caulfield12

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 23, 2009 -> 09:20 AM) I am hoping you are wrong, for good reason. He's "only" 32 and last year his salary was only $1.5 million. Former Rookie of the Year in 2002, I would rather have him than Kotsay as the DH. I never said it's ideal or perfect, but given our salary/payroll situation where it's at right now, I'm sure he's hovering somewhere on KW's Top 5 list of available options, largely based on the low salary we'd have to pay him for putting up a 775-850 OPS (not great, but okay) out of that spot. He did hit a homer every 12 at-bats as a Yankee last season...Delgado's not realistic from a salary standpoint. I see there's another thread about LaRoche, and I suppose that's possible, and so is Thome coming back, but I wouldn't discount Hinske too quickly.

I'm still betting the guy we end up with is Eric Hinske, for some reason.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 23, 2009 -> 08:41 AM) The problem is that there is no proven program that is better than another. What hes saying sounds good and it's always better to be in shape but there's no guarantee that it will make him a better pitcher. Professionals can't even agree on the best mechanics. There is zero research showing that stronger muscles will be more effective in pitching. The only thing that is mostly agreed upon is that pitchers injure the rotator cuff the most so a stronger more pliable rotator cuff muscles should help to prevent injuries. However, this has ever been proven. Even with my research, we just try to do what makes sense and take as much stress off the arm as possible but it is far from absolute. Has any official research ever been done on our system and all the injuries pitchers experienced around 1999-2003??? Jason Stumm Danny Wright Jon Rauch Jim Parque Rocky Biddle Lorenzo Barcelo Kelly Wunsch Bobby Howry James Baldwin Mike Sirotka Corwin Malone Kris Honel (he was later) Kip Wells (health problems later) Brandon McCarthy (later) I'm sure I am leaving some names off, just off the top of my head... Was it a run of incredible bad luck, or something that could actually be looked at from a system-wide standpoint, etc.?

While we're at it, we should also bring back Aaron Rowand or Chris Young.

Well, let's just agree to think of Teahen as the new Jose Valentin on the basepaths then, although he's certainly not fast, perhaps he has what is called "baseball quickness" and instincts/anticipation. The strange thing is that I lived in Kansas City until 2005 and then 2006-2007 and have no strong recollection of Mark Teahen as a baserunner, so I'll just defer to what others have said.

You can make another argument that with our pitching staff set up the way it is, scoring runs in the first inning (like we did in 2005 and then 2006 a lot, holding many one or two run leads throughout the entire game) and getting the first lead of the game, those will both be critically important. (So another interesting question would be to study what's the best way to get someone with 30+ stolen bases home from first base with no outs, based on his stolen bases percentages being around 75-80%....steal....sacrifice or hit away). If you have Beckham batting 3rd and Pierre gets on-base, there SHOULD be numerous runs scored on Beckham doubles without Pierre having to steal 2nd base. That's another reason I prefer to have Ramirez batting second, although it might be Rios, too. If Quentin, Konerko, AJ and Teahen are "jamming" up the basepaths in the middle of the order, things won't be any different than in the past, we'll just have lower OPS/SLG totals compared to Dye and Thome. It would be nice to have CQ running at 100% too, because that makes a big difference in his value as a player, if he's able to go 100% around the basepaths. That's the irony of our line-up, that three of best possibilities for the 1-2 spots (Pierre/Ramirez/Rios) might be better served being at the bottom of the order...but I still think you have to bat Beckham 3rd, Quentin 4th and Konerko 5th and the DH/AJ/Teahen 6th.

