caulfield12

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 5, 2010 -> 11:44 PM) So that's basically Flowers/Hudson from our perspective. Except Hicks and Revere are more like Mitchell, being "huge upside" players with tons of athleticism. Gibson is thought by many to be a #1-2 or 2A type of starter on most MLB teams, whereas Hudson is more like a 4-5 guy or maybe a 3 at the very best. The Mariners have already had disasters with Johjima and Clement, they won't be in a hurry to botch another catching choice...heck, Miguel Olivo six years ago was yet another huge miss, as he was a key component in the Garcia deal.

The Twins have all the pieces to trump our offer, Kyle Gibson, Ramos at catcher (although injured/non-performing this year), Revere, Hicks, etc. Heck, they could trade Duensing/Blackburn/Slowey as part of the deal too and not miss a beat. If the Twins really want to go head-to-head with us, there's no way Kenny can beat that unless he gives up 2/3 (Hudson/Flowers/Viciedo) and Danks or Floyd. The problem is that the Twins won't have to weaken their major league roster as much as we would because of their much deeper system...and they wouldn't have to seriously damage their 2011-2013 chances either, because we're counting a ton on Hudson/Flowers/Viciedo all making major contribution in the coming years at cost-controlled prices. Things would be a heckuva lot easier if Beckham would have showed up to play and had not KW got an itchy trigger finger with not only the Teahen move (and duious extension) but also giving up prematurely on Viciedo at that position as well. Perhaps his play at 3B (so far) has been the most pleasant surprise so far to me about Dayan's brief major league stay.

The way he's going, Lillibridge might end up leading off one of these days and actually deserving it. Never saw this one coming....just ride him while he's hot. In the meantime, Beckham can sit on the bench, but if it gets to be a 2-3 week thing, they really should think about sending him down to Charlotte and see if he can rediscover his swing and confidence down there.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 5, 2010 -> 04:54 PM) I don't tell them what to think. But I'll take the word of those who watch every game. Brandon Inge is the Joe Crede of Detroit. Neither were consistent All-Star players, but both were premium fielders with some pop...Crede has the "Mr. Clutch" moniker, Inge is one of the most versatile and athletic players in the league. Inge isn't a BAD player by any stretch of the imagination, but he's far from consistent offensively and his salary is getting to be like Jenks', where he is no longer a clear bargain.

I wouldnt want Leyland. I would be curious to see how both the Twins would respond to Guillen (and for how long) and how well the White Sox would respond to Gardenhire. Personally, I think that we've overrated our own talent a bit sometimes and underrated the Twins...citing Gardy as the reason for their success. To many Twins' fans, it's STILL Tom Kelly's "system" and many in their fanbase are convinced Gardenhire isn't the man to lead them to playoff success. His historical lack of success is the thing that scares everyone up there, they're getting to be like Braves' fans, where they don't believe the team has what it takes to get out of the first round without Oswalt or Lee. The two true pennant races, 2005 and 2008, the White Sox triumphed in the end....coin flip luck or Rick Hahn's son or whatever you want to call it. 2006, the White Sox pitching staff just faded and Jenks wasn't healthy, there's not much any manager could have done to hold off the Twins and Tigers. Two times head-to-head, the Twins took out the Tigers, although DET obviously ended up in the World Series. So you can also say that you would rather have Guillen or Leyland in the playoffs than Gardenhire, hard not to argue that one. When everyone (myself included) gave up on the White Sox in 2007 (coming into 08) and then again in 2010, Ozzie was able to steer the ship to calm waters....now you can say that the players did it on both occasions, but I feel there's a lot more to it than that. 2009, if you want to blame Ozzie, that team just never jelled or had any type of identity, and not having a healthy Peavy for most of the 2nd half...and I don't think any manager or hitting coach could have straightened out Rios last year or Beckham in 2010.

Ramirez back up to a really really legit OPS for a SS, 738.

Alisay, YESSSSSSS!!!!! Not such a bad shortstop after all.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 5, 2010 -> 11:12 AM) Kotsay would likely play RF in that scenario. (Dunn + DeJesus) >> (Kotsay/Jones + Quentin) I agree. The problem is whether our budget does, too? If I was Washington, I would probably make that move...Quentin for Dunn, for sure. The question is what we'd have to give up to get DeJesus? You need a RFer or CFer in that scenario. The price is going to be pretty steep, Moore has looked pretty silly with some of his trades the last 2 years so he's going to be asking for a lot.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 5, 2010 -> 10:42 AM) Why does Putz figure into this equation? You're not trading any bullpen pieces. If I knew I was losing Putz, Jenks and then trading Santos, that would be too many pieces to replace.

