caulfield12

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 10:35 AM) Good post. I'm sure people can read a few of my posts and think I have blind love for Swisher, while that's not true, I think the Sox would be a better team with him than without him this year. Now, we can argue about his contract, and after what Dunn and Abreu signed for, I lean towards the camp that maybe dumping him wasn't the worst idea, however, to call him a terrible base ball player is wrong IMO. First, he was playing a new regular position of CF, which has some effect on a player. Also, I'm going to give some evil stats here, so please stop reading if you're not a fan, if not I'll save some people the regular responses... baseball is not played on paper I want to see it with my eyes My grand daddy didn't need no OBP or OPS stats aren't everything I'll take the opinion of a one eyed peg legged scout over some fancy numbers derp der derp... (Please, don't label me as a stat head either, i think there's many things, especially fielding, that need to be scouted on film or in person, but stats should be considered important and a great way to get value on some players, and I'm just having some fun with people who hate stats) OK, his career clutch stats aren't horrible and if memory serves me right he his at least one walk off or clutch home run for the Sox last year (it was at home, I can't remember the details). http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...=Career&t=b Also, in his career, and especially in 08, he hit really well at the Cell http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...ar=2008&t=b He also takes a lot of pitches and has a good career OBP, which outside of Thome and when Q isn't playing, the Sox lack. That's crucial to me because generally BPs around the league suck, and the more pitches seen the quicker they're gotten into. BearSox, you do a lot of posting on Future sox board, especially around the draft. Baseball is so much more than a handful of ABs in certain situations. For Mitchell you didn't like the pick initially, then slammed him for one AB (I believe his first televised one against a LHP) then came around after the WS was over. Baseball is a game of failure and to hand pick a few ABs isn't fair to the player, you have to look at the players body of work. I think you're a good poster who contributed a lot of good knowledge to the draft because you took the time to read scouting reports a lot of people didn't and passed that knowledge along, but I think you were unfair to Mitchell during the beginning of the draft and Swisher. Does that make me right? Absolutely not and what makes this board fun! daa84 is right when he says Swisher isn't a star, but he's a solid player (maybe better off in the NL because he can jump from corner OF to 1b and give you decent D at either position) that had a bad year with the Sox and is getting trashed on this board. Not all games have clutch situations, you need a solid roster to help you get you "easy" wins during the season and I think Swisher can help. Swisher hit that bomb off Joel Zumaya and the Tigers, that's the one I remember the most vividly listening on radio

RF Sosa (when he first came up), Calderon, Dave Martinez CF Lance Johson, Mike Cameron or Brian Anderson LF Carlos Martinez (just kidding), ummm...hard to pick one, Raines wasn't that great either C Karkovice or Joel Skinner 1B Greg Walker 2B Durham wasn't a very good defender, except for those balls into OF and down the foul lines like Ramirez...maybe Nix SS Guillen and Uribe (tie) 3B Ventura over Crede P Buehrle or Garland

Just what we need, Josh Barfield or Andy Marte!

Well...anything between 80-85% in save conversion is "pretty good" in my book, irregardless of ERA, and 85% and above is optimal. Below 75% isn't tolerable.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 02:03 AM) You said it. Some of my favorites, off the top of my head: Danny Wright (actually Jason Bere Lite before the injuries, won 14 games with a bloated ERA) Josh Stewart Mike Porzio Felix Diaz Jon Adkins Nick Masset Gary Glover (blast from past) Rocky Biddle (surprised he became closer for the Expos and was sort of decent one year) Sean Tracey Arnie Munoz Matt Ginter Jon Rauch Scott Eyre (not sure if he ever started or not for us...maybe he came out of the pen?)