I think the other problem here in Chicago is that they never envisioned Sweeney as the answer in CF, for whatever reason. And putting him on a corner outfield spot or even 1B didn't seem logical from a power standpoint, either. Playing in that stadium, he'll never put up great offensive numbers, but it seems he's one player the White Sox gave up on too quickly, and if we had his second half numbers in the first half of 2009 out in CF, we would have been in a much better position to compete in the 2nd half, although you could say the same thing about 5-10 players on our roster performing up to their usual standards. If you looked at our roster, would we put Gio over Daniel Hudson in the pecking order? Maybe, but I doubt it. I think most are higher on Hudson because he appears to the be the most durable of the two, although Gio didn't exactly break down as a starting pitcher like Brandon McCarthy, he just hasn't pitched well enough consistently. Just lots of flashes broken up by wildness. As far as DLS, when he puts up a dominating half-season in AA, then I'll start to take notice again.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 10:05 AM) Yeah, a lot of us wanted Jackson but then some others thought he sucked and Sonnancrap was better (even though Jackson was still young, extremely talented, gaining experience, and his numbers were trending upwards, pointing towards a possible breakout). Speaking of moves we could have made in hindsight, imagine if we'd been able to land Jackson and Zobrist (who was only a bench player at that point) for Dye and Getz? If I had a time machine I'd probably use it only for baseball purposes. Agree, but Kenny only won that game of chicken because the FA market hadn't crashed yet. Agree that 2010 is supposed to be the start of the next era of truly meaningful Sox baseball (shooting for the WS). Disagree on the Rios deal being Kenny's riskiest move. I wanted this guy before and IMO this is going to be a brilliant acquisition. I mean, any long-term contract is risky (look at Dye with the A's for an example) but in terms of what Rios can be expected to give you, along with his age and the fact that his contract takes him into his prime and not beyond it, plus the salaries that even average all-around CF'ers get, I think he'll be at least worth his deal if nothing else. Kenny's riskiest moves IMO have been the ones like the Tony Pena trade, the Mike MacDougal trade, the Ritchie deal, etc. where he gave up prospects with higher ceilings than the players he was acquiring, and the players he was acquiring weren't exactly models of consistency either. He hasn't been burned yet, but those types of moves eventually will burn him (and any other GM) the same way the Cubs got burned by the Garland-for-Karchner deal. Moves like the first Javy deal, the first Freddy deal, the Thome deal, etc. are usually considered the riskiest, but IMO they aren't all that risky because you pretty much know you'll be winning that trade, and if one of your former prospects does break out, at least you got a proven star/borderline star in return. Agree, but more than anything I think the problem is that they sucked. The back of the rotation was a mess; the bullpen always had some s***ty, unreliable pitchers; the offense had nothing much at the top to begin the season, and nothing much at the bottom all year long; and the guys in the middle were not doing what guys in the middle need to be doing. Oh, and the team defense was atrocious, as was pretty much every other element of fundamental baseball. Had the Sox been a better team I think they would have clicked just fine. We'll always have some veteran leaders, and as far as I'm concerned, there's no better leadership than that by example, and there's no better example than solid play. And really, if AJ, Buehrle, and Peavy were the main veteran leaders of this club then I can't see that being anything but a good thing. Agree with all the rest too. How come you're not around here as much anymore, Caulfield? I was waiting for W. Taveras to be acquired, lol? Actually, have just been busy here at my university in Thailand and teaching ESL as my second job, also travelled to Taiwan. I guess the disappointing end to the 2009 baseball season....the Yankees again on top of the baseball world...needed spring training to get closer in the rear-view mirror b4 I got excited again. That and the fact that Univ. of Iowa basketball has become an embarassment, so I guess I have to talk about some sports now. But it sure feels strange to be running the air conditioning when my mom in Iowa is talking about a white Christmas. Well, at least I have seen Avatar two times...that's one accomplishment of the last week, haha.

QUOTE (SoxFanInDallas @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 08:41 AM) The Rangers will NOT trade Hamilton. First off, most of his injuries are related to playing ALL OUT as a center fielder. So, to hopefully help prevent those injuries, they are moving him to Left or Right, I forget which one exactly. Secondly, he is cheap. They are not going to get that much potential at the plate and in the field for such a small salary elsewhere. Finally, even though he slipped up last year, he is still a feel-good story here. Texas is part of the bible-belt, and Texans like stories like his where he is turning his life around and preaching the word. So, that helps at the box office, which, given the teams finances, they need. GO SOX! Well, there's no doubt Hamilton having an MVP type year individually means more to the Rangers than for Quentin to do that on a "so-so" or .500 White Sox team.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 08:41 AM) Baserunning errors I don't want to comment on...but defensive errors in the OF, I still give 2006 the win there. Pods actually looked/seemed decent this year, even in CF....but he was close to atrocious in his earlier stint. I wonder what happened to cause him to improve in that area? Then you have Dye's "cement shoes" and horrible throwing mechanics in RF, and Mackowiak's adventures after replacing Anderson in CF.

