caulfield12

Well, I would have to say there was even MORE hype about Ventura because of the DiMaggio like hitting streak he had at OSU, even if he was drafted in a fairly similar position. And I think Ozzie's point was that scouts were already starting to see glimpses of all the hard work that Ventura was putting into the defensive side of things...work that would blossom into the best defensive 3B of his generation with the White Sox, even though a few believe Crede in his prime was better. Perhaps part of it is also to shield Beckham from scrutiny for his defense, as we've moved him around already from his natural SS to 2B and now to 3B in the span of less than one year...and he was already well into double figures in errors at Birmingham 1/3rd of the way through the season. Ventura and Thomas were coming up at a time when the only pressure on them was to succeed individually, but not on a competitive team where there was any pressure on the manager (I guess it was either Fregosi or Torborg that season) to compete for the division title. That wouldn't come until the surprise team of 1990 that seemingly came out of nowhere to compete all season long with the hated A's. So key differences: 1) Ventura's hitting streak made him perhaps the most famous player in the country 2) Ventura was allowed to stay at his natural position 3) His 0/41 streak was not juxtaposed against a team fighting for the division crown in a heightened media market 4) There wasn't a 20 year history of failed White Sox position prospects (outside of Durham, Cameron, Lee, Ordonez, Rowand and Crede) 5) Usually Ozzie is "crazy like a fox" trying to defer attention from players and put it back on himself so they perform in and out of the bubble

You might as well put this game under protest right now, not that it would matter. Great job again Wise, it's always good when batters who can't hit can't do any of the little things like bunting and moving hitters along. How did a player who spent a bit of time in the NL without being a power hitter ever make it to the majors without being able to bunt at all?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 02:33 AM) We should get Trade Winds back up. It's time to start suggesting what kind of returns we can get from the people we sell. I think AJ is the only real lock to stay on the team veteran-wise with Thome (contract) running a close second. I hope that doesn't mean you're suggesting we would/should/could be trading Mark Buehrle?

