caulfield12

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 26, 2009 -> 04:54 PM) Didn't he sign a two year deal? Kenny will try his best to sign Chone Figgins. That's been his guy. He could be had for 3-4 years and $8-9 million per year. You put Figgins at either 3B or 2B and you position Beckham where ever Figgins isn't playing. Ramirez should stay at SS. I don't want him near the OF. He could make Alfonso Soriano-like mistakes out there. A mistake by a SS usually results with a man on first. A mistake in the outfield usually results with a man on second or third. I'd love Matt Holliday, but he's a Boras client. If we fail to bring in good DH or corner OF, re-sign Dye. I think there's an option (at the very least) on Hudson's deal. So you really believe Ramirez would be worse out there in CF than Scotty Pods? Really? And I'm not sure about having less of an affect on the game at SS...what is the ratio of Total Chances for a SS versus a CF? Any infield with Beckham, Ramirez and Figgins is pretty scary defensively, to say the least. Interesting decisions about what happens with Pods and Getz in many future White Sox scenarios for 2010. As for those advocating Dunn, why would we dream of paying him almost the same as Thome in this market?

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 06:33 PM) In case you haven't noticed, it's taking a lot to get rent-a-players. Just look at what the Indians got last year for Sabathia and what the A's just got for Holliday. Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson, Rob Bryson, and Michael Brantley for Sabathia. Brett Wallace, Clayton Mortensen, Shane Peterson for Holliday. Am I saying Dotel's on the same level as Sabathia or Holliday? No. Am I saying we should expect one of those types of mega-packages for Dotel? No. Lambo is a very good prospect, not an elite one. And that's just one prospect. Dotel is a type A FA and would net two draft picks if we or a team he was traded to offered him arbitration. All that said, he certainly has good value on the trade market. Dotel should be able to net Lambo or a Lambo type of player straight up, especially if a team is desperate for relief help. Like the White Sox?

Martinez would certainly play 1B and replace Loney. Really, really gusty move, though, to give up Billingsley and definitely Kershaw.

Nix is the perfect fit as a utility guy. Fields either needs to be playing 3B everyday in Chicago or Charlotte OR traded for the highest possible return.

I don't know if we should do anything other than "stand pat" until the end of the month...or sell off Dotel, Anderson and MAYBE Josh Fields if we can find "buyers" for them that make it worth our while. Still have mixed feelings about Fields, because our back-ups in the minors essentially are CJ Retherford, Morel and Viciedo. It's going to be a tough decision on moving Beckham to 2B and what to do with Fields. If they get knocked out of the race, I'd love to seem them move Beckham to SS and try Ramirez in CF for the remainder of the season, playing Fields at 3B...that way we'd have a much better read on Beckham defensively at SS, Alexei's CF defense, and whether Getz and/or Fields should be penciled in as "everyday" starters coming into 2010. Of course, that means moving Pods to a back-up role, which he doesn't really deserve based on his level of play...he could still alternate with Quentin or they could just shut down Quentin for the rest of the season, too.

We have always played the Red Sox and Yankees pretty tough. We did a great job with the Rays, it's just that Twins series (both teams might be coming off historic 4 game sweepings) in the Dome that looms even more scary. All things considered, the Tigers and Twins should be co-favorites to win the division at this point, with the obvious advantage to the Tigers because of their lead.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/51...L7PQLanchO7DiUr Pretty complimentary article from our biggest rival's hometown newspaper. "Add it up and the White Sox look like the best team in the AL Central, despite losing the first three games of their series with division- leading Detroit this weekend." The White Sox play the Yankees 7 times, Red Sox 8 times, Angels 6 times, Seattle 6 times (27 games)... 16 of those games are on the road... All of those teams are tough and would be winning the AL Central if they were in it (except Seattle but the would only be 1 GB).... That doesn't include the times they play the twins (9 games, 5-4 head to head) and tigers (7 games, 4-7 head to head, on the road at DET to end the season)... The Tigers play @ Red Sox 4 times, @ Angles 3 times, Tampa Bay 7 times, Seattle 3 times, they also play @ texas, and toronto........ 64 games remaing for White Sox, 43 of them described as "very tough." It's going to take a major miracle or a injury to key elements of the Twins or Tigers to pull this off.

