caulfield12

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:07 PM) If true, it pisses me off that we traded Swisher. He would have fit in LF, and put Quentin in RF. I think Ozzie told KW he wanted him gone. The fact is that Viciedo might end up a much better player, and we can sign Ibanez, Dunn, Abreu or Burrell for a reasonable contract for 2 years and hold down the fort while the prospects are coming up and maturing in AA/AAA.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:03 PM) Best free agent signing in White Sox history. Bobby Jenks and Alexei Ramirez weren't bad either, and Loaiza. We'll have to wait and see on Mr. Viciedo.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 09:01 PM) You must have not watched his performances for the Reds this past season. My brother also saw him in AAA a few times this season, and was shocked at how much velocity he's lost. Didn't Bailey throw in the AFL? If he was in fact injured or throwing in pain, that would explain the velocity drop/loss. If this trade went through, it would have to be based on thorough physical exams first and also the fact that he has re-established his mid 90's fastball. Otherwise, it's too big of a risk.

Hal McCoy is a very respected baseball journalist, one of the best.

Well, Stubbs, Dickerson, Freel....we'll just have to wait and see and not judge prematurely yet. Maybe it will be Brandon Phillips and everyone will jump up and down with glee?

I would rather sign Ibanez to a 2 year deal than sign Abreu or Dunn to 3-4 year deals. That gives us more flexibility going forward. The other question mark is Pat Burrell. Essentially, they could flip Dye for Bailey and then replace Dye's RH bat with Burrell and move Quentin to RF. and maybe end up paying Burrell $2-3 million less than they were going to pay JD.

Depends if we are "subsidizing" the deal with any money going to the Reds. If so, the secondary names like Freel and Dickerson, etc., will certainly come up.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 07:13 PM) Who? The 5 guys who have about 15 MLB AB's between them? Betemit, Lillibridge, Getz, Nix I still feel the long-range plan here is Beckham, which is why you haven't seen the White Sox and Hudson connected in a single story. Which undoubtedly means his signing will be announced tomorrow in Vegas.

And converting a somewhat delicate/fragile thirtysomething player into a CFer and risking a hamstring or other injury (diving into a wall, ala Rowand), isn't the brightest idea in the world, especially at 4-5 years and $40-50 million. Lillibridge will never be the player Hudson is, but we could get something of an approximation of the same or similar results at a fraction of the cost in CF. I think that's KW's thinking on this at least.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 09:55 PM) This dude said that none of Vazquez's offspeed pitches are plus pitches, WTF? Is he talking about the same Vazquez? I realize his bad ERA may lead an uninformed person to believe that, but come on. I guess I should expect that from ESPN. These scouting reports are funny. Boone Logan tops out at 91? Okay, sure. We've seen wildly variant "top speeds" for Santos Rodriguez, from low 90's to well over mid 90's. Comparing Gilmore to Sweeney because they're both from Iowa? Dissecting Flowers' "flawed" swing, just like they were doing with Beckham before he torched the AFL? The funny part is half of these guys have never seen the particular players even play, they just regurgitate what a scout said upon watching that player at some time in the past, and it might have been only based on the observation of 1-2 games. Kind of silly.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 03:00 PM) It makes me apprehensive to sign someone whose speed is a major tool that has been injured the last two seasons (Pods) and will be in his mid-thirties for the majority of the contract. Furcal was a good signing 4 years ago, but I think that ship has sailed, and the Dodgers lack of interest should throw up a red flag, like maybe they know something that we dont. I think our leadoff hitter will come from the CF position, and it may be an acquisition for another young prospect, maybe a package of the pieces that we have acquired for a year of Chone Figgins and Peter Bourjos, Cameron Maybin, or Dexter Fowler they would all fit KW's plan to get younger, be more athletic, and improve the defense. Save the money and get a pitcher instead of spending on a big question mark like Furcal. The Fowler and Maybin trades will be announced the same day we acquire Fernando Martinez.

