out. But when you try too hard to strike someone out, you actually start to lose velocity from your normal, fluid delivery.

So much for trading Matt Thornton. LOL. This entire team needs to be lobotomized so they can't THINK at all.

"This is where the fans will boo. Can't blame 'em. This is ugly." Darrin Jackson "That's just ugly." AGAIN. AJ is too tired? Boo hoo. AJ basically has had a large part in costing us 2 games now. Dunn actually did a good job keeping Andino off 3B.

Royals also leading the Twins by 1 going into the 8th. Tiggers and Indians tied in the 11th. 9 games back already? Almost at the 9.5 "low tide" mark from 2010.

13.50 ERA for Gonzalez, but obviously a former closer with the Pirates and potentially a K for Dunn. Which MIGHT be better than a double play ball.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:47 PM) Come on Adam, lift and launch! Are you related to Elaine Benes? This is only funny if you watch Seinfeld, btw.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:37 PM) It wasn't a great swing, but it's a hit 95% of the time. It was just unlucky that Andino made a great play on it. Jam shots and ground balls up the middle happen all the time. If that ball got through, I gaurentee people would say "There ya go Alex! Finally". But no, so instead it's extreme negativity. This board is seriously the biggest downer. Can't wait to get drunk tonight and not be depressed by this s***. It's more depressing here than it is watching this team play. But isn't alcohol also a depressant? By definition, you're deliberately depressing yourself in order to escape from being depressed! Having experienced the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's as a White Sox fan, you just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel with the Twins and West Coast swing looming. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet on this season, that's insane, but if they just get manhandled on the road and swept two in a row by the Twins, it will be even more of a miracle recovery than the Sox last season. The ONLY way we come back then is if the entire division falls apart and comes back to us instead of us catching them. It happened in 2003. The problem is always the Twins. 26,000+ in attendance tonight. Pretty amazing, but it's fireworks Saturday, their one tried and true attendance generator. Alexei, have yourself a game!!!

Unless you consider Quentin high-priced. I'm really worried about Beckham, though. Maybe it's time to send him to the minors. The problem is do we trust the hitting coach in AA or AAA to fix Gordon? More importantly, how does Gordon feel? His family? He's a VERY confident kid. That's one of the main reasons Ozzie agreed to stick with him last year. At some point, they have to try a different strategy and rebuild him just like Tiger Woods has deconstructed and reinvented 3 swing changes in the course of his career. Just not the same player we saw in 2009 and the second half last season.

Cue the "well the Cardinals, Astros and Rockies and about 3 other teams in major league history came back from being 8 games under .500 or 10 GB in standings" If it was an NFL season, it would be only 2-3 games, if NBA/NHL, only 14 games and the equivalent of a 6-8 record. ETC. I'm going to be tired of hearing about that 26-5 streak from last year being the reason to be patient...or the Twins being in the same position. They're in just as much, if not more, trouble than the White Sox going forward. Even Greg Walker would mess up Roy Hobbs or Josh Hamilton.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:06 PM) It's not the idea of just building from within, because they'll never do that alone. But we will NEVER learn the value of developing a system unless we're forced into it. If knocking down the team, having 5-6 years of putrid baseball forces them to fix their faults I'll accept it. Because when it begins to turn around and this team begins competing, the payroll will increase but we will also have the benefit of a quality system to offset the salaries of more expensive players. It happened in the 80's and late 90's. Reinsdorf has been through it at least twice. The question is whether he feels KW and Ozzie are the right guys to do it. I find it hard to believe that he would NOT believe in KW but would think Rick Hahn (or Buddy Bell) would be the clear choice. They need to change the entire organizational philosophy if this is going to work.

Everyone has to remember that with the current revenue structure in baseball, the White Sox enjoy a significant advantage in being able to ramp up the payroll quickly when it's necessary or justified. 2005 showed you can win the World Series with a $65 million dollar payroll. It's when we spent $90-$130 million on the payroll since then that the team's lost its hunger a bit, drive, desire, whatever you want to call it. I think you're seeing the same thing happening with the Twins. You don't want a team of all "cast-offs" trying to prove themselves to the world (the Carl Everetts and AJ's and El Duque's and Pods and Hermansons), but you have to have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder...mixed with a younger core of players hitting their prime and the veteran leadership. With the broadcasting and ancillary revenues, advertising/marketing advantages in Chicago...it's not just about parking/concessions/souvenirs/ticket sales. That's just one stream these days, and over time, becoming less and less important with the Regional Sports Networks and WGN/superstations. A rebuilding effort is fine if it leads to a championship caliber team for 3+ years. What's not fine is being the Royals/Pirates/Mariners/Padres/Marlins/Nationals/Orioles (although with their two marquee draftees healthy, they could be dangerous). Cleveland and Colorado had similar fan support in the 90's and early 00's. Look how both franchises have done since then. The Rockies reinvented their organization and the fans have come back, especially with the 2007 season.

Hey, Eight Below wasn't bad!!!

Gavin Floyd on August 11th, 2007 First 6 starts with the White Sox (Sox 1-5 in those games, Floyd 1-2 individually) 24.3 IP, 39 H, 23 ER ERA 8.51

A lot of the critics are praising Fast Five, but I thought the first one still is definitely better. In many ways, I also preferred the fourth movie of the series as well. (Poor Lucas Black and Tokyo Drift, everyone forgets that movie even happened now). Tego Calderon and Don Omar (two reggaeton rap artists) don't add much. Heck, I don't even know where they came from. It felt a little too much like one of the Ocean's 11 movies, mixed with the Italian Job. And adding so many cast members and throwing them together, somehow the story felt a little too forced or not quite cohesive. The action sequences were quite good, but it still felt a bit "talky" to me. The Rock/Vin Diesel "love affair" thing was cute for awhile, but that was a bit too much. Even the villain (Joaquin de Alameida) was much better in the Harrison Ford/Jack Ryan "Clear and Present Danger" flick from almost two decades ago.