There's something else lost in the productive outs conversation. The White Sox have traditionally been a three run homer and a cloud of dust type of offense in the last decade, particularly in 2000 and 2006. Ozzie obviously wants to change the mindset of the team, to find players who have the "small ball/fundamental" skills to manufacture runs when the big boppers are all struggling and most of the games are tight because of our #3 in all of MLB starting pitching staff. I think there was something about that 2005 team, despite their average or below average offensive output...not just defensively, but they really seemed to care for each other, pull for each other, Iguchi was one of the quiet, understated examples of that idea. It's hard to see it in the box scores or stats, but they will never measure the contributions of a player like him effectively. When you see the likes of Wise, Owens, Anderson, Lillibridge, Fields, Corky Miller, etc., flailing away and often having no understand of game situations or how to execute properly, it rubs off on the rest of the team...it seems most of the players were "selfish" last year in their approaches. Look at Quentin and Ramirez for example, very rarely did you see them change from at-bat to at-bat in terms of making adjustments. Ramirez was very good at that in 2008, so-so last year. Quentin almost never went to the opposite field...I think Thome might have done it more often that CQ last year. The one thing you can say is that across the board, this team has become more veteran/experienced off the bench and more athletic in the starting line-up and defensively. How that translates to wins and losses will be interesting. I think defensively, we're better at every position (or should be) with the possible exception of 3B and then you know what you're getting with AJ. I think how atrocious our defense was had a tremendously negative impact on the whole team over the course of the year. I can't remember a White Sox team making so many defensive and baserunning errors in my lifetime.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 07:36 AM) Even if they had traded for Peavy in June they still wouldn't have assumed more than about $4.4M or so since Peavy had already been paid for the first week in June and 2 months in April and May, which is pretty much the same figure they took on with Rios and Peavy. I know what Kenny said because some of his comments pissed me off, but he doesn't always tell the truth. The point is, the Sox didn't add much, so we can't assume they had much to add. We don't get to see their books, and we don't know what all they spend on, so it's very hard to speculate. It's much easier to argue about how they spend the money we do know they have, and in that department, I think they have had a god awful offseason. I agree on what you said about Wise opening in CF too, that was absolutely horrid, and trades could have been made for league minimum players with at least *some* potential even if they had not wanted to add salary. A bunch of people here were arguing for Josh Anderson for example. That wouldn't have worked out, but if they would have made at least *some* kind of actual effort to *not* run Dewayne Wise out there, that would have been much appreciated by yours truly. I'm sure we could have also come up with someone comparable to what the D-Rays took for Edwin Jackson. That move alone would have swung the division in our favor...although it seems to me at the time the majority were arguing against him, maybe 60/40 against, if I remember correctly. As far as adding those contracts, it was always 2010-12 that was more the concern than anything else...it's sort of a shame that we had been waiting so long to get rid of Thome's deal (at least at last year's prices, before it was quite reasonable), Konerko's deal, Contreras, MacDougal, etc. It's even crazier to think that with Cabrera still around, we might not even have seen Beckham last year. KW really lucked out there, as many posters pointed out, he won that game of chicken but he wasn't going to go to well twice with the likes of Dotel this time around. Nevertheless, we are still/again in financial constraints to an extent because of Jenks, Konerko, Linebrink and the Rios/Peavy deals, with Rios being far and away the riskiest move KW has ever made in terms of the impact on future budgeting and putting us in a difficult position like the Tigers got into (although they have 5-7 large/questionable contracts, not just a couple, with Willis/Sheffield/Guillen/Ordonez/Robertson/Bonderman coming to mind right away, off the top of my head). No doubt something was awry with our chemistry last year, and it's strange considering we shed Cabrera and Swisher, who quite a few argued were a large part of the problem. Of course, some will say the "presence/moxie" of Rowand in the past or Joe Crede is what made the difference....Carl Everett, for that matter. There was something missing last year, you could never quite put your finger on it. I'm sure after Konerko is gone that many will be saying we're missing a "leader" in the clubhouse to go along with the likes of Buerhle and AJ....Dye and Thome were always very "quiet" leaders, not very vocal. It's going to have to come from Ozzie and that starting pitching staff, because we have so many players like Quentin, Ramirez and Rios that are, at best, enigmatic. I'm wondering how soon Beckham will make his presence felt? Going into the season, he very well might be our best offensive player, especially if Quentin doesn't return to form.

