caulfield12

I don't think the White Sox have the luxury of having a player like Young on the roster going forward. It's ONE thing if he's an everyday player in the middle of your infield, it's quite another at that salary to be putting up a .750 OPS and sitting in the dugout like Thome. Much of Young's value comes from leadership on the field and "presence," whatever the heck that is. We have to keep in mind that Thome, despite his contract, is essentially making $9 million per season, not something in the mid teens. To put it into perspective, the best starting pitcher left on the market, Derek Lowe, will be hard-pressed to get to $15 million per season. Why would a declining middle infielder whose best future position is 2B be in our plans when we have about 5 players cheaply signed for that position? Michael Young OBP in away/road games over the last three years=.338 Michael Young OPS in away/road games over the least three years=.730 .317/.681 (OBP/OPS) in away games for 2008 .365/.769 (OBP/OPS) in away games for 2007 .332/.749 (OBP/OPS) in away games for 2006 The guy will be 32 1/2 on Opening Day and is one of many Soriano-esque candidates to be a huge/complete drag on his team at the end of his contract. Think Todd Helton with Young, and multiply by a factor of 5-10. The worst part is we're going into the season with a marginal pitching rotation (at this point), a rotation that just lost its best strikeout pitcher. Somehow the idea of Ramirez/Young and lots of balls being put into play (along with Fields to their right) doesn't sound like the smartest idea in the world. This move would be worse than signing Willie Bloomquist, because at least the damage to the franchise would be minimal and he'd be cleared relatively quickly from the payroll, unlike Young. Charitably, about the ONLY that that would make sense is the Rangers eating about 30-40% of contract and us giving them back Dye in return. Or the Rangers eating part of the contract and getting Poreda back in return. But never, in any Twilight Zone-ish way, could it be both Dye and Poreda.

You don't even have to look any farther than the remainder of Young's contract and the "global financial crisis" to know this trade was dead in the water, and before Poreda's name was even mentioned. Abreu for 2 years, $16-18 million seems much more doable, however.

We've taken a number of players from the Yankees under Cashman, including El Duque (former Yankee) and most impactfully (is that a word?) Contreras, which really was the one that probably stuck in Cashman's craw the most. Any others? D'Angelo Jimenez was once a top Yankees prospect. The Swisher deal, of course. Marte used to be in their system as well before going to Pittsburgh and being "discovered" by KW and the scouting department. Yeah, we haven't done many trades with the Blue Jays since the Sirotka/Wells fiasco, the only one off the top of my head is Eyre/Glover? Of course, Gord Ash is long gone as their GM. Probably someday in the future the Braves will take another Kinzer/Tellem client and the big old world (and wheel) will keep spinning around. By the way, is former Sox Asst. GM and Dodgers' GM Dan Evans now working as an agent? Maybe he's trying to go the Jeffrey Moorad route...the most interesting thing in the world would be if Boras tried to run a major league team (like the Pirates or Royals). PS My real hope was just to get "dickallen" worked up over this new wrinkle in the Cabrera/KW/arbritration/Type A situation....an added twist.

In theory, let's say the Marlins needed a shortstop (we know they don't) and wanted to sign Cabrera to a two-year, $16 million deal -- but they didn't want to give up their top draft pick to do it. They could, in theory, pick up the phone and ask the Yankees to sign Cabrera to what the Marlins wanted to pay; the Yankees would give up only a fourth-round pick, and the Marlins could trade a prospect to the Yankees to offset the value of the fourth-round pick. Cabrera would have to waive his right to block the trade because any free agent signing a multiyear deal cannot be traded until June. In short, Cabrera could get the contract he wanted, the Marlins could get the player they wanted and the Yankees could get a little extra value for their fourth-round pick. Everybody would win except the White Sox (who presumably would be apoplectic, because they are in line to get a first-round pick). Makes some sense, eh? Well, in talking with executives and lawyers in baseball this week, they said the powers that be probably would greatly frown upon this type of system manipulation. And as one executive said, the teams involved, even by discussing the matter, might be guilty of collusion, in a winter in which there are rumblings on the union side about collusion. We'll see whether it comes up. from buster olney blog, www.espn.com

Well, that's the latest rumor...the Twins don't trust his back, certainly not enough to give him guaranteed money, and that there are plenty of other concerns, namely playing half his games on turf. So the NL seems a better place for Joe to re-establish himself with some big offensive numbers if he's really healthy.

