caulfield12

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 08:22 PM) Considering I think Tillman will have a better career than Kazmir or Liriano, and Adam Jones is likely to be more valuable over his career than Nathan, I give the big edge to Baltimore (not to mention they got Sherrill) The O's announcers were talking about Tillman replacing Berken in the rotation. That's 8 or 9 starts for him without a win, and a mid 6 ERA. On the hook again right now for the loss, barely.

Can we just trade Linebrink and Fields for Baez? Liney in 2010 and 2011 doesn't seem too promising.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 08:16 PM) That could go down as one of the 5 worst trades in the last 100 years of baseball. Brock/Broglio AJ SF trade Zambrano/Kazmir Colon for Phillips/Sizemore/Lee Borchard for Matt Thornton (just kidding) Smoltz for Doyle Alexander

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 08:16 PM) wonder if seattle regrets trading Jones Surely they never expected to be almost to the point of waiving Bedard coming into this season. Being as offensively-challenged as the M's are, that kind of plus hitter and defender is much harder to replace in CF than finding pitchers who can use Safeco to their advantage to hold down the opposition. BOO! BOO!! Wise, you are a one-year wonder and completely worthless.

QUOTE (OilCan @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 08:12 PM) Yep, really bad one. Despite his "decent" ERA, appearances can be deceiving with Linebrink. Obviously he's going through a dead-arm period again or is just sore-armed. Does anyone have confidence in him holding a one run lead or tie game in the 8th inning anymore?

Yet another reason we went out and got Pena. Hopefully Linebrink doesn't become as unbearable to watch as MacDougal the next 2 seasons. Double plays not turned....ground rule doubles, feels like the lead should be a bit more comfortable. Luke Scott is very dangerous...hopefully he doesn't give them the lead here.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 07:59 PM) As much as we love Dye, his option of 11.5 million I believe is just too much in this market. It's very strange from two months ago thinking we SHOULD be thinking of ways to jettison Dye/Konerko/Thome to now wondering if it wouldn't be a better to keep 2/3 of maybe all three of them around for 2010. Hopefully, the attendance will pick up and we'll stay in the race for the entire season so KW won't have any excuses about going after players like Hunter/Fukudome/Rowand and coming up short time after time. It's interesting to think how good we would have been the last two years with Hunter, but that contract as he ages the next three seasons scares me a little bit. Then again, I never thought he would even put together an MVP half offensively, let alone season, in his 30's.

Thome "quietly" has a .902 OPS, higher than Konerko. Really interesting decisions coming up with Dye and Thome in the off-season. If Dye keeps hitting the way he has, you almost HAVE to exercise his option for 2010...and if Quentin is going to be uncertain going into next year, even more of a priority for KW. You can't see us going after someone like Vladimir Guerrero, even coming off 2-3 "down" seasons and at the back end of his career.

Supposedly, there are velocity and stamina concerns, based on his AAA performance at OKC to date...to the point where they didn't feel they could take the risk of letting him get his velocity and control back by experimenting in the heat of a pennant race. Kind of the same issue we already have on our hands with Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 07:21 PM) It's very possible Webb is a FA this offseason. There's also reports his injury is much more serious than the organization is stating it is. So the question is will KW be willing to go into one of those incentives-based contracts like the Red Sox put together for Penny or Smoltz? David Wells is the last pitcher who had a somewhat similar contract in 2001. Mark Mulder is another guy in this category, although it looks like he might be done. Ironic, but far and away the best move the Indians made in the offseason was Carl Pavano, a move that almost everyone in baseball discounted. But 85% of SoxTalk would take Pavano as the fifth starter right now I bet.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 07:14 PM) Absolutely, if we can get average production out of third base with a steady glove and move Bacon to 2B, along with a healthy Quentin we've got a very potent line up, esp if Jermaine can continue to keep it up. The idea of Teahen and Hermida in our line up excites me. We would have a balanced attack from both the left and right sides of the plate and the potential for breakouts(backs?) from them, neither one of them would be expected to carry the line up; simply produce for the rest of the season and going into 2010 while AJ, Paulie and Dye ride off into the sunset. With all the money we would have coming off the books after this year i would look to lock up core; much like the rays and tribe. The sox are going to have a very solid foundation to build off in nearly every aspect across the board and depth in the minors to supplement the major league roster in one fashion or another. My mouth salivates at the thought of this around the Diamond. DH L/R Thome/Dye C R Flowers 1B R Konerko 2B R Beckham SS R Ramirez 3B L Teahen LF L Hermida CF L Danks RF R Quentin Then you add in the potential "hitability" of Viciedo at 3B and you really have something...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ng3&three=1 Haren has a 3.73 ERA away from home (around 3.30 in the desert) and has given up more hits than IP on the road over the 2006-2008 seasons. That's a little worrisome, just like we talked about with Peavy. That would translate to a 4.00-4.25 ERA in the American League. So I don't think Haren or Halladay are worth that kind of package...Halladay because we wouldn't be able to keep him for more than 1.25 years and his age, Haren because he's not really a proven ace in the AL. A Brandon Webb or going after Peavy coming off an injury are more KW's style, with the exception of the Freddy Garcia trade, when he was still pretty close to his prime but still declining a bit because of the abuse to his arm/shoulder.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 05:20 PM) Average is a lot better than what we've gotten out of CF and perhaps 3b so far this season. Another problem with Teahen is that he's pretty much abysmal in RF/LF and at 2B. He's so-so at 3B, which MIGHT be better than Beckham, but not by much. So the question is whether the offensive upgrade of Teahen over the Getz/Nix platoon is worth it, and the cost of acquisition. And a lot depends on CQ. If we know he's not coming back, getting Teahen's LH bat in the line-up does make a lot more sense, because we're definitely at least one bat short still with Pods' injury history, Anderson/Wise and Getz/Nix (maybe still a tick below MLB average if you combine them, but they're not killing us, either).