QUOTE (1977 sox fan @ Dec 20, 2009 -> 05:15 AM) the reason i feel they might trade him is because he had a down year also he was hurt and he is a risk . also if you look the Rangers have a lot of OFS even in there system there deep especially left handed hitters . but i admit it would cost us something but he would still be cheaper then UPTON and much more cheaper then AGON . i admit i don't know his true value and if say Hudson and another prospect could do it or is Hudson to much to trade but i do think we can get him for a package of prospects . I'm 95% sure that KW would trade Hudson and other lower tier prospects (maybe even Jordan Danks) for Josh Hamilton. Eric Hinske is another bat to keep an eye on him, he's more of what I expect from the way things have been going...hopefully the sum of all the parts working together in 2010 will be much greater than how they look individually.

I hope he wasn't thinking that Thome would be too expensive based on his recently-completed contract from the Phillies. You don't want to pay him so little he feels insulted, but Thome is a trooper and something in the vicinity of $2.5-3.5 million should get it done. That's IF Ozzie and KW want to bring him back.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 01:38 AM) Well, yeah. All teams do that. It's pretty clear that the White Sox view their market as pretty inelastic...that there is a hardcore, dedicated season ticket base than will keep renewing, almost no matter what the circumstances. It's the 80/20 rule of sports marketing, that 80% of the revenue will be derived from the same 20% of the attendance, namely the season ticket buyers. Of course, in 2006, there was a big jump because of the World Series championship and what looked like an extended run of playoff appearances being set up, but almost all of the positive effects of winning a World Series are exhausted within five years...when things return to normal, which is essentially where we're at with the White Sox franchise. I'm not sure what it is about that marketplace in Chicago, but it is interesting the cost of living is a lot higher in Southern California (in general) and yet White Sox/Cubs ticket prices and parking, concessions, etc., are a higher across the board than costs for Dodgers or Angels games. To me, over the years, it seems like the best promotion has been the fireworks nights in terms of producing strong numbers...of course, those are almost always weekend games, too, which is another factor. Having worked for a minor league baseball team for two years, half-price nights during the week (especially before or after the summer hits and school lets out) and "half-priced beer/Thirsty Thursday/Two For Tuesday" promotions didn't have a significant impact on increasing overall revenues...and the more you discount the core price of a ticket, the more upset your season ticket holders and devalue the worth of a White Sox ticket, making it harder to encourage fans to pay legit prices when they can easily get tickets for free or discount. Now most major league teams don't discount beer...and they are also perhaps more conscious about alienating the fanbase by promoting nights where drunks take over the stadiums and scare the "family crowd" away. Perhaps they could try to discount parking during the week, that's another idea. One of the first things that most fans bring up about Comiskey is the high price of parking, for some reason, that specific issue sticks in the "craw" of lots of fans. The most successful promotions were always the give-away nights, where people paid regular ticket prices but got something "pretty decent" free for themselves or their kids...these kind of nights, which depend upon the sales and marketing department, are what really drive the revenues up for most teams who break even or lose money from Monday through Thursday is the majority of major league markets.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2009 -> 08:34 PM) I was pretty clear on the economy reality of the situation that the Sox were preparing for. In fact, I have been borne out pretty correct in most of my predictions about how much teams that weren't as prudent would get into trouble, and you only have to look at our division to see that playing out now. The Sox were very smart and ahead of the bell-curve in being ready for the problems. So much so that they have been able to take advantage of the situation of other teams to get guys like Peavy and Rios. Also after that same argument a million times you do realize that in the world of absolutes a few different things could have happened with the Sox. The first and most obvious is that the Sox prepared for a worst case scenario that did not happen. Like always the Sox invest their extra cash back into the team. The other is that revenue ended up being higher than anticipated. Another is that at the request of Kenny Williams, Jerry went back to the board and got extra cash from the investors that hadn't been there before. Another is that they moved funds over from other areas to pay for payroll raises. None of those scenarios means the Sox were cheap, like you said a million times. Too bad we weren't able to step in and get Edwin Jackson, Granderson or Cabrera. Dombrowski would have been grilled/vilified, although I'm sure at least half of Detroit wouldn't mind dumping Cabrera after the curious events of September, 2009. However, at least DET and CLE seem to be weakened to the point where they will struggle mightly to contend, leaving the White Sox and the Twins on their new field as the two main contenders left standing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2009 -> 07:30 AM) The tag team mods. If I bother you guys so much with logic, just ban me. It's Christmas season, enjoy your life and family...it's better to just disappear for awhile and return when you feel like calmly discussing White Sox baseball again. Go see Avatar, or go shopping. Getting upset isn't worth it, trust me. Been there, done that. We all love the White Sox, everyone feels passionately about OUR team and their own beliefs, it's normal that we don't see eye to eye all the time with all posters...but you would miss this site. No matter where I am living or what I am doing in life, I always come back to White Sox baseball in the end, it's kind of like an addiction/religion that even seasons like 2007 and 2009 can't come close to extinguishing. Most of Generation X remembers what the late 70's and 80's were like at Old Comiskey Park. We survived for so long, and now we'll always have 2005 and that parade to remember, even if some families went a generation or two in their lifetimes without a Sox playoff appearance.

