caulfield12

Well, it's pretty obvious to US that Santos is the choice...doesn't mean it will be to Ozzie, though. Now we're managing to ruin the confidence of BOTH Sale and Thornton simultaneously. I know, I know....they're not so great if they can't battle through adversity, yadda, yadda, but you just wonder what kind of pitchers both will be at the end of September. Sale has had two really rough outings now, too. Hopefully both these guys can get their fastballs elevated (in terms of velocity and not line drive altitude) as the weather heats up by at least six-eight inches.

Well, on the plus side, we're still on a pace (even with a loss) for 96 wins and 67.5 blown saves.

Liriano getting lit up for the third start in a row. His FB has been off 2-4 MPH so far from last year's consistent 94. ERA hovering around 9.00 and a return to struggled with command again, as well. 5-1 Royals in the top of the 4th. Of course, in years past, 85% of the time the Royals would blow those leads to the Twins the last decade.

Is there any message board for any sports team in the world with more resultant activity and posting relating to team wins rather than losses? If there is, I would love to see it.

Does DeAza legitimately have more of a future than Danks? I suppose that Danks would actually see better arms/stuff in AA, who knows? Not so sure about that. If anyone will suffer in PT, I would guess it would be Gartrell. Not that he deserves it, based on his accomplishments the last couple of seasons versus Danks, but I would be hard-pressed to believe the organization would consider him to be a possible replacement for Quentin. The writing is seemingly already on the wall with his older brother not having a future with the organization unless something miraculous and precedent-setting happens with Reinsdorf, but from an outsider's viewpoint, there's no reason to believe the "kinship" between Danks and Reinsdorf comes close to the ones with Konerko and Buehrle.

QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) Clearly the only gambles worth taking are the ones that work out, the rest are stupid managerial decisions. You can't trust your closer to close games, so keep in your starters. The manager destroys arms by having the guys work too many innings. Players want managers that will pull them right before disaster. Players want managers who will trust them to do their jobs. There are a long list of managers who are loved and respected by their fanbase. OK, I can only think of one, and that is probably wrong, Tony in St. Louis. Not so much anymore with LaRussa. Plus, his prickly and egotistical personality doesn't sit well with most...when he's winning, they love it, but that hasn't been as often recently. I think Joe Maddon with TB and Scioscia with the Angels have to be right up there...although Scioscia definitely has his detractors, too. Francona's won 2 World Series championships, but everyone knows how unforgiving the Boston media has a propensity to be. Ron Washington and Bruce Bochy have had their trying moments as well, for different reasons. Detroit's fanbase has been HYPER critical of Leyland, although I bet 60-65% of SoxTalk would flip him for Guillen straight-up (no Miggy Cabrera or Hanley Ramirez coming our way).

Ozzie was a great "in-game/tactical" manager in 2005 and somehow he's lost it now? That team only blew 2 leads in the 9th inning in the ENTIRE first half of the season...heck, it might have been even longer, I didn't research the second half. But the point is that Ozzie HAS TO TRUST the guys on his roster. We all know the shape of our minor league system and the lack of depth down there. He basically said as much, that he had to put Ohman back out there in a one run game (when logic would have dictated Sale or maybe Santos) because the manager and team have to believe that guy will be able to "man up" and get the job done, throw strikes, get ahead in counts, etc. If Ohman would have blown that one run lead, this message board would have EXPLODED, almost!!! As Thornton said, Juan Pierre is one of the most hard-working, professional players in all of MLB. It's not like he INTENDED to make those mistakes. Pierre and the entire team know how Thornton will end up getting grilled more than they will...the casual baseball observer merely sees THREE blown saves when they look at his stat line. Are we a 10-0 team? Obviously not, because we had that miracle comeback against Soria, things always tend to balance out over 162 games. The Indians aren't going to continue to play like the 2005 Sox (24-8 out of the gate) either. And, we can take solace in the fact that the Twins and/or Tigers aren't off to incredible starts where we're playing catch-up the entire season and burning out simply fighting to get back to first. Obviously, we SHOULD be 7-3 or 8-2, though. How many teams have led in every single game to start a season and suffered FOUR 8th or 9th inning blown leads? Heck, I don't think the Twins in 2006 did that in the entire season. Of course, having Joe Nathan or Mariano Rivera is a different animal than what we're dealing with now. As many are pointing out, if you can't trust Thornton to close out an anemic-hitting A's team AT HOME, then what situations can you use him in? Only with a 2-3 run lead and cross your fingers, like many Jenks saves the last couple of seasons, where there has to be a considerable cushion in order to survive the 9th, and even then, it often wasn't enough? The entire bullpen will come apart if the team and Ozzie stop believing in Ohman, Pena, Thornton, etc. We're at $128 million for our payroll. There's not an extra $3-5 million sitting around to bring in another veteran reliever, who, odds are, would be just as likely to be bad as good on a year-to-year basis. If we end up trading Viciedo (who makes B. Allen pale in comparison) for another version of Pena to secure the bullpen, this messageboard will explode again, and yet that might be necessary if these problems don't work themselves out in the first 6-8 weeks. Once the momentum or "storyline" of the Sox bullpen becoming unreliable/inconsistent/erratic starts to creep into every post-game interview, this season will be in serious jeopardy. We turned it around last year, but it wasn't enough. Thankfully, we have some cushion....but that cushion ends when/if Santos and/or Sale can't get the job done. As Ozzie said, he went through 3 closers in 2005, although in all fairness, Hermanson wasn't pulled because of ineffectiveness, it was more from injuries and Jenks emerged just at the right moment to breathe final life into the team, along with McCarthy. We also have Peavy returning that will breathe some fire into this team with his competitiveness, hopefully.

