caulfield12

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 27, 2011 -> 06:48 AM) If Adam Dunn doesn't come out of it, then the White Sox are simply the unluckiest team in baseball. No other way to say it. I'm not so sure you can say they were unlucky with the Peavy and Rios moves. Those were huge gambles 95% of other GM's wouldn't have taken. Same thing with signing Teahen to the long-term deal when it wasn't even necessary (perhaps the ending hasn't been written to that move). If Dunn doesn't produce this year, it will be blamed on his adjusting to a new league, better competition, pitchers with different tendencies of attacking hitters vis a vis the NL, health problems, etc. So far, they've been pounding him with fastballs ever since the microsurgery, but the odds of that HAVE to turn around at some point, don't they? Of all the gambles which went against us, the one with a similar probability of working out (but didn't) had to be Nick Swisher's 2008 offensive flop and resulting alienation from the entire organization, from Guillen on down.

The funny thing is that Phil Rogers a day or so ago specifically pinpointed the trade of Vazquez after 2008 as one of the main reasons for the deterioration of the pitching staff since 2008. Lillibridge says, "Take that!" I don't think in Javy's entire 3 year career with the White Sox there's one moment I'll actually remember with any amount of fondness. More like exasperation. Sure, Flowers, Gilmore and Rodriguez might never do a thing for the major league roster, but just that one moment, KW and the scouting staff must have felt a brief moment of jubilation and vindication. Perhaps Lillibridge has reinvented himself after playing CF for Washington State and making his mark so dramatically again last night. Then again, even D. Wise had his moments in the ALDS against the Rays, a walkoff homer and "The Catch."

Unfortunately, I didn't see either of Lillibridge's catches live, but the pounding of the turf, Santos' reactions as well as Jeter (he had to be saying something like "you've got to be s***--- me" or words to that effect) and A-Rod too, simply priceless. I agree the ball hit by Orlando Palmeiro might have been the most memorable...but I still think the play into the stands before that was equally important.

I didn't want to include the Juan Uribe catch down the 3B line into the stands because that would end up getting 90%+ of the votes. Hopefully I haven't left out any, just going off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a play or two from Alexei Ramirez or Juan Uribe during the regular season that would rank up there. AJ Pierzynski's play against Josh Paul on the ball in the dirt would rank up there as well, certainly the smartest/headiest play.

I saw a figure quoted that the White Sox would have to average 33,000 per game (maybe it was SouthSideSox.com?) in order to "break even" with the current payroll? Where did that come from? Williams? JR? Does anyone actually believe it?

QUOTE (joeynach @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) This I believe to be true. And I believe guys like Juan Gonzalez and Gary Sheffield got away with this and had great careers is becuase they had amazing upper body strength (steriods) and/or god given talent in generating bat speed (hand eye coordination). Don't forget Julio Franco. He used one of the heaviest bats in baseball too, well into his 40's.

What I don't understand is why we acquired Juan Pierre in the first place if he was beyond the point he could actually steal a base or two from the 7th inning onward without being bunted over? Isn't the point of Pierre that he would actually be able to steal with a 75-85% success ratio, THEN you have three legitimate shots to drive him instead of just one or two? As for the Twins changing their style of play, of course. They've gone from having a tepid offense and great fundamentals/team speed/defense over the last decade to one that mirrors the White Sox in many ways. And Gardenhire has really struggled managing "non-Twins system" players like Delmon Young, numerous times trying to trade him since he was acquired for a plethora of different reasons. The identity of the Twins was always having less talent but not beating themselves and having one of the best bullpens in the game on a consistent basis, as well as pitchers like Santana, Liriano and Radke who MADE you beat them. That Piranha identity's been lost and they've having a difficult time adjusting both to their ballpark but also their increased payroll and expectations. And perhaps all those playoff failures are weighing on them for the first time. If you look up and down that roster, the only player who fits in the "old Twins" mode is Denard Span, and he strikes out way too much. Remember when they had Koskie, Guzman, Rivas, Mientkiewicz, Stewart, Hunter, Jacque Jones and AJ? Those teams flat out scared you to death with their gloves, speed, execution, fundamentals and you could never, ever beat Hawkins/Guardado/Romero/Rincon/Nathan/Crain (until 2007-2009) down the stretch. You had to bludgeon them to death offensively and hold on for dear life to get a win, usually at USCF. Managers like Scioscia and Maddon manage their teams in the way that's most effective for the players they have...I just think Ozzie is too stubborn sometimes to adapt because he experienced too much success too soon in his managerial career. If you look at someone like Torre or Bobby Cox, the beginning of their managerial careers, their teams were below average to average at best and they got better and better as time went on and they learned on the job. You could say the same thing about LaRussa. It usually takes being fired one or twice before a manager figures it out. Or Francona, look at his career trajectory. He was managing Michael Jordan not so long ago and taking the long bus rides. I really don't see how Tony Pena (the former catcher), Sandy Alomar or even Omar Vizquel could be worse as managers at this point. Yes, we've faced a stretch of very good pitchers, yes Dunn's coming back from an appendectomy, yes the offense was alive for 9 games, etc. But none of that's changing the fundamental nature of momentum of this season, and that's the fear that perhaps this team has forgotten how to win and is scared to watch the bullpen blow another lead in a close game. Hopefully Santos has the cojones to get the job done.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) That's not a bad post when you read it closely. The problem is that Teahen, Pierre and Dunn (or Rios, or Beckham) have absolutely no value at the moment. I'm assuming the other pitcher(s) you're dumping is someone like Pena, Ohman or Thornton. It's like trying to sell shares of Titanic or Cunard Lines when everyone knows the ship's already sinking. Not the best of business practices. The devil is in the details. Over the last two or three seasons, every GM in baseball wanted to get their hands on Quentin (2008 and again in 2010), Alexei, Beckham, Thornton, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle (playoff contenders), Dunn (before his appendectomy), Konerko, Rios (first half of 2010), Santos or Sale. Think of it like the mortgage holders who are underwater. Do you just leave your keys in the mailbox and walk away or assume your investment will never turn around and instead of selling for 60-75 cents on the dollar, you end up selling for 20-30-40? As we all know from 2007, if the White Sox had dumped Buehrle/Dye/Konerko/Thome at that time, 2008's rebound wouldn't have been possible. For those desiring a team of DeAza, Viciedo, Mitchell, Lillibridge, Milledge, Morel, Flowers, Beckham (trade the bum!), Sale, Santos, etc., the effort might be there (not sure about Milledge ever coming around), but the patience of the fanbase at this point after a decade of "contending" or "above average" teams?

