caulfield12

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) I agree it's time for Ozzie to move on. He shoulda been fired when we were sucking eggs at 10 under .500 or wherever the Sox were in late May. I just think he's a good manager. Just too bad the team is so dysfunctional. If we can him, I prefer Sandberg. I think he'll be tough, yet quiet. Let's say Sandberg is a total flop, won't that alienate the fan base even more? Will any Cubs' fans or neutral observers be turned on to the White Sox because of this move? Will it have one iota of effect on public perception? Because it seems a bit desperate to take the Cubs' #1 icon from the 80's and early 90's and make him the poster shot for your organization. Sandberg is a pretty quiet guy...not like Baines, but they either need someone who's going to immediately get and receive respect by his mere presence (don't think Ryno quite meets that standard) or a dynamic younger presence who can inspire and lead in the Dave Martinez mold. The feeling I have about Sandberg is similar to the reason why I'm 98% sure Robin Ventura would never want to be a full-time manager.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 04:47 PM) Sox just what the doctor ordered for Garza. Cubs 6-1. Memo to Adam Dunn. You could be THE difference in this game as you could have been yesterday. You may want to earn some of that money at some point. Greg, since you are constantly predicting we'll lose games, why do you think Ozzie should keep his job? Do you really blame everything on KW and the players and not on the manager at all....after watching this same show for 2 1/2 years now? Not, Ozzie will be great in the NL, Ozzie will lead the NL is sacrifice bunts to move the tying or winning runs into scoring position in the first six innings, Ozzie will be missed and the White Sox will become irrelevant without his crazy antics, Ozzie loves the White Sox and is loyal to a fault to JR (ooops, not so much, going by his recent comments). What makes you believe he can turn around this mess?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 04:29 PM) fathom will hate me for this. But the summer of '09 set this franchise back at least 5 years. I think signing Dunn AND losing the first round pick was just as significant...and the loss of Hudson dating back to last summer. Simply because Dunn is impossible to unload unless he's hitting. If Rios could throw together two months of 800 OPS baseball and pick it up a bit defensively (and stop loafing), then there's a better chance someone would bite. The Dunn market is limited to about 5 teams in baseball. But the combination of Rios, Peavy, bringing in Teahen and Pierre and dumping Swisher was almost as bad....the diametrically-opposed opposite of Danks/Floyd/Ramirez/Quentin in 2007-2008. One thing that DJ and Farmer mentioned constantly in the DBack series was how much they hustled....came after you on the basepaths, running down the baselines, everything done with a sense of urgency, intensity and purpose. He attributed this to the respect that Gibson, Trammell, Baylor, Matt Williams, etc., have from those young players. Juan Pierre always hustles, but we have a number of players dogging it down the 1B line, notably Rios. Some will excuse AJ because he's so slow, but he has a propensity for doing that, too. McKeon benched Hanley right away to send a message. Remember Maddon and Upton? It's back the zero accountability thing. Bradley was lifted in the middle of a game this year for his attitude and lack of hustle. The Twins struggle with Delmon Young in this regard, as well....which is why they've tried to trade him numerous time since they acquired him. Has Ozzie ever done anything similar with Rios for his apparent lack of hustle. Not slumping offensively, but just the cavalier attitude he sometimes shows towards the game of baseball? It's a crime with how hard Lillibridge tries because he would be playing everyday for Maddon or Gibson (at least while he was hot) and Rios would have had an extensive period of riding the pine, not just 2 games.

Or "These Kids Can Play" Can you imagine another rebuilding era built around that notion?

