caulfield12

That $8 million baseline is very appealing. The Yankees would have had to pay him a minimum of $12.8 million this year, but there would have been no guarantees of winning had they gone to arbitration...the risk is much, much less offering to Abreu (assuming he doesn't get injured or fall off the map) than it was to Cabrera. Cabrera was all about pride, ego, the showdown with KW/OG against his Cabrera's best business interests. The last MLB TR story about him had the A's picking him up after the June player draft (nixing the comp. to the SOX) for around $2-3 million, then him heading into the offseason as a Type B or C Free Agent and much more attractive to other clubs. Right now, it's killing Juan Cruz, too.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 01:34 PM) You're missing the point. The idea wouldn't be to use the guy as a starter. Gonzalez is the only contract they have that they've added prior to Jocketty taking over that would fit as far as making salaries work. The Reds have said that they don't have the money to take on a contract the size of Dye's. That means something has to happen to offset that salary if a deal is to be done. Obviously Lilli is better. We have Beckham who I believe Ozzie just said will likely have to switch positions. He'll be at 2B with Alexei at SS, then there's Dayan and Fields for third. Lilli might be available in the right deal, same with Getz, if the Sox are a lot higher on the other guys. The point is, it's like an NBA salary cap thing. You take one garbage player on an expiring contract and then add him to a bunch of very good players and then you deal for a star when you get the salaries to come out the right way. Dealing Gonzalez would represent a savings for the Reds only, not something good for the Sox. In return the Sox would then want enough in the prospect department to make taking on the contract worth it and to also offset the value of Lillibridge's talents. Again, just an idea that is probably a longshot, but the Reds don't have a SS and Lilli could be a guy they'd target in a deal with us anyway. If we didn't have Betemit, maybe. But the fact is, Uribe, in this market, isn't even worth a major league contract or anything over $1 million. We'd be adding a negligible player on to our payroll in these tough economic times that wouldn't be too far off from Nick Swisher's contract numbers. There's got to be a better fit from larger market club that doesn't have the same salary concerns. The Dodgers just had $25 million for one year to Manny Ramirez turned down, if they don't bring in Dunn and Hudson, that might be a perfect fit, as JD's a native Californian and they have $30 million in available payroll space right now. I just can't think of a time we took a garbage player/extra contract on in a deal...MAYBE Vizcaino coming with Pods, but that's as close as you get in KW's regime. And I think Vizcaino was still more valuable in that 2005 bullpen then he was given credit for.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:59 PM) That sounds possible. Another scenario, and it's admittedly a longshot IMO, is Alex Gonzalez coming here. I thought that when we picked up Lilli it might be a precursor to a Dye deal because the Reds need a SS who doesn't suck. Gonzalez makes $5.375M with a $500K buyout. If the Sox did something like Dye + Lillibridge ($11.8M) for Alex Gonzalez, Homer Bailey, $1M cash, and about 2 good prospects then the salary would work (about $4.8M). The Reds would add $7M while the Sox would clear $7M. It seems like the Sox really like Lilli though and it seems like Bailey is just enough alone to get Dye, so those prospects would have to be really good, and I don't know what the Reds would be able to offer. Dickerson certainly doesn't fit that description. Alexei Ramirez/Beckham >>> Gonzalez (better and cheaper) Lillibridge >>> Gonzalez (cheaper, upside potential) It makes not a whole lot of sense....neither does Encarnacion, although at least we theoretically have more of a hole there (3B) than at SS. If it was going to be anyone, I would have thought Freel would be more of KW's type of player than Gonzalez. But I don't even think KW would pick up the phone to trade Gonzalez for Lillibridge straight up. Some team in need of a bat like the Dodgers, Reds or Angels will come calling with a better deal. KW can wait until Abreu/Dunn and Manny Ramirez are off the market. There's even talk of Griffey, Jr., signing with the Mets for less than $1 million...

