caulfield12

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) The Royals and Sox have actually traded sort of frequently in the last couple years. Off the top of my head, MacDougal, Ramirez and Sisco. I wouldnt completely discount trading for Teahen at this point Scott Sullivan also comes to mind. DJ Carrasco didn't come directly from the Royals, but he spent most of his career there. Same with Gobble. Dotel, etc. Teahen? He's not much more than a career 700-725 OPS type of player, and his defense is very shaky at 3B...but he doesn't hit for enough power to hold down 3B or RF. Trading him to the White Sox, they would ask for a "premium" return. Perhaps if it was a one or two year "band aid" and we'd given up on Josh Fields entirely, in which case you'd be putting Getz on the bench, moving Beckham to 2B, or moving Ramirez into CF with Getz at 2B and Gordon at SS. If KW had done something logical in the offseason, it would have been to go out there and get Casey Blake. As far as the OP goes, trading your best offensive player for what? Someone that can actually play CF on an everyday basis? Beckham and Ramirez have to be considered average to below average at their positions now, Getz average or a bit above, Konerko average (range made up for by scooping so many balls out of the dirt, but he can make some bad defensive plays, too)...the only one in the outfield better than average is Anderson, although lots of metrics had/have Quentin as average/above average for LF, especially this season, where he looked like he had adjusted a bit. The only player on the roster that can really play D is Nix, along with Brian. Unfortunately, the jury is still out on both of them being capable of producing enough offense to be starters on a consistent basis.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 10:35 AM) I agree. That comment was more of a criticism of Ozzie's ability to judge his players sometimes, or his inability to know who should play where, or when they hit in a lineup. I think Ozzie is very mediocre when it cmoes to doing those things. There is a laundry list of examples like MacDougal, Lillibridge playing over Nix, Fields hitting in the 2 hole, Wise leading-off, Richard not starting, etc. I mean, even Lexi batting in the 2 hole was a product of Joey cora in Guillen's absence. I know there are times when he makes the right move as well. I was just saying that I question his judgment sometimes. 1) MacDougal had pitched pretty well in ST, nobody ELSE was stepping up (like Link/Russell/Wasserman) and KW had the hope that perhaps they could get another team to take this contract off our hands if he could show something again in the big leagues...did it work? No. Was it a horrible move? Nope, not when you have a pitcher with that talent and arm, there was a 5-15% chance he could click again. 2) Nix had a strained quadriceps muscle and was hurt coming out of ST or he very well might have taken the slot that Lillibridge won. Hard to blame that one on Guillen. And Lillibridge was our only option sometimes for CF...unless you want to argue that Nix could also play that position, too. 3) We don't have any ideal 2 hitters except for Getz, and Ozzie wanted to take the pressure off Chris and move him down. We also needed him even more at the top spot in the order. AJ, Fields and Ramirez all have their flaws at this spot, but at least Alexei is becoming more patient. 4) Do you really think that Cora made a line-up change without first seeking approval from Ozzie (Ramirez)? 5) Is it still so clear after this much of the season that Brian Anderson is the everyday, starting CF for the White Sox in the future??? I don't think so, sure, he had a good game yesterday, but he's been his typical inconsistent self, when playing everyday or when platooning. We had LONG/PROTRACTED/CONTENTIOUS discussions on this topic, and to accept a 650 OPS out of a starting CFer just isn't good enough. Beckham is already well over that mark, the one BA has for his entire career. 6) If not playing Wise, you would have kept Josh Kroeger? KW was the one who let Uribe go and swapped him out for the anti-Uribe in Betemit, a player with zero defensive ability at all four infield positions. 7) See comments on Josh Fields above. After his 2007 season, with Crede gone, with health (vision/knee injuries supposedly cleared up and him our best hitter in ST along with Betemit), how could you NOT start the season with Fields as your everyday 3B? 8) Wouldn't you agree that about 75% of the people who post on Sox message boards thought Richard would be a failure as a starter coming into 2009???

http://www.weather.com/maps/maptype/dopple...mile_large.html Don't know how small that delay will be...we shall see.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) I prefer to be optimistc about our chances. But, every other game or so we still have the naysayers calling for wholesale trades involving Sox veterans and asking for second tier prospects in return just to dump salary. I think they forget all we have to do is finish 1st in OUR division to get into the playoffs. In 2003, 2005, 2006 and 2008, I would agree that we really went for it (as much as possible) to win those seasons, although if you'll recall, the big moves those seasons were adding Blum and Griffey, Jr. Injuries killed us in 2001, 2004 and 2007, and chemistry/clubhouse issues were the biggest issue in 2002 with Lofton/Jimenez/Lee/Ordonez/Thomas. This might turn out to be another 2004, when injuries/youth/inexperience derail our chances, but we add a few pieces to the puzzle (like Garcia and Contreras back then) and position ourselves for this year and beyond, like the Peavy trade theoretically would have done. We do have the pitching to compete (2nd in the AL), which is a lot easier as a starting point than adding higher OPS hitters. The problem is that 1B/DH/LF types are pretty easy to find or acquire, it's finding someone for CF and 2B/3B that has proven to be a huge challenge for KW, particularly CF. It seems for the moment we're set with Beckham at either 3B or 2B...the only question is do we replace a rookie (Getz) who seems to be playing better recently or a CF platoon that will be forever limited (but perhaps the harder of the two positions to find someone)? Hopefully Konerko/Thome/AJ/Dye will remember 2006 when KW asked them if the team needed additional reinforcements and they said no...this year, it's quite obvious where the needs are.

