caulfield12

What are the odds of the Sox recovering from a 4 game sweep, if it were to happen? Feels like the entire season is on the line, but if Jenks can't be the closer anymore...it's pretty much history for us anyway. The only hope is that the Twins have been equally worse in recent days, if not more abysmal.

QUOTE (nastymasty21 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:05 AM) They need to sure up the bullpen somehow. Linebrink is god awful. Thornton is the only one I feel comfortable with. He failed last night, but what do you expect when he comes in to clean up linebrinks mess all the time. Its time to let Thornton start the 8th. In other words, he is now officially your second best pitcher and starts the 8th (no matter what), which prevents him from coming on with runners on base...which always seems to cause him a hiccup, like Jenks in a tie game or blowout. Heck, if Jenks doesn't get it back together (and he will be pressed these next few weeks by top competition)...we might have to use Thornton, Dotel or Pena as our closer. With Jenks and Linebrink iffy, it's going to be tough. Every ALCD has its obvious and well-documented flaws though. For the Tigers: 1) Offense, offense, offense....Everett, Raburn, Thomas, Polanco, Ordonez all inconsistent or struggling, and Laird's a defense-first catcher 2) Bullpen 3) Back end of the rotation 4) Pitch counts/IP for Verlander, Jackson and Porcello 5) Carlos Guillen's again apparently healthy, BUT can he be a full-time DH without getting hurt again? You'd have to think a healthy Jake Peavy approved trade and we take the division (along with healthy Quentin)...right now, the odds are about 20-25% Although having more road games than home games isn't as much of a concern as last year. But no GOP National Convention to send the Twins into a tailspin, either.

Once again, we're looking at definitely losing Flowers if we traded for Sherrill. I guess you take a good arm (right or left) wherever you can get it, but the White Sox will pay an additional premium because he's a LHP, and the biggest weakness in our pen right now (assuming Jenks is actually okay) has been Linebrink and to a lesser extent, Dotel and Carrasco. Although Pena has shown some flashes, he's been erratic, as well.

Does anyone believe KW's recent comments have led to even ONE solitary White Sox "casual" fans attending a game out of "pity" for our poor economic situation...versus simply having a contending/exciting team that had been playing well and was much more fun to watch than in the first two weeks of the season?

QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 01:45 AM) It seems all of you guys are saying it is more a matter of the hitting and not the pitching? But the defense woes have also hurt us. I try to understand the errors at SS/3rd with both Slayer and Alexei playing out of position but the pitching is what concerns me most. Yeah the hitting is also very problematic. Just not consistent enough then to put a real finger on it? Is it our scouting that's poor? Defensive positioning? Pitching against the defense? Inge hit the ball where Alexei was playing Thames, and he played too far into the hole to get to a "routine" ball hit up the middle. If Ramirez is overcompensating for not being able to go right as we as he moves and throws to the left, can anyone else play the position with more range, besides Nix? I'm sure if the team felt a huge benefit would accrue from Beckham at SS and Ramirez at 2B with Getz/Nix as back-ups, then you'd see a trade forcing a Wigginton/Mora/Kouzamanoff into that position for at least one or two years...or Fields playing everyday over there (again).

Well, our offense was only hitting .241 at home...pretty hard to win any division when you don't have a clear home field advantage like we did last year. This team might end up potentially better (with a healthy Quentin) and the line-up (minus clutch hitting today) has been firing since Beckham and Pods injected life....but there have to be huge red flags now with the bullpen and back of the rotation...although Contreras, Colon, Richard and Torres all had good outings recently.

The Hunter contract could have been crippling in years 4 and 5, but how valuable would he have been in 2008/09/10? Probably not worth the risk at his age. Fukudome and Rowand, we really lucked out on, not signing. Of course, if we miss the playoffs, everyone will say we would have made it with Swisher and Javy.

Our bullpen is absolutely garbage right now...and our clutch hitting, non-existent.

I thought it was the Twins who were done with the 3 best AL East teams....not the Tigers. But the Tigers have the favorable home series against us and the Twins the last week of the season.

Well, Colon will be pulled pretty soon. Like first game, a lot of missed offensive opportunities...should have scored more against Bonine and Seay. Still don't understand why Alexei is playing so far into the hole (on Thames)...that should have been a routine groundout up the middle instead of a single. Did anyone think Richard, Torres and Colon would pitch as well as they did? WOW.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 05:33 PM) Nope. Sox had no reason to trade him, and as such, should be haunted by his success. Just wait until Linebrink/Dotel/Jenks go on the DL...then we will see the logic behind KW's thinking, or when Dotel is traded...and the prospect/s we get to replace Allen.

Agree with everything you said except for the significance of Carrasco and our concern about him getting a payday in arbitration. We let a much better pitcher in David Riske get away without offering him arbitration. I suppose it could be a bit dependent on what happens with Dotel/Linebrink and Pena, but keeping Carrasco around is issue #10-15 on KW's offseason board. Yes, Ozzie likes him a lot, but he's not an integral part of our future either. If KW thinks he'll be too expensive, he will give that position to Nunez, Santeliz, Omogrosso, Link, Rodriguez, Russell, Fr. Hernandez, etc.

I think Colon has given up 8 or 9 homers in his last 20 IP. Note to KW, this is not going to work...

Wise made a lot of contact in the first game against Verlander...but it was a risky move. It's not like he's a high probability DP candidate. Would have liked to have seen Castro get a chance there. Wise saved one run today and gave one back...so he nullified his play on Granderson, basically.