Yes, but the Brewers wouldn't it. It also would depend (to me) on whether Putz was going to stay as the closer.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Na...?urn=mlb,252779 Quentin for Dunn? That makes absolutely zero sense, unless KW is replacing Quentin with another move, but where's he going to get another hitter with Quentin's POTENTIAL ability to stick in RF?

I don't think that the Brewers would trade their "franchise" player (along with Braun) for Danks. Danks is appreciated by all the GM's, scouts and true baseball fans, but he's not a marquee player like Fielder, IMO. It would be ballsy, but 1 1/2 years of Fielder for 2 1/2 for Danks, right? Unless you included another premium prospect from the White Sox (that would be Flowers or Viciedo), it's not getting done. Obviously KW can't give up two starters....and I'm a little dubious about Hudson replacing the stats of Floyd/Danks, too. I would guess it's something like Floyd/Danks, Santos (maybe) and Viciedo or Flowers for Fielder and one more hitter...not Hart, but someone. The other problem is we can't be sure Freddy will hold up the rest of the season, especially with the lingering questions about Peavy and Buehrle...although they SEEM healthy for the moment.

I do think one aspect of this is correct. We'd have to trade either Danks or Floyd, possibly Santos and one or two key pieces (Hudson/Viciedo/Flowers) to get it done. I'm still not convinced it's worth it...but this also seems with the pitching stars aligned to be the year we might have the best chance to win it all, compared to say 2011/2012/2013. It has really got to be gut-wrenching for the entire front office, like taking on Rios/Peavy and then having nothing to show for it....well, until this year. The other obvious problem is that the strength of this team, the pitching, is no longer a strength if u take one of those starters out and insert Hudson AND Garcia into the back end.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 4, 2010 -> 11:26 PM) I'll start believing as soon as we beat some AL teams... Plowing through the Braves and taking 2/3 from a sizzing hot Rangers team on a field we never play that well on, those are some nice indicators...as you said, we've got a long ways to go, and the Angels at home will be another good barometer. Only 3 teams have won a series at Minnesota so far, the Yankees and Rays being two of those teams, so ANYTIME you beat a team 14-15-16 games over .500 in the first half of any season 2/3 on their home field is a pretty big moral victory.

He's been over a .300 hitter with an 800+ OPS since first month of the season. He's obviously improved by leaps and bounds defensively in the last 4-6 weeks...for whatever reason. When I said "plus" hitter, I meant compared to the league average for that position. You won't find many shortstops who are in the Top 5 defensively and Top 10 offensively that are 28 years old and signed to such an affordable contract. I'd like to find another one that wouldn't cost our entire farm system to trade for.

Ramirez has quietly emerged as an All-Star shortstop and a "plus" offensively, especially for a middle infielder. We still have some dilemmas with Viciedo getting inconsistent playing time and a decision to make about giving at-bats to Beckham...as long as we're so close, you have to think they'll stick with Beckham, but the Minnesota plays the Indians, Orioles and Royals after taking on the Sox to begin the 2nd half, so any big decision might really go down to the July 31st deadline. Kotsay has actually been a pretty productive player over the last 20-25 games as well. Still, you'd like to see one superior bat who can take the role of Jones/Kotsay and lower the playing time of Mark because he'll probably wear down in July/August/September. Same with Vizquel. Anytime we can go 3-3 on the road (although you expect 2/3 in KC, not Arlington), it's a "victory" especially when you can play a very hot Rangers team to standstill on their own field. Right now, they've got two TOP 10 MVP candidates in Hamilton and Guerrero.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 3, 2010 -> 11:00 PM) Gallardo/Danks would immediately become the third best 1-2 combo in the NL behind Lincecum/Cain and Carpenter/Wainwright. It all depends on how willing they are to fill in the DH spot and how Flowers and Viciedo hit (along with Beckham putting up a 750-850 OPS and Quentin at 850-950, those are givens, in terms of us having to get that production to be competitive). In some ways, it's more logical to go for it all THIS YEAR rather than hoping on our prospects actually coming through and performing well at the big league level for the Sox. OTOH, it's obvious especially with Jones something like 3 for 40-something and less and less likely to get the steady at-bats he'd need to dig himself out of this slump...that we don't have the resources or minor league talent to get two bats unless we pretty much want to go for broke and deal at least 2 of our top 3 prospects (not counting Mitchell/Sale). I really think that the DBacks would at least ask for Flowers for LaRoche, and they don't need him with Montero, so that leaves them asking for Hudson or Viciedo in all likelihood, although they already acquired Brandon Allen and Chris Carter...not sure they'd take another 1B prospect from us.

