caulfield12

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) C: Kark 1B: Squires 2B: Cora SS: Guillen 3B: Ventura LF: BA CF: 1Dog RF: Baines P: Buehrle I think Squires and Lamar Johnson (etc.) go too far back into the 70's/early 80's for the purposes of this poll....haha! What's next? Worst Sox defensive players of the last 20 years? You know that Wilson Betemit would have to be on that list along with Dan Pasqua and Carlos Lee.

I don't see the Marlins giving up Hermida or Ross for Dotel. We'd either have to subsidize the leftover $2-3 million on Dotel's deal or send another prospect or two along to sweeten the pot, like a John Shelby III and Omogrosso/Santeliz/Ely/Nunez/Harrell caliber of pitcher.

Well, at least Ken Hill used to be a REALLY good pitcher in his prime with the Expos and Cardinals. Heck, I remember Steve Carlton starting games at the end of his career with the White Sox. Dale Sveum. Cory Snyder. That was REALLY desperation time. I forgot Spanky Lavalliere from my earlier list of defensive catchers.

Would much rather take Rios' contract and give up more than an aging Wells, whose contract dwarfs Michael Young and some of the Cubs' long-term deals in stupidity factor. As far as Halladay, look at the discrepancy in attendance for his home starts. It might be the biggest of any single player (certainly pitcher, which is easier to measure and more obvious) in all of baseball. Trading Halladay probably DOESN'T make sense short-term economically, but does long-term if they end up with a much better overall team (think the Herschel Walker trade for the Cowboys) that can legitimately compete with TB/NYY/BOS.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 12:15 PM) C: Charles Johnson 1b: Paul Konerko (although its really only him and Thomas) 2b: Jayson Nix SS: Juan Uribe 3b: Robin Ventura LF: Tim Raines CF: Mike Cameron RF: Brian Anderson Charles Johnson in the prime of his career, but not for that short half-season in 2000. He was actually much better offensively (especially that season) and more so-so defensively than I expected. That reminds me, Miguel Olivo has to be considered a close 2nd to Karkovice/Skinner. Sosa was awesome defensively when he first came up...with the only exception that he had so little control of his arm/throws, but he had an absolute rifle before he started getting bigger (a notch below Guerrero, Larry Walker, Dwight Evans and a bit better than Dye when he came up with ATL...maybe equal to Jose Guillen in the 1995-2000 time frame).

Agreed, although I'll be encouraged when Beckham comes out of his mini-slump offensively and defensively. These Twins' games on the road are definitely going to be a test psychologically for an inexperienced rookie. The week spots will continue to be Beckham (moreso defensively), the health of Pods and CQ and Getz. Still, those are MUCH less challenging problems than Fields/Lillibridge/Owens/Wise/Anderson/Miller/Betemit getting playing time. Another thing to mention is that Nix and Ramon Castro are much more potent threats offensively than what we began the season with...both "under the radar" moves that many in baseball were probably scratching their heads at when they were announced (KW at his best, like the Jenks/Thornton/Marte moves....if JVB ever does anything, then KW has to win Executive of the Year).

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 09:56 AM) Caulfield...you have dropped a couple of notches... Sean Lowe...? No love for my boy Sean Lowe...??? 2001: 11 Starts 9-4 3.61 ERA? I'm very disappointed in you..... I thought Lowe was a prick...for some reason, I never liked that guy. Rick White was another guy who drove me nuts. Actually, though, Lowe was one of those guys who seamlessly drifted back and forth, didn't complain...kept getting bumped because KW thought he had pitchers who would turn out better over the long-term but he was the definition of a "battler" (like Greg Hibbard) out there. Being a Sox fan from 1978 until the Thomas/Sosa/Ventura/McDowell/Bere/Fernandez/Alvarez talent infusion was a very LONELY place. Looking back, Calderon and Melido Perez, along with One-Dog, those were my 3 favorite players from that time span. Although I have to admit I was VERY excited when Sosa first came up about his ability to be the next Roberto Clemente (my all-time favorite). I know I am getting old (39 now) when I start to sound like "colsat46" at the older chisox.com reminiscing about 80's and 90's Sox players!!! Those guys loved to talk about Fox and Aparicio almost on a daily basis, just like my uncle when I was growing up.