I really HOPE it's NOT Livan Hernandez. He's one of the main reasons we were able to beat the Twins last year, his presence instead of Liriano in the middle months of the season. Well, then again, there's always a possibility Cabrera and Crede will be the new left side of the Twins' infield. It would just be very strange to see, especially Joe, that's for sure.

Back to the pitching dregs...who do we have left to target for that veteran 4/5 type? Ben Sheets (still probably too expensive, even on a one year deal) Pedro Martinez (maybe) Jason Jennings (maybe) Oliver Perez (too expensive) D. Lowe (too expensive, probably will get $42 million over 3 years from Braves, who are cornering pitching market) Garland (maybe, if he falls all the way to $5-6 million) Randy Wolf (maybe, if he falls to $5-6 million) Freddy Garcia (has anyone seen any recent health updates? is he done in Winter Ball or not?) Braden Looper (maybe) Mark Mulder (worth a look by some team willing to gamble with incentive-laced deal?) Bartolo Colon (ditto) The Red Sox are making some very interesting moves....throwing lots of darts against the wall with Penny, Saito, Kotsay and Baldelli and hoping at least two of them stick. High reward, fairly low risk moves for a team with a huge budget. I don't know, but I think even if you add in Smoltz, you might have all five of those players for the same price as Tex, Burnett or CC over one season. They've definitely shifted from the JD Drew/Dice-K big price tag FA's and are looking at developing talent internally or on the cheap signings like KW and the White Sox have been famous for. A couple of head scratchers...the middle infielders like Punto, Miles and Felipe Lopez signing for relatively big numbers compared to the recent deals we've seen the past week or so. FWIW, Saito is coming off injury and can make up to $7 million with incentives. Redding was MEH...even most Mets' fans would rather have Pedro back and risk the upside rather than what Redding's 88 MPH "heater" will give them. Redding didn't even come close to getting a look with the White Sox a couple of years ago. Now we might be even borderline to have him in the organization as additional depth.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jan 10, 2009 -> 07:17 PM) Very happy Soxtalk is back. I was worried that some big KW move would go down and I'd miss out on our analysis. Anybody heard any good hot stove rumors? Just the nonsense about our somehow taking on the outrageous contract of Michael Young, blowing another hole in our OF by trading Dye, and then also being asked to include Poreda to boot! Some more Crede to Twins rumors...but SF seems the more likely destination at this point. Cabrera, who knows where he, Garland or Uribe will end up. Griffey back to M's in the sentimental move?

I was so desperate for any new White Sox information I had to go to the Evil Empire of WSI. There were so many annoying posts that I wanted to make a comment, then I finally realized I banned myself for life, lol...I didn't realize how suffocating and ridiculous that site could be until I started reading threads there again. The "pack" mentality of jumping on posters there who question anything (the infamous Dark Clouds, I think fathom might be our closest!) about KW or the Sox is so irritating.

But isn't that exactly what we're going? I guess you can equate Westbrook with Contreras coming back in the middle of the season, although the odds are better for Jake. You can stack up Lee/Carmona against Buehrle/Danks/Floyd. That leaves you with Marquez/Poreda/Richard/Broadway versus Pavano/Laffey/Sowers/Jackson/Lewis/Reyes. Reyes had past success in the majors, and Lewis was really impressive down the stretch. I don't think much of Jackson, Laffey or Sowers at this point, but they all have a lot more big league experience than the four White Sox pitchers at the end of the rotation (maybe some Egbert fans really want to throw him into the mix too).

