caulfield12

Having Thome around definitely will never HURT a team. As everyone knows, he's one of the most respected and liked players in all of baseball. Whether it will sell any more season tickets, probably not many. Just like having Andruw Jones and Omar Vizquel around hasn't caused anyone to break out the checkbook for Sox tix. Vizquel will be in the HOF and Jones was clearly headed there until he fell off a cliff 3-4 seasons ago. When you start seeing Jones/Vizquel White Sox jerseys or Thome "Twins" jerseys, then you would have to acknowledge they're making an impact. 90% of opening any new stadium is the stadium itself, and even the weather won't deter fans this year. With Mauer and Morneau, they already have two big superstars to market. That's all they need, really.

With Gomez gone, and Kubel's knee getting stronger each year after his major surgery, you'll see more of Kubel in the outfield because loading up that line-up with those four lefties is simply too tempting. Especially if Delmon Young struggles like he did the first half of 2009. He's never going to be a good defender, but he's not going to be Josh Fields or Viciedo out there either.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 11:33 PM) So there's no chance he drops off at age 39? Heck, last year was a decline in OPS from anything he's ever had in a full year. Sure, there's a chance, but what's the risk? How is it any riskier than gambling on at least five hitters (and Greg Walker, by extension) to elevate their games? As has been noted ad infinitum, Kotsay/Jones/Pierre have also seemed to be on the downside from their peaks as well. I won't even go into Omar Vizquel at this point as an offensive "force." I'm just hoping the "coaching/mentoring" value of Vizquel to Beckham/Ramirez/Teahen is worth the roster spot. Because we've seen the results of those "Camp Coras" and Ozzie's bunting/fundamentals clinics and how lasting the effects are on the team.

I think with the success of "The Blind Side" by the same author (surely they'll use that Michael Lewis connection in trailers) and Mr. Hollywood Brad Pitt attached to the project, it will end up getting made. I'm actually curious if Kenny Williams would agree to play himself in that role. Since it's basically denigrating his performance as GM, I wouldn't think so. On the other hand, Kenny's ego is big enough that he fancies himself capable of portraying his own persona much more accurately than any Hollywood actor.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 09:03 PM) You can say pretty much the same thing about the Pirates. That's a team with a storied history that has hardly been relevant in my lifetime, and I turn 23 this year. The early 90's Pirates teams were great with Bonds, Bonilla, Drabeck, Leyland, etc. Of course, you have the Roberto Clemente Era teams with 2 World Series titles and the 79 "We Are Family" team with those crazy hats with the yellow stripes and stars like they now put on football helmets (Willie Stargell and Kent Tekulve). In KC, David Glass has been a so-so owner, but he's just not as personally rich as Kauffman was, nor is he willing to put winning over the finances of the team or himself personally. Simply, he's someone that people might respect as a business leader from his Wal-Mart days, but there's so much backlash against that style of running a business that he suffers for it by extension. And he just doesn't have a "vibrant" or charismatic personality. It's kind of like comparing Martha Coakley and the new Massachusetts Senator. I can understand why so many Dems were frustrated that they actually voted across party lines. Well, that's how a lot of people feel about Glass in comparison to Kauffman, he can never measure up no matter what he does (which hasn't been much, the jury's definitely out on Hillman and Dayton Moore replacing Allard Baird/Muser and Pena). They've made some very strange decisions in the last decade, such as signing Gil Meche (better than expected) but trading away Damon/Dye/Beltran and not receiving much of value is those deals...as well as bringing in Jose Guillen for that type of salary when he was declining as an outfielder and always a difficult personality for the best "New Age" manager to deal with just didn't make much sense.

What I'm not understanding is why is Thome such a big risk now when he was a much bigger risk in 2006 coming off injury and with a significantly larger contract, despite the subsidy/offwrite from Pat Gillick? He was in his mid 30's then, still well past the age that hitters start to decline significantly. So now spending $1.5-2.0 million is suddenly a huge risk when they spent 5-6X that on Big Jim last year? I don't get it. Once again, if they'd done ANYTHING to shore up the position, this wouldn't be an issue. And in fact, they have. Andruw Jones could take those at-bats against lefties. It just doesn't have any logic when we play 81 games at USCF. The Twins are a better team with Jim Thome and we are worse without him (and no suitable replacement), pure and simple.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 03:30 PM) Ill tell you this Steve. No team starting Jim Bob-Hicks will ever win a World Series. (hahahaa) Yes, but they might win a Nascar title. I'm sure Bob Dylan will be the Crew Chief, too.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 03:20 PM) So you've watched almost every Royals, Twins, and White Sox game over the last 10 years? GMAB. I didn't say every, lol. If you live in Kansas City, get the Royals broadcasts on t.v. and radio, they all play each other 18 games per year...and you have GameDay Audio and MLB Extra Innings, it's possible.