Of course, Nathan was a failed starter with SF, same as Foulke. Jenks, in the Angels' organization. Won't go through all the examples, except disagreeing with the fact that Jenks perhaps has too many pitches (like a starter) but not any one dominant pitch that's a go-to pitch the last couple of weeks out. At least not a pitch he can use with 100% confidence, consistency and command in the zone. The main reason Jenks can't start is stamina/conditioning and injury concerns. Perhaps the best example of a team riding it out with a "horrible" closer was Mr. Jones in DET last year. I do think they would have pulled him and tried Zumaya in that role, had he been healthy. And Rodney was very bad 2-3 seasons ago (always had the raw stuff, though) and now he's becoming very effective again in 08/09. In our division, you'd have to rank them Nathan/Soria/Rodney/Jenks and then Wood. That's five pretty good pitchers, at least Wood and Jenks were effective until this season, and 22/26 still at least LOOKS decent on paper, despite the 4.33 ERA.

Is the cost of acquiring Sherrill close to worth it? Wouldn't it be better, if we did pull Jenks, to at least give Thornton a shot at the job first? You'd hate to give away a big piece of our future offense in Tyler Flowers when this team could be knocked completely out of the race in the next 10 days of the season...

It's not the 3 versus 4 blown saves. That game against the Angels, it's over if Nathan doesn't TIP the ball (fluke 1) and then it bounced right off the bag (fluke 2) when the game easily would have been over with neither eventuality occuring. I've listened to and watched a lot of Twins' games over the years. Nathan's "fall" is a little like Mo Rivera's...he's great still, but not unbeatable anymore or like Superman. Jenks has CONSISTENTLY and VISIBLY been struggling with both his stuff and confidence. You don't get the same feeling from watching Nathan. If Nathan and Jenks were both put on the market today, Nathan could get you a Fernando Martinez (if the Mets were close to being in it, just as an example). He's still THAT good.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 05:34 PM) I don't think you make those decisions based on schedule. And, ironically, the White Sox usually do fairly well (over the last ten years or so especially) against the Yankees and Red Sox. But there's no recovery from getting run out of town and swept by both the Tigers and the Twins...what it will do is re-energize the Twins probably and catapult them back into the race the remaining two months.

I would have created a poll, but don't have the energy. Is there anyone who could actually do any better and come out of "nowhere" like Jenks did in 2005? Dotel? Thornton? Pena? Are ANY of those options NOT going to be demonstrably WORSE? The one we keep speculating about is Thornton...but there's lots of counter-evidence about suitability for that role. And we have what in the minors? Nunez? Link? Santeliz? It's looking like Jenks might turn into another Joe Crede and we'll wish we would have traded him this past off-season. I hope this team recovers enough to win ONE game tomorrow, or you really start speculating about the season that looked so promising just days ago completely slipping away. Fathom was right, even though it's not 8 games out (possibly 4 games out), heading straight into a tsunami of a schedule without a bullpen...this team has been the biggest tease of the last decade, at least since 2003. Was there anyone who felt we were actually going to win the game heading into the top of the 10th? Not many, if there were. Ozzie needs to do something to shake this team up, but I'm not sure what that is...or if pulling Jenks from the closer's role in the 2nd half will do anything but make things even worse.

What a swing of emotions over the course of four games...I was thinking we were just going to take off as a team like in 2003, but that was a pipedream to think this team could replicate the 2nd half of 2003 or that these Tigers are as vulnerable as those Royals were.

What are the odds of the Sox recovering from a 4 game sweep, if it were to happen? Feels like the entire season is on the line, but if Jenks can't be the closer anymore...it's pretty much history for us anyway. The only hope is that the Twins have been equally worse in recent days, if not more abysmal.

