caulfield12

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 09:41 PM) Games that stick out in Sox-Twins lore for me in no order: 1. Jose Paniagua (we actually won that though) 2. Jamie Burke getting laid out 3. Game 163 4. Last Thursday 5. Tonight I vividly remember a game that Denny Hocking won with a walk off homer against Keith Foulke in the Metrodome. There was the one that Torii Hunter robbed a Carlos Lee homer. The one that Buehrle gave up about 7-8 runs in the first inning and I'm pretty sure we came back to win that one...must have been in 2005/06. Jeff Abbott with the game-winning hit to clinch the pennant in 2000. The Jenks/Carlos Gomez game from 2008 that looked like the nail in the coffin for the 2008 season. The Jenks blown save the Sunday after the All-Star break was even more of a blow to our chances than blowing so many opportunities against Liriano last week. That two game swing would have had the Twins at 3 1/2, but 1 1/2 and three straight brought them too close and they smelled blood in the water.

QUOTE (Jeremy @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 10:17 PM) Yikes, these Jackson over Hudson arguments are embarrassing: Yeah, the same weak league where our new ace Jackson posted an ERA over 5 this season? Arizona has an extreme hitters park and a porous defense, it's not so easy to pitch for that squad. Also, if we're going to discuss the difficulty of the hitters a pitcher is facing, shouldn't we be mentioning that Jackson has pitched exclusively against 28th and 21st best offenses in the majors since joining the Sox? This argument pretty much only works if you evaluate the entire trade based solely on the three (really, two of the three) starts Hudson had for the Sox this season and nothing else either he or Jackson has done in their careers. Is anyone serious willing to defend this approach to evaluating trades and or players? Of course we should consider players' performances prior to a trade - a few weeks is way to soon to judge a trade - but you can't do that by cherry picking a tiny sample size that supports your argument. You also have to look at Hudson's stellar minor league numbers and the fact that Jackson has only had one above average major league season. I don't see a lot of players signed at a relatively low cost. We have the 7th highest payroll in baseball, despite gaping holes at multiple positions, because we are paying large salaries to a number of players. The many trades Kenny has made where he ships off prospects making the minimum for well paid vets is a big reason for this. I'm not sure which teams have had success constantly dealing cheap young players for pricey veterans, with the possible exceptions of those with much larger spending power such as the Red Sox and the Yankees. Of those teams, even the Red Sox have placed an emphasis on promoting their draft picks to the big league club with Buchholz, Paplebon, Bard, Ellsbury, Lester, and Pedroia all drafted by Boston since 2002. The only White Sox draft pick from that time period that's contributing in the majors is Beckham. The only example of a really high priced player coming in from the outside, there are basically two, Rios and Peavy. If you look at the other big/ger contracts, like Jenks, Konerko, Buehrle and AJ, they don't really fit that example. Now you can add Pierre, Linebrink and Teahen (all players who could/should have been replaced by a good farm system) and that starts to show some of the roots of the problem. We also have Quentin, Ramirez, Sale, Santos and Viciedo that are bringing some younger players into the mix.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 11:06 PM) When we had Maggs and Frank we had a horses*** pitching staff and a horses*** defense. Moving to the NL for inferior baseball is a dumb. You want to beat the twins. 1.) Spend money on the draft and the international signing period. We spent less on bonus money this year than any other team. A team that has such a bad minor league system shouldnt worry about slot right now. Invest in the best talent possible to use for reinforcements or trade. 2.) Instruct players in the minors on how to play fundamental baseball. We promote flawed players all the time. See Jordan Danks. A player who's strikeout numbers in AA told a story that he needed some more time to cook. The twins instruct their players how to play fundamental aggressive baseball with the same message at all levels. 3.) Invest your money wisely. No 4 year deals for Linebrinks. No using your best trading chits for things that are short sided. Think with a single organizational philosophy. Sure I want to win the world series every year. But it isnt reality. 4.) You are in the American League. Make sure that the DH is actually someone who can hit. Your park plays for homers, make sure that you have guys who can do that. 5.) Ozzieproof the lineup, or ditch Ozzie. You cannot have crapy grindy players anywhere near this lineup. He will overuse them in the spirit of flexibility. 6.) Tell the players that sure its cold in April and May, but the meal money isnt as good in Charolette. So tanking the first two months of the season because your peter crawled up and hid doesnt work. Wear a jacket or a sweater. 7.) Try and prepare your players for the grind of the season. Having guys who piss down their leg year in and year out is sad. The twinks down piss down their leg. They bring kids up and they just plug in. We need to figure that out, and mimick it. The twins are a dangerous team right now. They have the minor league system and now a financial backing to build a dynasty. We need to rethink our approach. Because the slap a few retreads and pray on the futility of the division isnt going to work. Having drafted and developed Morneau, Mauer, Cuddyer, Kubel, Baker, Duensing, Slowey, Blackburn, Crain, Valencia, etc., might have something to do with it.