When is the "Moneyball" movie supposed to come out? I can't wait until the A's are in last place at that time and maybe KW will finally get some credit.... It will be interesting to see who plays KW and how he's made to look in the film, or if that gets cut out/edited. Brad Pitt ... Billy Beane Demetri Martin ... Paul De Podesta David Justice ... Himself Rick Yudt ... JP Ricciardi???? Darryl Strawberry ... Himself Lenny Dykstra ... Himself Scott Hatteberg ... Himself Frankie Ingrassia ... Tara Beane (uncredited) Wonder who will play Grady Fuson, he was a big part of that book, too. Does Miguel Olivo get to be in the movie? Chad Bradford? Keith Foulke? Cotts? Koch? Swisher? Blanton? Dotel?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 03:12 PM) The problem with the team is how many assumptions we have to make to make things look bright. Say what you want about Thome, but he was usually a lock to put up his numbers. Now, I’d contend that Aj us the only real lock to put up his year-years. We're gambling on nearly everything else. We want Rios to be the guy from two years ago, Teahen to be the guy Billy Beane thought he could be, Beckham to have a strong sophomore season, Konerko not to continue to decline, and so on so forth. I'm not saying these guys aren't going to get their numbers, I think Beckham is a special player, Rios' struggles can be overcome, it's just a hell of a thing to know that everything needs to fall in the right way to just get past not having a real DH. If half the team stays consistent, we’ll be okay, if half of them rebound we’ll be better, but that’s a heck of a lot of “if’s.” We have such a good pitching staff, why the risk? I'll even give you that Konerko, Beckham and Ramirez SHOULD be able to repeat their career totals. I wouldn't even call AJ a "sure thing" as he is getting older now too, but I tend to agree with you. We'll have to get closer to 70 RBI's from him than 45-50 though. The big problem is the "maybes/what if's/possibly" you have with five spots in our line-up. The Twins have 2-3 in that category, we have easily five, if not more (as you say, 8).

Yes, Steve. But weren't the same things said about Nick Swisher and Alex Rios??? Why were we so atrocious at home? Can anyone explain that, especially after 2008, and historically, when it has been the opposite. If anything, I worry about a player like Teahen (just like Ramirez/Uribe) thinking they're sluggers at USCF, adjusting their swing and popping up a ton of balls (like Crede or Thomas) to the outfield. Of course, Hawk will be there with his "just missed it, dad gummit" comments now and again, but it won't change the end results.