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) Fantastic post. I think your last sentence is really very true. I've always been a huge fan of Ozzie and have defended him over the last few years for the dumb things he has said (even with his Mariotti is a "f**" thing - i always thought that was blown out of proportion). And after the World Series year, I especially felt like I'd never want another manager on this team except for Ozzie (as long as Ozzie still wanted to do the job). Unfortunately, in the last few weeks or so, I've begun to feel that if Ozzie doesn't make a few personal changes to the way he handles young players (particularly highly touted ones), Kenny may need to consider finding a new manager. We're about to start a youth movement, whether he likes it or not, and if he can't change, then we don't need his negative bulls*** around or else nobody is going to play well. Unfortunately, I don't think Ozzie can change. I think he'd rather get fired than change how he does things, which makes me feel it could be a realistic possibility of seeing him go in the next year or two. Also, some might say that "so and so" is a mental midget if he can't handle what Ozzie is saying, but I say that's bull. Even the cockiest/most confident of players won't play well if their manager is constantly saying things to downplay/criticize them. That's a bad way of managing, but even worse that he does this stuff in public so that millions of people can read about it. Keep it in the clubhouse, Ozzie - especially with the new guys. It would be one thing if Konerko was batting .200 going into mid-June, then I'd be okay if he called him out publicly. But saying things about new guys needing to produce immediately or their ass will be on a plane back to Charlotte is ridiculous. Most rookies aren't going to come in and light the world on fire. I don't know why he doesn't seem to understand that. Who is this manager that you speak of? Jerry Manuel? Well, he was supposedly GREAT with the young players in 1998-2000, but then he wasn't respected enough in the clubhouse to motivate or push them over the top, right? What manager wouldn't look at the White Sox job as a stepping stone to another bigger, better organization? The type of manager who bleeds White Sox black and takes the losses just as hard as the fans do? Undoubtedly, something will happen between KW/Ozzie and Reinsdorf this season...and, most realistically, Ozzie would go before Kenny. I'm not sure if it's that Ozzie thinks he's more important or integral to the organization than Williams, or he brings more fans to the park, or what's going on...but there's obviously a massive battle of egos at play. Or go back to Joe Girardi a few years ago when he was fired. Everyone said he was great with that young Marlins team, but then he's done so-so in New York, has been accused to being a hard-ass and too controlling and also ruining a number of pitchers. I think Kenny also realizes bringing in another manager puts the focus squarely on him...if those players fail, it will be much harder to blame a new manager than it is to blame Guillen now. After all, Ozzie has NEVER had the type of team he wanted, and maybe he never will, since we play half of our games at USCF. I think perhaps he does favor players like Lillibridge, Nix and Getz (or even Owens) over players like Anderson and Fields who have such horrible strikeout ratios. Perhaps that's a bias more in favor of players who can execute the fundamentals...another that Ozzie repeatedly singled out for praise when he was here was Tadahito Iguchi. It's not like any of our former minor leaguers have gone on to great success elsewhere. Chris Young? Sweeney? Jeremy Reed? It has been an almost 100% fail rate for those younger players outside of Chicago, Joe Borchard is yet another example that comes to mind. I guess we can look back at Aardsma now, but he pitched his way out of numerous organizations with his stubborness. Everyone in Chicago was ready to get MacDougal, no surprise that he is doing better in a non-pressure situation like Washington (see Wells, Kip). Maybe we just have to realize that Fields and Anderson just aren't that good and move on instead of holding on to Ozzie mistreatment as a defense for their struggles.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 12:05 PM) To me the most interesting part was when he talked about how guys, no matter how cocky they are, have doubts as to whether they belong when they are called up. That alone tells me that you as the manager need to make them feel as welcomed as possible. And I have on good record that Ozzie didn't always do a good job of that (*cough*Brandon McCarthy*cough*). However, I had hoped he had improved and I'm going to have to hope he has and if he hasn't I'm confident that Kenny would than make the right decision and find a manager that works better with young players. I can also point to pitchers that Ozzie has done a great job handling (Richard, Danks, Floyd, Garland) I think Ozzie, like any manager, prefers to have young players that are really ready for the big leagues and can justify their place in the line-up. Let's go back to last season, he benched Uribe in the early part of the season (the same guy who had been a starter for 4 seasons and was a major part of a championship in 05) for a rookie in Alexei Ramirez...we can't just say he's biased towards Latin players, because of the four examples above. Sure, there's Sean Tracey as well, but Ozzie has had problems/issues with veterans like Ordonez, Lee, O-Cabrera, Marte, Swisher, etc. Seemingly he has had a sterling record with Griffey, Thome, AJ, Crede, Dye, Konerko, Buehrle, Jenks, etc. It's always going to be a "chemistry" issue when the team isn't talented and is losing. How can anyone say that Ozzie has done anything but an excellent job with Clayton Richard, for example? Thornton, although he wasn't young, was "young" in terms of experience and success at the MLB level. They seemingly made the right decision with Contreras, for example...maybe they trusted him too much in allowing him to start the season when he wasn't ready, but nobody was clamoring here for Marquez or Poreda at the beginning of the season, either. He played Wasserman, Owens, Fields and Andy Gonzalez in 2007 when there was no other choice...what has our team really produced since Ventura/Thomas in terms of position players? Durham/Ordonez/Lee and then Crede/Rowand over a span of about 20 years. Ozzie has good reason to be skeptical about any rookie coming up and contributing, especially one rushed more than Thomas and Ventura. Can any manager realistically expect to get more out of the likes of the Sean Tracey's and Lance Broadway's of the world?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 08:04 PM) It was to premature to take him out. Let him try and finish the inning at the very least. Ozzie likes to take his pitchers out before they have an opportunity to lose, and I freaking hate that idea. You should let the pitchers have the opportunity to win. And that, in combo with our god awful defensive positioning with the pitcher at bat, is gonna cost us the game, most likely. Well, what does it tell you that we're advocating leaving Clayton Richard, basically a rookie paid minimum wage, over using Octavio Dotel, a veteran pitcher who is paid $6.5 million a season to get those types of outs??? Clayton is pitching on 3 days' rest and if the bullpen can't hold a two run lead, we don't deserve to win anyway. Not to mention the fact that our offense mustering an amazing output of 2 runs against Jeff Suppan isn't going to win more than 10-20% of the games with an offense (albeit sleeping/dormant) like the Brewers have.

Clutch two-out hitting. Wow, that's what it looks like?? Gordon's not striking out very much, but his contact just hasn't been very solid in terms of producing line drives like in ST or in the minors. Wow, a Fields pop-up? There's a surprise.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 07:56 PM) My question is why was Pods playing so deep with Suppan at bat? 1) Because Pods is afraid to go back on balls 2) Because Alexei has the most range into the outfield and down the foul line of any SS in the American League Still very stupid....how many times will Suppan drive a ball to LF over Pods' head? 1% of the time? You have to play the percentages and "dare" him to beat you. And the ghosts of 2007 are approaching even closer...the only question is what players will remain on the team at the end of the season and how will Ozzie's and KW's sanity hold up with another season like they promised they would NEVER go through again?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 07:50 PM) 102 for Richard. Still would have let him finish the inning. Did not seem to be tiring. Well, so much for the win for Clayton. Seems like bad things are always due to happen when you start out the inning with that kind of an error. Ozzie always prefers to take the starters out without an opportunity to get a loss, but the "bad" Dotel has returned. The funny thing is he has a great K/IP ratio, he actually was tied for bullpen pitchers in strikeouts with Howell last year, but you feel the same way you do when Jenks is out there in pressure situations...as good as our bullpen is, Linebrink and Thornton have plenty of bad moments, too. But the bullpen is the last area of our team to worry about, I suppose.

