caulfield12

Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera and Matt Kemp might all be in play...Dodgers/Yankees are discussing a possible deal. Obviously, Cano or Kemp would look mighty nice in Sox uniforms, although our leadoff problem still lingers. And the costs of acquiring either might be more than KW is willing to part with.

Does anyone really LOVE playing in Oakland though, besides Nick Swisher and those "thunder sticks" banging fans?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 01:07 PM) Ethier and Kemp Well, trading EITHER ETHIER (had to say that) or Kemp for one year of Dye is certainly a "no go." It would require the inclusion of Fields, IMO. OTOH, Dye's Californian and I don't think he would be opposed to going back out there again. I mean, the cold weather in April/May in Chicago can be a drag sometimes, but USCF was seemingly built for him. There also have to be the same concerns we have about his age, declining range and the fact that he's had no major injuries over a four year time span. He seems to be one of those guys like Jenks we expect to go down again at some point.

Obviously, Kemp, who isn't going anywhere. Or Kershaw. Yhency Brazoban? I could see KW at least PONDERING whether to take Andruw Jones off their hands if they gave us a boatload of money to offset his contract for one year, but still unlikely. The Ethier and Loney types aren't going anywhere, either.

This is what my cousin who lives in Dallas had to say about Laird and the state of Texas sports/economy (in general) Rangers are interesting. They just gave away Laird, I don't know why. He will come back to haunt them. Good eye at plate. Good bunter. Good hit-and-run. Good arm (above average). Good job with the pitchers. When you have 4 catchers you sometimes forget how valuable they are. A 25 year old injured AA arm is not value for a major league catcher. John Danks trade could still be OK if McCarthy can stay healthy. Rangers messed with his delivery when he got here and got him hurt. Through injuries, Rangers started about 12 young pitchers last year and many looked promising. If I were GM, I would try to trade Millwood and Padilla for value so I could make more spots for the kids (it's a numbers game). Economy is effecting everything. I give up Cowboys tickets next year (you missed your chance of going to a game with me). It was simple math: 2 seat options ($60,000.00) Price per game $350.00 per seat $700.00 x 10 games $7,000.00. Guaranteed price for 5 years, then it can go up to anything (no limit) so if you look at losing seat options after 5 years. $60,000.00 + $35,000.00 = $95,000.00 / 50 games = $1,900.00 per game. This works out to buying a top-of-the-line HD television for each game we don't attend. If you ignore the seat options, you can still buy a nice HD television for each game you miss. So I won't be going to games for the first time in 46 years. Can we get the KC Chiefs back to Dallas?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 08:32 AM) Its really hard to judge most trades. The Foulke to Oakland trade can be judged both ways. It might have been horrible. Maybe if it wasn't made the White Sox win it all in 2003 without Billy Koch trying to close games. Flash Gordon took over the closer role. What if he was able to remain the primary set-up guy? Maybe that team wins. On the other hand, one of the guys you get in that trade is Olivo. He turns out to be part of the deal to get Garcia, who does help the White Sox win it all. Could the Sox have traded for Garcia without Olivo? We probably will never know. Then Garcia is traded for Floyd and Gio. Floyd helps the White Sox win the Central in 2008. Would Floyd have been a White Sox if Garcia wasn't available? We will never know. Gio goes for Swisher, who sucks in his only White Sox season, but he brings back some minor leaguers who may or may not help the White Sox win things in the future. So just when you look at that trade, you can make an argument it was awful, and you can make an argument it was fantastic. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/021203closers.html Olivo was not part of the Foulke/Koch deal....he was the player to be named later for RP Chad Bradford. I think this trade and maybe the one for Adkins/Durham were the ones that were used to "pick on" KW in Moneyball, the Michael Lewis' (aka former MTV VJ Tabitha Soren's husband) book The A's trade was Foulke, Mark Johnson and RP Joe Valentine for Koch, Cotts and OF Daylan Holt.

By the way, are you feeling contented now that we have new topics since the Cabrera/accepting arbitration issue is dead? Well, it was a fun/enlightening/entertaining debate while it lasted. Not quite as heated as the Taveras threads, in the end.

But would you REALLY want to bring back Jon Garland to Chicago at a price tag of $12 million or higher? Based on last season, in what isn't exactly a hitter's park, especially at night? Maybe? I guess it's a possibility, considering he wouldn't cost a draft pick, but KW keeps hammering away at the point that it's possible to get much better production out of a 4/5 starter for considerably less than Vazquez's $11.5 million last year. Well, I guess if Jamie Moyer is asking for $20 million over 2 years at his age, almost anything is possible.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/J...an-Adkins.shtml Yeah, the ugly numbers are coming back to me. He had a 6.03 ERA with Sacramento at the time of the trade, and had given up almost 140 hits in less than 100 IP. But, in all fairness, there was the perception that if you kept those players until the end of the season and then they departed via free agency, no compensation was going to come back. In retrospect, probably KW's worst trade after Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie. He doesn't have many like this one on his resume, thankfully for the Sox organization.

