caulfield12

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 05:23 PM) PK's contract isn't as burdensome next year since others are going away. I agree that if you can move it, probably not a bad idea, but KW and the org has done a good job, and gotten a little lucky, so there's nothing crippling after this year Linebrink's contract is definitely starting to look like the worse contract we have going forward. We can't pick on Contreras (who still might be a key, one that nobody expected TWICE now), MacDougal or Paulie anymore. Nor is the Thome contract, which was a very good bargain until this season because of the Phillies' subidization of it, going to be on the books either. I can just imagine if the Peavy deal had gone through...we'd be looking like we were on the wrong side of the Mike Sirotka/Wells deal, and four players short, including two of our most promising young pitchers for the future.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 05:14 PM) The Sox are sellers. If we win and move onto the playoffs it will be because our young players play good. The team isn't going to win the world series and we'll be contenders as long as our starters pitch decently but that doesn't mean we should pretend and make short sighted moves. Kenny needs to be smart and now is the time to move some guys and get our youngsters some experience and who knows we'll still be able to compete and maybe make the playoffs and in that case, it'll be great experience for our youngsters. That's THE argument for why the Twins should win this year after doing unexpectedly well with youngsters after "retooling" on the go with the losses of Hunter and Santana and staying in the race until Game 163, which they still believe they were robbed of due to the coin flip. Unfortunately for the Twins, they've also seen regressions from Baker, Liriano, Gomez, D. Young, Casilla, their bullpen is short an arm or two and Nathan's not quite the imposing/dominant figure he was coming out of the bullpen 2-3 seasons ago.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 03:06 PM) Seriously, I raelize Ozzie made some bad calls, but you do realize the beloved savior all of you guys wanted to put in, Thornton, also failed to get the job done. His job was more difficult than Linebrinks but he too failed. Bottom line you win as a team and lose as a team and the Sox didn't execute on bit. I personally don't care, the club isn't going anywhere and I'm watching games to see how the future of the organization does. I hope we win, but I hope its because of our young guys developing and while Getz had a less than stellar defensive game thats okay because he's starting to hit and figure stuff out and defensively he is darn good. It seems as if Anderson and Getz might end up having the remainder of the season to prove they're everyday players, which many here have wanted. Beckham will get to play everyday as well, leaving Fields (and Nix) obviously as the odd men out. If nothing else, we should know whether those two guys can be counted on for 2010. Ramirez is starting to look a little more clutch, and no longer an offensive liability. Six weeks ago, you couldn't even be sure he would rally and look like a major league regular again in 2009. Playing without Quentin and Thome is another issue...the White Sox weren't THAT good LAST season, and that was with a HEALTHY/PRODUCTIVE CQ. Perhaps we can pull off competing for the entire season without adding pieces at the break (especially if the starting pitching continues to do well), but we're neither as good or yesterday or as bad as today. As you said, we're a team in flux/transition from the old to the new. Actually, it's nice they are still in the race and it looks like we will be playing meaningful games for at least a couple more months.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 03:00 PM) He also booted two grounders right at him. The second one looked like a bad hop, but you have to get that ball. If that out is made, the bad 8th might have never happened. And that's why Linebrink is paid millions of dollars...to pitch over those types of errors, the contract given to him was for one of the best set-up men in baseball, even with his 2.25 ERA after today, he hasn't pitched as if he belongs to be in that category any longer. Unfortunately for KW, he's going to be paid that way for the next 2 1/2 seasons, whether we like it or not...and probably used in that role until he has 2-3 more disasters and has to be replaced by Dotel.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:57 PM) Did yesterday not happen? Why would you assume we get swept by the Dodgers (responding to the post you responded to)....? The White Sox have been getting REALLY good starting pitching of late, we've been in most games, and there's not any reason to think with the crazy way this season has gone that we WON'T win two out of three. The Dodgers don't have any competition in the NL West, they're not THAT good. If we're going to look back at any stretch of this season, it's the 4-8 homestand as well as going 2-3 against the Tigers when it coulda/shoulda/woulda been 3-2 or even 4-1 in our favor. If our starting pitching continues to do this well, we could easily sweep the Reds. Or we could be the same team that was wiped out by the A's, Royals, Rangers and Blue Jays at different times this season. The Cubs were just more DESPERATE to win this game...usually, playing that way leads to losses, but they just wanted it more in the end. Once again, this White Sox team doesn't really have any sort of identity yet, and we're 40% of the way through the season.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Ozzie f***ed this game up today. I don't know why he's in love with Linebrink now for some reason. Has he been blind for the past month? Linebrink has been terrible. Those two runs in the 8th did us in. If we didn't score those, Thornton comes in and we probably win this game. Getz was also horrible at second today. He made the best play of the game on a ball up the middle by Fukudome that would have scored a run had it gotten through. We could have survived the Lee homer, it was the Soto one that blatantly said "when/how will the White Sox manage to lose this one?"