And trading Ramirez makes much less sense 1) because of his super-affordable, bargain contract status for the now more budget-conscious Sox AND 2) nobody really knows for sure how well Beckham could handle the position over an entire season, compared to 2B. There's a lot more depth at every position in our organization than SS...although I suppose we could now push things a bit and consider Nix as someone capable of playing it defensively, but hitting everyday against lefties and righties? MAYBE.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 10:35 AM) Good post. I'm sure people can read a few of my posts and think I have blind love for Swisher, while that's not true, I think the Sox would be a better team with him than without him this year. Now, we can argue about his contract, and after what Dunn and Abreu signed for, I lean towards the camp that maybe dumping him wasn't the worst idea, however, to call him a terrible base ball player is wrong IMO. First, he was playing a new regular position of CF, which has some effect on a player. Also, I'm going to give some evil stats here, so please stop reading if you're not a fan, if not I'll save some people the regular responses... baseball is not played on paper I want to see it with my eyes My grand daddy didn't need no OBP or OPS stats aren't everything I'll take the opinion of a one eyed peg legged scout over some fancy numbers derp der derp... (Please, don't label me as a stat head either, i think there's many things, especially fielding, that need to be scouted on film or in person, but stats should be considered important and a great way to get value on some players, and I'm just having some fun with people who hate stats) OK, his career clutch stats aren't horrible and if memory serves me right he his at least one walk off or clutch home run for the Sox last year (it was at home, I can't remember the details). http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...=Career&t=b Also, in his career, and especially in 08, he hit really well at the Cell http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...ar=2008&t=b He also takes a lot of pitches and has a good career OBP, which outside of Thome and when Q isn't playing, the Sox lack. That's crucial to me because generally BPs around the league suck, and the more pitches seen the quicker they're gotten into. BearSox, you do a lot of posting on Future sox board, especially around the draft. Baseball is so much more than a handful of ABs in certain situations. For Mitchell you didn't like the pick initially, then slammed him for one AB (I believe his first televised one against a LHP) then came around after the WS was over. Baseball is a game of failure and to hand pick a few ABs isn't fair to the player, you have to look at the players body of work. I think you're a good poster who contributed a lot of good knowledge to the draft because you took the time to read scouting reports a lot of people didn't and passed that knowledge along, but I think you were unfair to Mitchell during the beginning of the draft and Swisher. Does that make me right? Absolutely not and what makes this board fun! daa84 is right when he says Swisher isn't a star, but he's a solid player (maybe better off in the NL because he can jump from corner OF to 1b and give you decent D at either position) that had a bad year with the Sox and is getting trashed on this board. Not all games have clutch situations, you need a solid roster to help you get you "easy" wins during the season and I think Swisher can help. Swisher hit that bomb off Joel Zumaya and the Tigers, that's the one I remember the most vividly listening on radio

RF Sosa (when he first came up), Calderon, Dave Martinez CF Lance Johson, Mike Cameron or Brian Anderson LF Carlos Martinez (just kidding), ummm...hard to pick one, Raines wasn't that great either C Karkovice or Joel Skinner 1B Greg Walker 2B Durham wasn't a very good defender, except for those balls into OF and down the foul lines like Ramirez...maybe Nix SS Guillen and Uribe (tie) 3B Ventura over Crede P Buehrle or Garland

Just what we need, Josh Barfield or Andy Marte!

Well...anything between 80-85% in save conversion is "pretty good" in my book, irregardless of ERA, and 85% and above is optimal. Below 75% isn't tolerable.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 02:03 AM) You said it. Some of my favorites, off the top of my head: Danny Wright (actually Jason Bere Lite before the injuries, won 14 games with a bloated ERA) Josh Stewart Mike Porzio Felix Diaz Jon Adkins Nick Masset Gary Glover (blast from past) Rocky Biddle (surprised he became closer for the Expos and was sort of decent one year) Sean Tracey Arnie Munoz Matt Ginter Jon Rauch Scott Eyre (not sure if he ever started or not for us...maybe he came out of the pen?)