QUOTE (chiguy79 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 09:39 AM) Dunn will cost KW his job... White Sox 2011- "The Lost Season" I thought that was 2001 or 2007 or 2009.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 09:07 AM) Kenny Williams math lesson: Adam Dunn = 24 man roster for next 3.5 years - ($56,000,000 + 1 first round pick). Hey, then it should be a little less than $50,000,000!!! $49+ milllion somehow sounds better, less cataclysmic. http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/tonypau....php?blogid=635 "I've just been trying to almost get out of this stupid funk that I'm in by one swing, swinging as hard as I can," Dunn, who has 65 strikeouts in 156 at-bats in his first tour of the AL (no legit excuse to stink, I say, in this era of constant player movement and interleague play), told MLB.com. "And that's really not me, I don't swing as hard as I can, I never have. I needed to just relax and get back to the basics of seeing it and hitting it."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 08:26 AM) I will give you credit. You managed to find by far the worst draft statement about Keenyn Walker. I don't hate Walker. Like many, I've never even seen the dude play. What I do despite is their "spinning" the draft of someone at #45 like "wow, we drafted a baseball player" and almost delegitimizing their pick of Mitchell in the prior year. In my mind, you always take the high upside guys like Mitchell, Danks and Thompson and populate your farm system with them. It's a numbers game. Some of them will blossom, most will fail or fall to the wayside, stalled in their development. Of course, none of us liked Ring/McCulloch/Broadway...but the idea of Walker or Beckham as "pure baseball players" and not just athletes playing baseball (Borchard, Fields, Anderson) is amusing. It's not like we have never developed an athletic outfielder, a lot of organizations would like to have Chris Young. He was very raw and nothing close to a finished product when we drafted him. So I'll take 10-15 Mitchells or Youngs over 50 Kennyn Walkers and play those odds in Vegas that I end up with a couple of All-Stars and one once-in-a-generation superstar.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 08:08 AM) KW controls the roster but he can't force a guy into the lineup. If his manager is insisting that the player in AAA will not play everyday, and the GM doesn't have the authority to fire the manager, then the GM has little recourse. Unless KW actually had the cojones to walk in to JR's office and say "unless we bring up Viciedo and play him everyday, this team probably won't be able to compete in the second half, barring miracle recoveries from Beckham, Rios and Dunn. I don't want to trash the entire future of this organization by trading away Dayan for Jeff Conine or Craig Counsell, so it seems you have to pick one of us or the other to lead this team. I made a mistake with Juan Pierre. It worked out last season but obviously he's just not going to be able to turn it around and we need Dayan's bat to spark the offense. I already mortgaged the future by giving up Hudson and Holmberg for Jackson...you have to understand that nothing can get Ozzie and I to work together. Our egos are too big to fit in the same room. Choose wisely."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 08:13 AM) An interesting thought is looking at who we have drafted the last couple of years in Mitchell and now Walker. It finally looks like we are trying to bring Ozzie style players into the system. Mitchell is definitely a KW pick. Same with Thompson and Jordan Danks, to a lesser extent. Walker has more of the Guillen/Pierre/Pods/Owens tendencies. His ceiling is pretty limited. Of course, they compared Alexei to the likes of Ramon Santiago, Pablo Ozuna and Omar Infante, so who knows.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 08:02 AM) There was a time when the fact that they clashed was a benefit because it wound up producing a more balanced, capable lineup, rather than the type of 2003-2004 lineup we saw where there were 4 monsters in the center surrounded by 5 weak parts with a depleted pitching staff. For the last few years though, the small quick guy that Ozzie has wanted has not been MLB-worthy. That's the biggest problem...etiher KW isn't getting him guys who deserve to be on a baseball team or Ozzie is asking for guys who don't deserve to be. And those "weak" players weren't so bad...Rowand, Valentin, Uribe, Crede. Nothing like Clayton/Johnson or AJ (although he's looking better now, but for most of the year?)