J. Hermida Milton Bradley (declined arbitration) Dunn (wasn't offered) Abreu (wasn't offered) Griffey, Jr. (wasn't offered by ChiSox) R. Ibanez (declined arbitration) Juan Rivera Also, it was interesting that Jon Garland declined arbitration coming off a $12 million dollar one-year contract with the Angels and an ERA of basically 5. The most he could have been cut was down to $9.6 million, so I guess he's still pretty confident he can get the same contract Kyle Lohse signed. Oliver Perez, Andy Pettitte, Randy Wolf, and Brad Penny. I think those are the four pitchers KW would be most likely to look at if he went the FA route, although Perez might be knocked off the list unless we grab Homer Bailey because it would give us four lefties. Same with Pettitte, although he would seem to be a perfect "veteran fit" to go with Buehrle and mentor Bailey/Poreda/Danks/Floyd, etc. Wolf and Penny have so-so injury histories, at best...then there's Jon Garland, who would be like bringing back Javier Vazquez, essentially.

2000: Scott Eyre for Gary Glover- Advantage Tor. (Kenny's first trade as GM) 2001: Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie- Advantage Pit. 2002: Chris Singleton for Willie Harris- Advantage Chi. 2002: Matt Guerrier for Damaso Marte and Edwin Yan- Push (not even close to a push, Guerrier did nothing for Pitt 2002: Ray Durham for Jon Adkins- Advantage Oak. Yes, but we saved paying Durham's salary so we could audition Harris to be the starter, unfortunately, we lost the draft picks because the belief was the Type A compensation draft pick system was going to disappear so KW wanted something back 2002: Keith Foulke & Mark Johnson for Billy Koch and 2ptbnl (Neal Cotts & Daylon Holt)- Advantage Oak.(Cotts was main cog in our World Championship team as the key lefty in the pen, Oakland never made it to World Series) 2003: Antonio Osuna for Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez- See Next Trade 2003: El Duque, Rocky Biddle, and Jeff Leifer for Bartolo Colon & Jorge Nunez- Advantage Chi. 2003: Wade Parrish for Ross Gload- Advantage Chi. 2003: Edwin Almonte, Royce Ring and Andrew Salvo for Roberto Alomar- Advantage Chi. (Slightly) 2003: Frank Francisco, Josh Rupe and Anthony Webster for Carl Everett- Advantage Chi. (Slightly) Francisco has one of the better arms in baseball, but very questionable "head" 2003: Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe- Push (not even close, Uribe had a huge impact in 2004 and was one of the main defensive stars in 2005) 2004: Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo and Mike Morse for Freddy Garcia and Ben Davis- Advantage Chi. 2004: Estaban Loaiza for Jose Contreras & Cash- Advantage Chi. 2004: Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik, Luis Vizcaino, and ptbnl- Advantage Chi. (2005 is the only reason, plus Lee left) 2005: Alex Escobar for Jerry Owens- TBD (Alex Escobar will never, ever amount to anything...) 2005: Aaron Rowand, Daniel Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez for Jim Thome- Advantage Phi. (WHAT???) 2005: Orlando Hernandez, Luis Vizcaino and Chris Young for Javier Vazquez- Advantage Chi. (Only Young Contributes) 2006: Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton- Advantage Chi. 2006: Neal Cotts for David Aardsma & Carlos Vazquez- Advantage Chi. Cubs 2006: Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd & Gio Gonzalez- Advantage Chi. 2006: Brandon McCarthy and David Paisano for Nick Masset, John Danks and Jacob Rasner- Advantage Chi. 2007: Jon Garland for Orlando Cabrera- Push Not really, because we'll get the draft picks and not pay Garland $12 million to be "average" 2007: Chris Carter for Carlos Quentin- Advantage Chi. 2007: Gio Gonzalez, Fautino De Los Santos and Ryan Sweeney for Nick Swisher- Advantage Oak. Jury still out, depending on what Marquez/Betemit/Nunez do...Sweeney is a 4th outfielder, DLS might never get out of A ball and Gonzalez MIGHT be a loogy 2008: Nick Masset and Danny Richar for Ken Griffey Jr.- Advantage Cin. ( Right now) Neither will be major contributors, Griffey helped lead us down stretch and into playoffs Sirotka for David Wells Miguel Olivo for Chad Bradford...at the time, huge win for OAK but evolved into a major part of getting Freddy Garcia, key pitcher in 2005 run Contreras for Loaiza Jeff Abbott for Julio Ramirez Aaron Myette for Royce Clayton D'Angelo Jimenez for Scott Dunn/Jimenez for Quintero/Fernandez any Sandy Alomar trade Ginter for Timo Perez James Baldwin for WRONG Barry/Berry, Onan Masaoka and Gary Majewski Rauch/Majewski for Carl Everett Kenny Lofton for Felix Diaz and a crafty lefty whose name escapes me Bobby Howry for Frank Francisco