How many times have the White Sox come back and beaten Nathan (the game you referenced)? It happened once last year. There was another game Carlos Lee homered off him (must have been 2003 or 2004) at USCF to tie the game but they ended up losing eventually if my memory serves me correctly.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:45 PM) I think we need some more offense. Losing both Dye and Thome lessens our offense and I don't see where we have added anything in the offensive category. The idea of a DH by committee has some magic ring to it, but the realiity is you need bats to drive in runs. I don't see the improvement with what we have added and that includes Rios. The best we will possibly have is Rios maybe matching Dye powerwise. He hasn't shown much for awhile now and this hype about his last ten games of 2009 means nothing unless he can do it over 162 games in 2010. Andruw Jones and Vizquel are on the down side and are role players. Kenny Williams is kidding himself if he thinks different. I am interested in seeing what develops out of ST, but it had better be something. What would the Vegas odds be that Alex Rios ever puts up a 30 or 35 homer season for the White Sox? I would imagine they wouldn't be too good. I think 18-24 homers is a lot more likely. Heck, I would take 20 and call it a day and hope that Quentin returns to AL MVP form or we're cooked.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 02:41 PM) I like this. Pierre Beckham Quentin Konerko Jones/Kotsay Rios Pierzynski Teahen Ramirez I think the DH spot and Pierzynski are interchangeable. Ramirez should bat 9th to start the year, since he's been terrible in April his first two years. If you hit Ramirez AFTER Pierre and Juan actually gets on base, that will force our opponents to throw him more fastballs, which he feasts on (just like Uribe). Alexei made adjustments in mid-season to the curveball, but you stick Ramirez down at 9th after Teahen, they'll just throw him a steady diet of junk and he'll get himself out more often than not. Heck, they will pitch around him to face Pierre and retire him, then Beckham would be leading off with nobody on base, which isn't the best use of his talent and ability. In that case, you might as well just bat Pierre 9th, Beckham first and Rios/Ramirez 2nd. AJ and Teahen back-to-back doesn't make very much sense when they're your two best LH power hitter, and Kotsay should never be hitting 5th. That Mark Kotsay "logically" could be hitting fifth one-third of the games tells you all you need to know about this year's offense.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 02:34 PM) Maybe you're not understanding. You used message posts as a guage for how much more valuable Joe Nathan is over Bobby Jenks. I'm telling you that it's crazy to do that considering there were many, many posts/calls/emails from people wanting Mark Buehrle sent packing because he was having a bad year and because a significant amount of people thought he was done. It doesn't matter if it was a regular Sox forum or postgame threads, it was still said. And it was said repeatedly. And, of course, those people changed their minds because they didn't know what they were talking about in the first place. Therefore, I would be careful with using a message board as evidence of a player's value. No, I used 10 years of listening and watching to the Twins, almost as many as White Sox games. I could pull out and quote all the individual save/opportunity stats, 7th inning leads blown, 8th inning leads blown, blown saves for the bullpen overall. We just have a difference of opinion. You are "selling" the company line that the White Sox bullpen has enough pieces that COULD BE GOOD, even without Dotel and with JJ Putz's health uncertain (such as Pena and Linebrink), that it makes the margin between Jenks and Nathan at the end of games minimal or negligible. I disagree, respectfully. I think everything flows backwards from the closer and Joe Nathan can make a "meh" bullpen committee look better than it really is and a shaky reliever can turn great set-up guys into... Let's just put it this way, when Joe Morgan made his remarks about the White Sox having one of the great bullpens in 2008, you knew his hyperbole would eventually come back to bite him. Both him and KW. We'll see how determined Jenks is to get his career back on track again in 2010.

Finally saw "In the Valley of Elah," thought that was a great film, and I'm not even a big Tommie Lee Jones fan. Paul Haggis is great. Up in the Air, I can't really say that's the best picture of the year either, the ending leaves you feeling a bit empty (yes, it fits with the character of Ryan Bingham, I get that), it's just not the "feel good" story that explains Slumdog Millionaire or even Avatar. It's Complicated was okay, lol....I'm not going to say it was hilarious, it is interesting to reflect on Alex Baldwin going back to his Jack Ryan and "Malice" days and see how his career has evolved into comedy acting. I thought Steve Martin was quite good in an "understated" (for him) role. Actually, Coraline was better than It's Complicated, although I would honestly give the Best Picture Award to UP. They did it with Beauty and the Beast, but it probably won't ever happen again. Here in Thailand, I have to watch most movies through the internet or pirated versions...I managed to find 1/2 of THE HURT LOCKER and I was blown away by Jeremy Renner's performance but I can't say that's clearly the best movie either. Now having 10 movies in the best picture category makes things even more fractured with so many possibilities.