/Rios/Beckham/Morel/Pierre. Any of those four guys I named would be arguably the fourth best (certainly most dangerous in the eyes of opposing pitchers) hitter on this White Sox team. If I recall, that was Juan's best offensive year where he was hitting around .400 near the end of May still.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 06:22 AM) Sooo, uhhhhhh.....where is Jerry Owens? Atleast he brings...athleticism? The fact that Viciedo is not on the major league team shows a direct correspondence to the incompetency of the manager in managing a team, which shows a direct correspondence to the incompetency of the GM in not either firing the manager or having his orders be followed, and/or a correspondence to the managing partner having a total incompetency as to what the f*** is going on with his GM and manager. I think there's a bit of all 3 going on. I think "bit" is the wrong term. I think there's A LOT of all 3 going on here. You can add, at this point, probably 2 wins by DFAing Juan Pierre and adding Viciedo. If he's Carlos Lee in left field, then that's an improvement. Something needs to be done, and until it is, this team is going to continue to mire in mediocrity. Having the worst hitter in the entire major leagues continue to get the most plate appearances of anybody on your roster is like trying to build a car out of banana peels and plastic, Don't forget the duct tape, MacGuyver. In all seriousness, you could make a serious case that we'd be better off with either Brian Anderson (defensively) or DeWayne Wise (for some pop and the same amount of speed on the basepaths, maybe 5-7 fewer steals but less caught stealings and a better arm) in LF, three years after their White Sox shelf lives expired. It's almost maddening. One year it's the Thome/Kotsay thing. This year, there's another insane personnel decision that's clouding the entire season. Actually, two. Because the combination of Thornton (when he wasn't suited or prepared to be closer) and Pierre defensively led directly to that 4-18 streak and season-long purgatory, seemingly. I suppose someone will argue that the only reason we're still in this thing is Santos and Humber, and give credit to KW. Which will then lead back to the retort, what about Peavy/Beckham/Dunn/Rios/Pierre/Teahen/Linebrink/AJ?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 07:31 AM) I'm honestly convinced that if we called up Viciedo today, he would have an +.900 OPS the rest of the way and would not be prone to massively-long slumps like half of these cowards. He's just a pure hitter and our team desperately needs one of those right now. It's just so frustrating and inexcusable that he's not up right now. KW's job could come down to our finish this season, yet he and Ozzie are trying to get every single extra mileage out of a over-the-hill Juan Pierre. 99.9% of people agree that this simple change could have a huge impact on our offense. How can KW not see this? He can't honestly believe that Pierre has something left in the tank right? You can tell from watching him that Pierre has lost a step. I've supported KW for years, but I'm feeling like it's time for a change. We need a new front office and a new coaching staff. The only guy I would try to keep is Cooper. Go after Dave Martinez and let him pick the rest of his coaching staff. As for GM, Rick Hahn is not an option IMO. I'd like to see Reinsdorf offer Andrew Friedman a boat-load of money to take over our organization. While I will not advocate rebuilding unless all hell breaks loose, I want a GM who's got some actual experience building a quality organization from the ground up. We need to start making changes to our philosophy towards player development. I'm not giving up on this year or next year anytime soon, but need to commit more resources to this area. In particular, something needs to be done about Latin America soon, because we are playing short-handed right now and it's killing us. The only way we get Friedman is if we offer him and his father (Kenny) an ownership stake or the rights to buy shares.... Otherwise, you're going to have to use money to attract a candidate, because of the dim prospects in front of this organization minus an incredible run of trades and bad contracts turning around. And even with Ramirez and Viciedo, you can't go 5-7 years without ANY top prospects from the Dominican, Mexico, Central America or Venezuela. We had our moments with Takatsu and Iguchi...but that didn't lead to any more Korean or Japanese imports following in their footsteps.