Pat Burrell: Philanthropist? I’m not referring to the portion of Pat Burrell’s new two-year $16-million contract that will be going to the Rays Baseball Foundation. When I first read the headlines, I inadvertently believed the deal was worth $16 million per season, which is close to what I anticipated he would get. For two years, I have him valued at approximately $30 million. This contract is also considerably less than the $31.5 million that Burrell’s former Phillies will pay Raul Ibanez over the next three seasons. I can only guess what motivated Burrell to sign this contract. Here are a few potential explanations. The down economy has reduced revenue expectations, decreasing teams’ willingness to pay for free agents. There is a glut of free-agent outfielders on the market, forcing competition between players, and thus depressing salaries. Burrell wanted to take less to play in a comfortable environment that the Rays provide. I don’t think the economy explains much of the discount. The inferior-but-similar Ibanez received a far superior contract in the same market conditions. Ryan Dempster and A.J. Burnett both received big contracts that I believe exceed their expected values. Furthermore, I believe the potential damage to MLB from the recession has been exaggerated by management, who want to convince players to sign for less. Though baseball will suffer, I think the damage will not be that large and short-lived. I’ve been following the economic impact stories closely, and baseball—like other major sports—seems to be somewhat resistant to recessions. Fans love their sports teams, and following sports is a relatively cheap form of entertainment. In any event, the economic downturn cannot explain the magnitude of Burrell’s discount—a short-term deal for nearly half of his potential revenue generation. The second potential explanation is an argument that I see frequently in discussions of the free-agent market. However, the common intuition regarding the number of free agents on the market affecting the competitiveness of the market is wrong. The relative scarcity of talent doesn’t change when a player signs with a team or when there are many players on the market. For every free agent signing, there is one less buyer on the market, and for every free-agent player there is an additional open roster spot. Braves fans are well aware the available slots for outfielders. This leaves me with the final explanation: Burrell was willing to accept less to play in Tampa. If Burrell was a financial mercenary, I think that he would’ve waited longer to sign a deal like this. Burrell went to college in Florida, so maybe he likes it there. Playing in front of fans who boo you for your big salary even when you are a productive player has to be frustrating. In Tampa, if the team stinks the fans just don’t go to the game. He’s earned a total of $54 million over the course of his playing career, so he’s probably willing to sacrifice some additional wealth for comfort. We’ll soon see how the rest of the market shakes it. If other deals are vastly below expectations, then I think it’s a sign that the economy is having a dramatic effect on the players market.sabernomics.com Saw something about FLA having no state income tax, but that still doesn't account for a 44% pay cut differential.

http://soxmachine.com/blogs/soxmachine/arc...1/06/14828.aspx Column on what would have happened had Thome NOT reached 1100 plate appearances and had his option secured for 2009. Would the White Sox be better off without Thome and $9 million to spend in this market (roughly)?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 6, 2009 -> 03:04 PM) Indians sign Carl Pavano. With our luck, he'll have a Cal Eldred-ish (circa 2000 first half) breakout season. I don't know where the Indians are getting the money, but they've added DeRosa, Wood and now Pavano...and look like they could be entering 2009 as the favorites (along with Minnesota) to win the division. Of course, Wood and Pavano could also break down in the first week of April in the cold weather. so I suppose anything's possible. When Westbrook comes back, they'll have 9 starters in that organization (Lee, Carmona, Westbrook, Reyes, Lewis, Jackson, Sowers, Laffey, Pavano). It's definitely an area of concern going forward for the Sox. Only the back end of the Tigers' rotation is in as much disarray as the White Sox 4/5 spots currently of the five AL Central teams.

And lifetime concessions rights to Boog Powell's stand while they're at it. Maybe they're going to send us Markakis and Jones too! Nonsense.

You'll find it more interesting if nobody signs O-Cabrera I guess.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Jan 4, 2009 -> 02:24 PM) I guess slayer had a better ring to it than STD Ask Michael Vick.

35 is the new 40. I think this has to be something of a concern with Roberts as well, at least in the back of KW's mind. Maybe even Hudson. We're unlikely to see the players improving or sustaining career numbers well into their late 30's (like Bonds) or improving them. "Prime" years for any baseball player revert back to 26/27-29/30. Players just losing their skills pretty suddenly (like Roberto Alomar) will be more the norm again.