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) We have a 3/4/5/6 in our lineup with immense power. Speed is extremely overrated. It's not QUITE as balanced as the 2000 juggernaut, but it's close. AJ and Ramirez aren't exactly chopped liver, particularly Ramirez, with his power potential. Then you've got the likes of Brian Anderson, Fields/Viciedo and Beckham that all have lots of power potential. Theoretically, you could have 20-25 homers from all 9 positions on the diamond. Beckham 2B Ramirez SS Quentin LF Thome DH Dye RF Konerko/Allen 1B AJ/Flowers C Fields/Viciedo 3B Anderson CF

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....-sox-agree.html Rosenblog thoughts...a few things not mentioned yet on this thread about the Abreu situation. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?...;name=Neyer_Rob Another recent article debating the merit/worth of an Abreu acquistion for any team.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:45 PM) Agreed with your logic, but that hasn't kept Swisher, Griffey, Erstad, and Mackowiak out of CF in recent years. My guess is that Figgins would probably end up playing 3B, but history suggests that Ozzie would make room for him in CF if Fields had a good ST. Or they're going to bring in all reputed sinkerball pitchers and hope/pray that Ramirez, Lillibridge (I picked him because he has more upside defensively at 2B than Getz, but Beckham has to fit in somewhere, too) and Viciedo/Fields can keep any ball from getting to the outfield.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:04 PM) Where does everyone play in that example? Thome-DH, Viciedo/Allen/Betemit-1B, Quentin-LF, Dye-RF, Abreu-? I guess you go out and offer Dye to any team willing to give up their best AA/AAA starter that currently needs an OF bat. Reds/Angels/Dodgers/Braves/Nationals. Take your pick.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) To be fair, we have seen guys like Jr, Everett, and Makowiak play out there. They don't seem to value defense out there too much. Swisher Wise Owens washed up Erstad Brian Daubach (I think that happened once, or maybe it was Magglio)

Another variation/permutation: Konerko for Figgins (net $7 million) Dunn signed for 1B (lose $7 million?) Abreu signed (lose $8 million) Dye traded for young pitching (Bailey/Adenhart, saving $11.5 million) Marti/Looper/Wolf signed as 5th=$3.5 million The only problem is that you overweigh with lefties almost....strange, after we've been such a righty-dominated team for so long, to think of a line-up that goes out there with as many as five or six (if you include AJ and Getz). That would also save the White Sox money. Arguably, you might even have enough left over to add Marti/Looper/Wolf as your 4th/5th. ($3.5 million) Net payroll addition=ZERO

QUOTE (Want2Repeat @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) First off, I suspect that this is just another garbage rumor that has no merit. Also, you would have to question if Abreu would even sign such a deal. If we read "Sox sign Abreu to a 1 Year Deal", then we can get carried away. With that said, this has been such a boring offseason, that I too welcome any opportunity to speculate on Sox moves. In regards to Figgins for Dye or whoever, remember that KW would not necessarily see that as a one for one trade. At Soxfest, he preached about how he always looks at the money saved in a deal and what it leads to next. For example, he claims that they were able to sign the Cuban 3rd baseman, with money saved from trading Swisher. I don' t know how all of the salaries would net out, but he may see trading Dye for a minor leaguer, and then signing Abreu, would net $3MM to $4MM on the plus side, which would then allow us to sign the next Cuban star, or whoever else. I think adding Figgins and Abreu, then subtracting Dye, would leave the Sox with more net salary, however. So, if they were to sign Abreu, I see Dye being moved for a minor leaguer, allowing them to net a plus on the salary side. I also have this vision/fear of them thinking Abreu could play CF as well. He couldn't be much worse than Swisher out there. This certainly would be counter-intuitive to everything KW has preached over the last three months, however. Here's another option: Konerko for Figgins (CF/3B and leadoff) Abreu signed Viciedo/Allen/Betemit share 1B Yadel Marti/Looper/Randy Wolf signed as 5th starter Wouldn't that be an arguably stronger team (as long as you're not convinced Poreda/Marquez will win AL ROY)? The one disavantage is you have a lot of pressure on Fields, Viciedo/Allen and Getz/Lillibridge, but that's the bottom 3 of your line-up.

