caulfield12

Agree with everything you said except for the significance of Carrasco and our concern about him getting a payday in arbitration. We let a much better pitcher in David Riske get away without offering him arbitration. I suppose it could be a bit dependent on what happens with Dotel/Linebrink and Pena, but keeping Carrasco around is issue #10-15 on KW's offseason board. Yes, Ozzie likes him a lot, but he's not an integral part of our future either. If KW thinks he'll be too expensive, he will give that position to Nunez, Santeliz, Omogrosso, Link, Rodriguez, Russell, Fr. Hernandez, etc.

I think Colon has given up 8 or 9 homers in his last 20 IP. Note to KW, this is not going to work...

Wise made a lot of contact in the first game against Verlander...but it was a risky move. It's not like he's a high probability DP candidate. Would have liked to have seen Castro get a chance there. Wise saved one run today and gave one back...so he nullified his play on Granderson, basically.

For all those against Wise being in two consecutive games, do you really want to have him (CGQ) on his feet for 6-7 hours in one day? Or DHing against a RHP instead of Thome? There aren't really any other options, besides playing Nix in LF and Pods in CF...which makes no sense against a RHP, either.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) I hate that pussie Verlander almost as much as that pussie Punto on the Twins. He's got all this bravado, I wish we kicked him in the dick today....oh well More than Balfour? Punto is playing his way out of the starting line-up there, I love Twins players with OPS numbers in Punto/D.Young/Casilla/Buscher/Tolbert territory. Please, keep playing him Gardenhire. Brendan Harris is much more dangerous offensively...although I understand why Gardy prefers going defense first and expecting M&M Boys, Kubel, Cuddyer and Span to carry the load. The Twins would be in much better shape if Gomez or Young played up to their potential.

But if Nix can maintain an 800+ BA against lefties and play Gold Glove defense (unlike Betemit), those are two pretty valuable qualities...and he's inarguably a better back-up SS than Getz. Still, the bigger question going forward is not Nix but moving Beckham to 2B, going with Fields there again or making a veteran acquisition for 3B (although if the right 30-34 year old 2B, like an Alomar closer to his prime than when he actually came to the Sox would be an interesting option too, especially a leadoff hitter to provide insurance for Pods and maybe RH, to leadoff versus LHP)

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) from the Richard end you mean? Because Poreda is very young and I highly doubt any scout has changed their opinion on him (good or bad) because he had a few shaky outings pitching out of the pen, one of them coming after a huge layoff due to the all star break. I would say it's probably 60-70% Richard (he certainly reversed it a bit with his last outing, though)....30-40% disappointment with Poreda's fastball as well as overall stuff, vis a vis expectations.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 11:51 AM) Without knowing what the Sox think of him behind closed doors, I wouldn't complain if he got another chance, esp. if he played some winterball, worked on his swing, etc. We know Fields can legitimately hit MLB pitching, he's done so before. With Allen gone from our system, we're looking at having Getz, Beckham, Fields, Alexei, Konerko to cover the infield and DH positions next year prior to any trades or FA moves, with a hole in RF. It's plausible someone could be re-upped to fill 1 or 2 of those slots, but right now he has to be an option for next year, and hopefully the people in the back rooms feel like he's working better than Anderson did with the team and with the coaching staff. You're writing off Nix?

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 03:13 PM) Are you for real. He was fine. He got hurt only when he dropped down 1 too many times. Outside of that he was fine. He ran out of gas at the end, and should of been out of the game. With Colon pitching tonight, you figure guillen wants to keep the pen use to a minimum. Maybe it would have been more accurate to say "we'll never see the dominant Contreras" or a 17 game winning streak again out of Jose. We can't expect that, simply because that 94-97 MPH fastball is gone and will never be back at this point in his career. Historically, Jose has been better against the Tigers than he pitched today. Some of his most dominant outings have come against them, both at home and on the road. He's a 4th/5th starter now...maybe some of us were hoping he would have a much more extended run, where he put together a 10+ string of quality starts. All things considered, a 4.50-5.00 ERA out of Jose after the way he started is still a minor miracle. Maybe it's a little frustrating to see how well Vazquez and Aardsma are going, when a 4th/5th starter and RH bullpen arm are two huge issues for this team advancing. Remember all those threads about trading him at his peak value? Well, that window has been lost...just like it has to an extent with any deal centered around Poreda/Richard.