Who will have the better/longer career in the future (after they leave the White Sox), Fields or Brian Anderson? It's a good argument simply because of the 81 games played per season at USCF, and the fact that our offense is what's been holding us back....largely. Of course, the main question can Fields put up an 800+ OPS or could Getz put up a 725-750-775? It seemeed a lot of posters felt Getz was just going to go out there and be this 350-375 OBP type of player with little power and the ability to steal you 15-25 bags per season. Maybe he is...maybe he isn't. It probably would be easier to find a veteran 3B (thinking along the lines of players such as Joe Randa/Herbert Perry in the past or Tyler Wigginton today) that will give you 20-25 HR power, a 250-275 average and decent RBI numbers. It helps a lot that Getz is LH...and he's perhaps the fastest player on our team down the line, along with Pods. And he hustles a lot (yes, grinderish...lol) but there's always a role for a player like Getz or Nick Punto, the question is whether it's with the White Sox and whether it's as a starter of bench player. Another question is who would you rather have to play out the remainder of the season? Uribe/Ramirez/Beckham as your infield or Beckham/Ramirez/Getz-Nix?? Of course, Uribe wouldn't be a long-term solution, but he's proven time and time again to be a winning player, clutch with RISP, great defender, etc. We all know his offensive inadequacies.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 09:51 AM) There were at least four pitches he threw last night where I exclaimed "holy s***, where did that come from", sweeping curves for third strikes, dotting corners. I honestly never knew this guy had this in him based on April and May and his career numbers, despite the relatively less amount of success he was able to have. I don't think at any point during last season he was close to this dominant for this many starts in a row. This is the strangest turnaround I've ever seen in one season from one player. Can anyone else think of a player who put such bad numbers up for six weeks, and then incredible numbers? I guess Paul Konerko 2003 comes to mind. I remember JD started out really slowly in 2005. Tim Raines had one season where he was under .200 into mid-May when he was expected to be one of our best players, then turned it around. Juan Uribe the first two months of 2004 was incredible, hitting around 400+ most of that time. Of course, Contreras (05-06) and Loaiza (2003) also come to mind from a pitching standpoint, in terms of their dominance seemingly coming out of nowhere. Felix Diaz beating the Cubs once at Wrigley, lol.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 08:57 AM) Sox already beat Greinke this season. His first loss on the year. But he also dominated us at least once and I think it was twice...

Ironically, the entry for non-sequitor is spelled wrong!!!! Should be a -UR ending. I just added that comment because it reminded me of the poster who always had David Cook's picture on every message...that there would many comparing Haeger to Wakefield and Hough and the Niekro's and thinking that he could be a mainstay of our rotation. And I wanted to see what "scenario" had to say about Shelby...even though it's a Gavin Floyd thread. By the way, does anyone think Jon Danks would take Gavin's contract if offered again today? PS: Can I file a formal complaint my "Piniella comments" thread was highjacked by a minor league attendance discussion tangent, lol???

QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 08:39 AM) Was just looking at some old posts (circa 2007... thank you for pointing them out Tony) that are priceless... Including some that were absolutely brutal slams of Gavin and suggested dumping him in favor of Charlie Haeger, etc. LOL. That's gotta make some sort of top 10 list. What next, Gartrell or Cook will be starting at a corner OF spot in 2010? So what do you think of Shelby's season so far? Sort of a disappointment, I would imagine...although not an unmitigated disaster, and his OPS is still quite a bit higher than Viciedo's, mostly because of the higher walk totals. Seems that Getz/Fields/Shelby are really the ones who might be on the outside looking in. Having a Danks/Mitchell/Quentin outfield is pretty exciting with it's possibilities, and maybe Shelby could be a 4th/5th OF, back-up infielder (like Ozuna in a way) and PRer.