That's a 44% pay cut for Pat Burrell and for Giambi, get this... 77.6% pay cut $23,428,571 to $5.25 million Talk about cost of living decrease/deflation.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 6, 2009 -> 11:57 AM) Your first sentence says Swisher is drawing significant interest. Your last says the only player the White Sox traded that anyone wanted was Vazquez. It doesn't make much sense. Trading Swisher was a Exec of the Year move for KW. His contract, especially considering his performance is far from the bargain many thought it was less than a year ago. If any of the players acquired for him contribute to winning, its total gravy. Not my first sentence. From mlbtraderumors.com. I don't think that the interest is as much in Swisher as it is in Nady. I will be shocked if he is traded that the return comes close to what KW got, especially if Nunez or Marquez make a significant contribution this year. (I know we're counting on Marquez already, but Nunez is dark horse, like Santos (LHP) in the Vazquez deal). The Mets have Castillo (for now), and the Yankees have Cano...so unless one of those guys is traded, I think the market will challenge the O-Dog a bit too now...Cabrera/Eckstein will be struggling to find offers one would think. The weird part is the money that Punto and Felipe Lopez got, or that Adam Everett found a taker. Even Renteria.

Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady are drawing "significant interest." Rosenthal speculates that the Giants, Braves, or Pirates would make sense. Perhaps because of the cool market for his services, Orlando Cabrera is willing to play second base. The Yankees did not have interest. That Gavin Floyd for Brian Roberts rumor "seemingly arose from internal discussions among Orioles officials." from mlbtraderumors.com It will be very interesting to see if Swisher is traded again and I'm sure the package will be significantly less than what KW got from the Yankees the first time around...especially if the numbers that Giambi will eventually get from the A's are accurate, not to mention the Burrell deal. Dunn, Griffey, Jr., Garret Anderson and a couple of other guys are still out on the market, too. Anyone concerned that Cabrera hasn't found a taker yet? It would be ironic if his Type A compensation status ended up preventing another team from signing him...although Garland's Type B, so we wouldn't have gained anything by keeping him, either. Not to mention Uribe, Crede, Griffey and Garland have yet to find homes, among others. And then there's Cabrera, of course. The Yankees don't even seem to want or need Swisher, so the only player we lost that anyone really "coveted" was Vazquez.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2009 -> 08:23 AM) Or someone like Mark Hahn is doing the talking... Do you really think a deal of the magnitude that hasn't been able to be reached by Jim Hendry for 2-3 years is going to be pulled off without KW picking up the phone over the period of an entire month before it gets done? KW might trust his lieutenants, but he's never going to present a trade as "Rick Hahn's trade" in any way, shape or form. The buck stops with him, and I thin his ego's too big to delegate 100% to one of his deputies. He might have said, get an idea what Baltimore might want for Roberts...but he will be involved quickly enough if it's near time to close the deal and pull the trigger. That's his reputation, as a straight shooter you can get a deal done with, at least it has been for the last 2-3 seasons.

But bringing in Kent, Garciaparra, Pierre AND Jones was obviously the wrong direction...and held up the youngsters for a half season of development and almost ended with them missing the playoffs. Fortunately for Coletti, the overall talent was enough to come back and overcome that error, it didn't work out so well for the Twins to bring in veterans at the beginning of the season and to hold onto them for a bit too long (Lamb and Hernandez, in particular). Now one can argue that they might have been set backward by coming up and playing TOO early, but if a player's ready, he's usually ready, if that makes any sense.

I would much rather have him than Garland for $10 million per season. He's very unlikely to be with us...I think he prefers Texas or the East Coast. But then there's the 4-5 lefties problem again to rear its ugly head.

okay, acknowledged

I just don't think there's much to this at all but typical Internet rumors. Gonzales has confirmed KW hasn't spoken with the Orioles since November...unless KW lied (or is lying) to him. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2233078.story