The sad thing is that 20 years ago, saying something like that would have been unthinkable or unimaginable. The Royals under Kauffman were always one of the "model" franchises in the game of baseball. Most younger fans don't remember how good those 70's and 80's ERA Royals teams actually were, they just think of them like they do the Pirates, Nationals, Marlins (minus the two World Series titles), Padres, etc.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) No, caulfield, they were ready to throw him out of town because he was having a bad year. There were numerous people that were so upset with his underperformance that they would say things like, "if he wants to play for the Cardinals then go ****ing play there!" Trust me, it was out of anger, it wasn't out of prudence. People weren't thinking about the draft picks. They were mad because he stunk that year. Yeah, I think Beckham will hit 2nd. It's back to the same argument again, the "snap/angry/speak first and think later" tenor of a call-in show or post-game thread versus calm, reasonable, logical thinking about the White Sox. Anyone who has watched Buehrle's career from the very beginning, from the tarp slides to the deer hunting with Crede to the World Series and family stage of his life...they've never undervalued his importance to this team and franchise. On paper, after you get past the won-loss record, quite a few people prefer the "flashiness" and repertoire of a Javy Vazquez or even Gavin Floyd. Strikeouts are more exciting than maximizing pitch counts, keeping the infield defense on its toes and working fast. And yeah, when Buehrle doesn't have it, he does occasionally just get absolutely rocked, but more often than not he battles hit butt off out there. Just like Greg Hibbard used to do. I also think MOST Sox fans have a lot more forgiveness and patience for ANY of the members of that World Series-winning team. No matter how bad things got with Jose Contreras post 2006, those four months in 05-06 were enough for me to forgive anything that happened consequently, including KW's signing him to a contract extension that went 1-2 years too long. The White Sox can't afford to be sentimental very often (it's a business, after all), but when they have acted in that way, it was to keep players like Konerko, Buehrle, Dye, AJ, etc., in the fold. If AJ or Konerko don't perform well this year, I won't be clamoring for them to be traded or waived either, although I'm sure some of the younger fans or those with shorter memories will be quicker to cut them adrift.

Mark Loretta might come out of his one-day retirement to DH for us. Ozzie and KW deserve this public relations backlash for putting themselves in this situation in the first place and then trying to positively "spin" the fanbase to accept it as the best option when that's clearly not the case in anything but Bizarro World/Twilight Zone.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:59 PM) Beastly and CubsSuck1 spoke well of them, too. Which makes it all the more strange that someone can have this alternative personality on the internet. I'm sure if his career is anywhere near the intensity of his rants he is living successfully somewhere. Just like the Unabomber or Rush Limbaugh, lol. They're both pretty intense and like/d to "rant and rave." That's the scary part about reading boards on-line about religion or politics these days. It SEEMS there's so much more racism and hatred than ever in the United States. If it's not directed at foreigners or immigrants, it's religious intolerance. I think the Secret Service must be going crazy these days with all the threats, real and imagined, being made against Obama. I guess it goes back and forth...the lack of respect from BOTH sides just exacerbates and polarizes the situation even further.