I would rather have Fathom, KHP or Dick Allen starting than Poreda. Really!!! What was the velocity with Colon's FB this time? Any reports? The last time we saw him, he was really struggling to get it above 90.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 06:39 PM) I like the way Poreda seems to be adjusting to his role in the pen. I see him as a reliever anyway so I'd prefer to keep him there. Poreda = good in the pen right now Richard = bad in the rotation right now If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Poreda is fine where he is, and is doing much better there than Richard was, so fix the area where the hole is without opening up another one somewhere else. With the pretty compelling counter-example of the performance of Clayton last year against the Rays in the playoffs...when he looked almost as nasty as Thornton does sometimes.

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 06:27 PM) Why not give AP a chance? Clayton has been complete trash. There's a chance Poreda gets crushed. So what? Clayton Richard is doing the exact same thing right now. Poreda has a ton more upside so how would it hurt us by reversiving their roles? Poreda can't possibly be worse than Clayton at this point. Why does Poreda have a "ton more upside" than Clayton? Because he's a first round draft pick (late)? Because he hasn't shown a consistent or electric fastball like he was hyped to have...one that has been 1-3 MPH under Clayton's? Because he throws a "decent" slider and "good" change like Clayton? Poreda seems, from watching him a bit, that he changes his motion even more than Richard when throwing offspeed stuff...he will get hit hard, just like Clayton got hit hard throwing just one pitch consistently for strikes and falling behind in counts.

If Poreda's a legit 4/5 starter now, then there must be another conspiracy (like there was against BA) to keep him out of the starting rotation... Right. Seriously, what has anyone seen out of Poreda in the minors or majors this year that gives us much hope he won't do anything but pile up huge numbers of pitches per inning (he won't miss as many bats with his FB at the big league level), that he won't be able to consistently put away hitters with his offspeed stuff (see Richard again), that he won't be consistently pitching much past the fifth inning... Half of the people on this board would rather leave him in the bullpen simply because they think he will be exposed (like Gio Gonzalez was) as a starting pitcher and that his trade value (pretty high right now) will be driven right into the ground? Then again, how can he max out his trade value if he can't prove he has the ability to win a start at the big league level, like Brandon McCarthy did more than once in much more difficult/trying circumstances down the stretch run in 2005 when his every outing with almost life or death and it was Brandon and Jose breathing needed life and oxygen for the rest of the team that was seemingly choking to death.

QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 05:48 PM) Richard's minor league BB/9 is 2.5, which is very good. This year for the Sox, it's up around 3.8, which is not acceptable. Whatever is causing the control problem has to be identified and fixed. As well as a few problems with holding on runners and fielding his position...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) The problem is you never know exactly which one is going to have success. Richard has been bad lately, but he's already shown promise in the big leagues even if he has stuff to learn. Ditto Poreda. Hudson looks solid but he's only at AA even if he's moving fast. So it's entirely plausible that 3 years down the road, those 3 guys you traded could be the Jays 123 starters. Or its entirely plausible that none of them could even be on the Jays or anywhere in the big leagues. That's just how it works But based on our track record developing starters since Mark Buehrle/Garland (he doesn't really count) and what we've seen with our eyeballs over the last couple of seasons with both Poreda (a bit disappointed with his "electric" fastball) and Richard (pleasantly surprised that he seems to have better overall stuff but still not convinced he's even a starter), what would you the say the odds of that happening if KW were to be willing to give up 3 arms like that in a trade? 5%? The only similar trades in his tenure have been trading Gio/DeLos Santos (who was much less advanced, coming off just one dominating A ball season) and of course Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie (which, if nothing else, taught the GM about what would happen the next 3 seasons without a reliable fifth starter or any starting depth when all the prospects and youngsters like Wright, Barcelo, Parque, Stumm, Rauch, Diaz, Adkins, Myette, Dellaero, Ginter, etc., either didn't pan out or got injured.) I can't think of another trade when he gave up (or was willing to give up) multiple pitching prospects that were A or B tier level in our system.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 05:38 PM) There's no way they can trot Clayton back out there after today's start. I am stunned he's been this bad of late, but no way a big league pitcher can get hit like he gets hit. He was on top of the world after those early starts, now he's worse than Jose was early in the season. We can't afford to give games away and we're pretty much giving away the game when Clayton starts. Bring on Poreda. It's his turn. Contreras, Floyd, Danks and now Richard have all had stretches where they looked almost completely lost, clueless and helpless out there. Only Buehrle has truly been consistent for us, in perhaps his best first half ever, overall. Colon gave us about what many expected, maybe he started more games but had lesser stuff than many hoped coming out of ST, where he was touching 91-92-93 with his FB in order to get the starting nod with Jose at the back end of the rotation. Good work by Cooper to help get those first three guys straightened out, not sure it will be possible with Richard or not...same ?'s exist about him as a starter that existed coming into the season when the "CR/AP" moniker with Jeff Marquez and Lance Broadway as well waiting in line came into being.