Wonder if it wouldn't have been better to have Colon go up against Verlander, and slot Contreras against Bonine instead? That's kind of a loser's mentality, though, where you're hoping for but not expecting the split. Everyone seems to already be jumping off the ledge because we were pretty flat today. That's silly. It's not like we lost in the same fashion the Twins have been losing in. If Contreras had been able to beat their ace, we would have been in a great position to go up 2 games in the standings. This, too, shall pass. By the way, did Harrelson give a "tip your caps" comment to Verlander? Does Dombrowski realize how crazy they are to keep throwing Verlander almost 130 pitches?

So, will we really fall 20% in revenue generation from 2008 to the 2009 season? Will we really spend $80 million or more going into 2010, if we "only" generate $160 million instead of $195-200 million?

1) Leyland is destroying Verlander and Jackson. Porcello is already wearing down. 2) The "bad" Contreras is back again....KW really should add another starter (5th) as insurance. 3) Even Beckham has his off days offensively. We just didn't make him pay early...but the guy was throwing much harder than Jenks does after 120+ pitches, into the 9th inning. 4) The team was due to be a little flat after yesterday...and the nightcap match-up is a better one for us.

The best thing we can say is that we're making Verlander work hard...73 pitches through 4, so he should make it into the 7th, but will more likely be gone in the 6th.

The fact is, even though we're consistently in the teens (right now at 18) in attendance, we're a top 8-10 team in terms of generating revenue. The attendance argument by JR and KW is always a bogus one because of this. But they've done a great job of brainwashing the fanbase into agreeing with them...that they're spending incredibly lavishly. Really, they just are spending what they should have in 2006-2008 based on the lower ($65 million) payroll in 2005 and all the profits generated by the 2005/06 seasons. Many studies have been done showing that the positive effects of winning a World Series on revenue production and ticket sales last for five seasons following the victory.

Two atrocious throws in a row that should have been outs. Ramirez with a very athletic move to snare the throw...have the feeling about this game that we'll regret missing those opportunities in the 1st and 2nd. Thankfully, we're getting Verlander's pitch count way up. Thomas and Raburn are young players who have a lot of talent but have been inconsistent...Thomas is alternating with Ordonez in RF.

Let's say our revenues SOMEHOW fell to the level of the Twins in 2008 ($158 million)...we out-earned them by $40 million even though our attendance numbers have been pretty similar over the last 2-3 seasons. We SHOULD still be spending $80 million, but Kenny is "acting" like we could be in the mid 60's or 70's. The only evidence that argues otherwise for KW is the Peavy acquisition. So we'll see if they take on a significant long-term contract in the next week, before the trading deadline.