No need to trade for Figgins when they can sign Orlando Hudson more cheaply (and without giving up Konerko/Dye)...and be even better. The only consideration is the draft pick, and we might not even get anything out of Cabrera (article today speculates he could wait until mid-season to sign)...but bringing in Viciedo and Danks was pretty much like having two first/second rounders along with Beckham. They can also do a Porcello and chase after an "unsignable" non-Boras client late in the first or in later rounds. If we did sign Hudson, the draft picks available at that spot aren't close to being sure things anyway. And there's no reason we can't pull a Detroit and throw a ton of money at a high upside pitcher in later rounds...because we'll free up all that money in 2010/2011.

Some have Dunn ONLY getting $5 million. Anything is possible...Wigginton got desperate and signed recently, coming off a good season. What I would love to see: 1) Trade Dye for young pitching (Angels/Reds, etc.) 2) Sign Abreu for two years at $15-18 million (convince him that lower money for this year will allow them to sign O-Dog) 3) Sign Orlando Hudson for one year at around $5 million and stick him in CF as the leadoff hitter. Or start him at 2B and play Lillibridge/Anderson in CF as the 9th place hitter. Dump Owens/Wise from everyday line-up consideration. (This also allows Beckham to make an impact in 2010 at either SS but more likely 2B). This allows the White Sox to stay payroll neutral, address CF/leadoff, add two quality veterans AND a young starting pitcher with upside like Bailey or Adenhart with no pressure for them to produce in 2009.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ak27...o&type=lgns Just thought I'd repost this Viciedo article for those who didn't see it the first time...

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 02:25 PM) I'm gonna watch the Last King of Scotland tomorrow. Can't wait. F. Whitaker is one of the most underappreciated actors of his generation, maybe because of his weight/color and the fact that he's not an attention seeker. (I would add J. Wright, Felix Lyter in the 2 new Bond movies to that list as well). And McAvoy has done some really impressive work in Atonement, this movie was really good....even big budget Wanted with Jolie.

Viciedo's situation is more interesting because of his age, and the fact that many don't expect him to contribute much in 2009. That's a pretty risky investment to make...because there's always the possibility he does pan out and the White Sox groom him and really blossoms in 2011 or 2012 and then a really big budget team scoops him up when he's only 23. That just doesn't happen in baseball, a player like Miguel Cabrera essentially become a FA at that age. Maybe 25-26, but not 23. Drafting college/high school players, you know you'll get at least 6 years out a David Price or Joe Mauer (or maybe 7 with an extension covering the arbitration years and first year of Free Agency). One can only hope that he's happy with Ozzie and the Sox and rewards their loyalty like Dye, Buehrle and Konerko did. OTOH, if Alexei Ramirez has three more seasons like 2008 without ANY talk of a contract extension or tearing up his deal, then I think he would definitely be justified in taking the money elsewhere. I know that $4 million plus should make him set for life, even after taxes, but he's one of the best relative values in baseball, along with Quentin and Danks.