Well, the AJ deal sucks simply because Nathan ended up being an elite closer...Bonser was a serviceable starter for awhile and Liriano was nicknamed "The Franchise" for awhile before getting hurt (now 4-9 with an ERA of almost 6 and seemingly never to be the same pitcher he once was). But giving up three pitchers with that kind of stuff, that's hard to stomach for any organization. Richard and Poreda don't have nearly the type of electric stuff (and yes, I realize Clayton touches mid 90's and can have a really nice change at times) than Nathan, Liriano and even Bonser (from time to time) possessed coming out of the minors. So let's say it was Richard, Poreda, Hudson and ONE more piece...not named Flower/Ramirez/Beckham/Viciedo/Danks 2. The odds of those 3 pitchers (let alone ONE of them) having the impact of either Nathan or Liriano are pretty darned minimal, and even having Boof Bonser's career would be a pleasant surprise for Clayton the way he has looked recently.

So you'd play Swisher in LF? Swisher would be better than Anderson/Owens/Wise because of the disparity between their offensive games isn't enough to keep Swisher's D in CF out of the line-up...but with Quentin playing and healthy (IF IF IF?), he doesn't seem to have a clearly defined role yet again, with Pods obviously moving to CF and staying in the leadoff position, at least against RHP and some LHP.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 05:27 PM) I say it simply because no one in the Sox organization has ever stated that he has a changeup that is considered to be of usable quality. I'll I've heard about it is that when he was drafted, he had no change and now he's working on it. He was indeed drafted in the first round, but our own internal development scout was bashing the pick because they couldn't ever see him developing the secondary pitches to succeed as anything but a relief pitcher. He may eventually be a good starter, but right now from what I've heard, he doesn't sound ready. When you have a real good fastball in the minors it can take you places even if you're a SP. In the majors if you have a good fastball you can throw BP. But you need at least 2 passable pitches in addition to your fastball to be a successful starter. If you've read that he has a decent change now show me, I may have just missed it. Well, Colon when he was dominant could change speeds and location/movement on his FB so well before all of his injuries and getting out of shape that he could get away with it....and even did with a FB in the 80's at times this year. Contreras, many times, is just a two-pitch pitcher, but he has different arm angles to attack with at least.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) Alexie is a great streaky player and would definitley be missed if gets traded ever. But in order to get something of great value, you have to give something of great value. Kind of like the Freddy Garcia deal. We gave up Olivo, he was a guy we were all in love with ( a young and up and coming star), but we recieved Garcia- he signed an extension and we won a title. If we could get Halladay and sign him to an extension, i'd say we won that deal. Now if you also bring in Rolen (a guy who is currently .330 and is rocking a 25 game hit streak) were set to contend this year and next. You lose Flowers, a guy we got for Vazquez and you also lose Poreda (this guy is the real deal and the Jays will love him). But IMO this would be a great deal for both teams. The Sox still have decent depth in the farm and have a 1.5 year oppurtunity (at least) to win a title with Doc Halladay in thier rotation. But Olivo was obviously pretty one-dimensional offensively (he's become a bit better, but still K's too much and walks too little), but, most importantly, it seems he didn't really have the faith of the coaching staff and pitchers with his game-calling and leadership/attitude, for whatever reason. Of course, he had that gun for an arm, but there were quite a few posters on Sox boards worried about Reed or even Morse having strong careers, with the idea that while Olivo was the most important piece at the time of the trade, Reed was the one who SOME expected to have a bigger impact as an offensive player because of his Player of the Year season and track record in college. Alexei, at his worst, is Soriano Lite with some bone-headed defense and one of the best bargain contracts in the game (isn't that exactly what we need with declining revenues/attendance to maximize return on investment?)