QUOTE (35thstreetswarm @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) I am imagining you writing this while chained to a bed in the remote mountain cabin of your "number one fan." Tell JimH it is more effective if you read the statement on videotape. It was funny, I was thinking something had happened to Fathom too....his quotes there were very "warm" and close to emotional, lol. But, OTOH, it's really sad too, it reminds me whenever I see these types of threads about ncorgbl and his "reign of terror" over at chisox.com 7-8-9 years ago. He liked to challenge people to meet and constantly was digging up personal information, making comments about my wife, etc. With all the illegal guns out there, with the lack of privacy on the Internet, with so many making themselves vulnerable through Facebook and Myspace pages, it's shocking there isn't more "Internet related" violence...and it's really hard to know what people are "bluster" and which ones really are capable of "snapping" and doing real harm.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:37 PM) I think it's a mistake to equate Teahen and Uribe in the hitting department. They aren't the same hitter, and I would be really surprised if Uribe does again what he did last year. That was insane for him. At any rate, I'd see Teahen hitting 7th. Rios I can see anywhere from 5th-6th. AJ might be hitting 5th. But who knows, anyway. There could be 6 forms of that lineup. Which means you now have to hit Beckham, Ramirez or Kotsay/Vizquel second, right?? Uribe has been around seemingly forever, but he's only 3 years older than Teahen, 31 (he still is 30 right now) versus 28. Uribe put up an 824 OPS, which is something Teahen has never done. So the argument is that Teahen SHOULD overachieve but Uribe will never repeat his 2004 and 2009 seasons because of what exactly? If anything, you're just guessing...it's not unlike saying Mark Kotsay will be better than Alex Rios/Thome/Dye based on August/September of 2009. Heck, we're basing our hopes for leadoff hitter on an uncharacteristic flash of brilliance from Juan Pierre in LA that looks like it could be an outlier versus his career trends and age. I just hope that JD and Thome don't put up huge numbers for either the Cubs, Twins or Tigers...I can just see the series of Phil Rogers and Cowley articles inundating the papers and Net if that comes to pass.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:17 PM) First, I didn't say Jenks was as good as Nathan. What I said was that the difference between the two, within the context of the entire pitching staff, is not great enough to give the Twins the overall edge. The Sox will win more games based on the overall pitching than the Twins will...probably a lot more I have a difficult time thinking that. You may also want to slow down on the Nathan-to-the-Hall-of-Fame talk. Easy there. I also wouldn't take internet posters' willingness to let Jenks walk as an indication of how good he is. That's absurd. I bet it was at least 50% of the internet posters (I've been reading for a while) that wanted "Buehrle's ass shipped to St. Louis" after his '06 season. The follwoing year they were threatening to never come back if the Sox didn't re-sign him. You're a Cardinals fan, you certainly understand why that talk has existed seemingly every year. It was more a matter of if we couldn't keep Mark Buehrle around here long-term, maybe we should try to get something from the Cards' minor league system...the next Lance Johnson, Vince Coleman or Willie McGee would look nice in our line-up if we could get Sherman and Peabody to turn the Way Back Machine 20+ years. Or Terry Pendleton to play 3B. White Sox fans have always loved Buehrle more than any player with the posssible exception of Konerko/Crede/Thomas for some, it's just that they didn't want to become TOO ATTACHED and be heartbroken at some point when/if he bolted for St. Louis. Nobody was too upset when Jon Garland ended up in Southern California as predicted for 5 years, but Buehrle is a different situation entirely.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:10 PM) Yikes. Glad that wasn't me. It's just on overreaching statement to make. I know I said this earlier, but I do think it's possible for one player to carry a lineup for a short period of time, but it's difficult to do for a full season. I also think one player can break lineup if that player was expected to carry the load. For example, if for whatever reason, Pujols just falls apart (unlikely), St. Louis would be in trouble. But if the guy hits 8th in the lineup and plays good D, you most definitely can win with him because he is more dependant on the rest of the lineup then they are on him. That's the point, Teahen SHOULD be the 8th place hitter, but he WON'T be. Unless you want to jam AJ into that 5th-6th-7th spots, which puts us right back into the same situation of having Quentin (if he's not 100% on the bases), Konerko and AJ needing 3-4 hits in a row to score them. Juan Pierre shouldn't be the leadoff hitter, Alexei Ramirez shouldn't be hitting 2nd, etc. Pierre Ramirez or Rios Beckham Quentin Konerko AJ Teahen or DH or Ramirez/Rios Ramirez or Rios or Teahen/DH See 7-8 Realistically, I have no idea where the heck to stick an Andruw Jones or Kotsay in the batting order. They should be 7th-9th, but who knows with Ozzie Guillen. I guess we will be the first AL team to have a DH hitting in the bottom 3rd of the order in 2010. Can we really afford to go from 2nd through 5th in the batting order (assuming Jones is in the line-up) with all right-handers? Then where the heck do you hit AJ? In front of Pierre? If you stick Ramirez or Rios down the very bottom of the order, that's crazy too. If you have Teahen and AJ back-to-back, that's stupid. Chris, what is your batting order at this point? I guess if you think Teahen will hit 8th, it goes like this. Pierre Rios Quentin/Beckham Konerko Beckham/Quentin AJ DH Teahen Ramirez Still too many righties in a row, and you're giving Pierre, Rios, Jones/Kotsay, AJ and Teahen more at-bats than Alexei Ramirez. That's bad. It's also bad to have Rios making megabucks to bat 7th-9th, which is realistically where he SHOULD be based on the last two seasons. But somehow I have a feeling either Andruw Jones or Kotsay will be getting a lot more AB's than they should (by definition, I guess since neither SHOULD be in the line-up, that will be true no matter where they end up hitting).

Did anyone see where Toby Hall signed a contract? In other news, the heady Mark Loretta retired, but not until after a full-court press by Ozzie and KW to make him a part-time DH and final piece to the puzzle in our bid to win the "versatility SABR standings" team award. Unfortunately, KW also forgot to try to include Mark DeRosa, Joe McEwing, Rex Hudler and Jose Oquendo on his off-season hit list. So Vizquel, Teahen and CJ will have to suffice for now.