I would rather have Fathom, KHP or Dick Allen starting than Poreda. Really!!! What was the velocity with Colon's FB this time? Any reports? The last time we saw him, he was really struggling to get it above 90.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 06:39 PM) I like the way Poreda seems to be adjusting to his role in the pen. I see him as a reliever anyway so I'd prefer to keep him there. Poreda = good in the pen right now Richard = bad in the rotation right now If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Poreda is fine where he is, and is doing much better there than Richard was, so fix the area where the hole is without opening up another one somewhere else. With the pretty compelling counter-example of the performance of Clayton last year against the Rays in the playoffs...when he looked almost as nasty as Thornton does sometimes.

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 06:27 PM) Why not give AP a chance? Clayton has been complete trash. There's a chance Poreda gets crushed. So what? Clayton Richard is doing the exact same thing right now. Poreda has a ton more upside so how would it hurt us by reversiving their roles? Poreda can't possibly be worse than Clayton at this point. Why does Poreda have a "ton more upside" than Clayton? Because he's a first round draft pick (late)? Because he hasn't shown a consistent or electric fastball like he was hyped to have...one that has been 1-3 MPH under Clayton's? Because he throws a "decent" slider and "good" change like Clayton? Poreda seems, from watching him a bit, that he changes his motion even more than Richard when throwing offspeed stuff...he will get hit hard, just like Clayton got hit hard throwing just one pitch consistently for strikes and falling behind in counts.

If Poreda's a legit 4/5 starter now, then there must be another conspiracy (like there was against BA) to keep him out of the starting rotation... Right. Seriously, what has anyone seen out of Poreda in the minors or majors this year that gives us much hope he won't do anything but pile up huge numbers of pitches per inning (he won't miss as many bats with his FB at the big league level), that he won't be able to consistently put away hitters with his offspeed stuff (see Richard again), that he won't be consistently pitching much past the fifth inning... Half of the people on this board would rather leave him in the bullpen simply because they think he will be exposed (like Gio Gonzalez was) as a starting pitcher and that his trade value (pretty high right now) will be driven right into the ground? Then again, how can he max out his trade value if he can't prove he has the ability to win a start at the big league level, like Brandon McCarthy did more than once in much more difficult/trying circumstances down the stretch run in 2005 when his every outing with almost life or death and it was Brandon and Jose breathing needed life and oxygen for the rest of the team that was seemingly choking to death.

QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 05:48 PM) Richard's minor league BB/9 is 2.5, which is very good. This year for the Sox, it's up around 3.8, which is not acceptable. Whatever is causing the control problem has to be identified and fixed. As well as a few problems with holding on runners and fielding his position...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) The problem is you never know exactly which one is going to have success. Richard has been bad lately, but he's already shown promise in the big leagues even if he has stuff to learn. Ditto Poreda. Hudson looks solid but he's only at AA even if he's moving fast. So it's entirely plausible that 3 years down the road, those 3 guys you traded could be the Jays 123 starters. Or its entirely plausible that none of them could even be on the Jays or anywhere in the big leagues. That's just how it works But based on our track record developing starters since Mark Buehrle/Garland (he doesn't really count) and what we've seen with our eyeballs over the last couple of seasons with both Poreda (a bit disappointed with his "electric" fastball) and Richard (pleasantly surprised that he seems to have better overall stuff but still not convinced he's even a starter), what would you the say the odds of that happening if KW were to be willing to give up 3 arms like that in a trade? 5%? The only similar trades in his tenure have been trading Gio/DeLos Santos (who was much less advanced, coming off just one dominating A ball season) and of course Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie (which, if nothing else, taught the GM about what would happen the next 3 seasons without a reliable fifth starter or any starting depth when all the prospects and youngsters like Wright, Barcelo, Parque, Stumm, Rauch, Diaz, Adkins, Myette, Dellaero, Ginter, etc., either didn't pan out or got injured.) I can't think of another trade when he gave up (or was willing to give up) multiple pitching prospects that were A or B tier level in our system.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 05:38 PM) There's no way they can trot Clayton back out there after today's start. I am stunned he's been this bad of late, but no way a big league pitcher can get hit like he gets hit. He was on top of the world after those early starts, now he's worse than Jose was early in the season. We can't afford to give games away and we're pretty much giving away the game when Clayton starts. Bring on Poreda. It's his turn. Contreras, Floyd, Danks and now Richard have all had stretches where they looked almost completely lost, clueless and helpless out there. Only Buehrle has truly been consistent for us, in perhaps his best first half ever, overall. Colon gave us about what many expected, maybe he started more games but had lesser stuff than many hoped coming out of ST, where he was touching 91-92-93 with his FB in order to get the starting nod with Jose at the back end of the rotation. Good work by Cooper to help get those first three guys straightened out, not sure it will be possible with Richard or not...same ?'s exist about him as a starter that existed coming into the season when the "CR/AP" moniker with Jeff Marquez and Lance Broadway as well waiting in line came into being.