This is the most ridiculous post I've seen yet tonight. Maybe if the fans of the Cubs, Royals and Pirates were just more optimistic and held out even more hope and optimism, those teams would all get to the World Series. Maybe if the American people are all just more optimistic, it will turn the entire country around. Let's conveniently forget for one second that only 59% of eligible American males are currently employed... These are professional athletes making millions to play a kids' game. Did the Florida Marlins need to sell out game after game in 1997 and 2003 to have success? Perhaps the fact that those Marlins teams, or the Rays five years later...seemed to get so little support, it drove them in their desire to prove their detractors wrong. Ozzie's always saying the White Sox don't get enough support. Supporting a 4-20 mark against Minnesota after the ASB the last three years is like Cubs' fans dutifully sending their season ticket renewal packages back and hoping they'll actually win the World Series. The current White Sox model of running the organization is broken. It has to be changed, because insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...what's even more insane is making the plan to DH Jones and Kotsay, 75% of elementary school students could have identified that as a problem, or DeWayne Wise leading off and starting in CF last year.

Jenks the final game up in Minnie after the break Jenks in Seattle when we took the lead in extra innings The Sunday game in DET we blew but somehow managed to come back and win Two more against DET (Putz) One more against MIN (Thornton) That's a four game swing in the standings against the ALCD alone...in one month, when most teams will take 4-6 months to accomplish the same. The Twins lost 14 games to us, we've lost 8 1/2 back and falling like a lead balloon.

I'm still laughing at Ranger's comment that the Twins' pitching is not comparable to ours. It happened to Floyd, now to Danks, our two best pitchers this season, they both wet the bed in huge games, let's face it and be honest. Now we have to deal with Liriano and Pavano with Putz or Santos as our closer. Not the greatest of odds. Also, now 4-20 against the Twins in 08/09/10 second half play. Yes, that's 1 out of 6 ballgames played, a cool .167 winning percentage.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 11:20 PM) We scored 6 runs tonight. We do score off their pitching. As Ginger posted, we spotted them a 4-0 lead, came back to tie it, came back again to take the lead. No one in our pen can close out a game right now. It's as simple as that. Not much else to say. Yes, and no. Their bullpen came in from the 5th on and shut us down completely until Capps, and they still got the DP against Konerko, which most will feel was the key play of the ballgame. I know we took the lead, but it felt like we had to score there to win that game for some reason. The only surprise to me was not giving it up in the bottom of the 9th, that we actually scored and took the lead momentarily. Rauch has been the only one really struggling down there. Guerrier has pitched great recently (despite the 2-7 record) and Crain even better, perhaps the best he has ever pitched for Minnesota.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 11:11 PM) One inning and he's fine. It will be interesting to see how they piece the bullpen together next season. The Sun Times ran something today implying the Sox bullpen was worn down. That can't be good. They are used less than every other bullpen except two. And of course, Minnesota had the best bullpen ERA without Joe Nathan somehow. They lose Nathan, Neshek, Mijares, Reyes, Breslow, Rincon, etc. Doesn't matter. Even Glen Perkins gets us out. No doubt that Thornton and Putz have been overworked. You simply can't trust Pena and Linebrink, and most haven't trusted Jenks all season long. And that one inning for Thornton, he HAS to start it. The thing that Matt hasn't ever been that great at is coming on with multiple inherited runners in the 7th and 8th and getting out of it unscathed. He has a knack for giving up quite a few big hits, and not just the All-Star game. That said, I have 100X more confidence in Thornton than Jenks.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 11:04 PM) I refuse to watch ESPN for 24 hours now with the highlights, as well as the Favre stuff. Will someone please alert me if ESPN shows naked footage of a sex tape with Minka Kelly in it? Thanks! Hopefully it will be Minka Kelly, Erin Andrews and Eva Green from Casino Royale...that's about the only thing that could make these Twins disasters palatable. I still was 10X more upset when Jenks blew that game two years ago and we lost three in a row and possession of first place. That was a dagger through the heart, and a bit more unexpected. Now I'm acclimated to finding new and amusing ways of losing to Minnesota. You really have to laugh, because if you sit down and really think about it, you'll want to throw darts with mini-nuke warheads at any remaining Ozzie Guillen posters left that haven't already been torn down.