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Ozzie f***ed this game up today. I don't know why he's in love with Linebrink now for some reason. Has he been blind for the past month? Linebrink has been terrible. Those two runs in the 8th did us in. If we didn't score those, Thornton comes in and we probably win this game. Getz was also horrible at second today. He made the best play of the game on a ball up the middle by Fukudome that would have scored a run had it gotten through. We could have survived the Lee homer, it was the Soto one that blatantly said "when/how will the White Sox manage to lose this one?"

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) Crushing loss Ties the Cubs' biggest rally from four runs down against the Marlins...a game they ended up winning 8-6. We're a .500 team, beating the Cubs two games in a row won't matter in the overall scheme of things unless KW sells off the farm system to improve the team this year, and that's NOT very likely...and probably would not be supported by many here.

It seems the only pitchers who really have balls on this team are the starters and Bobby Jenks when he has the lead. Otherwise, the bullpen looks GREAT on paper but can't get the job done when it's time to put your foot down on the neck of the other team and crush them. We're going to have our moments in the second half and Beckham and Getz will continue to be fun to watch, but we're at best a .500 team.

Have to try something offspeed with Soriano or he will time that FB.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:48 PM) Ok...now we just need the $15 million man. Gavin Floyd??? Would have turned out differently had Ozzie stuck with him for the 8th, unfortunately. He has really been on a roll, just like Jose.

QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) After such a nice weekend in Milwaukee and yesterday, back to the same old bulls***. I hate this team. It's the Cubs/Sox. Almost no victories are ever easy. That's why it's 34-33 Sox over the span of 12+ years. It certainly seemed like it was going to be easy after we added those two "insurance" runs, though. Well, this game imploded pretty quickly...looks like we are determined not to miss our flight to Cincy.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:39 PM) I dont care if I should be able to retire 3 batters, as soon as you see that the pitcher you put in is not going to be able to do that, you f***ing yank them. How many games have the Sox lost because Ozzie goes to Dotel or Linebrink first, and then calls in Thornton when its to late. Its not like Thornton has been over used, its just f***ing stupidity. Well, Thornton inexorably gives up multiple runs when he comes into games with runners on base, but definitely you put Thornton into the game against Soto and force Soto to really dial it up. The guy only had three homers all season coming into that AB.

Anyone predicting that Jenks gives up the walk-off if it's a tie game? I hope they use Thornton in the bottom of the 9th if it's tied over Bobby...maybe even Dotel, but definitely not Jenks in a tie game.

Well, you either yank him after the first two batters reached or after Lee's HR there. When you pay Linebrink and Dotel the type of money they're getting as set-up men, they HAVE to do the job. The bullpen is supposed to be the strength of this team. It's obvious that Scott just doesn't have the same crispness on his fastball and pitches in general that he had the first half of 08 before the injury. OTOH, it seems that the White Sox pitching can now keep them in the ALCD race and Beckham and Getz are looking really good, despite the error that was ruled last inning on Chris that was a tough one-hopper.

Well, I would have to say there was even MORE hype about Ventura because of the DiMaggio like hitting streak he had at OSU, even if he was drafted in a fairly similar position. And I think Ozzie's point was that scouts were already starting to see glimpses of all the hard work that Ventura was putting into the defensive side of things...work that would blossom into the best defensive 3B of his generation with the White Sox, even though a few believe Crede in his prime was better. Perhaps part of it is also to shield Beckham from scrutiny for his defense, as we've moved him around already from his natural SS to 2B and now to 3B in the span of less than one year...and he was already well into double figures in errors at Birmingham 1/3rd of the way through the season. Ventura and Thomas were coming up at a time when the only pressure on them was to succeed individually, but not on a competitive team where there was any pressure on the manager (I guess it was either Fregosi or Torborg that season) to compete for the division title. That wouldn't come until the surprise team of 1990 that seemingly came out of nowhere to compete all season long with the hated A's. So key differences: 1) Ventura's hitting streak made him perhaps the most famous player in the country 2) Ventura was allowed to stay at his natural position 3) His 0/41 streak was not juxtaposed against a team fighting for the division crown in a heightened media market 4) There wasn't a 20 year history of failed White Sox position prospects (outside of Durham, Cameron, Lee, Ordonez, Rowand and Crede) 5) Usually Ozzie is "crazy like a fox" trying to defer attention from players and put it back on himself so they perform in and out of the bubble