The difference is.... 1) Garland was almost never consistently "dominant" where he would shut down opposing teams or throw more than an occasional shutout 2) Garland never was a strikeout pitcher...he was always more of a finesse guy, even though his FB was sometimes 92-93 3) Garland never really showed that he was anything but a 3-4 guy with us, Floyd continues to have more "upside" by far over the entire length of that contract...like Jose, he can be simply dominant when he has complete confidence in his stuff 4) Garland has/had better control, but Floyd can be a "quality" starts machine, whereas Garland was usually giving up 3-4 runs per game (it seemed, just my perception...don't hate Garland, but nor was he close to my favorite player either)

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 09:13 AM) Dye staying on this team this year and next year is probably worth more than you would get in a trade for a half season of him to be honest. He is also our best player, and doesnt look to be slowing down. He might be our best, but I would argue Buehrle over him, because of his influence on the rest of the pitching staff. Now usually you would never pick a starter over a position player, but I think we could survive more easily without JD than we could without Mark Buerhle, who won't be 100% appreciated until he retires or is pitching with another organization (let's hope not!)

KC has had our number this year, especially Greinke. Time for some payback...although they can be a tough team for us to beat since 2006, especially playing in KC.

It might turn out blowing that 5-1 lead against the Cubs was the reverse spark this team needed to come back to life...to realize how close they were to being 5-0 against a team that was supposed to be one of the best in the NL and outplaying them completely. 6-2 or 5-3 in this stretch of games coming up against the Indians and Royals and we're close to back in business. Doesn't seem like the Twins are any better off than we are (except for having two MVP's in Mauer/Morneau, and Cuddyer/Kubel are VERY solid as well in the middle) with holes like 3B, Gomez, Delmon Young, Nick Punto (I knew they'd regret that signing, would have been better off with Juan Uribe or Adam Everett), the RH set-up pitchers, etc.

With Mitchell/Danks in 2011...Beckham, Viciedo, Flowers, Allen (at least two of those guys working out)...we should have the best team in the division if we can find just one more solid/reliable starting pitcher. Of course, it seemed we had 10 starters coming up through the pipeline around 2000/01 and the only ones who turned out were Buehrle and Garland in the long-term. Heck, I even think The Little Engine That Could (CJ Retherford) might make a nice story of an UFA making it to the big leagues...a good example for all our minor leaguers that success and persistence pay off, they even those players who aren't highly touted can force their way onto the radar screen (Boone Logan also comes to mind in the recent past) and KW/Ozzie will give them a shot (D.Wise is another maybe bad example to some). And I'm not 100% ready to cut the cord on Dye/Konerko/AJ/Thome if it makes sense...and it does...to keep at least one or two of those guys around in 2010/11 under the right conditions monetarily. I'll just put it this way....the other night when Valverde blew the save, I was thinking "hey, we're really close to being back in this thing after struggling for so long to find an identity"....now it's the pitching and Gordon Beckham that are sparking this team to life.

Brandon Backe (32) Miguel Batista (39) Josh Beckett (30) - $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout Erik Bedard (31) Kris Benson (34) Daniel Cabrera (29) Chris Capuano (31) Bartolo Colon (37) Jose Contreras (38) Doug Davis (34) Justin Duchscherer (32) (would have to undergo extensive physical eval though) Adam Eaton (32) Shawn Estes (37) Josh Fogg (33) Freddy Garcia (34) Jon Garland (30) - $10MM mutual option with $2.5MM or $1MM buyout insurance, no way you give him much money, more like bringing back Pods Tom Glavine (44) Mike Hampton (37) Rich Harden (28) Mark Hendrickson (36) Livan Hernandez (35) Tim Hudson (34) - $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout see Justin D. Jason Jennings (31) Jason Johnson (36) Randy Johnson (46) John Lackey (31) Cliff Lee (31) - $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout of course, Shapiro would be burned in effigy if he traded Lee to us Braden Looper (35) - option Rodrigo Lopez (34) Jason Marquis (31) Kevin Millwood (35) - Rangers can decline $12MM salary for '10 unless he reaches 180 innings in '09 Brian Moehler (38) - mutual option Brett Myers (29) Vicente Padilla (32) - $12MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout Chan Ho Park (37) John Parrish (32) Carl Pavano (34) Brad Penny (32) Odalis Perez (33) Andy Pettitte (38) Joel Pineiro (31) always the type of pitcher who looked a lot better than his actual results on paper, like Gil Meche Sidney Ponson (33) Mark Prior (28) revenge on Cubs factor, why not give it a shot, nothing to lose... Horacio Ramirez (30) Jason Schmidt (37) see pitchers with injury concerns above...could he have one Cal Eldred 2000 season left? John Smoltz (43) Tim Wakefield (43) - perpetual $4MM club option Jarrod Washburn (35) Brandon Webb (31) - $8.5MM club option with a $500K+ buyout Todd Wellemeyer (31) Kip Wells (33) Randy Wolf (33) but how well could/would he do in the AL? One name that hasn't come up at all in this thread is Brian Omogrosso...any thoughts on his future in the organization (probably as a RH set-up guy to replace Dotel I would guess)??