The Yankees have won 13 of these teams' last 16 meetings in the Bronx. A visit to Yankee Stadium could make an already horrendous road trip even worse for Chicago (8-14). The White Sox have dropped 10 of 11 overall and six of seven on their 11-game swing. Chicago got outscored 21-3 in a weekend sweep at Detroit, suffering shutouts in the last two games. The White Sox lost 3-0 Sunday, extending their scoreless streak to 20 innings. Chicago is batting .193 over the last 11 games. Adam Dunn went 0 for 3 with one strikeout Sunday, dropping his average to a season-low .145. The veteran slugger has two hits and 15 strikeouts in his last 30 at-bats. "Nothing works," manager Ozzie Guillen said. "I'll keep plugging guys in and hope things come around, but now every day is like rewinding a movie and watching it again." While their offense is slumping, White Sox hitters have had success in the past against A.J. Burnett (3-0, 4.37 ERA). Burnett has lost his last two starts against Chicago, giving up 16 runs and 18 hits in eight innings. However, Dunn is 3 for 14 with five strikeouts against Burnett. Phil Humber (1-2, 4.42) will start for the White Sox, seeking to avoid losing a third straight start. The right-hander allowed a season-high four runs in 5 1-3 innings of a 4-1 loss to Tampa Bay on Wednesday. In the rotation in place of the injured Jake Peavy, Humber has received just four total runs of support in three starts. Read more: http://nydailynews.stats.com/mlb/preview.a...0#ixzz1KdfUQH1S

In some ways, I actually liked the low-budget FROZEN over 127 Hours. The latter was a great performance by Franco, but it's not something I would ever want to watch again. FROZEN at least keeps you guessing.

Chicago White Sox From 2007 to 2009 the first pitch for White Sox home games was scheduled for 7:11 p.m. as part of a sponsorship with convenience store chain 7-Eleven. After that contract expired, games were returned to their prior start time of 7:10, and this year the White Sox ought to move forward the remainder of their home games by far more than one minute. Through three weeks, Chicago is 1-6 in night games but 6-5 in day games. The club is in the middle of a seven-game losing streak, and though they won't actually change their entire home schedule, it may be time for a drastic shakeup of another kind -- maybe by shuffling the lineup and dropping struggling Juan Pierre and Gordon Beckham out of the top two spots. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writ...l#ixzz1Kd426jIl White Sox dropped from 8th to 26th in Power Ratings, Indians 2nd

http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/moore/arti...ime-1350834.php

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:54 PM) We are averaging 3.7 runs a game since opening day's outburst. That's almost the bottom 5 in the league. In all honesty, the offense was even worse the first 6-8 weeks last season. But the pitching, particularly Garcia....kept us in it. And our bullpen and defense were much better as well.

Where the hell is KW? He's been pretty quiet throughout this streak. You know he won't be able to avoid the limelight in NY. Or maybe he's better off hiding in an undisclosed location and waiting for Ozzie to say something to distract the media away from the 10 out of 11 slide.