After last season and the early returns in 2011, I was thinking that maybe the White Sox system wasn't as inept as previously thought. If you took Gio Gonzalez (consistently hitting 92-96 MPH on Sunday)/Daniel Hudson/Clayton Richard/Brandon McCarthy and added in Buehrle AND finally Garland (we can take a "half" credit!) and Sale (based solely on potential as a starter), that's a relatively solid 6-7 guys over a decade. At least one every two years. (Yes, I know quite a few will argue about the inclusion of Garland as a Sox prospect or doubt that McCarthy will last with the A's IF/WHEN Harden he returns and even that Sale is too fragile and mechanically unorthodox to last as a starter). I'm sure the minor league experts could cite 5-7 organizations that have produced 10+ starters on Opening Day rosters (or the DL), but I'd guess we're somewhere between 15th and 18th in the majors in this category in that you'd "expect/predict" every organization, on average, to produce five starters that are on Opening Day rosters. Of course, the second part of this is the current lack of depth of our minor league system in this area (due to the Hudson trade and Sale being in the pen for now)...but it's not out of the realm of possibility another McCarthy/Hudson/DeLosSantos type will fly through the system and emerge. Which one of the four former White Sox pitching prospects, if any, would you trade John Danks or Gavin Floyd "straight up" for, based on their respective currrent contract situations (Floyd through 2012 and club option for 2013, Danks through 2012) Between Sale and Santos, would you trade either of them straight up for Gonzalez, McCarthy or Richard? Why/why not?

Sucker Punch...visually interesting, but horribly written, definitely wait and see after its left the multiplexes (if you're a HUGE Zach Snyder fan, because of the CGI/cinematographical aspects, you might give it a shot.)...I compare it to THE FOUNTAIN in the sense that it was a huge overreach by an ambitious director who USUALLY has a way of expressing his psyche in an interestingly "eclectic" manner Limitless...I really liked this movie, I've been a fan of his since Alias (Cooper), will be interested to see if HANGOVER 2 makes him a breakout star or if he takes a step backwards...Abbie Cornish was also in Sucker Punch, where she had a meatier role to work with (side note, seeing Jamie Chung in person walking down the street wearing the outfit she went out to fight the Nazi "zombies" and zeppelins in would be a close 2nd to the White Sox 2005 WS victory) http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/movies/b...oper&st=cse Inside Job...in all honesty, I preferred the fictional THE COMPANY MEN flick with Tommie Lee Jones, Affleck and Chris Cooper (I think it's perhaps from burnout on this topic, like Gulf War-themed movies other than The Hurt Locker and 3 Kings) No Strings Attached...I guess this movie has to rate either 2.5 or 2.75, depending on your feelings for Natalie Portman and Ashton Kutcher, I liked it a BIT more than I thought I would, but certainly wasn't overwhelmed

QUOTE (WinorDie88 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 06:12 PM) Yeah he did. I absolutely agree with you. It's total bs on Lopez's part. To be clear though, my comment about AJ was more referring to a thread a few days ago on here where someone posted a report from an insider that hardly anyone in our clubhouse liked AJ. It really baffles me on why that is. I watch him play the game and give interviews with the utmost courtesy and respect. This whole bad rep thing AJ has is starting to annoy me. I know one thing, he's got to be the starter or there's no point on having him on your club. It has seemed clear for a couple of years he had zero interest in mentoring Tyler Flowers and preparing him for a starter's role. I understand, all professional athletes have pride and want to start, but there's a more professional way of handling things. For every AJ or Michael Young, there's an Omar Vizquel or Juan Pierre (who has worked with Mitchell the last couple of spring trainings, especially in 2010).

QUOTE (WinorDie88 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 05:59 PM) I just don't get it. AJ sounds like a nice guy just by listening to his interviews. He's very modest and assertive. Nothing douchy about that. Didn't Lopez throw the bat towards Sale on his homer, after complaining about a pitch that didn't come all that close? AJ is always going to protect his pitchers, period. And why would Sale even try to hit Lopez in that situation? Makes absolutely ZERO sense, especially after the way the previous night's game ended for the Sox.

