caulfield12

Every time you intentionally bring in the "wing man" who is a friend to use her in a manipulative way, it never works. One can only be so "strategic" in this...if it happens naturally, that's the only time it is really effective, that girls will notice each other and recognize instinctually that another is circling "their" territory and they have to decide whether the fight or flight response is necessary. As noted, some girls want their guy to stay single, even though they don't really want to date him...it's strange, like that movie My Best Friend's Wedding, even where the guy has a fiance, he still doesn't want another man to be with his friend, even if nothing has ever happened between them romantically.

Well, one thing's for sure, the team is definitely not going to be bankrupt because of the owner. It's not a situation like the D-Backs or Rangers, and interestingly, and both of those teams contended quite nicely when they were supposedly going through financial problems (although you can see the effects/fallout out in Phoenix now). The Scherzer and Austin Jackson trades have worked out better than expected for the Tigers, and I have a hard time seeing the Tigers being dismantled when we thought the same thing going into this year and they were able to add Valverde and Damon. If they can get Galarraga and Porcello straightened out 100%, they'll be a competitive team, for sure. Like seemingly every team, they have a hole at the back end of their rotation...but so do the White Sox, possibly.

Inge ($6.6 million), Laird, Damon ($8 million), Bonderman ($12.5 million), Willis ($12 million) and Robertson ($10 million)...not sure exactly how much they ate on those last two deals, probably about 75-80%. Plus the money from Magglio Ordonez now saved, $15 million for 2011 option. I'm guessing they will try to pay lip service to bringing back Ordonez and Inge on smaller deals, and PERHAPS Bonderman as well, but Jeremy's one of those cases where they might be better off investing the big money he's sure to get from someone (glad Hawk isn't our GM anymore) and going in a different direction. I think you'd have to consider DET, coming into the offseason, as the team best positioned to make a run in 2011...especially with Peavy's status unknown.

Today was the first day for the Seattle Mariners to respond to the report that Ken Griffey was asleep in the clubhouse during a pinch-hit opportunity and Mike Sweeney(notes) didn't have any trouble standing up for his elder teammate. The devout Christian who once bullrushed Jeff Weaver(notes) says he challenged the Safeco Field deep throats to stand up and fight him, but no one took him up on the offer. Pity, too, because Mike Sweeney's a man! He's 40!

http://www.seattlepi.com/baseball/2010ap_b...gout_fight.html I guess KW and Sox fans should be thankful we didn't trade for/sign either Figgins or Bradley... There's another article in the Seattle Times, I thought this was the most interesting insight... The Mariners are 2-7 since the All-Star break and have committed numerous baserunning, situational hitting and fielding blunders. But through it all, the players committing the gaffes have been allowed to remain in games and stay in the starting lineup. Wakamatsu has been saying since before the break that his players would be held accountable for mistakes. This time, he made good on that pledge. "I think you're talking about baserunning plays, and not all of those are cut and dried," Wakamatsu said of the prior gaffes that went unpunished. "I thought this was cut and dried." There has been an underlying tension brewing between Wakamatsu and some of his players since the hasty retirement and departure of Ken Griffey Jr. in early June. The pair did not speak for roughly two weeks before Griffey leaving, and several players believe Wakamatsu forced him into retirement — a charge the manager vehemently denies. The week following the retirement, Figgins reacted angrily and criticized Wakamatsu's decision to bump him from No. 2 back to No. 9 in the batting order during a series in Texas. The Mariners were embarrassed on the field during that series, and several veterans — including the since-traded Cliff Lee — held a players-only meeting in San Diego afterward to clear the air about several topics, including putting the Griffey episode behind them. One of the reasons Branyan was acquired was for additional leadership at a time the team knew Lee was soon to be traded. "It's something where we need to come together and pull through this," Branyan said, "as opposed to pointing fingers and tearing the team apart."

It's going to be interesting to see how long they wait for Kotsay to spring back to life. When you looked at the match-up before this game and the fact that the A's have been playing playing pretty well, not to mention Buerhle's decade-long history of struggles in Oakland, it really seemed set up for a loss...or at the very least, another Jenks appearance. It wasn't a very exciting game, but one thing Ozzie did do well was get the runners moving to stay out of a double play situation early with Konerko at bat (could have been a triple play) and also running Jones and Lillibridge late, setting up the clinching insurance runs. 26th complete game of his career, has done his customary blue-collar work of battling to get his ERA back to 4 from the mid 5's range.

