caulfield12

If they can get Abreu for something like $15-18 million for two years (guaranteed) and an option for a 3rd, it's okay. The most athletically gifted (if healthy) of the possible FA LFers is probably Juan Rivera. Milton Bradley would have been up there before all of his various injuries. Maybe Hermida as well. I agree Dunn, Ibanez, Abreu and Burrell don't bring much to the club (or are actually detriments) defensively. Then again, we can't have Endy Chavez playing LF either.

from mlbtraderumors/dierkes Brandon Backe (fifth starter candidate?) Erik Bedard (likely be to tendered now) Matt Belisle Angel Berroa John Buck (back-up catching option) Chris Burke (we already have too many infielders...only if he could play CF) Daniel Cabrera (top prize?) Chris Capuano (fifth starter candidate, was once a very serviceable pitcher) Jason Davis Randy Flores Jason Frasor (was once a serviceable reliever) Chad Gaudin (another fifth starter candidate to throw into the mix) Jimmy Gobble (ditto) Jonny Gomes (better than BA?, probably not) Aaron Miles (see Berroa, Burke) Brian Tallet Willy Taveras (along with Cabrera, the most likely targets for KW)

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 12, 2008 -> 07:02 AM) I'd be very surprised if the Angels took Konerko. He's been in a 2 year rut, is making $12 million this year and next year. Why trade for a guy making big money who may be on the downside of his career? 1) Proven record of playoff success 2) Also proved he was healthy (finally) the last six weeks of the aeason and got his "normal" power back 3) Is a comparative bargain with TEX at $20 million PLUS 4) Has been targeted for years by Angels 5) Has rededicated himself this offseason to better training, conditioning and nutrition for the first time in his big league career 6) Good "buy lower" candidate...wouldn't have to give up as much in return 7) Two year contract not as scary as 3-7 year deals for certain big-name FA's

from cowley/suntimes.com CF - Jerry Owens SS - Alexei Ramirez - Although manager Ozzie Guillen didn't seem sure if Ramirez was ready to hit this high. LF - Carlos Quentin DH - Jim Thome 1B - Paul Konerko RF - Jermaine Dye C - A.J. Pierzynski 3B - Josh Fields 2B - Chris Getz Bench C - Corky Miller - Until Tyler Flowers takes his job in June. Plus, I just like saying Corky Miller. INF - Brent Lillibridge INF - Wilson Betemit OF - Brian Anderson Starting Rotation LHP - Mark Buehrle RHP - Gavin Floyd LHP - John Danks RHP - Jeff Marquez LHP - Clayton Richard Bullpen Closer - RHP Bobby Jenks RHP Scott Linebrink RHP Octavio Dotel LHP Matt Thornton RHP D.J. Carrasco LHP Aaron Poreda RHP Jhonny Nunez On the outside looking in: L. Nix, Viciedo, Cole Armstrong, Beckham, Jon Link, Lance Broadway, Jimenez (Blue Jays' castoff), Tyler Flowers, Mike MacDougal, Egbert, Wasserman, Adam Russell, Brandon Allen, Shelby, David Cook The Orioles have waited for years for pitcher Daniel Cabrera to develop into a consistent and reliable starter, but they now have less than 24 hours to decide if they are willing to wait one more year. The Orioles have until midnight Friday night to tender Cabrera a contract offer or allow him to become a free agent. According to one source, the club was leaning toward non-tendering the pitcher, but top team officials are mixed about the decision, largely because the club has so much uncertainty in its rotation. Cabrera, 27, made $2.85 million last season. If he goes to arbitration, he'll likely be paid about $4 million, a hefty price for a pitcher who has gone 17-28 the past two seasons and ended last year with concerns about the health of his pitching arm. MacPhail said that he has spoken to Cabrera's agent, Mike Powers, and he will do so again tomorrow leading up to the tender deadline. "I'm back and forth [on Cabrera]," MacPhail said. "I have not made a final decision."mlbtraderumors.com

Even without the OF prospect, Abreu + Bailey >>> Dye (largely because of the possibility JD will get hurt finally)