That's a big bounceback win for the Sox. Seemingly on a yo-yo so far this season with the hot start, collapses against KC and TB...but they've responded well and haven't let it affect them adversely. Humber stepped it up, and the defense played well. Fuld must have saved at least 4 runs for them in RF. However, it would be nice to see a 1-2-3 inning by a closer. Even Jenks did that occasionally, although not as much the past few seasons. Will be interesting to see if they hit Felipe Lopez with a pitch Sunday.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 11:33 PM) But you dont have 4-5 years of data of Thornton as closer, he hasnt been a closer. The entire premise of my argument is that being a closer is different than being a reliever, thus using reliever statistics are worthless when talking about his ability to close. You can make the same arguments about Dotel or Linebrink as closers versus set-up guys. Just because Linebrink was a GREAT set-up guy in San Diego, nobody ever thought he had the ability to be a great closer. He always struggled mightily with the Sox when he was used in the 9th or in tie games after Jenks had already been used.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 11:31 PM) Well it's official. According to box score, All of thornton's runs were unearned. Rosenberg has to have changed the hit/throwing error on Ramirez (Fuld's soft liner) to an error all the way. They took the unusual approach of even highlighting him in the press box. Seems that the radio and tv teams really don't like that guy so much with all the criticism Farmer and Hawk/Stone Pony give him.

QUOTE (scotty22hotty @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 11:06 PM) ugh 2 blown saves against two below average teams already... I hope this doesn't turn into another year of live or die by the bullpen. Especially with all of the FA bullpen help that was available. You hardly ever have great bullpens just by spending on FA's. Crain was great tonight, was close to great for most of last season...but you just never know from year to year. Linebrink was one of the best set-up guys in baseball for nearly a decade, too. They did get to the playoffs in 08 with big contributions from Linebrink (first half) and Dotel to a lesser extent, but it's a crap shoot and they definitely needed to add that DH to the offense. I remember the Orioles spending millions on 3-4 FA relievers and it blew up in their faces...I think it was Baez, Walker and Bradford?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 11:00 PM) I'll amend what I said. When you don't have a lefty closer and have two other capable lefty relievers, Ohman should not be in your bullpen. Edwards wasn't THAT great (although he was part of StickMan, right?)...but Radinsky was absolutely nasty before injuries and Hodgkin's Disease took their toll. Danks is reminding me more of Greg The Bulldog Hibbard and less someone who should be paid $16-17 million per year. WALKS!!!!

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:56 PM) If you're talking about somebody who has very little credentials as a reliever (like John Axford), then maybe it is fair to panic, but you're talking about one of the best relievers in baseball in the past three seasons. To say he simply doesn't enough to close a ball game when he has a career 2.93 ERA in save situations and a career 3.09 ERA in the 9th inning is one again, panicking. A sample size of 3 innings really doesn't tell you much about a reliever. I think people are going more by "looks," body language, their own assumptions (positive and negative) about Thornton as closer, with most having pre-conceived notions of his ability to do the job. Sometimes that ERA has been misleading, because he's given up a lot of runs over the course of his career that were inherited but not attributed to him. Do you have his inherited runners scored numbers with the Sox? I agree Ozzie and the team aren't panicking, but the fans and media definitely will be sounding the alarm bells. He's got to get right back out there tomorrow or Sunday and close another game or they'll have to shake things up for a week or two and see what happens. Minnesota and Detroit aren't off to great starts either, but the White Sox (before last year) are a traditionally front-running team that doesn't chase teams down in the 2nd half.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 09:43 PM) Those two runs we gave away due to bad base running came back to haunt us as well. Gotta stop giving up outs on the bases. Well, the time Morel was thrown out at the plate...95% of the time that ball doesn't bounce back directly to the catcher in that way, not at USCF. Really a bad break at the time when we had runners at 1st and 3rd with Beckham up and no outs.

Remember that maxim we always hear...."great pitchers pitch over mistakes"? You just had the feeling that even though he COULD have gotten out of the inning that it was going to get away from Thornton. Sale was in a similar situation earlier this week when he could have collapsed/imploded (after the blown two run lead in a previous game) and he manned up. There's always been something about Thornton (and not just because he basically throws one pitch) that has worried me as the closer. Of course, it's easy to say now, but there were quite a few reservations. And it's not like some LH hitters haven't touched him up. Personally, I'd go with Santos. And it sucks to kill some of the "buzz" this team was generating before the home fans in the early season.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:26 PM) Did we seriously commit two errors with two outs? I don't know how you can blame this on Thornton when that happens. No, the throwing error on Alexei was with only out out. Actually, both errors were with one out.

Really good teams hold late leads and also have the confidence to rally late in games. Our offense definitely has that ability, the defensive letdown was kind of flukey, but you just have to wonder how this bullpen can come together. Is Thornton's FB slow because of the weather and cold or is there something more serious going on?

QUOTE (stretchstretch @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:16 PM) I was sitting behind Paulie playing first at the AS game when McCann hit that ball off Thornton, and had a feeling at that very moment it was going to effect him And the homer he gave up to Thome as well.

I really think Santos or Sale needs to be the closer. Probably Santos, since Sale eventually will go to the rotation. They've already blown two games now in the first week when it took 86 to do that in 2005. The worst thing is breathing life into TB in a four game series when Humber's going tmrw...and there's no way I am paying John Danks $16-17 million a year.

Shirek's in the bullpen now? Nice to see Mitchell legging out a triple.

Why did Peavy only pitch one inning? He's already been pulled.