QUOTE (nastymasty21 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:05 AM) They need to sure up the bullpen somehow. Linebrink is god awful. Thornton is the only one I feel comfortable with. He failed last night, but what do you expect when he comes in to clean up linebrinks mess all the time. Its time to let Thornton start the 8th. In other words, he is now officially your second best pitcher and starts the 8th (no matter what), which prevents him from coming on with runners on base...which always seems to cause him a hiccup, like Jenks in a tie game or blowout. Heck, if Jenks doesn't get it back together (and he will be pressed these next few weeks by top competition)...we might have to use Thornton, Dotel or Pena as our closer. With Jenks and Linebrink iffy, it's going to be tough. Every ALCD has its obvious and well-documented flaws though. For the Tigers: 1) Offense, offense, offense....Everett, Raburn, Thomas, Polanco, Ordonez all inconsistent or struggling, and Laird's a defense-first catcher 2) Bullpen 3) Back end of the rotation 4) Pitch counts/IP for Verlander, Jackson and Porcello 5) Carlos Guillen's again apparently healthy, BUT can he be a full-time DH without getting hurt again? You'd have to think a healthy Jake Peavy approved trade and we take the division (along with healthy Quentin)...right now, the odds are about 20-25% Although having more road games than home games isn't as much of a concern as last year. But no GOP National Convention to send the Twins into a tailspin, either.

Once again, we're looking at definitely losing Flowers if we traded for Sherrill. I guess you take a good arm (right or left) wherever you can get it, but the White Sox will pay an additional premium because he's a LHP, and the biggest weakness in our pen right now (assuming Jenks is actually okay) has been Linebrink and to a lesser extent, Dotel and Carrasco. Although Pena has shown some flashes, he's been erratic, as well.

Does anyone believe KW's recent comments have led to even ONE solitary White Sox "casual" fans attending a game out of "pity" for our poor economic situation...versus simply having a contending/exciting team that had been playing well and was much more fun to watch than in the first two weeks of the season?

QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 01:45 AM) It seems all of you guys are saying it is more a matter of the hitting and not the pitching? But the defense woes have also hurt us. I try to understand the errors at SS/3rd with both Slayer and Alexei playing out of position but the pitching is what concerns me most. Yeah the hitting is also very problematic. Just not consistent enough then to put a real finger on it? Is it our scouting that's poor? Defensive positioning? Pitching against the defense? Inge hit the ball where Alexei was playing Thames, and he played too far into the hole to get to a "routine" ball hit up the middle. If Ramirez is overcompensating for not being able to go right as we as he moves and throws to the left, can anyone else play the position with more range, besides Nix? I'm sure if the team felt a huge benefit would accrue from Beckham at SS and Ramirez at 2B with Getz/Nix as back-ups, then you'd see a trade forcing a Wigginton/Mora/Kouzamanoff into that position for at least one or two years...or Fields playing everyday over there (again).

Well, our offense was only hitting .241 at home...pretty hard to win any division when you don't have a clear home field advantage like we did last year. This team might end up potentially better (with a healthy Quentin) and the line-up (minus clutch hitting today) has been firing since Beckham and Pods injected life....but there have to be huge red flags now with the bullpen and back of the rotation...although Contreras, Colon, Richard and Torres all had good outings recently.

The Hunter contract could have been crippling in years 4 and 5, but how valuable would he have been in 2008/09/10? Probably not worth the risk at his age. Fukudome and Rowand, we really lucked out on, not signing. Of course, if we miss the playoffs, everyone will say we would have made it with Swisher and Javy.

Our bullpen is absolutely garbage right now...and our clutch hitting, non-existent.

I thought it was the Twins who were done with the 3 best AL East teams....not the Tigers. But the Tigers have the favorable home series against us and the Twins the last week of the season.

Well, Colon will be pulled pretty soon. Like first game, a lot of missed offensive opportunities...should have scored more against Bonine and Seay. Still don't understand why Alexei is playing so far into the hole (on Thames)...that should have been a routine groundout up the middle instead of a single. Did anyone think Richard, Torres and Colon would pitch as well as they did? WOW.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 05:33 PM) Nope. Sox had no reason to trade him, and as such, should be haunted by his success. Just wait until Linebrink/Dotel/Jenks go on the DL...then we will see the logic behind KW's thinking, or when Dotel is traded...and the prospect/s we get to replace Allen.

Agree with everything you said except for the significance of Carrasco and our concern about him getting a payday in arbitration. We let a much better pitcher in David Riske get away without offering him arbitration. I suppose it could be a bit dependent on what happens with Dotel/Linebrink and Pena, but keeping Carrasco around is issue #10-15 on KW's offseason board. Yes, Ozzie likes him a lot, but he's not an integral part of our future either. If KW thinks he'll be too expensive, he will give that position to Nunez, Santeliz, Omogrosso, Link, Rodriguez, Russell, Fr. Hernandez, etc.