caulfield12

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 10, 2010 -> 10:02 AM) "Ozzie's Team" was put together to beat the Twins. Maybe it's time the organization start to model the Twins or the Rays and invest in your minor league system. It seems playing defense is the lowest priority in this organization. There is no situational hitting. There's plenty of players with low baseball IQ. The list goes on and on. Sending Beckham down=bad idea. Move him down the order. There's plenty of player who had great rookie season and tanked the next season. They hate participating in the free agent market and take risks on older veterans with hopes of being a comeback player. I'm all for restructure. It has worked with Andruw Jones and, to a lesser extent, JJ Putz. But with Kotsay, Vizquel, Teahen (although not "old," he's not a youngster anymore either) and Pierre, not so much. The Red Sox went through this same exact experience when they tried to "fill" around their core with Baldelli, Saito, Penny, Smoltz, Josh Bard and Mark Kotsay on the "cheap," only Penny has emerged as a value, and NOT with the Red Sox, of course.

"It's a baseball game," he said. "Sometimes I tend to forget that because of how well I want to do. "I thought of something (Thursday) night that I've always told myself that I haven't thought about this year. Just go out there and be fun to watch. That's a little different than going out there and having some fun. What I mean by that is just play the game the right way. People respect guys that go out there and bust their butt because they have too." dailyherald.com Yes, FlashTizzle, I got your point, b4 you edited it. I was in KC when Zach Greinke "flaked out" and I listened to him describe how he would just like to take his golden arm, walk out of the clubhouse, go back home and just ride around mowing lawns and plugging his Walkman or I-pod in to block out the world...obviously, Beckham's not used to dealing with a slump of this magnitude, and he's putting too much pressure on himself. Maybe everyone's right and Beckham and Ramirez need to get things turned around without going to Charlotte. There's not a clear "right" or "wrong" answer in this situation. Arguments abound for each side, obviously. And maybe the White Sox will become so "under the radar" that he can just quietly have a great second half, like Fields or Owens did in 2007, without anyone noticing. Whatever the decision it, it has to be based on preserving his ability to be a franchise cornerstone for the next decade...because we're running low on those "face of the franchise" type players if we shed Danks, Buerhle, PK, Jenks, AJ, etc. I really thought that Quentin and Ramirez would become, if not All-Stars or MVP candidates on a yearly basis, above average MLB players at their positions. And that still might be the case. The way I look at it, we have to find those players (yes, it sounds so simple) that have the ability to be MORE than average or below average. Teahen, forget about it...same thing with Pierre. I know someone will argue that even the Yankees and Red Sox don't have All-Stars at every position, yes? Beckham can be above average at 2B...Ramirez can be at SS because of his power, speed and POTENTIAL defensive ability if he puts it altogether, Quentin, yes (but he has to hit 900-950 OPS because of his shoddy defensive play, reminiscent of JD), Alex Rios, hell yes... That leaves Tyler Flowers at catcher (sacrifice D for offense at USCF), possibly Morel at 3B, Viciedo at 1B/DH/RF/LF. I'm close to ruling out Jordan Danks as capable of being "above average" at any outfield position. It would absolutely HAVE to be CF, and I'm not sure we want to move Rios back to RF to make way for Jordan. It think the odds are stacked against Morel because of his lack of power to play at USCF 81 games per year. Then Hudson needs to be a 4 starter at worst and 3 starter at best. Mitchell, Viciedo and Trayce Thompson, ideally two of those three guys, need to become our version of Carl Crawford, BJ Upton or Evan Longoria. Superstar, game changing players.

I thought I was depressed...lol...well, you can still at least make an argument for Teahen over Punto/Harris at 3B. And it's hard to say Morneau is clearly better than Konerko based on 2010 results alone, they're pretty even. And for most of our starting pitchers and bullpen head-to-head against the Twins' pitchers in the same slots.

Roberto Clemente was very underrated...until he became so popular and revered because of his off-field community work and the nature of his death, he became mythologized almost.