Ramirez' top value to this team remains at SS or 2B because of his "plus" offensive numbers there, probably not 3B or CF. Beckham will most likely end up at 2B, or possibly 3B...although it would be great if either Beckham (or Lillibridge) stayed as "pure" shortstops, the belief is that the position might be too much for him to handle at the major league level. Of course, the same arguments are being used about Flowers remaining at catcher, where he would obviously have the most value to the White Sox or any other organization. Viciedo will most likely end up in LF/RF/1B/DH.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 04:13 PM) I've always thought if he accepts arb he will get between $11-12 million. Shockingly, Heyman at SI put what he thought he would get at the exact same figure. He still thinks is less than 50/50 OC accepts and uses Renteria's contract as a measuring stick, but I did read where SF way overbid for Renteria, that he probably wasn't going to be able to get more than 2 years at $6 million per. I also read where the Dodgers had very little interest in OC in a Rosenthal column. When OC was acquired KW attempted to get him to sign an extension. It would be interesting to see if it ever got to the point terms were discussed, and if they were, how high the White Sox were willing to go. If he declines, KW should contemplate becoming a professional dodge ball player. Fukudome, Jered Wright, trading Garland for Erstad only to have the Angels ownership squash it, the Ordonez extension that was rejected, having Hawk change his mind about AJ, and this...........he'd probably rule that sport. Don't forget NOT trading Buerhle and Dye. We don't know what the package that "almost" ended up in us acquiring Cabrera, and if they would have tried to dump D. Willis on us in that deal, but that could have been devastating in terms of payroll flexibility and talent surrendered. Jurrgens has been very good for the Braves, and Maybin looks like a future star...look how far DET and Dombrowski have fallen in one year's time, just like the White Sox coming out of 07. I mean, they're trying to trade for Jack Wilson or Adam Everett, and the economy of Michigan appears doomed to 20% unemployment. Talk about a turnaround in the divisional alignment. Of course, Porcello will probably still be a stud, but the Tigers are trying to ditch whatever contract they can, with Sheffield and Willis stuck on their books....Magglio might be the next to go, and Carlos Guillen's getting older.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=cws

http://www.thescoreboards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18935 I couldn't find the result of the grievance, but it looks like the Padres had to pay 1/4th of his salary as "severance," so the White Sox theoretically could lose $2.5 million if they went that route. Of course, they'd be much better off holding onto Cabrera....he could get something much better than Jon Adkins in return, that only happened because all the clubs thought that the Type A/B compensation system was going out the window that offseason (didn't happen) and some teams got burned, like the White Sox. Of course, the Sox had no desire to hold onto Durham, and they saved money on Durham's contract while trying out Willie Harris there over the final months of the season.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8901804...ect-arbitration More recent Rosenthal article on FA's rejecting arbitration. One key note is the arbitration deals are one year, NON-GUARANTEED contracts. Something else to consider.

Let's back up...we haven't seen any offers or what's available to O-Cab, because his negotiations haven't been public like with Furcal. That doesn't mean he doesn't have any offers. We do know ONE team was willing to give Renteria, who's valued as a lesser player and was run out of DET on a rail essentially, an average of $9.25 milllion per season over two years. Of course, some GM's and "insiders" say that was a crazy move by SF and they were essentially bidding against themselves. We do know that Minnesota, Oakland, Baltimore, Cleveland and the Dodgers remain in the market for a SS, and possibly the Blue Jays. Oakland, Baltimore and the Dodgers look like good possibilities. We do know that Minnesota has passed on Blake at 3 years and $20 million, so they're more likely to want to make a move at SS OR trade Beltre for Delmon Young, who they've put on the market because of dissatisfaction with his attitude, defense, baserunning and lack of power. Sources say the White Sox moving Jermaine Dye is "overblown." He'll cost $11.5MM next year with a $1MM buyout for 2010 and teams in need of a corner outfielder can target Dunn or Bobby Abreu rather than give up prospects to the White Sox. Orlando Cabrera has been made aware that Alexei Ramirez is the starting shortstop in 2009 and, for that reason, OC is expected to decline arbitration even in a depressed shortstop market. Olney reports that Rafael Furcal's final contract request (from the A's) was 4 years, $52MM. He wound up rejecting the offer of 4 years, $35-40MM. mlbtraderumors

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 10:01 AM) You can trade him earlier if you get his permission http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1114 Which would undoubtedly be given in this case by Cabrera...in all likelihood. It has been a long time since an arbitration decision was so filled with suspense for the White Sox.

Okay, fine...we pay Cabrera for 55-65% of the season and auction him off to the highest bidder, whose starter has gone down to injury. What's the problem with that? Ramirez goes back to 2B, and it buys all of our middle infield prospects another half season to prove themselves, especially Beckham and Lillibridge, but also Getz, who I think would be more likely than Lillibridge to go down to AAA. Or one of the 2B prospects emerge and Alexei plays all over the field, but CF mostly, with some time at 2B as well, with Lillibridge backing up at SS. Although there's also the possibility Lillibridge is the starting SS for Charlotte and Getz at 2B...with Nix on the MLB roster, although I think they would really prefer Lillibridge as their second utility player to go with Betemit. The deadline is 13 hours away...exactly right now, 11 pm in Thailand, hahaha!!!!

