caulfield12

Derek Lowe, $60 million for four years with the Braves, who've also added the Japanese veteran and Vazquez this off-season. So much for Lowe getting "ONLY" $42 million for 3 years. But somehow Dunn thinks he's getting $56 million for 4 years....with only 2-3 even interested in him a this point? Good lucky there, buddy. Kawakami for $24 million to the Braves. Craig Monroe signs a minor league deal. (Remember when he destroyed the White Sox through the '06 season?) Guillermo Mota returns to the Dodgers. Alex Cora to the Mets Prior and Chris Burke to the Padres (there was a day that would have raised some excitement in baseball circles...even two years ago) DAMMIT KW!!!! How could you let him get away!?! Russ Ortiz to the Astros.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 13, 2009 -> 08:14 AM) I would LOVE to see a source on that one... Anyways a couple of thoughts. I saw Chone made just under $5 million last year, but it doesn't look like he is signed for 09. What kind of salary is he looking at for 2009? If we are talking about something around that same $5 to $6 million he made before, I really could see a one for one deal happening (maybe stray minor leaguers of the 3rd tier, high ceiling, low achievement kind mixed in). If he ends up closer to the $10 million that lead off hitters like Juan Pierre and Gary Mathews Jr have gotten in recent years, I imagine we would either have to work out something where Anaheim either takes some salary from us (like maybe Mike Mac) or gives us cash back in the deal, so we can make the rumored Abreu deal. Chone Figgins is one of those Super 2 guys that will be a Free Agent after the 2009 season. I would guess he would get something in the vicinity of $6-7 million next season, just a guess. I'm assuming this year's contract will have to go to arbitration....as he had been working on a three year contract that extended through 2008. http://www.halosheaven.com/2008/6/22/55670...ns-angels-lifer

QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 05:07 AM) They're promoting it as the Sox - who went wire to wire, winning 99 games and blew through the playoffs - are the underdogs to the "powerful" Astros - who just happened to barely win the wild card with 89 games. HOU - .256 161 HR 654 RBI CWS - .262 200 HR 713 RBI yeah... Are mods allowed to have...what the heck is that, the Wonder Girls from Korea (???) animations in their profiles? What is the world coming to? Speaking of "Sox Pride," is there a Girls of Sox Pride calendar coming soon? Wow...I'm not sure what that girl is (maybe Asian) but she's a candidate to be the next "Kissing Bandit."

Are you sure you haven't been using some of LaMarr's cocaine, lol? In the last couple of days, we've had Uribe and Dye sex stories. What a strange off-season. I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised by anything about professional athletes, we've all heard the stories about Alex Rodriguez and his many Scores babes...most players have groupies in every city. Just the first time I heard something like that about JD. Working for two years around a minor league team, I guess "Hooters" was more of a normal "manly" environment for the players, writers, umpires and coaching staff than strip joints, although I'm sure there was a little of that, too. By the way. Jon Danks was a first-round draft choice as was Garland, and Freddy Garcia was one of the most highly-sought pitchers in the game when he was pitching for the Astros at the beginning of his career. None of those guys were "made" by AJ, not at all. Garland was with the White Sox for five seasons b4 AJ even arrived on the scene. Danks' success has more to do with Cooper and Buehrle than AJ...or maybe it's 50/50, to be charitable. Garcia's career had been on a downward slant ever since he was overworked the first 4-5 seasons of his career with M's, when he was one of the hardest throwing righties in the game...consistently 93-96 MPH on most days, sometimes a tick better.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 10:48 PM) You mean like the 22-year old "bust" that is Homer Bailey? Alpha's got a point. Everybody b****es and moans yet can't come up with anything better. Everybody hates Jerry Owens. Fine. Chone Figgins? Nope. Not good enough. Willy Taveras when he was available? Nope. He can't hit HRs. He sucks. Bobby Abreu? Nope. His defense sucks. Not good enough. When will people realize that Grady Sizemore types ARE NOT AVAILABLE?! Either be content with Jerry Owens or find another damn team to root for. Of course, we're not getting Sizemore, Pujols, Hanley Ramirez...even Manny Ramirez. The point is that everyone believes the White Sox, based on their "large market" status, their defending the AL Central championship, their forcing the season ticket holders to "take it or leave it" with the remainders of their deposit money for 2008 playoff tickets...at a time when many of the playoff teams were either keeping prices steady or actually lowering some (like the Rays)...all that adds up to concern and fear of a repeat of 2007. There's the sense we were lucky or fortunate to make the playoffs in 2008 and that our current team is closer to the 2007 version than the 2005/06/08 ones. Trading Konerko for Figgins makes a LOT more sense than trading Dye for Figgins. It would be much easier to replace Konerko than Dye on our team, as currently constituted...or going out into the FA market. That way, there would be a more even balancing of risk for both the White Sox and Angels, who, as one of the truly few large market teams, could take more of a risk than 80-85% of the teams out there on Paulie's deal. Frankly, I don't want them to trade either Konerko or Dye for Figgins, simply because I think there are better options out there...and yes, I would rather have tried to sign Taveras, but once, again, I would have stopped before getting into the $5-6 million range and 2 years. Whether KW was ever part of the negotiations, we might never know. We do know that he believes either Owens or Lillibridge or Getz would be better options for close to the league minimum. Yes, Taveras would arguably be better than those three, but not when you add current economic realities into the equation.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 07:25 PM) If you save that money, you're more likely looking at guys like Odalis Perez. The Sox won't sign Sheets, Lowe, or Perez, and Dunn makes no sense for the Sox. I saw a discussion thread somewhere that was pretty convincing...that actually was arguing that Odalis Perez was better last season than Oliver Perez. Yet Oliver Perez will get $8-10 million from the Mets and Odalis MIGHT sign a Redding-like deal somewhere before ST.