Trayce Thompson 1/3 with a 2B, .244 BA.

Jenks was asked by ESPNChicago.com if a change might be coming and that a meeting with Guillen and pitching coach Don Cooper might take place. "That doesn't make sense," Jenks said. Cooper seemed agitated by the situation, but was cordial about questions after the loss to Toronto. Asked what the problem was, Cooper said: "It has to be location. It's always location. You do or you don't make pitches. He didn't make them today." Cooper was asked by ESPNChicago.com if there was a meeting planned and if a change could occur in the closer's role. Cooper asked, "What did Ozzie say?" When told Guillen said he might need to have a conversation with Cooper, the pitching coach said: "Then that's what we'll do." I really hate it when the writers try to "trick" the coaches into saying something negative about each other...or a player, right after a game when the coaches haven't even had a chance to meet or regroup.

Still, those RBI stats for CQ will even out and a 716 OPS from a corner outfielder with bottom quartile defensive ability won't work. He's got to be an 850-925 OPS player to be an asset for this team, or we would be better off with Jermaine Dye in RF.

Scenario, does it really matter to this team if Alexei plays in Charlotte or Chicago? Beckham needs to go down, and soon. Why not keep them together? I'm not saying DON'T care about winning games anymore, of course, but without Beckham and Quentin, it doesn't matter if Alexei hits like he did from mid-May through August, 2008. How has he shown improvement in any facet of the game? He's not walking as much, his baserunning is in shambles (how can he have only ONE steal when Andruw Jones has six?), his defense is super spotty and he would have the chance to play with Gordon everyday in real game situations. I KNOW it won't happen because Ozzie loves Ramirez too much, but it should IMO.

I think they go Putz first. Number 1, he's a former closer. Number 2, he doesn't force Williams into a 7th/8th inning guy or someone who's even more overextended Number 3, we want to market Putz as a closer to get the best possible return in value via trade at mid-season Number 4, we don't have any desire to deal Thornton...and his value comes down a bit if he fails as a closer (still, he'd be the favorite for the job after a Putz trade, along with Santos in the "wings") Still, if you're heading into the 9th with a lead and there are two lefties coming up or Mauer/Morneau is leading off, you won't see Putz or Santos, it will logically be Thornton

QUOTE (Wanne @ May 9, 2010 -> 06:09 PM) Kinda hard to send half you infield down isn't it?!? That would be an admission of Epic. Failure! But it's necessary. Both of these guys have to play like All-Stars in order for the White Sox to be able to compete in this division. They're not even close right now. I think if we kept them together, it would work to their benefit, in the long-term. They wouldn't feel "picked on" or scapegoated as much by the organization if it was "sold" to them in the correct, patient way that Guillen has demonstrated so far with Beckham. Ramirez, perhaps it's time for the FO to take the gloves off and show him a little "tough love" instead of babying and praising him so much. Ozzie has already called him out for "moping" and hanging his head so much in 2009.

Not only that, but it'd be nice to see what we have with Nix. He's nice back-up insurance (along w/ Morel) for Teahen or could serve as part of a platoon FWIW. Or just trade bait. Some will argue CJ Retherford over Nix, but it's not merited by CJ's hitting in Charlotte this year, and Retherford doesn't have a "home" position defensively that he plays well. As far as Jenks, he's only had two outings the entire first six weeks of the season where he didn't give up a hit or walk. Both, of course, were in non-save, non-pressure situations.