Except for when Jon Adkins, Felix Diaz, Nick Masset, Jon Rauch, Jim Parque, Lorenzo Barcelo, Danny Wright or Bobby Jenks are pitching, lol. Then the radar gun has some relevance.

I'm still not understanding what the problem here is. KW is doing everything possible to get him NOT to accept arbitration...within reason. Maybe you disagree with his methods or tone, or whatever, but he had a right to express the opinion that Alexei was his SS and that he wanted to play the kids at 2B. It's not unlike the movie "Casino Royale," with KW as James Bond, haha. He might lose this bluff, but ultimately, how does it hurt us? If we have Cabrera under contract for one season, worse things have happened. The fact is, it would give us more flexibility with our roster, and Alexei could move back to 2B or to the OF and the overall team would be better, not worse. Or, instead of teams worried about signing him due to losing the draft picks, he trades Cabrera to a team whose SS goes down in spring training or whose "rookie phenom" they expected to be ready in 2009 isn't quite there yet (hello ATL OR MIL). So, in many ways, he would/could be just as valuable to another team in trade for ONE YEAR at a fixed/predictable rate rather than signing himfor 3-4 seasons and then also losing draft picks, too (in an unforeseeable economy). I don't think has KW has any intention of keeping him on the roster for very long, but he also provides valuable insurance for Alexei Ramirez not being able/ready to play SS. KW did the responsible thing here, if he didn't offer arbitration, we wouldn't get ANYTHING back in return, right? Now, our team is either better or 2) our team is better because we can trade him for another part we want, like 3B, CF or a pitcher. Ozzie is saying all the right things about him being welcomed back, it's classic "good cop," "bad cop." I mean, Ozzie threw the leader of his country, Chavez under the bus this week (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=255587&src=162) but didn't have one negative thing to say about Cabrera when he had the opportunity. Interesting, isn't it? If we didn't offer him arbitration, everyone would be screaming bloody murder. The worst thing you can say is that KW "MIGHT" eventually have to trade Konerko/Dye/Jenks if Cabrera's on the roster for payroll flexibility, but he was apparently weighing all these options well before any decision that Cabrera makes about accepting the arbitration offer from the Sox. And that's a big assumption that we would not be able to find a single suitor for Cabrera...when we got the package we got back for Javy after the way he closed out the season. Say what you want about his OPS and OBP, Cabrera is usually around winning teams, and there are plenty of GM's who appreciate that more than the SABR fanatics. Everything will work out in the end, and all of KW's plans can be adjusted on the fly for changing circumstances.

If he's truly a question "mark," give me four more Question Marks in our rotation and we'll have the 2009 AL Central Division Championship Banner to fly right next to 2008, 2005 and 2000.

Agreed....trading AJ and Buehrle would be the least likely or pleasant options of any available to KW at this point in time...well, except for trading Quentin or Danks I guess.

Well, there are a couple of arguments, the same ones we see here all the time. Furcal would rather stay in the NL, where he's most comfortable and familiar with the pitching staffs over there. Second, if he only signs for one year, the best place to re-establish a higher value might be in the NL, where his stats would be about 25% better than in the AL, arguably. If the agent (Kinzer) turned down $35-40 million over four years (although there have been at least two inaccurate stories already in the Furcal saga, some spread by Furcal and his agent in El Caribe newspaper) AND he had a solid offer for $39 million and 3 years, I have no idea why he wouldn't take the three year deal. Every article I've seen has him around $35-45 million over four years. At any rate, the list of suitors for him is diminishing. I just don't see the Twins suprising everyone and giving him a huge deal at age 31, especially considering he would play almost half a season on turt. The Orioles don't seem to have a clue what they're doing or which direction they're heading...if they are trading Brian Roberts, why would they add a veteran like Furcal to essentially replace Tejada in their IF? Oakland's out. LA's supposedly out. Detroit is looking at low-budget options like Wilson and Everett. Cleveland would surprise the heck out of me if they committed that money...CLE and DET, in particular, would seem to be most vulnerable to the economic recession playing havoc with their revenues.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/1317...eluca07.article Chris DeLuca on the same topic...I do think it's a little ridiculous for him to use the term "rebuilding" if we don't acquire a proven leadoff hitter, as Cabrera certainly wasn't a prototypical one. If anything, going with two unproven starters will do more damage than Getz/Owens/Wise/Ramirez/Lillibridge will do leading off.