Not to mention the availabilty of Valverde and Wigginton due to apparent fisccal constraints imposed by Drayton McLane. Then there's also the crowd of former closers like Isringhausen, Cordero, Gagne, Brandon Lyon (also Type A, along with J. Cruz), etc.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2008 -> 01:20 AM) Why? I don't understand. Abreu consistently puts up .370+ OBP's and put up 5 straight seasons of .400+ OBP from 02 to 06. I'd have absolutely no problem with Abreu at all. Not if the money's right and we have a reasonable buyout and/or option, then it would be okay with me. Ozzie's call, along with KW and JR obviously.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Dec 12, 2008 -> 03:14 AM) How about PK and Jenks for Figgins and Weaver. Send Dye to Cincy for Bailey and etc. Sign Abreu to play RF Sign Burrell to play 1B. Played 3B in college. Figgins 2B Abreu RF CQ LF Burrell 1B Thome DH Alexei SS AJ C Fields 3B Anderson CF Two problems. I don't think the Angels would ever admit defeat and embarassment and go to the trouble of reacquiring Jenks...especially when Arredondo is prepped to be their new closer. While Konerko is a possibly if TEX gets away, I don't think Jenks is remotely close to their radar. Without Jenks as part of the deal, we'd probably have to take Figgins...as Weaver would be off the table due to his "bargain" status as a pitcher in years 1-6. If we really wanted to clear payroll, I guess it would be a decent move, but I really think Konerko's going to have a great 2009 and Figgins is aging/injury-prone/defensively-inept. I could live with it, but I think there are much better moves out there...especially if we are patient. We might even find a solution from one of the non-tendered players out there and not have to give up any talent in return.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 03:42 PM) I would love to have Weaver on the Sox. Let's just hope and pray it's NOT Jeff Weaver instead.

If you promised me that both Beckham, Poreda, Flowers and Viciedo would make at least ONE All-Star team during their careers with the White Sox, I'd be pretty happy and excited about the future. Three of four would still be great, and I'd even be okay with 2/4. Right now, everything feels so up in the air, which is certainly is...a "fluid" situation. However, we twist and turn the line-up around, it seems that we have a huge problem at the top or bottom of the order...no matter how you stack things up. Having Abreu in the 2 hole would look very nice for 2 seasons, and PERHAPS a third. By the way, has anyone ever found out factually that Viciedo's contract is five years instead of 4, or vice-versa? That, and I'm not sure where all this burgeoning love for Marquez has come from...

If the organization feels that it was injuries/confidence/coaching and not a stuff issue (like Floyd), they'll take on Bailey in a heartbeat. The potential is just too great to pass on...and Dye's stats can be reproduced without giving up talent by an Abreu, Dunn, Burrell type. Not to mention JD might get hurt finally this season.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Dec 12, 2008 -> 12:25 AM) I agree on Cleveland. I could see their rotation being the best in the division next year. I like Laffey and really like the pick-up of Anthony Reyes. Sowers has been a bust, Zach Jackson is so-so at best....it really comes down to Reyes and Lewis in the middle, and a bounce-back year from Carmona.

QUOTE (whitesox32 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 08:35 PM) if the tigers starters can get back to form they can be tough again too with verlander, bonderman, gallaraga, robertson, and the newly acquired edwin jackson. there are a lot of question marks there though. plus they don't have a closer and it doesn't look like they can afford one Bonderman's health/return is definitely in question, as is Robertson's being a productive pitcher. Then there's D. Willis, and Verlander's pitch counts over the last 2-3 seasons. I'll take Meche, Greinke, Bannister, Hochevar/Torres right now over any team in the division but MIN (and maybe over them even) based on potential.

QUOTE (MO2005 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 07:33 PM) This team definitely needs one or two starters! I was o.k. with trading Vazquez, but I have to admit it throws off our whole rotation. But if you look at out division, the only rotation that scares me a little is Cleveland. They still got Carmona, Westbrook back after injury, of course Lee, and now add Wood to their bullpen. Westbrook is supposed to be out until at least mid-season...has that changed?

Couch agrees with KW on "rebuilding" project...worth reading http://www.suntimes.com/sports/couch/13255...-greg11.article DeRosa to Twins as part of Peavy deal? A list of prospects would be given to the Cubs for the Padres approval before a deal would be made. DeRosa would likely play second in Minnesota, with young second baseman Alexi Casilla moving to short. DeRosa could also play third or the outfield for the Twins, who would use his versatility the same the Cubs have. Why is DeRosa being shopped after being such a valuable piece of a 97-win season? First of all, he's going to be a free agent after this season and figures to command a much larger contract than the three-year, $13 million deal he signed after the 2006 season. DeRosa was arguably the Cubs' biggest bargain last year at $4.75 million, and will make a relatively modest $5.5 million in '09. chicagotribune.com/sports

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:29 AM) Chris Carter's power has been compared to Ryan Howard's, though that's a bit extreme; it still paints a picture. That's who Williams gave up to get Quentin, and Quentin was coming off an injury plagued season as it was. Williams really isn't savvy per se, he merely goes out and gets the guys he wants and isn't afraid to pay the price to get it. It's been a while since I've seen Williams make a big trade and knew right off the top of my head the Sox were the winners, perhaps since the Bartolo Colon trade prior to 2003. of course, borchard was compared to McGwire and Mickey Mantle....and Adam Dunn, lol

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:26 AM) and they still have 4 other starters too. I'm not as high on Liriano as most, but he was dominant when he came up last year and they have a loaded rotation. As of this second, and I know a lot is going to change, the Twins are probably the favorites to win the division. I think you have to consider Perkins and Blackburn as question marks, and Slowey a combination of Maddux and Sonnanstine. Can he continue to pitch as well as he did with his stuff? We'll see. They certainly look stronger than the White Sox as of this instant. Then you consider Humber, Mulvey (from Mets) and I think one other AA/AAA starter who's drawing a lot of interesting at the Winter Meetings (think his names ends in a vowel)

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:24 AM) This is true. He faced CLE x2, KC x3, SEA x2, OAK x2, DET once and TB once. Out of his 11 2nd half starts, he struck out more than 5 only 4 times, and got raped once by KC and once by CLE when it mattered most. His best start was 7 innings vs TB where he gave up 1 run on 5 hits and struck out 7 but walked 4. I don't think the win against TB was when they were in the midst of their terrible slump...was it?

