caulfield12

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 20, 2010 -> 02:00 AM) Just cause we disagree with you doesn't mean we're little girls. Some of us played sports as well as you did. And some of us liked Pods all last year even with his baserunning gaffes. I love Pods and I do believe he still has pop in his bat. And I have never been a fan of guys like Pierre who have no pop in their bat. It sickens me to see how shallow they play him. Guess it reminds me of Little League when guys like Pierre came to bat and as a third baseman our skipper forced me to play about even with the pitcher in case of bunt. Little girls don't risk their teeth gettin knocked out playing hockey from youth leagues through high school. No, Greg...he was taking a shot at me, but indirectly. This has nothing to do with you, or very little. Apparently he learns his insulting style from Ozzie Guillen. It's okay. I can take whatever he dishes out...because I am probably the only poster here who has had anything negative to say about the White Sox in the last week, haven't you noticed?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 12:03 PM) If the shoe fits. Very mature. Heaven forbid that I actually like a player (Juan Uribe) who has played well now for quite a while and is still in the prime of his career. It doesn't ever make you wonder how he became so "stale" and lost at the plate...why he regressed offensively every season from 2004 until he left the organization? I guess I'll have to love Mark Teahen, despite my years living in Kansas City and seeing only one four month stretch that would ever make me think that he's a regular MLB 3B for a contending club...because his defense is lousy, and his offense is sub par for a corner IF spot. Now I know you'll quote his high OBP right now, but let's wait and see if he ends up approaching over 775 for the season, cool?

Good for Konerko? I think we're going to be very lucky just to unload the remaining salary for a B/C prospect or two...

Yes, I wrote that before. And then scenario wrote it again...so I was reiterating, since people don't seem to read through most threads, they just start at the back and sometimes work their way forwards. And the last time I wrote it, Seattle hadn't played yet...or had a no-hitter almost.

Has Richard actually learned how to field his position well enough and THEN make accurate throws to 1B? Just wonder if he's made any progress in that area with a new organization and pitching coach....

Not the slider...you'll have elbow ligament damage like Liriano sooner rather than later.

Well, the Mariners have won 5 straight now (almost had a no-hitter) and the Rays have won 8 in a row on the road dating back to 2009. YIKES is all you can say at this point.

I think the organization might be willing to change their idea about Beckham again if they had a new manager. MAYBE?