We're back to the same problem with Delgado, on multiple occasions he hasn't waived no trade clauses or has basically shown no desire to come here. As someone brought up earlier, I'm sure there is nothing contractual about standing for the playing of that song. It's one of these silly arguments, like candidates for political office have to wear American flag pins to prove they're patriotic. What would be interesting for me to see would be if an American baseball player playing winter ball or in the World Baseball Classic refused to stand for the Puerto Rican national anthem at a game in San Juan...would Delgado also be receptive to that? It's kind of like the "King's Anthem" which is played before movies here in Thailand...even if I am the only person in the theatre, I stand out of respect, even though he's not my king. If I remember correctly, wasn't there something going on with the bombing grounds in Puerto Rico for US planes? I can't remember if the specific event which precipitated Delgado's actions was the war in Iraq or something more specific to PR. In the end, I don't mind his actions, as long as he's consistent. Roberto Clemente is my favorite player of all-time and he was never afraid to throw himself into the middle of any argument or to speak his mind. In the end, it's what got him killed...as he boarded a dangerously-overloaded old plane just because he was so determined to ensure that earthquake relief supplies got to their intended recipients.

QUOTE (Voros @ Dec 21, 2009 -> 01:01 AM) Okay here's my theoretical 25 man roster (again I was asked): C - Pierzynski C - Erik Kratz (journeyman minor leaguer with a good glove and decent bat - league min) 1B - Konerko/Nick Johnson 2B - Getz/Nix platoon SS - Ramirez/Beckham 3B - Beckham/Ramirez LF - Quentin CF - Rick Ankiel/Rios (Ankiel at about a WAG of around $3 mil/yr) RF - Rios/Ankiel DH - Nick Johnson/Konerko (Johnson at about $6 mil/yr) IF - Nix/Getz IF - Mike McCoy (the Rockies waived him and the Jays claimed him before the White Sox turn, but you could have gotten him before then, league min) OF - Ryan Langerhans (non-tendered by the Mariners on the 12th and then re-signed a week later. Defensive specialist, league minimum or close to it) SP1 - Peavy SP2 - Danks SP3 - Buerhle SP4 - Floyd SP5 - Garcia/Hudson/Torres RP - Jenks RP - Thornton RP - Linebrink RP - Pena RP - Torres/Garcia (if Hudson's not starting I'd prefer him in AAA) RP - R.J. Swindle (minor league lefty killer currently on an NRI for the Rays, league min) RP - Chris Bootcheck or a guy like him (have a sort of open competition with guys like this in ST and see who looks the best. all league min) And I'm under the current amount spent. So if I see a reliever I really like for under $2 million, I can pounce. There's other guys you could go after like Andruw or Gabe Gross who would be useful additions to the team and wouldn't cost much. Freddy Dolsi wasn't a terrible pickup as he's a groundball specialist and they can be useful out of the pen, though I think he's a little hittable. I think this team is better than the current one and doesn't cost any more. I don't think it's a great team, but then that has a lot to do with a poor minor league system and some questionable existing long term big money contracts. The biggest risks (other than maybe Ankiel) are in spots where a flop doesn't really hurt you too bad and you can change courses pretty quickly. A guy like Swindle, despite his clear weaknesses, he throws strikes and lefties just don't seem to hit him at all and therefore should be more than adequate as a back of the pen platoon specialist. To me, little pickups like that are how you put together a bench: cheap with a little bit of potential should things break your way. Didn't we already do this coming into a prior year when we auditioned multiple left-handed relievers as well and traded the best of them in Javier Lopez to the Red Sox? It certainly was what happened coming into 2009. Kratz=Corky Miller, McCoy and Langerhans would represent the likes of Lillibridge/Anderson/Owens/Wise/Fields... Essentially, it's all "roster filler" and you can dress it up however you want to, the only big