Yes, but look at who most of those starts were against... He somehow ended up missing almost all of the really good teams in the AL. I think his most impressive win was beating up the Indians when they were in one of their patented 2nd half hot streaks to look respectable. However, in the biggest start of his career, he was roughed up by the Royals, which was one of the most important losses of the season in tipping the division back in our direction. I'm yet to be convinced he's even close to the same pitcher. I think half his results were intimidation/name factor from 2006 and the fact that he was facing almost all "inferior" AL teams and not pitching against any contending teams....maybe once or twice in those 11 starts. He beat the Rays and a hot Indians team on the road. In his other nine starts, KC three times (including the crucial loss the final weekend), Detroit (dead team walking, was a good offense earlier before they phoned it in), Oakland twice and Seattle twice (and a second Indians' start). Those were arguably the three of the worst offenses (along with TOR) in the AL for most of last season.

Not the old Valentin/Clayton argument!!!!! Agreed, Valentin made a lot of errors on routine plays (just like Alexei Ramirez did this season, especially in the second half) but his range (whether measured by RF or your eyeballs) and his superior arm more than made up for it. I don't have the game by game tracker from 2000, but I think the majority of errors he gave up didn't result in unearned runs, certainly most of them didn't cost the team victories. Clayton, like Cabrera, made the routine plays more easily, but there were probably 50 balls that he either couldn't reach or his arm wasn't strong enough to get the out but which end up as outs with Valentin's arm and range. This argument could go on and on forever. KW, eventually gave in and dealt Myette for Clayton and tried the ill-fated Valentin in CF experiment, which ended up getting Jose injured. Clayton and Mark Johnson formed the worst bottom duo of any modern-day baseball line-up in history, making Taveras look like Pujols/Bonds.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:02 AM) Paul Konerko is more likely to hit a home run than he is to ground into a double play in that spot. Meanwhile, Carl Everett is more likely to ground into a double play than he is hitting a sacrifice fly, though not in the one extreme scenario you highlighted. 2008 - Konerko 22 HR, 17 GIDP 2005 - Everett 10 SF, 11 GIDP You are using a case of extremes in this situation, and it's very likely that the Sox would have gotten atleast 1 and perhaps 2 or 3 in scenario 1. And besides all of that, you are looking at the probability of an event happening in a single scenario, when baseball is and always will be a game of averages. Can you isolate that statistic for occasions when Konerko came up to bat with runners on 1st or runners on 1st and 2nd (or bases loaded)...whether he was more likely to GIDP, single or hit a homer? Weren't many of his HR's solo shots? Also, with Konerko, last year was something of a statistical anomaly because of his injuries which wiped out the first half of the season. The player we saw for the last 6 weeks or so was the "healthy/normal" Konerko IMO.

I think Marquez was the #8 prospect for the Yankees, maybe as recently as coming into 2008 or 2007. The Royals, with Meche, Greinke, Bannister, Davies, Hochevar/Torres and the Indians Lee, Carmona, Reyes, Lewis, Sowers/Laffey/Jackson would appear to also at least have the potential to be very strong rotations, IF IF IF they pitch up to their potential. From looking at it objectively, the Royals might have the best rotation in our division if Hochevar and Torres pitch as well as expected (unless Liriano gains his 2006 form and not the 2008 version after surgery).

I don't think signing Juan Cruz or Lyon and giving up Type A compensation is going to fly with KW, not after having "sweated out" whether Cabrera was going to accept or not.

Where will Cabrera and Uribe end up? Crede? These are the best available options currently in the market for a SS. Dodgers Blue Jays Royals A's Twins Orioles Indians It would be funny if the Indians had two Cabreras in their line-up, to go with Detroit's Cabrera. Although I feel that the Indians will move Asdrubal Cabrera over to SS and the Twins will move Alexi Casilla instead of spending money on a Jack Wilson or David Eckstein type of player.

Well, if we did end up trading Dye for Bailey and a prospect, we'd have a payroll approaching the $70 million mark, only about $5 million above the 2005 championship team. We'd have chopped off about 40% of the team's payroll from 2008. I will believe it when I see it when the Cubs acquire Peavy and we go into the season with Getz/Lillibridge/Betemit, Owens/Anderson/Lillibridge, Fields/Viciedo/Betemit and Marquez/Poreda/Richard as the missing pieces at those positions.