caulfield12

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 06:30 PM) $160 million wasn't cheap for Sabathia in this economy either, but the Yankees still paid him. Jenks won't cost anybody more than $10 million, as the "renewal" for his services is optional. History suggests that they'll get a solid 2010 and 2011 from him, at minimal financial risk. Alexei is off the table. He's proven ML talent, who can play either middle infield position relatively well and has 20-HR power. I wouldn't trade Beckham either. I'd consider dealing Flowers, depending on how long I wanted to keep A.J. around. Perhaps I'm in a minority here, but the vast majority of prospects are just that: prospects. If they haven't done anything impressive at the ML level, they're worth a hell of a lot less than guys like Alexei and Beckham. Do you really think the White Sox would sign someone for more than 3 years and more than $10 million per season as a FA in this offseason? Just curious...I think the financial landscape for Sox future contracts has changed dramatically from 06-08. Comparing Sabathia/Burnett/Tex and Yankees free-spending ways doesn't have very much relevancy to us anymore.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 05:23 PM) For next year we should sign Holliday for RF, stick Dye at DH. Then we have Getz, AJ and Pods still as lefties Would you sign Holliday for the same contract we gave Konerko going into 2006? For Torii Hunter's contract? Fukudome's? You're going to be willing to pay your full-time DH $11-13 million again next year, like we are doing with Thome this season?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) There are 2 rubbers in the bullpen. They could have been up the previous half inning, or right when it started and with stalling had no problem. Why were BA and Beckham out in the bullpen with their "hunnies" during the middle of the game? Erin Andrews sighting? Joking. Actually, in Thai English, the kids use the word "rubber" when they want to say eraser and I laugh every time but thankfully they don't understand.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 04:58 PM) Are you kidding me? When was the last time that Jenks missed a significant amount of time due to an injury? Are you seriously predicting that Jenks is going to hit the DL later this month? Don't you think you're getting a little carried away? Very confident. If I'm a GM whose team is competitive and is in need of an high-tier closer with minimal financial commitment, I do that deal. I'll counteroffer you (and disagree that $7-8.5 million in 2010 and $8.5-10.0 million in 2011 is cheap FOR THE WHITE SOX IN THIS ECONOMY)...I want Alexei Ramirez or Tyler Flowers, John Shelby III and Cleveland Santeliz for Bobby Jenks. No longer interested in Poreda or Hudson. Still make that deal??? Of course Dotel and Linebrink's deals now look a bit worse, but it's a different landscape now than a year ago with our future payrolls and revenue projections.

It seems he was really battling some injuries in July and September of 2006, when we were falling out of that race to the Twins/Tigers. Maybe it didn't officially go on the DL then, but he clearly wasn't himself the second half of that particular season.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 03:17 PM) Yeah, let's compare Jenks to a guy who missed the latter halves of the past two seasons with chronic back problems, and didn't respond to surgery in 2007. That's a brilliant comparison. Is Jenks closer to Papelbon or the "Joe Crede" of closers? Maybe not the best analogy, but you're never going to get a F-Mart type for him, not with the over-stress now on young/affordable talent. Jenks was hurt in 2006, and there's the screw issue...and perhaps the possibility of a DL visit, which would be a disaster with Thornton also out for his wife's delivery. I'll ask this question. If you were another GM and had the White Sox system to trade from, who would you be willing to give up from our top prospects for two uncertain years (or 2.333, technically) of Bobby Jenks at $8-12 million and the possibility he goes down with injury and you get nothing in terms of Type A FA comp? Would you trade Poreda, Hudson and Shelby III straight up for Jenks right now? How confident would you be in making that move?

Jenks won't be at $10 million in his fifth year/2nd arbitration year. He'll be about 5-15% behind Papelbon, who's the cream of that closing crop. $8-8.5 million is a pretty reasonable estimate. Pumpkin Escobar, I read your entire post (longer than most of mine), and your arguments can be used just as well (by other teams) as evidence against giving up much of anything in terms of value. Think of him like we did Joe Crede at that point in his Sox career, year-to-year contracts, uncertainty building up about his health and performance. And Joe never made it to the neighborhood of $10 million per year, I think he maxed out closer to $6.5 or maybe 7 million. Yes, he very well could/should become a Type A FA down the line, but he just AS EASILY could go down for the count with an injury and end up out of baseball like Billy Koch. Then, you'd have very little return on your investment. So any GM is not going to give away a Top 50 MLB minor leaguer...maybe one 50-75, or two 75-125, and a fringe prospect. With how bad he has looked recently, we would be pretty fortunate to get rid of the $8-$8.5 million price tag and get someone back in trade like a Richard/Poreda/Thornton as a possible replacement closer-in-waiting down the line (lefty or righty), as well as a 3B, leadoff hitter candidate (fringe) or fringe candidate for the 5th spot in the rotation, pitchers two steps down from Mulvey and Humber when the Santana trade went down (Hudson territory?). For the White Sox, perhaps THE biggest consideration is the rising salary and possibly declining performance, and the calculation of injury....versus the damage to the team's psyche trying the likes of Thornton, Pena, etc., in that role.