Jordan Danks was another player that comes to mind with signability questions that we brought into the fold. That encouraged quite a few around here, as well as the obvious connection to his brother...and feeling more comfortable making the White Sox his long-term hope to stick around because of that fact. We'll have to wait and see. KW just might surprise everyone and deal Danks if he can't get him to sign like Floyd did. MAYBE.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 07:59 PM) Off my memory of the 2000 BA Handbook which is pretty good since I actually still take a look at it, I know both Garland/Buehrle were not considered rookies for the 2001 season and thus not eligible for the 2000 Prospect Book. You're probably right though about Guerrier being a bit later. Okay, I wasn't sure whether we were referring to entering 2000 or 2001. Yes, at that point Kip Wells was the heir apparent as ace before flopping...Buehrle had emerged from his long relief role and doubts about his FB. Entering 2001, Rauch was THE man. Garland had his debut against the Royals that mid-summer, I remember listening to the game driving on I-35.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 07:22 PM) Doesn't that include about 20 other teams in the league though too? I mean, at that point in the season, there really are only about 5 teams that have no significant statistical chance of making it, and then another 5 that are still within some type of level that has been accomplished before (say, 12 games back), but still leaves them with virtually no chance barring something miraculous. I mean, if you are 8 games back with 60 to play, you can go 38-22 and tie for a division title if the team in 1st place plays .500 baseball. There's not a great chance that happens, but you are still in it, even if that isn't technically competitive. Anything closer to that makes you more and more competitive. At some point in time, being competitive just doesn't cut it anymore. They didn't exactly suck one year and just luck into Joe Mauer. From 1993 to 2000, an 8 year stretch and the better part of a decade, the Twins... -never finished higher than 4th place in the AL Central -lost 88 or more games in 6 of the 8 years (and were on their way to losing 86 games in 1994) -lost 90 or more games 5 of the 8 years -lost 92 or more games 4 straight years, from 97-00 The Twins were not a very good organization and were constantly accumulating talent through their high draft picks and trades (and still actually have Nick Punto indirectly as apart of the Chuck Knoblauch deal which happened in 1998). And it wasn't as if they didn't go without flak for taking Joe Mauer. Mark Prior looked like an all-world pitcher, and there were people who criticized the Mauer draft choice and said it was the Twins taking the cheap road again. That would, today, be compared to the Nationals passing on Stephen Strasburg. Playing like kids again isn't going to get them to suddenly become miraculous hitters. Greg Walker has been credited with helping turn Joe Crede into an all-star caliber hitter (albeit, for 5 months, and then his back gave out). Further, if you want to look at before and afters, he has helped Jermaine Dye, Carlos Quentin, Scott Podsednik, Aaron Rowand, and I'm sure more can be found. I'm not a fan of Greg Walker, but he can't help that he's given Mark Kotsay as a starting DH or Juan Pierre as his everyday leadoff hitter. The fact of the matter is, the pure talent level of this offense is mediocre, and Walker is not at fault for that. Everything comes at a price. Adrian Gonzalez's will be monstrous if he is put onto the market, and there are several teams that will be able to outbid the White Sox. At some point in time, you have to either consider whether mortgaging part or all of your future is right for the current roster, and losing Dan Hudson, Tyler Flowers, and Jordan Danks might not be good for the long-term state of the franchise, considering Pierzynski is a free agent and getting older, Freddy Garcia is only signed through this year and is not that great, and that the White Sox outfield situation is anything but settled in the near future. Beyond that, you'd likely have to include even more beyond that. Alexei is also a league average shortstop, and that's not easy production to replace. It's also possible that something clicks for him and he turns into the offensive player he was in 2008 and becomes a solid 20 homer, .800 OPS bat at SS. I don't personally envision it happening, but it might. The Sox don't exactly have capable replacements either, what with Omar Vizquel, Robert Hudson, Greg Paiml, and Justin Fuller being the only other players within the Sox organization listed as a shortstop. It's Alexei or bust, so get used to seeing him. Or Nix/Beckham in very desperate circumstances.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 05:35 PM) First of all, it isn't enough to be competitive through July/August. I do remember the old adage that KW put the best team on the field (I think Hawk said this every year we didn't win the division), but at some point, I think we need to be realists and realize maybe, in fact, we didn't have the better team and maybe that's why we didn't win. In 2003/2004 (when we finished nine games/four games out of first place, respectively) I also agreed with Hawk that KW put the best team out there, and it just didn't happen. But I have realized that was just a poor excuse. It really was KW not putting a better team out there, and really with the payroll we have had compared to our division rivals, there is no reason we shouldn't have won more than two divisions in KW's reign. We also said the "best prospects" thing in 2000. And where did those guys end up? Well, the two best probably are kicking our butt in the Twins bullpen, but clearly they didn't pan out quite like the experts thought. We don't have a top-50-type prospect, rather three or four 50- to 100- range prospects. I am just sick of the same excuses that KW has done all he can because clearly he hasn't built the best team. Garland and Buehrle (some were including him at #8-10 on the prospects list then, I THINK) legitimiately have turned out much better than Rauch/Guerrier. Guerrier was more 2001/2002. Fogg and Bradford made major contributions to rosters, Rocky Biddle as well. Wright/Ginter/Barcelo/Stumm, not so much.

Can I spit on Ozzie Guillen's LH/RH index cards (not laptop) and Twitter phone?

Wasn't Dave Brown the former QB of the NY Giants? Any connection with the name?

And the other common factors were how good the 2005 and 2008 bullpens were...that's one of the underestimated areas, but there's always a correlation. Remember all the problems auditioning about 10-15 LHR in spring training, and NONE of them worked out, except Javier Lopez, who we traded to the Red Sox for some reason? I'm sure along with overall team ERA, you'll see an inverse relationship (is that the right term, lol?) with the bullpen results (and lack thereof) for 2005-2009.

Reevaluating the infamous Big Board...maybe Rongey can update us, haha.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 02:11 PM) Do you think the Twins at the end of the season will have the 2nd best pitching staff in the AL? Maybe... If Liriano is back again, at anything close to 2006 form, it's over. Baker is a solid/underappreciated 2, same with Blackburn and Slowey, those guys are like Sonnanstine/Shields. The big question surrounds Carl Pavano, and who he really is and turns out to be. Their pen is very good if Crain and Guerrier can get it back together, obviously Rauch could be an issue over time. Mijares basically took the place of D. Reyes in plaguing the Sox. Then you have Perkins/Swarzak/Duensing, etc., for depth. Not as good as our rotation SHOULD be on paper, but we all know how many division titles the White Sox should have on paper, right?