I read through the game thread, it's funny, I guess I was meant to fall asleep and wake up and not go through the agony...last I could remember, it was a 6-5 lead after Pierre's HBP and then Pena had pitched through the 8th with the lead intact. At any rate: 1) It will be nice to see what Thornton, Putz and Santos can do in high leverage situations...even Pena, who was solid today. If Putz becomes a solid closer again, then we can shop him for something really nice at the ASB. He has the pedigree. I just think, right now, in his return from surgery, his stuff isn't quite there yet, he's around 85-90%. And, as much as I want it, they're right to baby Santos and protect him as much as possible, carefully selecting him for situations he's most suitable for. Still, you'd like to see his responsibilities grow, something like a RH version of Thornton, or maybe another comparison is Zumaya, that you use any time in the 6th-8th to get crucial outs against the other teams' best hitters. 2) Alex Rios has proven he's perhaps the most talented overall player on the team and his contract won't be an albatross to this teams' financial future. Peavy has done the same, the concerns about an injury, mechanics or his "missing" stuff are long gone. 3) Right now, if I was KW, I would make a full-court press on Jon Danks to get him to sign a long-term extension into his first year of Free Agency. If he absolutely refuses to sign, then you shop him carefully the next 2-3 months and you trade him if you can get a HUGE package in return. Otherwise, you just hold onto him into 2011. This team is too far off offensively to be "fixed" in the next year or so, which is why KW will have to consider long-term benefits of trading Danks, Peavy and Buehrle to set up a dominant team for future contention that can stay together 4-6 years. You also have to consider that it's unlikely we'll have Andruw Jones back, either he'll fall off a cliff, become injured, non-perform or price himself out of Chicago. 4) I would absoulutely think about sending Beckham and Ramirez down to Charlotte to play together everyday in a stress-free environment. As Beckham said it best, "just be a player that's fun to watch," remember why you fell in love with baseball and go back to being the player we all know you can become. Maybe it's not Chase Utley, but it's a 3-5 time all-star and very solid contributor with "plus" offensive skills at that position. With that move, I'd play Nix at 2B and Vizquel at SS everyday, with Brent Lillibridge up as the replacement and giving Vizquel a rest whenever he asked Ozzie for a day off. We don't have a SS close to being ready, Escobar is the nearest, so maybe you'd even bring Hudson (basically he's just filler) up. In fact, now that I think about it, my move would be Lillibridge and Shelby III. I would let John play some OF and 2B. Lillibridge could back up 2B/SS. I'd really like to see if Shelby can play or not at the next level. And he has the versatility to play multiple positions, like Lillibridge, both IF and OF. We actually increase our team speed with this move too, and our ability to manufacture some runs is enhanced. In the end, I would also consider CJ Retherford in the mix with Lillibridge, Hudson and Shelby III, and defer to Buddy Bell and Chris Chambliss on the two replacements for Ramirez and Beckham while they're getting their acts together at Charlotte. 5) Teahen plays everyday until he proves he's either part of our long-term plans for 2011 or he's just a glorified utility player. He plays against LHP and RHP, and only sits once or twice a month, no matter how poorly he's doing. If he completely tanks, Morel comes up to replace him in September. 6) We start a marketing campaign to let every GM know that Konerko, Putz, Linebrink, Kotsay, Freddy Garcia, Castro, AJ, Jenks, Andruw Jones, Pierre, etc., are available for the best offer. White Sox "E-Bay" we'll call it. We even start listening to offers on Danks, Buehrle and Peavy if KW is blown away. 7) Floyd has to stay until he figures things out, he's one of the few cost "certainties" going forward with our rotation. 8) AJ is traded and you either play Castro everyday (marketing him up for trade) or you give the job to Flowers when you feel he's ready...perhaps in the second half of this season, perhaps in 2011, Opening Day. By playing Castro, you still keep your options open in case you think Flowers figures in more as a 1B/DH. 9) Quentin has the remainder of this year to play everyday and prove he can be both healthy AND productive at RF/DH. 10) Over time, you start filtering in Hudson (say Garcia is traded), Flowers, Jordan Danks, Viciedo, Morel, Gartrell, Shelby III, Santeliz, etc., depending on need. 11) KW and JR write a very long, heartfelt letter to season ticket holders and ChiSox fans in general asking for their faith and patience that things can be turned around...Ozzie Guillen and Greg Walker resign at season's end, but are not fired. Frank Thomas becomes hitting coach the first day of the offseason.