You might as well put this game under protest right now, not that it would matter. Great job again Wise, it's always good when batters who can't hit can't do any of the little things like bunting and moving hitters along. How did a player who spent a bit of time in the NL without being a power hitter ever make it to the majors without being able to bunt at all?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 02:33 AM) We should get Trade Winds back up. It's time to start suggesting what kind of returns we can get from the people we sell. I think AJ is the only real lock to stay on the team veteran-wise with Thome (contract) running a close second. I hope that doesn't mean you're suggesting we would/should/could be trading Mark Buehrle?

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) Fantastic post. I think your last sentence is really very true. I've always been a huge fan of Ozzie and have defended him over the last few years for the dumb things he has said (even with his Mariotti is a "f**" thing - i always thought that was blown out of proportion). And after the World Series year, I especially felt like I'd never want another manager on this team except for Ozzie (as long as Ozzie still wanted to do the job). Unfortunately, in the last few weeks or so, I've begun to feel that if Ozzie doesn't make a few personal changes to the way he handles young players (particularly highly touted ones), Kenny may need to consider finding a new manager. We're about to start a youth movement, whether he likes it or not, and if he can't change, then we don't need his negative bulls*** around or else nobody is going to play well. Unfortunately, I don't think Ozzie can change. I think he'd rather get fired than change how he does things, which makes me feel it could be a realistic possibility of seeing him go in the next year or two. Also, some might say that "so and so" is a mental midget if he can't handle what Ozzie is saying, but I say that's bull. Even the cockiest/most confident of players won't play well if their manager is constantly saying things to downplay/criticize them. That's a bad way of managing, but even worse that he does this stuff in public so that millions of people can read about it. Keep it in the clubhouse, Ozzie - especially with the new guys. It would be one thing if Konerko was batting .200 going into mid-June, then I'd be okay if he called him out publicly. But saying things about new guys needing to produce immediately or their ass will be on a plane back to Charlotte is ridiculous. Most rookies aren't going to come in and light the world on fire. I don't know why he doesn't seem to understand that. Who is this manager that you speak of? Jerry Manuel? Well, he was supposedly GREAT with the young players in 1998-2000, but then he wasn't respected enough in the clubhouse to motivate or push them over the top, right? What manager wouldn't look at the White Sox job as a stepping stone to another bigger, better organization? The type of manager who bleeds White Sox black and takes the losses just as hard as the fans do? Undoubtedly, something will happen between KW/Ozzie and Reinsdorf this season...and, most realistically, Ozzie would go before Kenny. I'm not sure if it's that Ozzie thinks he's more important or integral to the organization than Williams, or he brings more fans to the park, or what's going on...but there's obviously a massive battle of egos at play. Or go back to Joe Girardi a few years ago when he was fired. Everyone said he was great with that young Marlins team, but then he's done so-so in New York, has been accused to being a hard-ass and too controlling and also ruining a number of pitchers. I think Kenny also realizes bringing in another manager puts the focus squarely on him...if those players fail, it will be much harder to blame a new manager than it is to blame Guillen now. After all, Ozzie has NEVER had the type of team he wanted, and maybe he never will, since we play half of our games at USCF. I think perhaps he does favor players like Lillibridge, Nix and Getz (or even Owens) over players like Anderson and Fields who have such horrible strikeout ratios. Perhaps that's a bias more in favor of players who can execute the fundamentals...another that Ozzie repeatedly singled out for praise when he was here was Tadahito Iguchi. It's not like any of our former minor leaguers have gone on to great success elsewhere. Chris Young? Sweeney? Jeremy Reed? It has been an almost 100% fail rate for those younger players outside of Chicago, Joe Borchard is yet another example that comes to mind. I guess we can look back at Aardsma now, but he pitched his way out of numerous organizations with his stubborness. Everyone in Chicago was ready to get MacDougal, no surprise that he is doing better in a non-pressure situation like Washington (see Wells, Kip). Maybe we just have to realize that Fields and Anderson just aren't that good and move on instead of holding on to Ozzie mistreatment as a defense for their struggles.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 12:05 PM) To me the most interesting part was when he talked about how guys, no matter how cocky they are, have doubts as to whether they belong when they are called up. That alone tells me that you as the manager need to make them feel as welcomed as possible. And I have on good record that Ozzie didn't always do a good job of that (*cough*Brandon McCarthy*cough*). However, I had hoped he had improved and I'm going to have to hope he has and if he hasn't I'm confident that Kenny would than make the right decision and find a manager that works better with young players. I can also point to pitchers that Ozzie has done a great job handling (Richard, Danks, Floyd, Garland) I think Ozzie, like any manager, prefers to have young players that are really ready for the big leagues and can justify their place in the line-up. Let's go back to last season, he benched Uribe in the early part of the season (the same guy who had been a starter for 4 seasons and was a major part of a championship in 05) for a rookie in Alexei Ramirez...we can't just say he's biased towards Latin players, because of the four examples above. Sure, there's Sean Tracey as well, but Ozzie has had problems/issues with veterans like Ordonez, Lee, O-Cabrera, Marte, Swisher, etc. Seemingly he has had a sterling record with Griffey, Thome, AJ, Crede, Dye, Konerko, Buehrle, Jenks, etc. It's always going to be a "chemistry" issue when the team isn't talented and is losing. How can anyone say that Ozzie has done anything but an excellent job with Clayton Richard, for example? Thornton, although he wasn't young, was "young" in terms of experience and success at the MLB level. They seemingly made the right decision with Contreras, for example...maybe they trusted him too much in allowing him to start the season when he wasn't ready, but nobody was clamoring here for Marquez or Poreda at the beginning of the season, either. He played Wasserman, Owens, Fields and Andy Gonzalez in 2007 when there was no other choice...what has our team really produced since Ventura/Thomas in terms of position players? Durham/Ordonez/Lee and then Crede/Rowand over a span of about 20 years. Ozzie has good reason to be skeptical about any rookie coming up and contributing, especially one rushed more than Thomas and Ventura. Can any manager realistically expect to get more out of the likes of the Sean Tracey's and Lance Broadway's of the world?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 08:04 PM) It was to premature to take him out. Let him try and finish the inning at the very least. Ozzie likes to take his pitchers out before they have an opportunity to lose, and I freaking hate that idea. You should let the pitchers have the opportunity to win. And that, in combo with our god awful defensive positioning with the pitcher at bat, is gonna cost us the game, most likely. Well, what does it tell you that we're advocating leaving Clayton Richard, basically a rookie paid minimum wage, over using Octavio Dotel, a veteran pitcher who is paid $6.5 million a season to get those types of outs??? Clayton is pitching on 3 days' rest and if the bullpen can't hold a two run lead, we don't deserve to win anyway. Not to mention the fact that our offense mustering an amazing output of 2 runs against Jeff Suppan isn't going to win more than 10-20% of the games with an offense (albeit sleeping/dormant) like the Brewers have.