Glass is half empty or half full, depending on your optimistic or pessimistic viewpoints...mixed in with realistic/pragmatic ones. 1) Beckham is playing out of position, and he probably profiles the best offensively at 2B 2) We pretty much have to play Anderson/Wise and Fields/Getz/Nix in every line-up 3) Quentin might never be healthy again this season... 4) How long can we expect Contreras and Richard to keep pitching as well as they have? 5) Poreda has shown some flashes, but the bullpen has looked more and more vulnerable recently, especially Liney/Dotel/Thornton 6) Pods looked like he was done three years ago, pretty much. How long can his rebirth possibly last, or for him to be injury-free? 7) Ramirez seems a lot like Soriano Lite...he can play you out of and back into games quite easily, but very inconsistent...still, a 700-750 OPS at SS is nothing to be laughed at (see O Cabrera's 2009 stats at what could easily have been a $10 million additional contract and a blocking of either Getz/Beckham from playing time, yes Dick Allen, I remember your ubiquitous comments about them offering him ARB)

Getz and Beckham turned out to have the key insurance RBI's of the game, as it turned out. Don't think they would have scored 3 against BBBJ though. That Indians' line-up has so much talent, they outscore us by 1 RPG, it's a shame for their fans they don't have a better manager. By the way, how in God's name does Delmon Young have a 595 OPS??? Just wow. We can partially thank Bill Smith for our 2008 ALCD championship...that and holding onto Livan Hernandez too long over Liriano and getting NOTHING in return for the best pitcher in baseball, Johan Santana.

Yeah, with LEE pitching, Ozzie will overload with righties and also use Castro and Anderson. Only one thing is for certain, your guy Betemit won't be in the line-up against Clifford. He could go really crazy and stick Nix or Fields in LF if Alexei is ready to play. Well...was worried if we were leading by 4 or more that the bullpen would struggle....lo and behold. Jenks is MUCH more valuable to this franchise than I give him credit for sometimes...because Thornton/Linebrink closing has disaster written all over it. Would almost rather see Omogrosso in that role, but not QUITE.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jun 29, 2009 -> 07:43 PM) Nothing yet, but it didn't look bad after he got up. He'll be fine, maybe sit out a game, but that is as much as I'd expect he would be out. It will be interesting to see if he uses Beckham or Nix at SS tomorrow. Playing Beckham with Fields at 3B would work, but I think they will go with Jayson, for fear of upsetting the confidence Beckham has growing more comfortable by the day at third.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 29, 2009 -> 07:39 PM) I think we have to live with the fact it's never going to happen. Ozzie reitereated that the other day. Nix at 3B isn't going to work as a long-term solution. He has the arm and fielding ability, but he just hasn't proven he can hit well enough to play anywhere but up the middle. It would be better to trade someone like Shelby III for a Tyler Wigginton/Herbert Perry type and move Beckham over to 2B.

QUOTE (Baines3 @ Jun 29, 2009 -> 07:34 PM) Beckman 3 for 3, he sure is coming on late as far as hitting goes. 6-0 Sox. 17 for his last 58=.293 That said, I don't expect Gordon to hit more than 18-24 homers on a consistent basis. But those numbers, solid defense, gap hitting, maybe 30-40 doubles....Chase Utley Lite will work. If Juan Uribe could have ever figured out how to consistently manage a 750-850 OPS (raising his walks), he would have been SO much more valuable...but he still led us to the playoffs twice. But Beckham can obviously take his share of walks. Hopefully Getz will pick it up in that category as well as he matures and starts to feel he belongs.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 29, 2009 -> 07:32 PM) You mean Wise is the CF of our future? If anyone would have said we'd be competitive still with Anderson/Wise in CF, Gordon Beckham being forced to come up from the minors and Carlos Quentin on the shelf for much of the first half, I would have probably said they were insane/crazy/pathological. That and some clutch performances recently from our entire staff, and better than expected results from Richard and Contreras, this season is starting to get a little interesting.

I was tempted to say bring back Juan Uribe to play 3B with Beckham moving over to SS...then Getz comes through with another huge clutch hit. He plays above average defense and has very good speed, better to have this problem I suppose than having to play Owens/Russell/Wasserman/Fields/Andy Gonzalez, that's for sure.

At least it was a slider. Nice to see the Sox running all over Martinez like other teams do against AJ.

QUOTE (kev211 @ Jun 29, 2009 -> 08:05 PM) haha Did they just start that? What do they shoot off to clear out the Lake Erie mosquitoes? Old Municipal Stadium, right on the lake, used to be horrible for bugs/insects.