I wouldn't put Wolf in that group with the likes of Pedro and Freddy Garcia. Wolf will probably end up in the $6-9 million range coming off the way he pitched in the second half last year. No thanks at that price, at least from the White Sox perspective. If Lowe goes to the Braves, that basically forces Oliver Perez (not too many teams are interested in giving him $10 million+) back to the Mets. That basically leaves Garland, Wolf and Pettitte, along with Sheets, as the closest things to "sure bets" of what's left out there on the market pitching-wise. By the way, jimmywins, an outfield of Figgins and Anderson doesn't thrill me very much. Although stranger things have happened, it wouldn't be one of the most likely combinations I would envisage at this point in the offseason, will all the bargains still out there.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 11:55 AM) My opinion on virtually everyone out there right now is this. We keep hearing we're bumping right up against the budget, or perhaps even are already over budget given the sudden constraints imposed by the economic collapse. If that is the case, then if we are going to spend any additional money, given our current roster, it makes more sense to spend those scraps of money trying to add a cheap starting pitcher, perhaps coming off of an injury (i.e. Garcia-level) to potentially eat up some innings in our rotation than it does to try to scrape together the funds to sign or trade for an expensive player to fill any position. On the other hand, if we can clear some salary, i.e. by moving a guy like Konerko or Dye, and in the process get back additional pitching or money or both, then we ought to be all for this kind of move. But adding in anyone right now other than help for the rotation, if we're at our budget, isn't the best way to go. Over at WSI, there's an interesting debate going on about season ticket holders being held hostage...and the predicted dip in revenues for many MLB organizations. Right now, we're supposedly heading towards a $96 million payroll. I haven't seen the latest update...I think you have to take off $7-8 million for Thome, but then you give that all back and more for adding Viciedo (cancelling Swisher) and Jenks' increase in arbitration to around $5 million. Concessions are definitely likely to decline (apparently, they missed their targets already in '08)...that's one area that will really be pinched, as more and more families "brown bag" or eat on the way to the game at local fast food places. Then you have the luxury suites being pinched a little (or a lot), with corporations cutting back wherever they can, especially sports marketing. Families certainly won't be spending as much of their discretionary income on souvenirs, jerseys, hats, etc. Possible declining ad rates and revenues from WGN and/or cable. Less in parking money. The fact is that we've lost about 500,000 in attendance from '06 through '08, and there's a huge fear about walk-up being decreased. We know that the White Sox never seem to draw well in April and May...it's something of a "perfect storm" that we are heading into by heading into the season with the team as constructed. It's a huge risk for KW...maybe his biggest bet yet. It wouldn't have been possible had we missed the playoffs last year, fwiw. It's all predicated on getting results from Flowers, Viciedo, Beckham and Poreda (3 of the 4), along with maybe Allen and Richard. Can we stay competitive for the first 2-3 months of the season without going into 2007's tailspin? Can the older "foundation" players like Konerko, Dye, Thome and AJ stay healthy one more season? KW has a couple of things on his side. Detroit really is no position to fight back in terms of adding talent or payroll. They're already overextended, and have huge messes on their hands with Sheffield and Willis. We can thank our lucky stars they shed Maybin and Jurrgens, and maybe Andrew Miller will become a pitcher someday. But they still have Porcello lurking as a threat. And the Edwin Jackson move looks pretty smart. With the other teams, Minnesota and KC are not improved. Arguably, the Indians are the most improved, with Wood and DeRosa, and who knows what they'll get out of Pavano. But still a number of question marks, just like we have, particularly Travis Hafner. Their OF depth has been hit, too. I think they made a mistake in dealing Franklin Gutierrez. Choo is good as a platoon player. So you have "Midwestern" franchises already feeling the hard hit of the economy, particularly DET. The White Sox have the competitive advantage there and can wait back/lurk and do what the Red Sox have been doing recently....adding players like Kotsay, Baldelli, Smoltz, Saito and Penny. All more or less "high reward/low risk" signings with their payroll. The White Sox can do the same thing, with maybe 2-3 veterans like that, particularly a pitcher or two. In the meantime, KW has to determine.... 1) Whether Alexei can play SS 2) Whether Fields can play 3B 3) Who can play 2B (Getz or Lillibridge, maybe Nix)? 4) Where is the best destination for Beckham and Viciedo 5) Whether Anderson or Owens can give us anything and/or bring us something back in return 6) What we actually have in Marquez, Richard, Poreda, Egbert, DJ Carasco, etc. KW has 2-3 months to hold the ship together with duct tape and baling wire...and hopefully not end up like the Indians last year or Sox in 2007, so far out of the race that there's no recovery...declining walk-up attendance..."death watch" articles on trading Thome, Dye, Konerko, AJ and Buerhle (sound familiar to 07?)...and these Kids Can Play Ver. 3 or 4. Hopefully they can stay afloat and use their big market leverage to extract veteran pieces from other teams and/or making trades strategically with some of their spare parts in the minor league system, as they've done so well in the past (like the Quentin move, for example).

QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 06:23 PM) I'd do Figgins + a pitcher for Dye, he obviously doesn't have a ton of value, and Figgins would fill more of a team need than Dye. The problem is that they're not going to give us Saunders, Santana or Weaver AND Figgins for Dye. They're not even going to give us Adenhart and Figgins for Dye. Why would they do so, if they could go out and sign Bob Abreu for 2 years and $20 million? They would solve their problems for two years instead of one (unlike with Dye, who could walk after 2009, as Garland has done), and they wouldn't have to give up two key members of their depth chart. How does Figgins fill more of a team need than Dye? Playing at USCF, speed is less important than power. Yes, we need a leadoff man, but not at the cost of Dye...and the thing everyone's forgetting about is, yeah, he's versatile. But he's not GOOD versatile, his defense is borderline atrocious no matter where you put him. The only place the White Sox SHOULD play him would be CF, but that's iffy at best. Imagine Figgins at 3B, Ramirez at SS and Getz/Lillibridge at 2B. That's a pretty scary infield, although Getz/Lillibridge should be okay at 2B, and we don't know exactly what will happen with Alexei over a full season, just assumptions. If Beckham's a 3B, then Figgins has to displace Getz/Lillibridge or play CF. However, do you really want Figgins/Ramirez as your DP combination? Then there's the whole issue of age, injuries and declining base stealing ability. Figgins has never been a power hitter, or close to it, so having Figgins in the line-up forces you to get even more production from other positions. Who's going to make up for that lack of power in the middle of the line-up? The other main concern is that players like Fields, Owens and Anderson aren't worth much at all to other organizations...there's a good chance that one of those three could turn out to be a player, and they alone might be enough to get a player like Figgins (particularly Fields) somewhere down the line...or Getz/Lillibridge, for example. But they won't establish that value in trade unless KW gives them a chance to prove what they can do at the major league level first. If they could get a legit 4-5 starter (with the payroll decrease and/or trade) and have Figgins, it would make a lot more sense. But nothing has shown that KW is willing to spend money even on a Braden Looper at this point. It's not like any of us are holding out hope for Sheets, Pettitte, Garland, Perez, Wolf, Lowe, etc.