Of all those names listed, the only logical one (for the White Sox) is taking a huge roll of the dice on Upton's character and the coaching staff being able to control him. It's not like Maddon is a difficult manager to play for, he's one of the best, better than Scioscia in my opinion because he doesn't micromanage and try to control every aspect of the organization, he spreads the credit around. Rios, his major major major flaw defensively is on balls hit over his head....balls he has to turn his shoulder and just run to a blind spot and "find" the ball again...other than that, he's pretty close to flawless out there. It has happened to him at least 5-7 times this season already. Not errors, but plays that should be made IMO. Sweeney just doesn't have the dominant range and speed/quickness for center, certainly he's a very good RFer though, same with Markakis.

Next year or in 2012? He's already said he won't be playing for any team besides the White Sox unless it's a "very, very special" situation. He also stated that he won't manage or coach in the minors, that he wants to join the coaching staff of an MLB team. (Maybe harder to do in light of the AJ Hinch fiasco). What do you think about him on our staff? Do you think Guillen would feel threatened? I can tell you this, I think he would be more respected than Joey Cora as the manager...and be able to help with some selected free agents as well. He has all the people skills in the world, the intelligence (baseball IQ), etc.

At least Alexei is leading the league in total chances. Not too much talk about moving him to 2B or trading him these days....or moving Beckham to SS.

Well, one way to look at it would be this.... We're currently 4-5 against KC and 4-8 against CLE, for a total of 8-13. If you swung us around to where we SHOULD be against those two teams (13-8 or 14-7), we'd be 13-15 games over .500 and in first place. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

The Indians traded Lee to the then-reigning World Series champion Phillies for Jason Donald, Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco and Jason Knapp. Donald has done a creditable job as a utility infielder, hitting .254, with promise. Catcher Lou Marson has been a disappointment, hitting .191; he is better than that, but now Carlos Santana is in town, and Santana is a franchise player. Carrasco is 6-3 in Columbus but has yet to prove he can pitch in the Major Leagues, while Jason Knapp is working to get healthy and is 2-7 in low A ball. That, from a big market team with a fabulous fan base that thought it could win it all again. Then when the Phillies traded away top prospects for Roy Halladay and were told that it would take CC Sabathia money to extend Lee, they moved him to Seattle for Phillippe Aumont, J.C. Ramirez and Tyson Gillies. Aumont was demoted to A ball and has a 7.01 ERA, Ramirez is at Double-A and has a 4.31 ERA on the year, while Gillies is hitting .238 in Double-A. Jack Zduriencik is very smart, putting Lee's name out there early to see if he can get a bidding war going. Neither the Indians nor Phillies got what today you'd say is a pair of first-round picks, so if he doesn't get what he wants, he can hold Lee and get two picks of his choice in next year's Draft. In the meanwhile, he can see what he can get. "I'm listening," says Zduriencik. "But it has to be the right kind of deal." Which means two or three cornerstone players, which is what Mark Shapiro got from Montreal by moving Bartolo Colon early in return for Lee, Sizemore and Phillips, and what then-Mariners GM Woody Woodward got at the deadline in 1998 when he moved Randy Johnson to Houston for Carlos Guillen, Freddie Garcia and John Halama. from the Gammons article at mlb.com

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jun 30, 2010 -> 02:11 PM) So he talked to Rick Hahn. Whatever. The deal is not gonna happen anyway now that's it's public and the Sox have lost leverage. Just deal Torres for LaRoche and let's be done with it. Laroche has a A TON of RBIs this month. He's exactly what we need to end the Kotsay era forever. It's going to take more than Torres, Lillibridge, CJ Retherford or John Shelby III. They're going to ask for Danks, another pitcher not named Hudson and maybe a low minors arm at least.

Yes, but, as mentioned, maybe the White Sox felt it would be good for Viciedo to have some experience of being up with the big league club...now, for him to play so sporadically for the next month, that would be more unacceptable, but it's fine for just 2-3 weeks. They can always stick him in the AFL or Winter Ball if they want or another Camp Cora. If Viciedo had hit 2-3 homers in his first couple of weeks and was still sitting on the bench waiting for lefties in the other team's rotations, then it would be a stronger argument. You can't really compare Colvin and Viciedo, because the Cubs are almost 90% out of it for this season because of the Zambrano situation and the fact they might be trading Lee or Ramirez.

Maybe it was one of Guillen's kids feeding him bad information... What did they say about KW's restaurant? Apparently, one of the Guillen kids ripped that place to shreds, too.