With the early success of Beckham, it's so tempting to think with how atrocious Wise is, that Danks or Mitchell couldn't be any worse...and maybe either one could have a Brian Anderson 2006 offensive output right now, but it would so disastrous for their development to treat Beckham as the new rule and not the exception with moving college players up so quickly through the system and to the bigs. It will be interesting to see if they bring Mitchell to the AFL...I'm assuming the best SOX OF candidates would possibly be an "aging" (25/26) Gartrell (wasn't he hurt last year at that time and Beckham or Danks took his spot?), Shelby III, Danks and Mitchell.

I was thinking he might pull Jenks and bring in Thornton against either Crawford or Pena....to try to reverse the momentum and get a strikeout.

The thing is, Ozzie just never wants a starter who has pitched that well to be in a position to lose it. Maybe he could have started him off with one batter in the 9th to see if he could get him, and pullled him with a walk or single...but Jenks is SUPPOSEDLY/STATISTICALLY one of the Top 5-10 closers in baseball, so that's what his job is, precisely those situations. Every manager would have done the same thing....McDowell is just showing his starting pitcher's bias a bit.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ak5c...o&type=lgns

QUOTE (JoeBatterz @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 02:01 AM) Great question. We could do a top 10 list of prospects that Kenny kept, but should have traded when they had value. On the other hand, also a top 10 list of prospects that he dealt to other teams that never worked out for their new teams. I have to think he would come out ahead over all. Another question, what could we get for Fields now? Held onto too long Jeff Liefer (maybe more Schueler) Fields Matt Ginter Barcelo Malone Rauch Dellaero Brian West Joe Borchard for sure Brian Anderson Lance Broadway Kyle McCulloch Jerry Owens Kris Honel

Tonight's game is a perfect example of why I feel the closer's role is highly overrated in today's game. Clayton Richard, 116 pitches, 6 baserunners over 8 innings. When you are cruising like that, the extra pitches won't take a toll on your body. This 100 pitch thing and 120 maximum idea is ridiculous. There's absolutely NO science behind pitch count limits...ZERO. The pitch count has been passed off as science for a number of years now, but in reality it means nothing. But...because Richard was approaching 120, and it was a "save situation" ('cause remember, it's not about actually winning, it's about padding a closer's stats) we take Richard out of a game he is completely dominating. What a bunch of crap! Every offense in the league would have been begging for the starter to be removed from that game. When an offense is struggling, they search for ANYTHING to mix things up. Bringing in another pitcher is just the ticket for their revival. It happens all the time. Think about this: If Richard had been left in the game for the ninth inning and blew the lead, who would have been under the gun? of course Ozzie would have because he went against the grain of closing! But guess who's locker they are in front of right now? Jenks... asking "why didn't you do your job?" Welcome to pass the buck 101, otherwise known as baseball today. Exhibit 2.... Bobby Howry Keith Foulke Shingo Takatsu Dustin Hermanson Bobby Jenks All of them "low paid" closers until Jenks this season...the only "elite" closer we ponied up money and talent for this decade is Billy "JAILBAIT" Koch. We know how that move turned out for KW (although it did bring us Cotts at least). We have to trade Jenks while we can still get a return in talent and avoid paying him $8 million and up (2nd behind Papelbon in his arbitration class).

7 K's tonight for Clayton...through 6 innings, 11 straight retired. 90 pitches now, will have a short string but will definitely start the 7th.

Score Update: Pods -1 Beckham +2 Rays 0

Ramirez hitting a crisp .400 with 2 outs and RISP. That's a nice. Nasty hard breaking curve wipes out Ramirez.

Thus, I consider thee slayed. Great recovery from an 0-2 count. 820 OPS and climbing, 23 RBI's.

Steal Getz, steal...although Navarro throws pretty well. Watch AJ breaking for home if they throw through to second.

Why would they take the bunt off with a 3-1 fastball count? Got very lucky there not to give up the DP...but Rays still a 2nd DP from getting out of the inning. There's the argument for the bunt, and Beckham would have a chance to give up the lead, although a double with Getz at first will do it, too.

AJ at .301, 782 OPS. This White Sox line-up the most consistent offensively over the last month of any Sox team since he has arrived, according to Greg Walker. Now does Getz bunt here with Beckham coming up next? With BA batting, you wouldn't risk the intentional walk to get to BA/Wise. That's one key difference in our new line-up with CGQ.

Unlike Javy Vazquez, Clayton Richard has really manned up in this game and solidified his spot in the rotation for now after being called out publicly by Ozzie. Thought 2: Tigers score to take a 9-6 lead in the bottom of the 6th.

Richard still throwing at 94-95 MPH in the fifth. Shaping up into a VERY nice, quiet outing for Clayton.

At least Seattle has scored 5 in a row against the Tiggers to make it interesting, now an 8-6 Tigers lead. Could our two ALCD opponents blow 7 and 10 run leads in back-to-back days?

Niemann's recent pitching undoubtedly has something to do with Ozzie or Pods' decision to bunt Beckham over, although it still wasn't completely warranted. You have to think that with CR on the mound, you'll need more than one run. Only 42 pitches through 4, has faced only two more than the minimum.

Beckham at 804 OPS, over the mythical 800 mark, and at .295 now. Thought two: Niemann is coming off a CG shutout against the A's, and has needed only 34 pitches to record 10 outs tonight.