We need starting pitching more than we need Furcal or Abreu at this point. Or are you assuming the Dye deal has or will go through with this post?

I'm pretty sure it's around $82 million. Taking Dye out would make it closer to $70 million...of course, Jenks will go up by $4.5 million, etc. Subtract Cabrera, Crede, Uribe, Griffey, Uribe, Swisher, Vazquez and the money coming from the Phillies for the final year of Thome.

Dick Allen, please sleep peacefully and restfully tonight, your days of fretting and worrying are over... KW is the best poker player in Vegas right now, we called this bluff a mile away.

Well, I'm not sure how I feel now after a couple of hours speculating about our future with Bailey. Everyone need not worry, apparently KW wasn't going to do a 1-for-1...we wanted something else back, and Cincy wanted some of our diminishing by the minute money to subsidize JD.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:46 PM) I would have taken Bailey for Dye in a 1 to 1 last season, not so sure this season. And I dont think this is a done deal right now. Just a hunch. But I wouldnt be surprised to see us give the Reds cash and also get another low spect or someone else. Rock Raines, who is the girl in your avatar? It looks like a cross between Rachael Leigh Cook and Alyssa Milano.

The one flaw in KW's moves is our defense: Swapping Ramirez for Cabrera probably isn't an improvement Lillibridge at 2B might be better than Ramirez, but Alexei was pretty solid, especially the first 3-4 months before he wore down RF should improve if Quentin's there 3B definitely will be going downhill compared to Crede/Uribe LF could be a mess... That's not a great way to build the confidence of a young pitching staff! Something has to be done to shore up the middle of the field...Furcal at SS, Alexei back at 2B and Taveras/Lillibridge/Anderson in CF would make me feel a quite a bit more confident.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:40 PM) speculation?? yes...that's all we have at this point i sent e-mails to rogers and gonzales hoping the Trib will start digging into the story, cowley's worthless

Fields, Dye and at least $6 million for Bailey and Encarnacion...

QUOTE (SEALgep @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:34 PM) Isn't that guy done? I think his eye injury ended his playing days forever... Wrong Encarnacion, the Tigers/Cardinals OF.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5904 (Encarnacion's stats) How would we get Encarnacion AND Bailey for Dye? That's crazy. It would have to be Dye and Fields and a lot of money going to Cincy.

If you add Bailey and Poreda to Danks and Floyd, we'd arguably have the best young pitching "quartet" in the game...at least major league level or within a year...it would be a toss-up with the Rays I guess. However, Kazmir is already starting to go up in salary, same thing with Edwin Jackson. Garza's sweet, and Shields is as solid as they come. Then you add in Price. Sonnanstine is the perfect 5th.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:20 PM) Wow. I really didn't think this would happen after the last couple of trades. The Sox have to have another move up their sleeve, because they can't go into next year with most of their most marketable players gone. They will have a hard time selling this if they don't figure out a way to plug some other holes. And I will be really pissed off if this move was forced by Cabrera coming back to the Sox. I don't think KW would do anything without being apprised of Cabrera's decision. As mentioned, it was "completed" before the WM even started...apparently. We needed another pitcher, everyone knows that, and Bailey is a better risk than Edwin Jackson IMO. This is a trade that KW has had his eye on for a long time, and independent of the SS situation.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:18 PM) I was thinking that I'd be satisfied if the Sox ended up getting two of these three: Furcal, Lowe, and Dunn. Even if it's not those guys specifically, I'd hope it would be a proven major league player at those respective positions (Starter, LF/RF, and 2B/SS). Furcal and Dunn are possibilities, no way on Lowe, Burnett or Sheets.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:16 PM) I don't buy that. Dye was well respected in Chicago. Referring to Swisher, not JD. I knew him when he played for Macon, class act, nothing bad has ever been said about the guy.