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:53 PM) Building from within is definitely necessary. Not to beat the Twins-rock-in-drafting horse further, but when you look at their payroll distribution, they get some very strong contributions from guys not making a lot of money. The Sox need to continue to have an influx of young talent so that they can pay good money to keep key stars and bring in critical FAs (even if that is via trade, not actual free agency). I would point out that the Sox did not actually get older in the offseason. The bench may be older, but the everyday lineup is younger. It's simple, their method is based on an organizational/development approach that has worked for a decade. Ours is based on "stealing" talent from other organizations, but it's like beating the stock market index or Vanguard Funds. You can't do it on a yearly basis, which is why we're so up and down. Getting Ramirez/Quentin/Danks and Floyd has been followed with the opposite results in the Swisher deal...jury's still out on the Vazquez one. Look at our ten most valuable players: 1) Beckham (draft) 2) Danks (trade of decade three) 3) Floyd (trade of decade two) 4) Buehrle (draft) 5) Quentin (trade of decade four, albeit becoming more interesting) 6) Thornton (trade of decade) 7) Ramirez (FA find of the year) 8) Santos (stolen) 9) Jenks (stolen) 10/11) Rios and Peavy (financial deals) 12) Pena (trade) 13) Putz (FA) You look at the Twins' top 10, almost all of their top guys came from their own system, with the exceptions of Lirano, D. Young and Nathan. But look at the bottom half of our roster...those are players we had to fill because we didn't develop our own players. Pierre (lack of developing our own leadoff hitter internally or trading for one, see Owens/Wise/Lillibridge...trades of Chris B. Young/Rowand) Teahen (Uribe diminishing returns, Joe Crede's health and lack of ready minor league replacement in Fields/Morel/Viciedo) Kotsay...Joe Borchard never develops into LH version of Dunn with more athleticism, trade of Brandon Allen Andruw Jones...desperate reclamation project Rios had to be signed because of Brian Anderson's failure for 4 seasons to develop, and the club's lack of confidence for Sweeney to play CF Linebrink/Dotel...lack of development in minor league bullpen arms, blown assessments/development with Aardsma, Sisco, MacDougal and Masset, etc. Nix (stolen) Garcia/Colon....lack of development of a legit 5th starter internally (only ones have been McCarthy, Gio, maybe, and now, hopefully Hudson) also see Broadway/McCulloch/Honel/Poreda...although Richard was a heckuva find in the 8th round for $78,000 Vizquel...career plateau of Uribe at age 28-29 under Walker's guidance, but reborn in SF Williams Lucy...Castro injury, Castro traded/signed for too much money because we didn't develop our own catchers

And how we became such a terrible home team in 2009 after playing so well for most of the decade at home. Strange, and hard to understand/explain.

Ellsbury is most certainly better than Pierre. Call up Epstein and offer Pierre for Ellsbury and it will be as ridiculous as them asking for Mark Buehrle in previous seasons for Manny Del Carmen. You can forget about David Ortiz soon. He will be replaced by Adrian Gonzalez. It's inevitable that Epstein has to act to, and soon.

White Sox Nation died at the All-Star break in 2006, briefly reappeared in 2008 and hasn't been seen or heard from since then... But i was fun for a season and a half while it lasted. The bandwagon fans are almost all gone now. It's the whole law of baseball economics...the benefits of winning a World Series title last for roughly five years after that championship. We're at roughly that point now...returning back to the "norm" for us as second class citizens and blue collar roots, haha.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:17 PM) Except for the fact that that isn't true... What is it so far this season? His GO/FO ratio? Seems every time I've listened to a game, he's hit a couple of balls into the OF that were caught.

And that was coming off the incredible ending to the 1967 season... This is the way of life for a Sox fan, haha. 1983 is followed by the huge disappointment of 1984, 93 is followed by the strike and loss of a possible pennant in 94, 2000 is followed by the David Wells/Frank Thomas fiasco, numerous injuries, Jose Canseco and struggling from a 14-29 start to get back to .500 at midseason (that's probably the best example of recent Sox teams that just sucked in the first six weeks and at least became competitive...but the Indians and Twins were way too good that year). 2003 shows up and just cuts out our hearts in the end...Jerry Manuel drives Sox fans and Keith Foulke to the brink of craziness with his Gandhian passiveness, the total opposite of Ozzie. 2005 followed by the collapse in 2006/2007....2008 followed by huge disappointment in 2009 and starting off 2010. Notice a pattern? No sustainable success. Overall, of course, the 2000's have been the "glory" decade for the franchise overall, since the turn of the century teams of 1905-1917 and the late 50's/early 60's teams. We are the bi-polar franchise of baseball. Then you throw out that statistic that we're like 3rd or 4th in winning percentage in all of MLB dating back to 1990....behind the Braves, Yankees, Red Sox, something like that, I wonder what the updated overall PCTG would be for teams since 2000 (all of MLB) and where we'd place? Undoubtedly in the Top 8-10. Leading to our lack of high draft picks and blown first round picks, non-development of Asian and Caribbean/Latin markets (after Ordonez/Lee), Dave Wilder and Regier...it's really amazing when you compare the homegrown Twins and how many players on our roster were originally drafted by the Sox. KW is the actual hero of "Liar's Poker" the financial novel, not the anti-hero of Moneyball.

The Red Sox and White Sox also have very good bullpens, certainly one of the strengths (more of an individual analysis of their arms/talent/ability rather than "pitching under pressure" in tie games or with 1 run leads/deficits, that's been a definite weakness). Papelbon is walking a ton of batters so far, though. What is curious is both teams have upper-echelon rotations and both have failed to show up quite a bit to start the season.

Except Juan Pierre is a flyball hitter without having any power...