The most recent guess on Abreu is 2 years and $20 million...a bit more than Burrell, who will be a full-time DH in TB unless Crawford is injured yet again.

On one of the message boards, they have Abreu going to the Reds. I guess that makes sense, in that he would cost less than Dye, and they could also now affordably sign him to a 2 year deal....who knows, though? Some have Dunn and Hudson (who we've heard very little about all offseason) going to Washington. Then there's some idiot who is convinced KW is going to bring back Ray Durham about 5 years past his "sell by" date to start at 2B for us.

Yes, but you're extending that contract until age 38 or 39 when he's already shown signs of decline over the last three years...which is perfectly normal in the newly-discovered reality baseball world where players peak between 27-30 and decline in their 30's.

First, he will cost the White Sox $16-20 million over 2 years, a little less than we're paying JD for this season. Second, he could play CF only if the competition for that position was Brian Daubach, Rob Mackowiak and Rob Deer with his legs tied together with Greedy in the three-legged sack race. Third, someone else (Dye, Konerko) would have to go probably to make way for his salary. Fourth, he's declining in production and is far from a power hitter...so you're paying for his OBP, hitting from the LH side and pretty decent speed. Pat Burrell, so far, is one of the best relative values in the market today. If the White Sox could get Abreu for $16-18 million and two years, that would be very similar, because just as the Rays needed RH power desperately, and White Sox need a LH, high OBP hitter with above average speed. Unfortunately, his days as an above average defender are well behind him now.

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/11...t-and-the-dunn/ Blog on the tastes of some fans for "grindy" Bloomquist types and others favoring high OBP/predictable stat machines like Dunn or JD Drew. I think this article is a good mirror into the psyche of many posters here. Of course, our biggest rival is the Twins, the grinder's club if there was one (although becoming less and less)...and we've been the opposite for most of this decade offensively.

Thank God we don't have to face Sabathia so much every year. I think we've only beaten him once in his career or something crazy like that. Every time Buehrle was slated to face him head-to-head, a loss was almost a near certainty. I know one game CC was knocked out very early or injured, can't remember off the top of my head the exact circumstances. The Tigers are a lot different without Kenny Rogers, Willis and Bonderman...even if you add in Edwin Jackson, who I forgot to mention in my last post. However, if Willis ever gets it back together completely (not likely at this point, at least not in the AL), they would be extremely dangerous with that offense, as long as it remains relatively healthy. You just wonder if Leyland might not jump ship again if he feels 2009 is starting out like 2008 left off?

QUOTE (Cubano @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 07:28 PM) I doubt their papers will be ready b4 Spring Training. I doubt their papers will be ready b4 the season starts unless some money is handed behind the scenes. Marti should be Plan B getting into form in the minors if somebody does not do the job or gets injured. The Department of Homeland Security and Department of State don't work like that, UNFORTUNATELY. My wife is from Russia (we're separated) and she's still in the US waiting for her Adjustment of Status to be decided upon and it has been over 5 years since she came to the United States and 5 1/2 years since we got married. Nothing happens quickly with the US Government doing background/name checks at Dept. of State since 9/11. Granted, this is a different type of visa (than a spouse visa), but it's still not going to be moved along by bribery.

Michael Young OBP in away/road games over the last three years=.338 Michael Young OPS in away/road games over the least three years=.730 .317/.681 (OBP/OPS) in away games for 2008 Why in God's name would you pay $15-16 million per season for a guy putting up those numbers and STARTING the season at age 32 1/2? That contract is a death sentence for the White Sox to have any type of financial flexibility moving forward in the future in the future. The Cubs and Yankees can assume that type of risk (we've gotten away with long-term deals for Konerko and Thome so far...not so much with Contreras), we can't. At least not now. If we're going to spend that kind of money, we might as well give it to Manny Ramirez for 2 years and $30-40 million. Then you can trade Dye. There's other ways to get leadoff hitters other than spending that money on Michael Young OR Willy Taveras. The Rangers would want Fields after bringing back Blalock and having Chris Davis at 1B? Doesn't make sense. And, if we trade Fields, who is going to play 3B? Betemit? Viciedo?