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009906200344 Older article, but interesting take defending Ordonez's benching. Is Ordonez done? PEDS? At 35, I would like to see him try to make a comeback with the White Sox as a DH against lefties (I think we have to get a LH DH to replace Thome) and 4th outfielder, but that will never happen with KW and Ozzie running the team. But it's more Boras hate than anything personally I ever had against Magglio. He wasn't really a leader, but he certainly wasn't the WORST guy on the team or in the clubhouse, either. Not Herbert Perry or Jose Valentin, though.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 04:51 PM) I bet they don't trade Freddy Sanchez. They've already got enough bad press. And they are supposedly talking about extensions for he and Jack Wilson. I do like your idea to trade for Snell though. Another consideration with Snell is the fact that he's in the Top 20 in the most "pitcher abuse" points...so a pretty good candidate to break down and have an injury, on top of all the other issues (confidence/mechanical) Cooper would have to deal with.

Which has higher odds, Alex Rios putting up another 800+ OPS season at USCF in our new "reinvigorated" line-up in 2010/2011 or Jordan Danks? Obviously, Rios has more of a track record and he's still a young player, one of those "change of scenery" moves that have worked so often with pitchers, and SOMETIMES hitters in KW's tenure. Although we don't see nearly as many "Walk will fix him" (teal/green or not) comments, so that's a bit of a concern if you do swallow that. Getting the Jays and JP to give up a Thome like subsidy will cost the White Sox Danks/Poreda OR Richard OR Hudson and probably one more piece. It kind of goes against everything that's been said recently about attendance/economy/sponsorships going forward, but it's really depressing to think with all that money coming off the books that we couldn't even afford ONE contract like Alex Rios, then we're in for an interesting ride. Of course, the Rios trade idea has one flaw...it still doesn't address the leadoff hitter issue. Getz is more valuable to us (or Nix, for that matter) than he is in trade to another team. But I don't see Chone Figgins getting anything approaching $10 million per season over more than 3 years because of his age and injury history. Speed players always decline as they reach their early to mid 30's, especially in the post PED's era.

Flowers, Poreda, Viciedo, Danks and one of the young arms get it done That's suicide, Kevorkian style for KW. Phegley is far from a sure thing at this point, and Flowers is probably the most likely of all of our minor league hitters to be an impact bat SOMEWHERE in the line-up in 2010/2011. A Jordan Danks trade is questionable because of the presence of his brother, although KW would trade his own mom and son if it got him a Reyes/H. Ramirez type. In a heartbeat. Viciedo's value is down a little bit (or maybe a lot, depending on perspective...although scouts still seem to be happy to project his future positively rather than being discouraged by the results of just 3 1/2 months in America). Poreda or Richard, fine, but ALSO including Hudson and/or Carter??? No way. Seems like a recipe for disaster, like Phillips, Sizemore and Lee for Bartolo Colon. Of course, during KW's tenure, he has never traded away ONE player who had the individual impact later on of those three players (Brandon with the Reds after the Indians grew too impatient)...so it's not likely to be quite the disaster, and our farm system recently has been nothing like Montreal's, but you never do that trade in a million years. (Morse/Reed/Olivo and Wells/Fogg/Lowe were the closest but not nearly reaching the Nathan/Bonser/Liriano debacle). Dombrowski would be pretty crazy to trade 5.25 years of Porcello for 1.25 years of Halladay, as well. In this economy, a cheap 2 starter (they've already paid most of his money due, right?) is gold, just like Alexei Ramirez with his contract.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 01:33 PM) Good thread. To be perfectly honest, I think the Tigers may eventually take a significant tumble and finish in 3rd place, and the main reason I believe this is they have abused their starting pitching. To be fair, they kind of have to do that in order to keep winning ballgames so I can't blame them, but it's going to catch up with them eventually, and in a big way. I actually think the Twins are going to end up winning the division due to them probably being the most predictable, consistent squad at the end of the day (consistently mediocre, but that might be enough in the AL Central), but obviously I hope I'm wrong. With Seay, Zumaya, Dolsi, Lyon, Rodney and Perry, they have perhaps a better or at least comparable bullpen with the White Sox in terms of ability/potential. Maybe our lefties (Richard/Poreda/Thornton) give us the advantage overall, but those five righties all have pretty nasty stuff, or had in in the not so distant past. You throw in Zach Miner as the long man, they're not bad. At any rate, I can understand with how well Jackson (all year) and Verlander (since the middle of May) have been going and with their middle relief struggles last year, but it's going to come back to bite them, surely.