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) Is his supplier? Tough crowd today...the guy's wife just died tragically, didn't she?

What the hell is GETZ doing....??? If he would have slid, he would have been safe. Took a base hit away from Beckham and killed that rally anticipating getting to 3rd on the single. We are just not into this game...maybe we're already thinking about Minnesota and the House of Horrors. For a "grindery" player, inexcusable.

Let's just be thankful we don't have to anticipate Wasserman, Russell, Sierra, Augustin Montero, Sean Tracey or Jeff Nelson coming into the wretched game. The Twins are starting four hitters with under a .655 OPS, shades of the White Sox offense a month ago. Of course, Span/Mauer/Morneau/Cuddyer/Kubel aren't a bad "quintet."

Arnie Munoz. That's the game Uribe almost single handedly kept us in it with almost 10 RBI's when he was hitting around .400. Munoz reportedly had a great curveball...lol. That darned Willie Harris screwed up a bunt late in the game or we could have won, but it was entertaining at least, enough that I remember it vividly.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 12:44 PM) OK...so who was that home run on? He throws all FB to Francisco...walks him. Then Shoppach, who sees this, sits on a FB...and gets? A fastball. And hammers it? Is that on Clayton or AJ? Carrasco not fully warmed up and shows it with a walk. Richard had no slider...he either left it out over the plate or missed with it completely, so there was little choice with Ozzie or AJ to go with any other pitch there. Looking like the Thursday day game in May where we got absolutely clocked by the Twins after winning the first two. Jesus...I guess we really don't want to sweep the Indians. Not so good in the end to be 7-5 against a team in our division that's almost 20 games under .500 and 6-6 against the Royals.

Game really far from over, of course, but that might be the opening in the door for Poreda or Carrasco to get a start after the break. Poreda with the same problems with his breaking stuff and high pitch counts. Almost better to just get the GS out of the way and start over from scratch instead of having a really, really HUGE inning with 5-7 runs put on the board.

QUOTE (BFirebird @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 12:32 PM) 2-2. Indians poor defense helps us out. Thanks Peralta! DeRosa probably would have made that play, Peralta sucks wherever you put him, but especially at SS where he has no range. Beckham misses an easy snag he makes 998 times out 100, so I guess it's appropriate the game is back to even after all the poor defense from both teams. 56 pitches in that inning...I guess that's good for the concessions/vendors...maybe KW is ordering Clayton to throw 25-30 pitches per inning in order to maximize revenue possibilities. Garko, once again...rolling breaking ball up, pitches away from defense with Beckham way off the line and the ball pulled by the RH hitter.

You absolutely don't want Huff to get settled in... Nice job Konerko...way to pick up Beckham and Richard and knot things up. Paulie on an absolute tear.

Beckham whiffed on the throw, or the Indians might have been completely out of that inning or only scored one run. Clayton, OTOH, has no early feel for his breaking stuff. The ball to Peralta was a hanging slider. Richard simply has to get his breaking ball before the 3rd/4th inning or it will be too late against the Indians' offense, or his pitch count will be around 100. You can't put away hitters with only one pitch at this level...nobody can, not even Zumaya or Jenks with his best FB. Cabrera was out by a mile and had a bad jump. Ramirez and Thome with very loud and long foul balls that were pretty close to tying or giving us the lead.