caulfield12

Of course, Nathan was a failed starter with SF, same as Foulke. Jenks, in the Angels' organization. Won't go through all the examples, except disagreeing with the fact that Jenks perhaps has too many pitches (like a starter) but not any one dominant pitch that's a go-to pitch the last couple of weeks out. At least not a pitch he can use with 100% confidence, consistency and command in the zone. The main reason Jenks can't start is stamina/conditioning and injury concerns. Perhaps the best example of a team riding it out with a "horrible" closer was Mr. Jones in DET last year. I do think they would have pulled him and tried Zumaya in that role, had he been healthy. And Rodney was very bad 2-3 seasons ago (always had the raw stuff, though) and now he's becoming very effective again in 08/09. In our division, you'd have to rank them Nathan/Soria/Rodney/Jenks and then Wood. That's five pretty good pitchers, at least Wood and Jenks were effective until this season, and 22/26 still at least LOOKS decent on paper, despite the 4.33 ERA.

Is the cost of acquiring Sherrill close to worth it? Wouldn't it be better, if we did pull Jenks, to at least give Thornton a shot at the job first? You'd hate to give away a big piece of our future offense in Tyler Flowers when this team could be knocked completely out of the race in the next 10 days of the season...

It's not the 3 versus 4 blown saves. That game against the Angels, it's over if Nathan doesn't TIP the ball (fluke 1) and then it bounced right off the bag (fluke 2) when the game easily would have been over with neither eventuality occuring. I've listened to and watched a lot of Twins' games over the years. Nathan's "fall" is a little like Mo Rivera's...he's great still, but not unbeatable anymore or like Superman. Jenks has CONSISTENTLY and VISIBLY been struggling with both his stuff and confidence. You don't get the same feeling from watching Nathan. If Nathan and Jenks were both put on the market today, Nathan could get you a Fernando Martinez (if the Mets were close to being in it, just as an example). He's still THAT good.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 05:34 PM) I don't think you make those decisions based on schedule. And, ironically, the White Sox usually do fairly well (over the last ten years or so especially) against the Yankees and Red Sox. But there's no recovery from getting run out of town and swept by both the Tigers and the Twins...what it will do is re-energize the Twins probably and catapult them back into the race the remaining two months.

I would have created a poll, but don't have the energy. Is there anyone who could actually do any better and come out of "nowhere" like Jenks did in 2005? Dotel? Thornton? Pena? Are ANY of those options NOT going to be demonstrably WORSE? The one we keep speculating about is Thornton...but there's lots of counter-evidence about suitability for that role. And we have what in the minors? Nunez? Link? Santeliz? It's looking like Jenks might turn into another Joe Crede and we'll wish we would have traded him this past off-season. I hope this team recovers enough to win ONE game tomorrow, or you really start speculating about the season that looked so promising just days ago completely slipping away. Fathom was right, even though it's not 8 games out (possibly 4 games out), heading straight into a tsunami of a schedule without a bullpen...this team has been the biggest tease of the last decade, at least since 2003. Was there anyone who felt we were actually going to win the game heading into the top of the 10th? Not many, if there were. Ozzie needs to do something to shake this team up, but I'm not sure what that is...or if pulling Jenks from the closer's role in the 2nd half will do anything but make things even worse.

What a swing of emotions over the course of four games...I was thinking we were just going to take off as a team like in 2003, but that was a pipedream to think this team could replicate the 2nd half of 2003 or that these Tigers are as vulnerable as those Royals were.

What are the odds of the Sox recovering from a 4 game sweep, if it were to happen? Feels like the entire season is on the line, but if Jenks can't be the closer anymore...it's pretty much history for us anyway. The only hope is that the Twins have been equally worse in recent days, if not more abysmal.

QUOTE (nastymasty21 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:05 AM) They need to sure up the bullpen somehow. Linebrink is god awful. Thornton is the only one I feel comfortable with. He failed last night, but what do you expect when he comes in to clean up linebrinks mess all the time. Its time to let Thornton start the 8th. In other words, he is now officially your second best pitcher and starts the 8th (no matter what), which prevents him from coming on with runners on base...which always seems to cause him a hiccup, like Jenks in a tie game or blowout. Heck, if Jenks doesn't get it back together (and he will be pressed these next few weeks by top competition)...we might have to use Thornton, Dotel or Pena as our closer. With Jenks and Linebrink iffy, it's going to be tough. Every ALCD has its obvious and well-documented flaws though. For the Tigers: 1) Offense, offense, offense....Everett, Raburn, Thomas, Polanco, Ordonez all inconsistent or struggling, and Laird's a defense-first catcher 2) Bullpen 3) Back end of the rotation 4) Pitch counts/IP for Verlander, Jackson and Porcello 5) Carlos Guillen's again apparently healthy, BUT can he be a full-time DH without getting hurt again? You'd have to think a healthy Jake Peavy approved trade and we take the division (along with healthy Quentin)...right now, the odds are about 20-25% Although having more road games than home games isn't as much of a concern as last year. But no GOP National Convention to send the Twins into a tailspin, either.

Once again, we're looking at definitely losing Flowers if we traded for Sherrill. I guess you take a good arm (right or left) wherever you can get it, but the White Sox will pay an additional premium because he's a LHP, and the biggest weakness in our pen right now (assuming Jenks is actually okay) has been Linebrink and to a lesser extent, Dotel and Carrasco. Although Pena has shown some flashes, he's been erratic, as well.

Does anyone believe KW's recent comments have led to even ONE solitary White Sox "casual" fans attending a game out of "pity" for our poor economic situation...versus simply having a contending/exciting team that had been playing well and was much more fun to watch than in the first two weeks of the season?

QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 01:45 AM) It seems all of you guys are saying it is more a matter of the hitting and not the pitching? But the defense woes have also hurt us. I try to understand the errors at SS/3rd with both Slayer and Alexei playing out of position but the pitching is what concerns me most. Yeah the hitting is also very problematic. Just not consistent enough then to put a real finger on it? Is it our scouting that's poor? Defensive positioning? Pitching against the defense? Inge hit the ball where Alexei was playing Thames, and he played too far into the hole to get to a "routine" ball hit up the middle. If Ramirez is overcompensating for not being able to go right as we as he moves and throws to the left, can anyone else play the position with more range, besides Nix? I'm sure if the team felt a huge benefit would accrue from Beckham at SS and Ramirez at 2B with Getz/Nix as back-ups, then you'd see a trade forcing a Wigginton/Mora/Kouzamanoff into that position for at least one or two years...or Fields playing everyday over there (again).

Well, our offense was only hitting .241 at home...pretty hard to win any division when you don't have a clear home field advantage like we did last year. This team might end up potentially better (with a healthy Quentin) and the line-up (minus clutch hitting today) has been firing since Beckham and Pods injected life....but there have to be huge red flags now with the bullpen and back of the rotation...although Contreras, Colon, Richard and Torres all had good outings recently.

The Hunter contract could have been crippling in years 4 and 5, but how valuable would he have been in 2008/09/10? Probably not worth the risk at his age. Fukudome and Rowand, we really lucked out on, not signing. Of course, if we miss the playoffs, everyone will say we would have made it with Swisher and Javy.

Our bullpen is absolutely garbage right now...and our clutch hitting, non-existent.

I thought it was the Twins who were done with the 3 best AL East teams....not the Tigers. But the Tigers have the favorable home series against us and the Twins the last week of the season.

Well, Colon will be pulled pretty soon. Like first game, a lot of missed offensive opportunities...should have scored more against Bonine and Seay. Still don't understand why Alexei is playing so far into the hole (on Thames)...that should have been a routine groundout up the middle instead of a single. Did anyone think Richard, Torres and Colon would pitch as well as they did? WOW.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 05:33 PM) Nope. Sox had no reason to trade him, and as such, should be haunted by his success. Just wait until Linebrink/Dotel/Jenks go on the DL...then we will see the logic behind KW's thinking, or when Dotel is traded...and the prospect/s we get to replace Allen.

Agree with everything you said except for the significance of Carrasco and our concern about him getting a payday in arbitration. We let a much better pitcher in David Riske get away without offering him arbitration. I suppose it could be a bit dependent on what happens with Dotel/Linebrink and Pena, but keeping Carrasco around is issue #10-15 on KW's offseason board. Yes, Ozzie likes him a lot, but he's not an integral part of our future either. If KW thinks he'll be too expensive, he will give that position to Nunez, Santeliz, Omogrosso, Link, Rodriguez, Russell, Fr. Hernandez, etc.

I think Colon has given up 8 or 9 homers in his last 20 IP. Note to KW, this is not going to work...

Wise made a lot of contact in the first game against Verlander...but it was a risky move. It's not like he's a high probability DP candidate. Would have liked to have seen Castro get a chance there. Wise saved one run today and gave one back...so he nullified his play on Granderson, basically.

For all those against Wise being in two consecutive games, do you really want to have him (CGQ) on his feet for 6-7 hours in one day? Or DHing against a RHP instead of Thome? There aren't really any other options, besides playing Nix in LF and Pods in CF...which makes no sense against a RHP, either.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) I hate that pussie Verlander almost as much as that pussie Punto on the Twins. He's got all this bravado, I wish we kicked him in the dick today....oh well More than Balfour? Punto is playing his way out of the starting line-up there, I love Twins players with OPS numbers in Punto/D.Young/Casilla/Buscher/Tolbert territory. Please, keep playing him Gardenhire. Brendan Harris is much more dangerous offensively...although I understand why Gardy prefers going defense first and expecting M&M Boys, Kubel, Cuddyer and Span to carry the load. The Twins would be in much better shape if Gomez or Young played up to their potential.

But if Nix can maintain an 800+ BA against lefties and play Gold Glove defense (unlike Betemit), those are two pretty valuable qualities...and he's inarguably a better back-up SS than Getz. Still, the bigger question going forward is not Nix but moving Beckham to 2B, going with Fields there again or making a veteran acquisition for 3B (although if the right 30-34 year old 2B, like an Alomar closer to his prime than when he actually came to the Sox would be an interesting option too, especially a leadoff hitter to provide insurance for Pods and maybe RH, to leadoff versus LHP)

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) from the Richard end you mean? Because Poreda is very young and I highly doubt any scout has changed their opinion on him (good or bad) because he had a few shaky outings pitching out of the pen, one of them coming after a huge layoff due to the all star break. I would say it's probably 60-70% Richard (he certainly reversed it a bit with his last outing, though)....30-40% disappointment with Poreda's fastball as well as overall stuff, vis a vis expectations.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 11:51 AM) Without knowing what the Sox think of him behind closed doors, I wouldn't complain if he got another chance, esp. if he played some winterball, worked on his swing, etc. We know Fields can legitimately hit MLB pitching, he's done so before. With Allen gone from our system, we're looking at having Getz, Beckham, Fields, Alexei, Konerko to cover the infield and DH positions next year prior to any trades or FA moves, with a hole in RF. It's plausible someone could be re-upped to fill 1 or 2 of those slots, but right now he has to be an option for next year, and hopefully the people in the back rooms feel like he's working better than Anderson did with the team and with the coaching staff. You're writing off Nix?