Well, the AJ deal sucks simply because Nathan ended up being an elite closer...Bonser was a serviceable starter for awhile and Liriano was nicknamed "The Franchise" for awhile before getting hurt (now 4-9 with an ERA of almost 6 and seemingly never to be the same pitcher he once was). But giving up three pitchers with that kind of stuff, that's hard to stomach for any organization. Richard and Poreda don't have nearly the type of electric stuff (and yes, I realize Clayton touches mid 90's and can have a really nice change at times) than Nathan, Liriano and even Bonser (from time to time) possessed coming out of the minors. So let's say it was Richard, Poreda, Hudson and ONE more piece...not named Flower/Ramirez/Beckham/Viciedo/Danks 2. The odds of those 3 pitchers (let alone ONE of them) having the impact of either Nathan or Liriano are pretty darned minimal, and even having Boof Bonser's career would be a pleasant surprise for Clayton the way he has looked recently.

So you'd play Swisher in LF? Swisher would be better than Anderson/Owens/Wise because of the disparity between their offensive games isn't enough to keep Swisher's D in CF out of the line-up...but with Quentin playing and healthy (IF IF IF?), he doesn't seem to have a clearly defined role yet again, with Pods obviously moving to CF and staying in the leadoff position, at least against RHP and some LHP.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 05:27 PM) I say it simply because no one in the Sox organization has ever stated that he has a changeup that is considered to be of usable quality. I'll I've heard about it is that when he was drafted, he had no change and now he's working on it. He was indeed drafted in the first round, but our own internal development scout was bashing the pick because they couldn't ever see him developing the secondary pitches to succeed as anything but a relief pitcher. He may eventually be a good starter, but right now from what I've heard, he doesn't sound ready. When you have a real good fastball in the minors it can take you places even if you're a SP. In the majors if you have a good fastball you can throw BP. But you need at least 2 passable pitches in addition to your fastball to be a successful starter. If you've read that he has a decent change now show me, I may have just missed it. Well, Colon when he was dominant could change speeds and location/movement on his FB so well before all of his injuries and getting out of shape that he could get away with it....and even did with a FB in the 80's at times this year. Contreras, many times, is just a two-pitch pitcher, but he has different arm angles to attack with at least.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) Alexie is a great streaky player and would definitley be missed if gets traded ever. But in order to get something of great value, you have to give something of great value. Kind of like the Freddy Garcia deal. We gave up Olivo, he was a guy we were all in love with ( a young and up and coming star), but we recieved Garcia- he signed an extension and we won a title. If we could get Halladay and sign him to an extension, i'd say we won that deal. Now if you also bring in Rolen (a guy who is currently .330 and is rocking a 25 game hit streak) were set to contend this year and next. You lose Flowers, a guy we got for Vazquez and you also lose Poreda (this guy is the real deal and the Jays will love him). But IMO this would be a great deal for both teams. The Sox still have decent depth in the farm and have a 1.5 year oppurtunity (at least) to win a title with Doc Halladay in thier rotation. But Olivo was obviously pretty one-dimensional offensively (he's become a bit better, but still K's too much and walks too little), but, most importantly, it seems he didn't really have the faith of the coaching staff and pitchers with his game-calling and leadership/attitude, for whatever reason. Of course, he had that gun for an arm, but there were quite a few posters on Sox boards worried about Reed or even Morse having strong careers, with the idea that while Olivo was the most important piece at the time of the trade, Reed was the one who SOME expected to have a bigger impact as an offensive player because of his Player of the Year season and track record in college. Alexei, at his worst, is Soriano Lite with some bone-headed defense and one of the best bargain contracts in the game (isn't that exactly what we need with declining revenues/attendance to maximize return on investment?)

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) Is his supplier? Tough crowd today...the guy's wife just died tragically, didn't she?