We didn't get a hit before two outs in the fourth inning the first two games. We keep letting first pitch fastballs fly by as called strikes from a fastball pitcher in Scherzer (Yes, that means you Mark Teahen...and when you want him to strike out, he hits into a double play!!) All runs scored on solo homers by Quentin (2) and Konerko. BA with RISP is non-existent. Morel is completely in a fog, and Beckham and Rios train wrecks were hid by their being on the bench temporarily. If not for Danks, I think 90% of AAA and AA rosters would have a good chance of beating this Sox team with the line-up we sent out there today.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:33 PM) We're not paying Juan Pierre all that much. Teahen might be unmovable, but caring about $5 million is stupid. Konerko and AJ are playing for us basically earning the same amounts that other teams offered them last offseason, and frankly, AJ is looking better at the plate than he did last year (although he's got a low OPS, he just hasn't homered yet). We're paying Juan Pierre $7 million this season. Last year, he was only $3.5 million. Throwing away $12+ million is what's causing us to have to think about trading Danks or Quentin (eventually, if things continue on this path). Let's not forget Linebrink as well. So that's basically $15 million.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:35 PM) Why would you trade anyone for nothing in return. Every loss we suffer through and this is inevitably what we see posted. It's early folks and this team will snap out of it. The same reason we traded Ray Durham for Jon Adkins. To save money. Even Michael Cuddyer and the Twins are saying it's not an excuse to say "it's early" anymore.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) Although MLB doesn't publish official numbers so things are a little opaque, you can take it from the yearly Forbes published numbers. Here's reality...Forbes published that the Sox were $26 million in the black last season, and then suddenly the Sox went out and boosted their payroll by just about $25 million. Although they're not publishing everything, that's telling me that the Forbes numbers are pretty darn accurate. They're not going to lose money on this team. If they get in danger of really losing money because they're at the bottom of the Central on June 15, they'll ship enough people off to cover the potential loss. You also have to consider that while we got $4+ million when David Wells went down in 2001, the amount of insurance for a pitcher with Jake Peavy's history has to be at least $2-3 million in additional payments per year. Heck, with all the pitching injuries and "babying" of superstars these days, I wouldn't be surprised if it was $4 million. At least that's what I would charge if i was AIG or Lloyd's of London.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) Let's be honest though...if Dunn ever resumes hitting like Adam Dunn...there are possibly only 2 guys on the roster you really look at and think "Unmovable", and that's Rios and Peavy. Rios could easily make himself moveable again, he did last year, and Peavy isn't hurting the team in salary if there's insurance on his contract. Ummm....Mark Teahen and Juan Pierre say hello. Probably AJ Pierzynski as well. You might be able to dump Buehrle's contract for nothing in return. I don't think Konerko's going to be moveable without sending a financial subsidy along in return. Just depends on a contending team having an injury there....but even with an injury, taking an aging 1B at this stage in his career is a big risk for any organization because of the multi-year implications down the line.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) Keep a couple details in mind...the Chairman probably made $20 million last year with a struggling team, and he basically committed that $20 million to the roster this year. If the attendance figures come in similar, he's at break even. If there's a drop in attendance, that'll push him towards losing money...but there's also a possibility that there may be insurance dollars coming in again if the Sox hold a policy on Peavy, which has been rumored ever since we traded for him. Where does that figure come from? $20 million? You said they hadn't been under 1.6 million since 1999, but there's no way they draw over 1.85 million this year if they don't at least get back to .500.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:18 PM) At least Thornton looked solid. Threw a TON of sliders. I think I only saw 4 fastballs, and everything else was sliders. I was going to say at least that will increase his trade value. Someone will want Crain or Thornton. I guess at SOME point this season, the Sox will get hot again, make us ALMOST believe to the point where these comments look silly. Then we'll face Minnesota again. Well, at least having lost 9 in a row now to Detroit, it can't get any worse. We usually have played well against the Tigers, which is the scary thing. It's the Indians and Royals who have caused trouble recently.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) Sox on pace for worst start since 2001, they were 7-15. Finished 83-79. What was our record last year at this time? Last year, we went to NY with a 9-14 mark and lost 2/3. 10-16 after 26 games. We'll be lucky to be 8 games under .500 when we come home this Friday.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) Not that I'm saying that it should happen, but if they lose this game and get swept or lose three of four to the Yanks, I got a feeling that either Walker or Ozzie is going to get whacked. Changing Walker out won't matter. I think the first consideration is whether a managerial change BEFORE a possible firesale is going to make any difference...to me, it's worth a shot. You'd hate to see them go down this season without trying everything possible. KW knows that the Twins are only 1/2 game ahead of us...this NY series and how we respond will be a key determinant of how things go for the rest of the season. If we just lie down like we have for the last 13 games, it doesn't bode well for this season. Last year's run is almost a negative here (in terms of creating any sense of urgency), because there's the magical belief we can just magically turn it on again simply because a once a decade run happened last year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 02:07 PM) His ERA since his rookie year is 3.56, and that's been while pitching in a big pitcher's park. It's not worth 7/$120 to the White Sox, but that's the going rate for this caliber of pitcher. Then they're going to have to start charging $50 for upper deck tickets or they won't ever be able to afford him. Danks simply isn't the kind of player who puts fannies in the seats like a Braun or Fielder.

Danks hasn't ever gotten run support by his teammates, hard to blame him too much when you're pitching with no margin for error. 46-47 career, 3.9+ ERA. Is that worth $75-100 million? Not to the White Sox. We better beat the Yankees ONCE before facing Sabathia on Thursday or we'll be 8-18. Colon on Thursday, Nova on Wednesday, probably Burnett tomorrow. AJ's the type of pitcher we normally light up, but who knows these days. Caught stealing coming up on Pierre?