Clutch two-out hitting. Wow, that's what it looks like?? Gordon's not striking out very much, but his contact just hasn't been very solid in terms of producing line drives like in ST or in the minors. Wow, a Fields pop-up? There's a surprise.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 07:56 PM) My question is why was Pods playing so deep with Suppan at bat? 1) Because Pods is afraid to go back on balls 2) Because Alexei has the most range into the outfield and down the foul line of any SS in the American League Still very stupid....how many times will Suppan drive a ball to LF over Pods' head? 1% of the time? You have to play the percentages and "dare" him to beat you. And the ghosts of 2007 are approaching even closer...the only question is what players will remain on the team at the end of the season and how will Ozzie's and KW's sanity hold up with another season like they promised they would NEVER go through again?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 07:50 PM) 102 for Richard. Still would have let him finish the inning. Did not seem to be tiring. Well, so much for the win for Clayton. Seems like bad things are always due to happen when you start out the inning with that kind of an error. Ozzie always prefers to take the starters out without an opportunity to get a loss, but the "bad" Dotel has returned. The funny thing is he has a great K/IP ratio, he actually was tied for bullpen pitchers in strikeouts with Howell last year, but you feel the same way you do when Jenks is out there in pressure situations...as good as our bullpen is, Linebrink and Thornton have plenty of bad moments, too. But the bullpen is the last area of our team to worry about, I suppose.

QUOTE (G&T @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 07:49 PM) Over 100 Not to mention the "mental stress" on Clayton having to field two balls on the infield. That probably counts for another 8-10 pitches right there.