QUOTE (False Alarm @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 04:24 PM) goldstein is not a numbers guy. yes, he works for BP, but if you read his stuff and his chats, he pays little attention to BP's advanced metrics. these rankings are his, and he weighs scouting reports, discussions with scouts, and his own observations quite a bit more heavily than statistics. he was recruited to BP from BA and is kinda the anti-BP in some ways. i guarantee you he's not running any complex formulas or algorithms or anything like that. incidentally, nate silver has done a PECOTA-based projection of prospects for BP the last few years that might be more along the lines of what you're thinking balta. was always kinda interesting to compare em with goldstein's more scouting-based lists. doubt silver'll write those articles this year, though, since he's pretty much abandoned writing about baseball. as for viciedo, it's reasonable to rank him. college draftees who haven't played an inning of pro ball (eg, pedro alvarez) get ranked all the time on these types of lists. i don't really see how viciedo's case is so different. however, i can understand how people'd have doubts about him too. i consider him our #2 prospect, but cuban prospects've been so tough to evaluate over the years that i can't blame someone for putting allen ahead of him. Back to Viciedo. He received, essentially, a signing bonus bigger than anyone under 21 years old in the history of baseball. Many scouts have said he's a Top 5-10 hitter in ALL OF THE MINORS just based on his hitting ability ("major league ready") alone. He's right now listed as a 3B, which is a more premium position than 1B/LF/DH...or as a a RF, because of his plus arm. So the main negative that any scouting report from his workout details was his being a bit out of shape...which has NEVER happened with a 19 year old before? And it's not like he's a pretty big guy who can be projected at that age to fill out and turn that into muscle, or should he be LeBron James already? That he is listed as a 3 star or outside the top 100 prospects list is a joke. Maybe, just maybe, if everyone wasn't so wrong about Alexei Ramirez, who fared even worse in projections coming into last year, I would give it more serious consideration. But scouts all said he was going to be like Ramon Santiago/Miguel Cairo, some AAAA filler or 25th man type. It turned out he had the quickest bat on the team (Stone noticed this right away) and maybe in the entire AL. How can so many miss that? I mean, the kid's a stick and he almost has Soriano's pop and he can run nearly as well, too. If he was with the Yankees/Mets/Cubs, he would be the most hyped prospect in baseball, just like Juan Uribe's catch would have eclipsed anything Jeter did in the playoffs, even that shovel pass to nail Giambi at the plate, IMO.

I'd just like to see evidence that Anderson is maturing as a player (I won't get into off-field antics or attitude/cockiness for now). Sometimes, I think BA's evil twin William Katt (Greatest American Hero) would have a better chance of scoring with Shannon Tweed in a Skinemax Friday night movie than BA does with the curveball or offspeed stuff off the plate. Maybe you can blame Greg Walker (whatever), but I would like to see some baseball smarts....at least occasionally. The ability to hit to the opposite side and not get pull happy (Rowand fell into this, too). Being able to bunt and give yourself up. Considering he'd probably be the 9th place hitter, the ability to really bear down (like Uribe) and get RBI's when they are most needed. Hitting the cut-off man and throwing to the right bases. While he's a gifted defender, he makes lots of mistakes mentally in terms of fundamentals, and that just drives me crazy. His baserunning could also be better, although he's getting better in that area, and he's one of our few runners that you can count on with his long strides to get the extra base (1B to home on double, 1st to 3rd on single, 2nd to home on single, etc.)

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 11:27 AM) I am slowly and painfully real;izing the Sox trade away or allow to walk via free agency players that are ready to make money and start over again. Well, you can go along with that idea in the case of Durham, Ordonez and Lee. Before that, Robin Ventura or Alex Fernandez. More recently, you could add Rowand and Crede (not so much, the back and Boras were too problematic, plus we have depth there now). But they kept Frank Thomas long-term...as well as Buehrle. And was anyone HORRIBLY upset when we left Ordonez go...I mean, he made $14.5 million in 2004 and was coming off a couple of major injuries that led many to believe he might never be the same, plus he was having medical procedures in Switzerland, it was crazy to think the White Sox would offer a deal like the Tigers (to their credit, although they might have been bidding against themselves) did in the end. I guess for this generation of Sox fans, the only name that really HURT to lose was Ventura, because he was such a fan favorite and all-around good guy. It's really what all MLB franchises, with a few exceptions (like the Yankees/Red Sox/Cubs/Dodgers/Angels/Mets) have to do these days. Maximize the value of players in years 1-4, and then get the best possible return. I think Jenks, with his many risk factors, will also fall into this camp. You have to also keep in mind they've kept Konerko, Dye and Thome around as the "core" of the line-up. You can take issue with letting Chris Young go (if KW had a choice) instead of Anderson to the D-Backs, but does anyone want to assume Aaron Rowand's contract right now? I don't think so.