QUOTE (G&T @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 07:49 PM) Over 100 Not to mention the "mental stress" on Clayton having to field two balls on the infield. That probably counts for another 8-10 pitches right there.

Great fielding there Pods. I'm still not sure he's an asset without any defensive ability or the ability to steal a base.

Ramirez now credited with a hit on that slow roller to Hardy. Maybe he can give it to Gordon to raise his average to .110-.120?

Brian Anderson now hitting under .140 over the last week or so...not exactly making a strong case for keeping CF when/if Quentin returns. Getz robbed there, Pods robbed to end the last inning, really feels like we should be up 3-0 or 4-0 right now. Hopefully Beckham can get on track, because we don't have many hitters we can count on right now.

Don't think Ozzie will dare to go much longer with Clayton pitching on 3 days' rest, and the fact he was around 100 pitches last time out. Interesting to see who he might go to in the 6th...Poreda? Carrasco probably would be the call. Seems a bit early for Dotel or Thornton.

What did Ramirez do now that was a "mental" mistake? As much as Alexei gets picked on, it seems Pods and Anderson make just as many, if not more, mental mistakes. We're certainly not the brightest of teams in terms of "baseball IQ." And then we have Fields, who is one of the more "sensitive" players in recent White Sox history. This team needs a psychologist more than Greg Walker. And then there's Clayton, who you still worry whenever a ball is hit anywhere near him...will he field it cleanly or throw it down the RF line. But you have to say this for Richard, he's been about as good/surprising SO FAR in 2009 (compared to the low expectations of many) as Danks was last year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 06:13 PM) Frankly, this lineup looks an awful lot like a normal NL lineup for 80% of the teams in that league. With Brian Anderson hitting 5th? What teams are these, besides the Nationals and Padres? At least those teams have Gonzalez and Dunn/Guzman...we have Dye and that's about it.

How many times has Pods been picked off this year? 5? 6? He might be the worst baserunner we have...and his best way to steal has been to get picked off and have the 1B hit him on his way to second. It will be a minor miracle if we win one game this series with the line-up we're putting out there.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 11, 2009 -> 08:19 PM) Nice win, but... I've mentioned this before, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired of watching Alexei out there. I've been one of his biggest fans and backers the past 2 years, but this s*** is getting old. Since there's not much hope for the rest of the season, IMO, there's no point in not letting Alexei go out there everyday and try and prove something, but I'm getting to the point where I don't think he's good enough to be an everyday player. I would not be upset at all to see Beckham getting a lot of time at SS. Alexei can still be a very valuable utility guy who can play all 3 OF spots as well 2B, 3B, and SS with average or better D. However, I don't think Alexei can be counted on as an everyday player. He tries to hit home runs every AB, and he just doesn't seem to have much baseball IQ (he's a natural player, but he's a bonehead). After Thome/Dye/Konerko (especially with Paulie on the shelf and AJ struggling), Alexei's the one player on the roster who has the ability to carry and spark this team offensively with Carlos out. We saw it last year. Alexei's OPS is probably about the same or a little bit higher than Orlando Cabrera's last year...and he's got one of the best "bargain" contracts in the game. What other player in the line-up has shown the ability to have that kind of an offensive impact? Pods is hitting well, but he's not scaring anyone on the basepaths, but White Sox fans. Beckham isn't ready yet and he's starting to press. Fields (based on 2007 only) is the other player who COULD have this affect on the offensive production...Anderson, Nix and Getz are simply complementary players who wouldn't be starting on MOST serious World Series contenders. You can have a player or two like that in the line-up, but not 3-4.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 08:41 PM) Absolutely dreadful by AJP tonight. If you're not going to play Castro against Willis, why even have him on the team? Of course, that 700 OPS from Castro wouldn't hurt with our line-up. I wonder how much of it has to do with Buehrle being really comfortable with AJ? However, Mark's the kind of guy that doesn't really need an experienced catcher or one he's familiar with... The White Sox have to be last in the majors with RISP, correct?