FWIW, MLB has only seen a 4% decline in attendance this year. Compared to the 20-30-40-50% losses in housing valuations. If anything, I would think an MLB or NFL franchise at present time would be as close as you could get to putting your eggs in bonds and precious metals. A pretty safe history since the 1980's of a rising tide floating all the boats on the water. Of course, homeowners and speculators believed for 30+ year that housing values would continue to rise and rise, that owning a home was the safest and best investment of all. It's a lot easier to give a valuation (and some approximate guesses on bids) for sports franchise than NASDAQ or dot.com stocks 7-8 years ago or CDO's/credit defaults/derivatives/junk bonds in the last 2-3 years. If you look at the Bottom 10 franchises and compare where they are now with 10 years ago, it's pretty amazing. Maybe the thing that Selig (as a former owner) would be most proud of, from a business/financial soundness of the game perspective. Even all the steroids stories and the fall of numerous stars has not really driven down attendance. If anything, people will continue to seek out alternative forms of entertainment (movies, on-line, sports, etc.) to divert them from their real-life problems. While not invoking James Earl Jones' words in "Field of Dreams" completely, the words of his bleacher speech ring just as true today as they did 20 years ago or in 1919.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/33/baseba...eball_Rank.html The White Sox have climbed from 16th to 14th to 10th in "most valuable" franchises over a 3 year period. We're also tied with the SF Giants in 8th place for revenues produced. (But because we lost Pontiac and Motorola and moved our ST home, we need to pinch pennies???) I looked this up because I came across a Twins' message board today and saw this post: "Countless times,we have been told that the teams business model is to spend fifty percent of total revenue on team payroll. Forbes magazine reported revenue of 158 million generated by the team last year. That figure should equate to a 80 million dollar payroll, but instead we are at 63 million A Hording (sic) of 17 million by (GM) Bill Smith. We still have to hear on a weekly bases (sic) that the Twins do not want to spend money on this player or that player. I wish our beat writers would bring this up." If the White Sox adhered to this same approach, that would put our payroll right around $98 million, which is "spot" on I think or within 3-5 million of the actual number either way (depending on if you believe the Phillies are sending "secret" money for Thome as part of a handshake deal with Gillick). We've been speculating about being in the $70-85 million range for next year, but what's the justification for not building a dominant team and really growing revenues by dominating the division for the next 2-3 seasons...pushing attendance back to 2006 levels. With the Indians at 18th (and declining for sure heading into 2010), the Tigers at 21st, and Twins at 22nd and the Royals at 28th, now is the time to step on the necks of the rest of the division...not to cry poor and insult the fanbase. The fans are now coming out again because they have an exciting/competitive team on the field that's capable of beating any team in baseball right now...a little bit reminiscent of the 2003 season where we were average or below average for 3-4 months and then peaked late, only to be overtaken by the pesky Twins as Loaiza wore down late. I am feeling that the White Sox will definitely be making some moves and not resting on their recent laurels.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090724/COL08/907240321 Author even goes as far as saying Tigers are done if they lose 3 of 4 this weekend to Chicago. I think that's a little bit of an overexaggeration, but his article should give us even more confidence about the "psyche" of the Tiggers as we enter Motown with all the momentum in the world behind us.

It would take Dotel, Poreda and another prospect for Lambo. They would probably ask for Flowers/Viciedo to start with, and MIGHT settle for Hudson as the third player.

Angels score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to tie it against Nathan. Amazingly, that DOUBLES the career runs (1) scored in the history of the Angels against Nathan....a ground ball hit up by the middle by Kendrick bounced off 2nd base when it would have been the end of the game. GMJ ripped a single down in the count on a breaking pitch prior to that...everything coming up roses for the White Sox so far in this amazing day (well, technically Friday morning now).

That catch was like something out of "The Natural," minus Wonderboy. It just seemed like fate, both with the beating that Wise has taken from many and the fact that he was just inserted into the game. And I liked how Ozzie kind of shrugged it off and said "that's my job" about the substitution. Farmer was so non-chalant...it was like you had to watch it 3-5 times in slow motion to really appreciate it, because it happened so fast...and the ball was so close to coming loose. Harrelson was much more excited, as usual. I think Stone must have really enjoyed the game a lot too, unfortunately I can't get anything but gameday radio where I live.

www.chicagotribune.com/sports has two more good stories up by Phil Rogers and Morrissey... haven't looked at the sun-times yet

Don't be player hatin'.

Has to be Torres. Can't imagine someone like Egbert, JVB or Whisler would get another crack at it...way too early for Hudson. Garcia's far from ready? Or has there been more encouraging reports in recent days?