For all those against Wise being in two consecutive games, do you really want to have him (CGQ) on his feet for 6-7 hours in one day? Or DHing against a RHP instead of Thome? There aren't really any other options, besides playing Nix in LF and Pods in CF...which makes no sense against a RHP, either.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) I hate that pussie Verlander almost as much as that pussie Punto on the Twins. He's got all this bravado, I wish we kicked him in the dick today....oh well More than Balfour? Punto is playing his way out of the starting line-up there, I love Twins players with OPS numbers in Punto/D.Young/Casilla/Buscher/Tolbert territory. Please, keep playing him Gardenhire. Brendan Harris is much more dangerous offensively...although I understand why Gardy prefers going defense first and expecting M&M Boys, Kubel, Cuddyer and Span to carry the load. The Twins would be in much better shape if Gomez or Young played up to their potential.

But if Nix can maintain an 800+ BA against lefties and play Gold Glove defense (unlike Betemit), those are two pretty valuable qualities...and he's inarguably a better back-up SS than Getz. Still, the bigger question going forward is not Nix but moving Beckham to 2B, going with Fields there again or making a veteran acquisition for 3B (although if the right 30-34 year old 2B, like an Alomar closer to his prime than when he actually came to the Sox would be an interesting option too, especially a leadoff hitter to provide insurance for Pods and maybe RH, to leadoff versus LHP)

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) from the Richard end you mean? Because Poreda is very young and I highly doubt any scout has changed their opinion on him (good or bad) because he had a few shaky outings pitching out of the pen, one of them coming after a huge layoff due to the all star break. I would say it's probably 60-70% Richard (he certainly reversed it a bit with his last outing, though)....30-40% disappointment with Poreda's fastball as well as overall stuff, vis a vis expectations.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 11:51 AM) Without knowing what the Sox think of him behind closed doors, I wouldn't complain if he got another chance, esp. if he played some winterball, worked on his swing, etc. We know Fields can legitimately hit MLB pitching, he's done so before. With Allen gone from our system, we're looking at having Getz, Beckham, Fields, Alexei, Konerko to cover the infield and DH positions next year prior to any trades or FA moves, with a hole in RF. It's plausible someone could be re-upped to fill 1 or 2 of those slots, but right now he has to be an option for next year, and hopefully the people in the back rooms feel like he's working better than Anderson did with the team and with the coaching staff. You're writing off Nix?

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 03:13 PM) Are you for real. He was fine. He got hurt only when he dropped down 1 too many times. Outside of that he was fine. He ran out of gas at the end, and should of been out of the game. With Colon pitching tonight, you figure guillen wants to keep the pen use to a minimum. Maybe it would have been more accurate to say "we'll never see the dominant Contreras" or a 17 game winning streak again out of Jose. We can't expect that, simply because that 94-97 MPH fastball is gone and will never be back at this point in his career. Historically, Jose has been better against the Tigers than he pitched today. Some of his most dominant outings have come against them, both at home and on the road. He's a 4th/5th starter now...maybe some of us were hoping he would have a much more extended run, where he put together a 10+ string of quality starts. All things considered, a 4.50-5.00 ERA out of Jose after the way he started is still a minor miracle. Maybe it's a little frustrating to see how well Vazquez and Aardsma are going, when a 4th/5th starter and RH bullpen arm are two huge issues for this team advancing. Remember all those threads about trading him at his peak value? Well, that window has been lost...just like it has to an extent with any deal centered around Poreda/Richard.

Wonder if it wouldn't have been better to have Colon go up against Verlander, and slot Contreras against Bonine instead? That's kind of a loser's mentality, though, where you're hoping for but not expecting the split. Everyone seems to already be jumping off the ledge because we were pretty flat today. That's silly. It's not like we lost in the same fashion the Twins have been losing in. If Contreras had been able to beat their ace, we would have been in a great position to go up 2 games in the standings. This, too, shall pass. By the way, did Harrelson give a "tip your caps" comment to Verlander? Does Dombrowski realize how crazy they are to keep throwing Verlander almost 130 pitches?

So, will we really fall 20% in revenue generation from 2008 to the 2009 season? Will we really spend $80 million or more going into 2010, if we "only" generate $160 million instead of $195-200 million?

1) Leyland is destroying Verlander and Jackson. Porcello is already wearing down. 2) The "bad" Contreras is back again....KW really should add another starter (5th) as insurance. 3) Even Beckham has his off days offensively. We just didn't make him pay early...but the guy was throwing much harder than Jenks does after 120+ pitches, into the 9th inning. 4) The team was due to be a little flat after yesterday...and the nightcap match-up is a better one for us.

The best thing we can say is that we're making Verlander work hard...73 pitches through 4, so he should make it into the 7th, but will more likely be gone in the 6th.

The fact is, even though we're consistently in the teens (right now at 18) in attendance, we're a top 8-10 team in terms of generating revenue. The attendance argument by JR and KW is always a bogus one because of this. But they've done a great job of brainwashing the fanbase into agreeing with them...that they're spending incredibly lavishly. Really, they just are spending what they should have in 2006-2008 based on the lower ($65 million) payroll in 2005 and all the profits generated by the 2005/06 seasons. Many studies have been done showing that the positive effects of winning a World Series on revenue production and ticket sales last for five seasons following the victory.