Any rating for Viciedo at this point is VERY silly, at best. Flowers also seems to be getting the short end of the stick, compared to where he's normally at...which is 3rd or 4th, especially if he can stick as a catcher, he'd be #3 behind Wieters and Posey probably in MLB if he has another season like last year (plus the AFL.) I also don't see how Lillibridge can be completely out of the picture (well, "sleeper") after one injury-riddled season.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) The wife and I saw Revolutionary Road on Friday. It was basically 2.5 hours of why marriage is bad, and the rumors that Winslet gets nekkid were unfounded. There really was no purpose to watch this movie. I didn't hate it, but I didn't feel like I'd been to see a movie afterwards. Also, I can see why the performances of the main characters did not warrant nomination. A lot of the arguments really seemed forced and contrived. The only guy nominated (supporting actor, crazy guy) had like 10 minutes of screen time. Meh. Stick with The Reader and Titanic, lol. Or just watch Marisa Tomei in The Wrestler.

What was the deal with the new Transformers preview/trailer? Does anyone know anything about the plot/synopsis? I wonder when they will start showing AVATAR previews?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 08:38 AM) This kid is my sleeper for the CF job. He would be a perfect fit if he could approach his pre 2008 numbers. He gives you more of the little things (I hate to say scrappy/grindy) that you won't get from an Anderson...maybe like Iguchi with more ability but less refined at this stage of his career. I don't buy KW's comment about BA hitting .275 with 25 homers. If he played everyday, he'd be hard-pressed to hit .240, going against the best righthanders in the game, day in and day out. Of course, his defenders will argue that consistent playing time would fix all the holes in his swing...that his approach would improve and he wouldn't miss every single slider or curveball low and away. Well...the reverse argument is true too, getting the most favorable match-ups available in most games, he didn't even challenge hitting .250 for the season. Anderson's a very good defensive player, sure, but the holes in his offensive game can be more than overcompensated for by Lillibridge repeating anything close to his minor league norms prior to 2008. Of course, someone will cite BA's norms in the minors and say why would we expect Getz/Nix/Lillibridge to hit as well as they did in the minors at the major league level?

I don't think you can argue that 2003, 2005 and 2008 were years that DIDN'T end up better than MOST predicated b4 the season, even though 2003 turned out disappointing in the end. I think our expectations got too jacked up in the middle of the 2003 season...thinking we MIGHT have had the best team in the AL for at least awhile. And then you're not considering 2000, which was a HUGE surprise to everyone (I know, not part of KW's regime exactly), but almost as big of a surprise as 2005 in many ways, maybe moreso. 2001 and 2006 stung coming off division championships and the World Series title, but 2001, we were decimated by injures and started 14-29 and struggled all season to get back to .500. 2002, 2004...we were probably around what was expected. 2007...once again, injuries decimated a team that most thought would be 5-10 games over .500, but had dramatically faded down the stretch in 2006 and also a team replacing some key parts from the championship team already. By this "disappointment" metric, though....every season in NY, Boston or on the Northside without a World Series title is a major disappointment. That's a pretty high barrier/standard for the White Sox to live up to, if you consider where this team was for large parts of the past 50 years.

Indications are that prized left-hander Aaron Poreda has an excellent shot at making the Opening Day roster, even if he doesn't beat out Clayton Richard or Jeff Marquez for the fifth starter's spot. Guillen said his son Oney raved about Poreda when they played together in the minor leagues. Poreda also struck out five in three innings, including a called third strike on Colorado's Todd Helton, in a 'B' game last March. "Pretty soon he'll be in the big leagues, and you will enjoy the way this kid pitches," Guillen said. "He's got great stuff. Whoever scouted this guy should be proud." www.chicagotribune.com/sports

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?i...ce=MLBHeadlines Article that says the White Sox are done with FA's for this offseason. The most interesting thing was hinting that DeWayne Wise was the favorite for CF, but I haven't seen that reported ANYWHERE else. I guess in that scenario, Wise would be batting 9th? If Lillibridge or Getz are legitimately targeted to hit leadoff, you'd have to think that Anderson behind Fields as the 9th place hitter would make the most sense. But it seems more like they would prefer Owens to hit first against righties and Lillibridge against lefties.