Jenks has had two outings the entire season (Rongey looked it up himself in the post-game) where he didn't give up a walk or hit. Both were in non-save situtions, of course. That's about all you can say about Jenks.

Gopherball coming here? 89 pitches already. Who are we going to see next? Williams, Pena or Linebrink? Looks like it will be T-Pain.

Austin Jackson has been awesome. Possibly a better defender already than Grandy, the only big concern has been his high K rate.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 9, 2010 -> 02:14 PM) Wait until after the upcoming road trip. It's getting to the point where these players need to show up. If they don't, they have no one to blame but themselves. The greatest manager in the world couldn't have a team with so many players struggling in 1st place. Yes, there's a few games where I thought Ozzie could have put us in a better position to succeed. However, guys like Beckham/Pierre have been so worthless it's sad. I don't know...those 4 early "close" losses or blown bullpen saves against CLE and MIN really took the wind out of this team's sails. Then Buehrle's game with the 3-2 lead disappearing, tying it behind AJ and then losing again. After we swept the M's, we might have had our last legit chance to get back into the division race. Well, I guess if we sweep 2 games on the road in Minny, we can argue to ourselves we're still in it, but what are the odds of that happening?

"You know if you can hold them down, your team's going to score some runs." No ED Farmer, that's not exactly true with the White Sox this season, even with Romero practically begging us to take over the game.

Nix won't start one game at SS this year while Omar's still on the roster.

If we go on to lose this game... I think this might be the FINAL turning point or transition into "rebuilding" and White Flagging it. It has that feel to it. We're not going anywhere this season without Floyd, Beckham, Quentin and Ramirez. 3 of our 4 heroes from 2008 are goats. and our 2009 hero is in the same category. Hard or impossible to overcome that, no matter how good a GM you are.

Dadgummitt.....too predictable. Alexei jammed himself on that pitch when he had a great ball to drive. Shattered his bat into pieces. Pathetically egregiously, terrible. Brandon Short now 0-2, 2 K's, but still considered by scouts to be more dangerous than a simple majority of White Sox big league hitters.

GS or bunt here Alexei. Just don't strike out or hit into the DP. That would be too much to take. Vernon Wells with 3 career grand slams, Alexei Ramirez with 5.

QUOTE (Mauer_MVP @ May 9, 2010 -> 02:01 PM) Way to go Vernon! Go JAYS!!! Get back to us when you beat another team besides the low-budget A's in the American League playoffs. Great offensive line-up, but are you really comfortable with such a weak rotation after Liriano and Baker in a short series? And Jon Rauch? Really? The Rays and Yankees will eat you for lunch and spit you out like the Kraken laying waste to ARGOS.

We're getting trash-talked by Twins' fans when they are about to have an 8 game lead? That must be the highlight of the season!

QUOTE (fathom @ May 9, 2010 -> 01:57 PM) Ramon Castro f***ing sucks at pitch calling. Everyone in the world knows Wells loves the first pitch fastball. Ironic that he called Mark Buehrle's no-hitter. It was supposed to be a strength, but obviously he didn't spend any of his free time the last 6 months studying American League hitters. Just no excuses for some of those numbers and locations that were put down that half inning. I'm sure Tyler Flowers couldn't do any worse. Time to go back to Ozzie or Cooper calling all those pitches.

Terrible pitch selection....late on fastball and you sent him a change away. He was buried with 2 FB's. Gavin and Castro, get it together!!! This is why Gavin Floyd will haunt MLB GM's in their sleepless nights...just set a record for turning a 3-1 lead to a 5-3 deficit. Last year I wanted to waive Floyd and see if anyone would take his contract...there would be some takers now, I guess, but it's frustrating that we're locked in with Floyd and might lose Mark and Danksie. BTW, Vernon Wells is a DEAD-RED, first pitch, FB hitter. DO WE HAVE ANY ANY SCOUTS? The Sox Talk board knows the Jays' tendencies more than our own coaching staff apparently.