Yes, but what kind of rotations are the Tigers and Indians going to throw out there? Bonderman's health is a huge question mark, Willis is even more of a ?, and Robertson was atrocious last year. Sure you have the likes of Zach Miner, but he's nothing special. You have Verlander, who has never looked quite as good as his rookie season and has piled up huge pitch counts already, and Galarraga, who was very solid, but who Tigers fans would have the same concerns with him we have with Danks and Floyd. With the Indians....Carmona was very erratic last year, and you know Lee can't possibly put up the same numbers, can he? Well, if he can, then so can Danks. That leaves a laundry list of questions. Pavano? Reyes? Lewis? Westbrook will be out until mid-season, roughly, just like Contreras. Then you have the collection of so-so garbageness that is Zach Jackson, Laffey and Sowers.

Marti is supposed to be a lot like El Duque and less like Contreras. Lots of off-speed stuff, changes of pace and different looks/arm angles...doesn't throw much harder than 87-89 MPH with his fastball, which is why most aren't counting him or the Braves' new Japanese starter as anything more than 4/5, back of the rotation, types. But, like Freddy Garcia, he's noted as a "big game" pitcher and the type of guy you want out there on the mound in the most important games of the season...so the anti-Javy. Nothing like Javy's stuff, but cojones galore.

I can't remember what Cubano said at one point about Gomez...basically he's getting to the point where his speed isn't as much a factor in the post-steroids/HGH era, he's something of a slap/contact hitter who won't give you a very high OBP (due to lack of walks) or much more than a .650-700 OPS. Basically, we already have two of those players in Owens and Lillibridge already...who are younger, especially Lillibridge.

If you look at his history over the last decade, he has played on a lot of winning/playoff caliber ballclubs. I don't think it's a COMPLETE coincidence. OTOH, he's never really found a long-term home, either.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 05:58 PM) Just 3 starters ( no Javy and no Contreras) with Carrasco and Richard having the most ML experience yea if that happens along with the current roster dwellers manning other positions it's 100 losses. Now I don't expect the current roster to be exactly the same to start the season but its getting kind of scary and I know I'm not the only Sox fan holding his breathe right now. You're forgetting we are in the AL Central and that we still face the NL in interleague play...we're not in the AL East, fortunately. Imagine being a Blue Jays or Orioles fan heading into this season? Not much fun. As of right now, we're looking at 70-82 wins and 80-92 losses. Somewhere in that range. I can't see us as anything better than a .500 club with three new starters, including a very questionable leadoff hitter, some uncertainty surrounding Linebrink being as good as he was in 2008 (first four months) and all the holes in our starting rotation. But 100 losses? I don't think so. Players like Getz and Lillibridge will probably end up giving the White Sox more of a boost than you give them credit for, and Viciedo and Beckham can have a huge impact as well in the 2nd half of the season to give us a "second wind," not to mention Contreras. I think the bigger concern would be injuries/aging across the board with Dye, Konerko, Thome and AJ...those four, in particular. Granted, the Twins weren't expected to contend at all coming into last season and hung in there all season, but their pitching possibilities looked more hopeful than ours at the back end of the rotation.

Marti would definitely be in the mix for the 4th/5th starter's spot. Even though he won't blow anyone away, he definitely would be the favorite I think if the White Sox were to sign him as of today. As far as Gomez, don't think we'd have much interest in him at all...the other kid Torres had earlier, CF Fernando Perez (who worked out with Viciedo at his famous tryout in the DR) would be a much more interesting sign than Gomez, fwiw, because he's still only 20.