http://www.rotoauthority.com/2009/07/pitch...use-points.html Not surprising to see Verlander and Edwin Jackson so high on the list, is it? You never see any Twins' pitchers either, which is why they tend to play better in the 2nd half of the season (and this year, the schedule for the Twinkies is more favorable). Another issue for the Tigers is trying to delicately avoid Magglio Ordonez's $18 million vesting option for 2010 based on plate appearances...and Carlos Guillen's balky shoulder. All things considered, unless Quentin comes back and is anywhere near a shadow of his former self or the White Sox acquire another starting pitcher without giving up Beckham/Ramirez/Floyd, then the Twins would look to have a 75% chance to win the division, especially if either Verlander or Jackson are injured...not to mention they really need to be careful with PORCELLO as well, so those are 3 pitchers to watch closely/carefully. The Tigers, reportedly, have nixed trading Porcello/Perry for Halladay.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jul 15, 2009 -> 01:11 PM) im doing this from a phone and didnt really wanna quote that so disregard that. anyway im not sure if this point has been brought up but if it takes a ram and prospects to get halladay i do that trade in a second for a multitude of reasons. one your.e getting one of the best pitchers in baseball to go on top of one of the best rotations in baseball and it would, in my opinion make our rotation the best hands down. 2. when you trade a ram i think that makes the defense a lot better because you can slide becks to his natural position where he should be a lot better than he is at third and should be an upgrade over lexi. 3. yes lexi has the ability to carry this team offensively but i believe and im sure many of you agree that becks can be just as good as if not better than lexi offensively so your.e not losing much there. 4. the moving of becks to short makes d there better as it does with 3rd base because you get becks out of there and you can plug nix in over there who is a wizard on d. 5. nix has the ability to put up the kind of power numbers lexi did last year and that would be coming out of the bottom of the order, if getz starts hitting like pods him and nix would be a nice lil 8 9 in this lineup. so in conclusion to wrap this all up this trade gives us the best rotation to go along with the bullpen that very well could be the best and this trade also puts a better d out there behind that staff. if it can be done you do it in a second. lexi, dotel, richard, maybe a prospect for roy make it happen 1) How do you know that Beckham will actually be better than Alexei at SS? Based on the theory he can't be any worse than at 3B? Yes, it's his natural position, but almost every scouting report had him moving to 2B when he was drafted for a reason. What if he's worse, much worse than Alexei? Then you have to play Nix there everyday. 2) Nix isn't a very good hitter at all against RHP...and he's only a plus offensively at 2B/SS, not a corner infielder by any stretch of the imagination. Let's not forget Colorado gave up on him after 8 years because he couldn't hit well enough at 2B in the NL, yet we expect he could somehow be a starting corner infielder in the AL the following season?

I know when my wife came from Russia and was being processed for a K-3 visa, the biggest hold-up was at the Department of State, with the database checking of names against the "terrorism watchlist" and then cross-checking. Her app was stuck there 2-3 months at least.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jul 15, 2009 -> 07:49 AM) Welcome to Soxtalk! I curious about Freddie as well. Alexei's contract is reasonable, but I do think it is Kenny's MO to go after the big fish, especially a cy young quality starting pitcher. Alisay Ramirez >>>>> Miguel Olivo/Jeremy Reed Second, Halladay and his agent would NEVER agree to an extension with the White Sox, so it's pretty much a moot point.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 14, 2009 -> 05:22 PM) Teahen's body just looks weird. It doesn't look proportional. Like his legs are skinny and his upper body is huge. He almost looks like Clayton Richard. Coming out of Oakland and all, I don't think PEDs would be out of the question for him. To me, Teahen is just a better hitting version of Ryan Sweeney without quite as much speed (basically a doubles/gap hitter with occasional power) who had a couple of half-seasons that made you think he might be a consistent 800-850 type OPS guy. But not enough pop for the outfield or 3B and lacking the defensive prowess for 2B or the footwork...not quite the same type of athlete as Shoemaker with the Cards.

Well, according to Cooper, Aardsma and Sisco refused to work with him and the organization on their offspeed stuff...so they basically cut them loose. We tried MANY times with MacDougal, maybe he just needed a change of scenery and to pitch in a low-stress environment like Kip Wells did, or similar to KC, without any scrutiny by the media.

Teahen's one of the nicest players on the Royals...not sure why anyone would want to heckle him or someone like Mike Sweeney.