13 Assassins puts everything but "Seven Samurai" to shame....excellent movie, one of the best action/fight scenes I've ever witnessed. It goes on for nearly 40 minutes at the end, and perhaps the best villain ever. Morning Glory was pretty good, too. Big Rachel McAdams fan. Harrison Ford always plays to his stereotypical, gruff type...but he was excellent in the role as the movie went on and developed substance and a bit of depth. Still trying to decide if Cowboys vs. Aliens looks like an epic flop. Whenever I see the preview, it hearkens back to Wild Wild West. Watched The Adjustment Bureau a second time...another favorite movie from this past year.

Who gets blamed if a single school is failing, the principal or superintendent? Well....in this case, the entire organization is more or less in shambles, so you'd have to argue that Ozzie is the principal of the failing school but KW is CEO of the entire thing, and no less than equally responsible, if not moreso. It's easier to fire the principal of course, but JR might consider the only "fair" thing to do would be to let both go (so as to be perceived as not taking sides) and start over with a fresh approach/perspective.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 06:58 AM) I'm confused. Are the Sox paying JP $3 or $5 million? $5 million this year (Dodgers are responsible for $3.5), $3 million in 2010 (Dodgers paid $7.5 million). This gets back to the "investment of resources" argument. We're already paying $3.5 million of Linebrink's $5.5 million contract....plus Teahen, plus Viciedo. Being stubborn over $2.75 million when we spent a lot more than that on a washed-up Manny Ramirez....not sure what to say anymore about the "spin" coming out of White Sox Land. In reality, this has nothing to do with money anymore. It's about Ozzie's will versus Kenny's, and who will blink first. Will KW give in and trade Viciedo or hold him back to build around with Ozzie out the door? While they're at it, they might as well just send Beckham down to the minors to play everyday and let Lillibridge, Vizquel, Teahen and Morel share at-bats. Not that they'll ever get anything back for Teahen now, but hey, might as well use him if they're stuck paying him millions.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 10:47 PM) This story isn't going to play well on soxtalk. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/cowley/6074...-just-bolt.html Save your time. Comments coming: -- Fire him now. -- Let the big mouth go. -- How much more can Jerry take from this guy? -- I'm sick of Ozzie and his kids. Florida just take him now!! You can have him!! Key the reaction in three, two, one ... Boom sox fans go get Ozzie. This is a little bit like Jeff Skilling going to Kenneth Lay weeks before Enron collapsed and asking for a pay raise, more stock options and a better golden parachute. Just tired of Ozzie thinking he's more important than the team. Seriously, they already gave him an extension through 2012...what are they supposed to do to make him happy, an Ozzie Theme Park filled with statues of him bunting, Venezuelan Night and a tribute song by Dennis DeYoung? Seriously, Greg, aren't you the one always saying "just win, baby" and quoting Al Davis? Maybe if we actually got to .500 for once since the 2nd week of the season, someone besides Cowley would actually listen to him.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 09:24 PM) He will trade Viciedo, because its our biggest splash of talent and gets the most bang for our buck. He will go for a name, a name that will draw fans. A vet. Not young players. He will trade Jackson, and get a small pidence. He will look to move Danks in the offseason. He is not a FA yet. Pittance? Joking. If he trades Viciedo...I'm seriously going to boycott White Sox games until Hahn or a new G.M. is named.

Belle's offensive prowess was at least respected by the fans. While never loved or even liked, I don't ever remember a cascade of boos raining down on his head. DJ: "Whatever Dunn's doing is just not working, period."

Hey, don't put Ozuna on that list. I loved that guy...one of my all-time favorite Sox players.

I think this is one of those seasons we'll just go back and forth between .500 and ten games under...can just never over the hump. Not as bad as 2007, but more frustrating...because we're in it "just enough" to keep from doing anything to change our roster or TRY any younger players on an extended basis.

Well, we better never acquire a "big-name" left-handed hitter again. First, Swisher...now Dunn. How is it even possible both guys could veer so far off their career norms when they came to such a hitter's park? It's the curse of Joe Borchard. (Yeah, yeah....Thome was good).

Plenty of time left this season....basically 90 games to go. The Indians are losing, so this game doesn't really matter. They'll get it together sooner or later.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 08:00 PM) Dunn juist amazes me. 3 at bats and 3 k's and Zambrano is a righty pitcxher with nothing on the ball according to you guys And he's crushed him throughout his career too, 7 or 8 homers alone in the match-up. Babe Ruth was fat. John Kruk was fat. Tony Gwynn was fat. Why didn't it affect their hitting?

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 07:55 PM) Our team whole heartedly believes that there is no reason to worry. That they can sail along cashing checks and the rest of the division will just wait around. Its a long season, no reason to worry until September 15th. Look at our lineup. The manager can't control himself and puts a stacked lefty lineup of old and the crappy. He must live in some area where time is frozen. That players dont age, and slappy is better than power. I for one would of liked to see what Viciedo does tonight against Zambrano. But we get the slap and tickle show. Farmer laying into Sox fans for their reactions to Dunn's ineptitude. Yay, he's trying! "I was already booing myself." Some consolation for $14 million. Wow....some action. Ozzie kicked Soto's mask 30 feet. At least there's some excitement finally. For some reason, when one of the teams are REALLY down in this series, they have a way of really making life miserable for the better team. It's like the playoffs for the Cubs. For the White Sox, like another game against the Twins or Tigers. Wonder how many games this season we'll get 36,000+ after this series?

The scariest thing of all is the 50/50 possibility that we just watched our Opening Day starter in 2012 get violated. Other than one inning last night, the White Sox and "crooked numbers" don't go together. We bench Beckham (fine) but we weaken our defense with Teahen and don't think about trying someone over Pierre or Dunn.