differences are Rick Ankiel and Nick Johnson. Now if you're KW, do I think it would have been better in retrospect to have spent the money on Ankiel/Johnson instead of claiming Rios? Undoubtedly...but he has to live with that decision. You're still left with a ton of question marks relying on Johnson and especially Ankiel....You're also glossing over the fact that Ozzie's comfort level as manager with veterans is considerably higher, instead of KW adding multiple question marks throughout the roster (as KW did heading into 09), at least he (Ozzie) feels more comfortable and knows exactly what he has with Pierre, Jones, Vizquel and Kotsay. Ozzie really really struggled managing that group (Miller/Lillibridge/Wise/Anderson/Wise/Fields/Nix) the first 2-3 months of the season. It's apparent KW wanted to address that issue as quickly as possible so it wouldn't recur in 2010. Was/is it building the roster backwards? We'll just have to wait and see. It's definitely a much different approach than he's taken in the past with setting up the roster. There's absolutely no reason that Bootcheck or Swindle (if you told me it was Greg Swindell in his prime I would have been more optimistic instead of feeling "swindled" like Dick Allen would going into the season with your roster) will do any better than the likes of Freddie Dolsi. KW has tried every approach in the book to the bullpen, from overspending on middle relievers and set-up guys to having open tryouts of other teams' castaways to taking fliers on Jenks and Thornton when many had already written them off. Still, it feels like our hope is to hang within hailing distance of Minnesota and then make another set of mid-season roster adjustments.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 20, 2009 -> 12:36 PM) If Putz comes out electric, and Jenks continues his '09 performance...it will be frustrating to see how the business side will get in the way of them putting Putz in the right role. At least that will be the accusation if the trigger isnt pulled fast enough. I like getting Dolsi if for no other fact that it seems like it's been a few years now where we dont have a stable of possible, ready bullpen arms to go to. As long as Ehren Wasserman was a real possibility for our pen, I knew we didnt have viable relief help on the farm. Last year it seemed like everything viable was on the major league roster, as evidenced by Poreda being up out of necessity. Do you guys think the Sox......for trade value concerns... kind of 'managed' Poreda's ERA last year with the infrequent situations he was put in? If so, another reliever should have been up instead of him (if one was around). And also, will it happen again this year in a sense with Tyler Flowers or Hudson...? Of course, you really have to believe KW knew all along that Poreda was one of the most coveted pieces in our system, especially going into last year. Obviously there were concerns he would never become a starter all along...that he was essentially being marketed to teams around the league as part of a package to get something bigger/better in return. Thank god Clayton Richard became much more than just a LOOGY and pitched so well enough that he could be shipped off along with Poreda to get Peavy in return. If Flowers and Hudson brought back someone like A-Gonzalez, nobody would sweat it TOO much. We'd merely say, well, look how many of KW's prospect trades in the past have turned out busts? Phil Rogers doesn't even have Chris Young to hype anymore, all he can do is bring up Javier Vazquez or the non-return from Swisher (Viciedo-Marquez-Nunez-Betemit) so far. I guess there's always C. Carter and our former future Cliff Floyd from the LH side...because the Cunningham and Sweeney fan groups have quieted down quite a bit, too.

Well, it never would have happened because Dombrowski wouldn't have traded him to another ALCD rival anyway. Seems the ONLY time that happens is with relievers going from the Royals to the White Sox (names like Sisco, MacDougal, Carrasco, Sisco, H. Ramirez, David Riske, Sullivan, etc., come to mind)... On second thought, seems Riske ended up with Royals after Sox failed to offer him arbitration?