Who the hell is going to be the closer next year? Santos? I just don't think Thornton's cut out to be the closer...obviously tonight wasn't really his fault, he's been overpitched all season. I just think it would be better to have a closer with at least two consistent pitches, as good as Matt's fastball can be, it's not unhittable, especially when he gets behind in the count. Hello Liriano and Pavano. Great timing to see those two guys.

If they're going to lose like this, they might as well just end everyone's misery and get swept and let us go back to the way things were 2 1/2 months ago when we were trying to give KW some sort of direction or plan for next season. I said it 10,000 times in the preseason, everyone did, take Jim Thome and Orlando Hudson (no Teahen move) off this team and put them on the White Sox and we're ahead of the Twins by 5-7 games and they've probably had to make a costly mid-season trade to replace Morneau as well.

And Thornton's done for at least one game. What else is new? Did anyone actually expect Thornton to get through 3 separate innings? How many runners did we leave in scoring position? When's the last time we had a bases loaded hit against MIN? Last year?

0 for our last 7 with RISP It's almost like the Twins are taunting us. After the first inning, you want to give up...but you just know the White Sox will SOMEHOW stay in the game, only to have some kind of dreadful ending. It's like a train wreck or car accident. You just can't believe every time they find new and creative, yet refreshingly consistent, ways to lose against Minnesota.

Great, 0 for our last 6 with RISP. What else is new? Well, Pierre's been much better at this the last last two months, considering he was the worst in the majors in April/May, I guess it had to improve.

So much for the lead. You knew that would happen when you keep leaving the bases loaded time after time against the Twins. Here's where we see how well Gardenhire can (out)manage (Ozzie) his new bullpen for 4+ innings.

Well, let's hope that's not the high water mark for this game. We've had four chances now to take the lead and haven't been able to come through. Would Kotsay have STILL hit had he gone for 0 for 2 his first two at-bats? Probably!!!

I wish I had any confidence in Andruw Jones to hit a GS against Perkins, but I'm sure Ozzie will stick with Kotsay.

Danks isn't going to be long for this game without being able to throw something offspeed with more crispness. Mauer with warning track power in the new stadium...well, actually, part of it's because of his injuries surely.

Well, they were smart enough to go after Ramirez with a slider after the mound visit. Back to square one with this game. Danks with 66 pitches through 3, Baker at 76 through 4. Definitely not a Buehrle-paced game.

Well, you knew sometime this year AJ was going to run into one against the Twins. Center cut. Should have tried for Kotsay at home.

Kotsay halfway to the cycle. Well, at least he showed up this game. Nice for him...although you almost worry if he gets hot the last 6 weeks they'll end up keeping him around.

I just realized Mark Kotsay has one more homer than Mauer, and Beckham's tied despite his slump this season. Crazy.

Well, Minnesota answered defensively. Now let's take the lead here, Sox.

Of course, we have no shift against Thome but we're shifting to play Mauer like he's Thome. Yet he throws a change-up to Thome and speeds up his bat again.

Wow, Danks already has 51 pitches through 2 1/3rd. That doesn't bode well based on our bullpen performance the last 10 days. Nice play by Konerko, as usual, to save an infielder.