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 01:05 PM) Type A distinction doesn't matter for those players because they're not getting arb at their salaries. Also, some of our veterans are very good and would be worth some very good young players, although I think in any deal we're far more likely to end up with projects who need a change of scenery and/or prospects who are 2+ years away. I could actually see Kenny both buying and selling. He did that in 2007 where he traded Iguchi & Mackowiak but also extended AJ, Buehrle, and Dye. Plus Kenny showed in 2004 that even during a bad season where the playoffs were unlikely, he'd still make a big addition to bolster the next season's team. He tried to acquire Carlos Delgado after we were basically out of it and he did pick up Contreras then. Overall I agree that it's unlikely we'll be moving the veterans right this minute. Not to mention that we traded for Freddy Garcia and subsequently signed him to an extension in 2004. That and the Contreras move were two huge keys that came before the momentous 2004/05 offseason. Dick Allen, Seriously, if you were the GM, what you do? Obviously, this team is a healthy Carlos Quentin, short above average production from 2B/3B/CF (Ramirez I think we can count on now for the rest of the season) and one starting pitcher short. You're telling me you would turn around and trade some of our core youngsters (Allen, Poreda, Flowers) for a 5-15% shot at winning this year. KW isn't or can't going to trade Viciedo, Beckham and Jordan Danks...and the next valuable players down the list are PROBABLY Josh Fields and/or John Shelby III. Do you really think the fanbase would be aggrieved if we were 10 games out at the end of July and KW traded Dotel or Dye to make this team better positioned for 2010? Now I'll grant you, trading Konerko or Jenks would send a few more shock waves, but KW isn't going to sit still. Would it really be better to TRY to compete with this fatally-flawed team in 2009 or wouldn't we much better off trying to have really good or great teams down the line? Yes, we definitely need to wait another four more weeks, but this 12 game homestand was the time to go 8-4 or 9-3 and get back to .500. What better opportunity were we going to have with two sub .500, last place teams at home and then a chance against the first place team in the division? What tells any of the fans that this team can compete besides blind optimism/hope/faith?

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Jun 8, 2009 -> 09:24 PM) Trade Fields, takes pressure off Becks. Gordon Beckham might be putting pressure on himself, but it has nothing to do with Josh Fields. OTOH, Beckham's promotion has gotten into Josh's head. First Joe Crede, now Beckham...he feels "victimized" by the organization and wants to use that as an excuse for not holding the position. 3B hit for power OR field. Do one or the other Josh, doing NEITHER doesn't guarantee you a position in ANY organization, not even Washington.

But then what happens if Gordon really struggles and has to go back down to the minors? Betemit is gone. Do we just play Nix there? Viciedo is far from ready.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 8, 2009 -> 09:16 PM) He hasn't really tried to pull anything yet. He's not swinging and missing, which is very promising. He's just in between a little bit, but he'll be fine. There's just a huge difference between the swings and hand speed of a Ramirez/Beckham versus Anderson/Fields. Alexei's swing got too big, but he has the hand speed to compensate. Josh and Brian do not...and Wise might as well go home. Nix, of the other hitters, has the type of swing it SEEMS could be productive or dangerous. If you followed him in the minors or ST, you'll know his natural swing is between the 2B and the bag, right up the RCF alley/gap. He'll be a doubles machine and give you 16-24 homers per season playing 81 games at USCF.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 8, 2009 -> 08:56 PM) Completely false. You are saying his lack of feel for his pitches was mental and not the huge layoff from rehabbing a career threatening injury? Seriously, sometimes I wonder where people get this stuff. I especially like the use of a statistic there pointing at something you have looked at subjectively. You're discounting the fact that he doesn't have a 95-97 MPH fastball to work with anymore. That will give any pitcher a lot of confidence, just like when Bartolo was dominant....you could see it with Bonderman in the low 90's/high 80's instead of mid 90's. Yes, a large part of it was/is mechanical when you come back from that kind of injury. You lose your consistent release point...and then when you jump around from different arm angles, it becomes that much more difficult to get a feel. Jose just has to be more precise with location and not pitch from behind in the count. Easier said than done. Ahead in the count, dominant with the forkball as a strikeout pitch, as long as it's close to the zone and the hitters don't lay off it. One of the things Jose hasn't done well since 2006 was knock hitters off the plate. When he misses inside, it's almost always center cut/inner half of the plate, not as much movement (backing up a bit). And he can't throw 90% fastballs from the side either. When he throws that slurve out and away, slicing across the other side of the plate on RH hitters, he's MUCH more effective because that gives them almost another pitch to think about, when he's basically a two and sometimes one pitch pitcher.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 8, 2009 -> 07:51 PM) Or maybe the guy is such a f***ing gamer he hurried back from what many of us thought was a career ending injury so he could play for this team again which led to a small mechanical flaw and a lack of feel pitches. Or maybe he just doesnt have balls like alot of the people on here say about Floyd....at least when he is losing. No, he just gets a little bit afraid of contact and starts nibbling...but I wouldn't say it's a lack of balls. Like most pitchers, it's 90% confidence in his stuff. He needed to prove to himself that he could go out and win a key game and be a "stopper" again. He's just not as good since 2007 at battling like John usually does without his best stuff, and Mark almost always does...keeping the club in the game the 60-70% of the time he's not feeling great out there. Ramirez at his high water mark, .261 and 662 OPS now.