Well, if Dolsi COULD (Coop will fix him, trademark) develop a secondary pitch, he would be absolutely nasty, not unlike Rodney when he has the change-up/fastball combination going. Now we know that strategy DIDN'T work with the aforementioned list of pitchers like Aardsma, Sisco and Masset, not to mention Aaron Poreda and Matt Thornton. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he could get on a roll for at least half a season like Politte did in 2005. I would say (comparing this to the "condition" in which we acquired Cliffie) that I am/was more optimistic hearing about Dolsi coming in that the orginal Politte acquisition when it happened...maybe even more positive than I felt about Hermanson. As far as Jenks goes, he's never really had two legitimately-touted candidated (Putz and Thornton) vying for his job. MacDougal wasn't brought in for that function, neither was Octavio Dotel. There has/had never been more rumors about his being traded or being non-tendered. Contract incentives were placed in the Putz deal specifically as "Option B" to Jenks, AND because they didn't have to improve Thornton's "bargain" contract. MAYBE, just MAYBE, it will be the kick in the seat of the pants that he (BBBJ) really needs to get back on track. We know that he's been capable of really getting it into the upper 90's occasionally, but those adrenaline-pumping moments have been few and far between with the exception of the last two months of the 2008 season. You might take the bet that Jenks would have 30-35 saves (or more) going into this season with a Vegas sports book, but I'm not sure that I would. Still, as has been argued repeatedly, you can't afford to trade him for less than equal value or just cut him loose. The risk is too high that Putz would/will fail and that the bullpen would implode, with all the starting pitching in the world not being enough to carry the offense and shoddy pen.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2009 -> 08:16 PM) I always thought of Aardsma's career with the Sox unwinding after he threw 4 straight balls to a Twins hitter with the bases loaded in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th or 10th, giving them the game. That is the absolute last recollection I have of Aards in a Sox uniform. And I have thought, even since that point, as losing Aardsma as a mistake. Well, Aarsdma has definitely been something of an enigma his entire career, just like MacDougal. You never know, Dolsi has a pretty electric arm, and was considered untouchable just 2 years ago. So unpredictable what you're going to get with relievers, but I feel a LITTLE bit better having Pena and Dolsi, that ONE of them can have a breakout/comeback season. The only thing we feel confident in going into 2010 might be Linebrink being pretty good in the first half...because we still have no idea what we're going to get out of Jenks and Putz, and even Thornton has had his moments of occasional struggle with the Sox, usually when he gets behind in the count or becomes too predictable or loses command.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2009 -> 06:29 PM) That's because no one has ever actually said Cooper fixes everyone. The argument is dumb, because you are attributing things as fact, which aren't. And honestly, with the same three things that you repeat over and over and over again, I hardly ever respond anymore, because it is fully pointless. 1) I love Greg Walker. 2) JR and KW, boo, boo, boo!!!! White Sox are cheap. Actually, considering many posters (including myself) have been accused of being boring/predictable, I think it's nice that there a few who are always reliable and consistent in "spinning" most White Sox news in a certain way. It gives the site some balance...it would be tremendously boring if we were in agreement or had consensus the majority of the time. Reminds me of past debates over issues like Willy Taveras, Brian Anderson or Nix/Getz...or the now steadily recurring stats/OBP versus 'scouting/eyeballs' which was first highlighted by Moneyball/The Blind Side author Michael Lewis.... Reminds me a little of the Copenhagen Summit, maddening at times, but still the "big tent" is far better than the "censorship/my way or the highway/it's our board, so shut up" approach prevalent at other Sox sites.

Well, Cotts certainly did better when he was throwing harder out of the bullpen than as a starter. MacDougal has been incredibly inconsistent throughout his career, mostly because of strikezone command (or lack thereof). No matter what speed he pitches at (anywhere from 92-98), his pitches seemingly have a ton of movement, which is a large part of the problem. I think they simply told him in the end to aim at the center of the plate and forget about everything else they had tried to teach him...of course, pitching for the Nationals is a lot different than for the White Sox in terms of pressure. Same thing with Aardsma and Masset, to a lesser degree. Aardsma wasn't ready to be a closer for the White Sox (his failures, after pitching like Linebrink's April-June 08 or Cotts/Politte in 05) and his career really went downhill after giving up a walk-bomb to someone on the Tigers, I think it was Monroe or Thames, one of those guys. He was always reputed to have the lowest amount of confidence, and you saw that in the second half last year with the M's again as he was far from consistent. I think Maaset is probably the most interesting case. I'm not sure what happened...it seemed there was confusion about his role and what to do with him, but he was never close to 95-100 for most of his time with the Sox. Of course, we all know that even Joel Zumaya gets lit up at that speed when everyone knows what's coming. But if Nick really was throwing 3-5 MPH harder with the Reds, maybe it was simply that he decided it was better to go with power and give up a little command, because of his lack of movement. Contreras and Garland, to name just a couple, always seemed to have a lot more life and (dead ball effect) at lower speeds, although when Jose was it his best in 05/06, he was consistently at 95-96-97 with every FB, and the increase in velocity probably has something to do with the air/altitude/cold in Colorado. It's not like he did that well there, he was considering a Japanese League team the last I read about him.