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 11:14 AM) I didn't say that I wasn't crazy! It is easier to defend Blagojevich's matching track suits, than it is baseball conspiracy theories. I also forgot to to mention that it is good to hear the people of South Dakota haven't been effected as much by the economic crisis. In all honestly, I just was trying to make an amusing post reflecting the economic crisis baseball apparently has fallen into. I find it hard to believe that the owners are in worse shape than the auto industry (who it appears also overpaid its workers to a degree that will not longer lallow them be profitable). My thesis in college was a Walmart bashing, business ethics, ass whooping opus. Now a few years later I am kind of wondering if we should be happy that Wally World paid their employees what they could afford to give them, while still remaining an economic force? Maybe we need to stop wanting big business to play UNICEF, and let them keep the USA on top of the world. I'd bet we'd all be better for it. Before you think I am turning this into a political rant, let me say that I think this offseason might just be the MLB owners getting their employees in check so they make sure they are stil a growing, economic force. Some interesting stuff out there today, from comparisons in today's Wall Street Journal to "Atlas Shrugged" happening in reality....to suggestions that the US should just let virtually every company and individual go bankrupt and not bail them out, essentially starting over with the clean slate (Sect. Mellon's idea in the 20's or 30's), which would be a form of bailout! (letting every individual off the hook for their debts and houses that worth a lot less than they owe, I'm sure many would love that idea) and starting overly completely with ZERO debt, as debt was not the big, prevailing issue in 1929 it is today. Although I'm not sure that China and Japanese holders of American treasury notes would be a big fan of this idea.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 09:42 AM) Duque was a free agent...funny though that the Yankees actually traded him to the Sox intitially, and then the Sox dealt him to Montreal for Bartolo Colon. He later rejoined the Yankees and then signed with the Sox as mentioned previously. The Yankees dealt Contreras because it looked like, and quite frankly was, a terrible contract. He was a long reliever for them, and they dealt him for a different long reliever who was signed for cheaper and fewer years. I can't blame them for it. If you're going to use Marte, you can't suddenly forget about Javy Vazquez. I don't look too much into players that have been traded outside of between teams. There are GMs that want players all the time, and something such as that is coincidental. Jimenez was merely an underrated player at the time who had potential who also had his share of problems, and Williams gave him a chance to capture a starting position on a weak Sox team at the time. The fact that he was cut so quickly gives you an idea as to how much Williams really liked him, especially considering how patient Williams has been with younger players in the past. Regarding Swisher, Cashman most likely felt that it was a good deal at the time, and Williams wanted to get rid of him while also reading the market well, and suddenly Swisher looks like a bad contract with no where to play in New York. Kudos to Williams on making a good deal, and Cashman doesn't care because he has the money to afford an expensive backup. When was the last time the Sox made a deal with the O's, Rays, Marlins, or Cardinals? Of those, the last I can think of is the Koch trade with the Marlins, and that was just as much of getting rid of him as it was getting anyone in return. The Sox generally make small trades with several teams and big trades with only a select few. I'm not too worried about it. Marlins...maybe Julio Ramirez for Jeff Abbott? Orioles would have to be Singleton for Willie Harris. Jimenez, in all fairness, suffered major injuries in a car crash....amazingly, I think he played almost a full season with the Reds later on in his brief career, but he was known as a clubhouse cancer while with the White Sox. There was a famous story/urban legend that Frank Thomas sat on him in the clubhouse one time and that the clubhouse really fell apart around that time with Clayton, Lofton, Lee and Jimenez the main culprits. So I think KW simply felt he wasn't worth the headaches because his potential was replaced by Willie Bloomquist-ness with more power but atrocious defense that would make Pete Incaviglia or Kevin Nursery Reimer look like a Gold Glover. In 2005, I just thought it was hilarious that Cashman had to sit back and watch both Contreras and El Duque not only lead the team to the World Series title, but also blow through the hated Red Sox along the way. Maybe he was smirking a little, though, when El Duque mopped up that inning for Marte and nailed the door shut on the Red Sox. I think the Yankees will end up trading Nady and keeping Swisher, as Nady is a FA after this season and appears to be generating more interest coming off a pretty strong season statistically for him. Contreras was mostly traded because he was completely melting down in head-to-head match-ups with the Red Sox, and showed no signs of turning the corner. In fact, things were getting cumulatively worse with each start, seemingly.