From watching Torii Hunter most of his career and even in the minors, I would definitely pick him over Rowand. Now maybe too many think of Hunter as the slowed-down, post Astroturf lingering wear and tear player with the Angels, but that guy was just a game-changing defender. He also had the ability to go over the fence at will and change the composition of numerous games with his athletic ability. Another area where Aaron wasn't as solid was throwing the ball. He had an above-average arm, but he wasn't very effectively in throwing out runners either, I can recall numerous balls that he threw right into the ground, and he had a knack for hitting the mound over and over again. Those Gold Gloves he (Hunter) won were all legit until maybe the last year or so, when he won it on reputation alone. In this situation, it's a lot like Chavez versus Crede, where Chavez was great for the first 2-3-4 years of his career and lived off his early accolades, to the point where Crede never officially dethroned him. I know, I know....someone will bring up Derek Jeter winning, that inevitably happens in any discussion of this topic. Maybe Aaron is a little bit of a victim (to me) of the overhyping, the same thing happened with Brian Anderson...I got so sick of hearing how good they were or how underrated that they were...that they became overrated to me, and while Rowand had one great offensive season with the Sox where he piled up all those doubles (I think it was 04) he was never quite as good as his offensive reputation either (which is why he's one of the worst 10 contracts in baseball, along with Carlos Lee, despite playing in the NL).

Sheets is scheduled to start on Sunday against the White Sox but probably won't go. There's something definitely wrong with him physically...his last start against the Red Sox, he was consistently in the mid 80's with his fastball. Most likely, or at least 50/50, they'll hold back Sheets and go with Bret Anderson instead of Sheets. I think it's down to Haren and Oswalt in terms of impact starters.

Pretty amazing this would be Buehrle's first career victory in Oakland. Definitely has been a house of horrors for him, 0-6 lifetime at the Coliseum and 3-12 overall against the A's. Glad, for now, there's no need for the bullpen in this game. Have they announced whether they will use Sheets or Anderson on Sunday?

Scott's really hot right now. They already have Wieters, you can push them to take Flowers but it's back to the same thing, giving up Viciedo for Luke Scott. Pretty obviously, it won't be Danks. And if you're the Orioles, you're probably not going to take a package of players like Morel and Short (just throwing out names) over someone much closert to big league readiness.

Without giving up Beckham, it's going to have to be Gavin Floyd AND Santos AND Viciedo/Flowers. You can't cripple the starting pitching staff by including Floyd, Danks or Hudson in a trade. We can shed Torres, of course, but that's not going to be enough to come close to getting Fielder or Dunn.

And I think everyone on this board would agree we would simply LOVE to see Bobby Jenks pitch like he's CAPABLE of pitching. Because without him, that creates yet another issue on this team that already has to deal with the loss of Peavy, Carlos Quentin's nagging injuries, the lack of production from Kotsay/Jones at DH, etc. I would guess that MOST Sox fans don't believe he will be effective in any other role than closer...some think he might pout or pull a Swisher, who knows...the only thing we can say with certainty is that it would be better if we could leave Putz and Thornton in their current roles. Otherwise, you have to make someone do something they're not comfortable with, and we saw how that failed before when Dotel in particular was pushed back into more critical situations when Linebrink went down in 2008. I don't know how we are in first place, to tell the truth. Just that great run of starting pitching, 32 quality starts in 38 tries. Ozzie has done quite a commendable job keeping this team together, and I was one of quite a few (I won't say many) who wanted him gone and who felt he had lost this team late in 2009 and then early in 2010. Ozzie has always proven to be resilient, and never a quitter, at his best when everyone is betting against him and waiting for his downfall. Just like in late 2008 when we had lost Crede, Linebrink, Quentin and Contreras, we've had to improvise and the odds still favor the Twins and perhaps even the Tigers unless KW makes a season-changing move that will affect this franchise for the next half decade. Personally, I wouldn't want to make that decision, because our starting pitching, bullpen and defense are good enough to compete with the Rays, Rangers and Yankees in the playoffs. Still, I'd rather go with what we have and let the chips falls where they may than knock ourselves out of contention for 2011-12-13 by trading away Hudson, Viciedo and Flowers. We still have no idea how/when Peavy will recover, it's too risky to trade Hudson, despite the glowing medical reports, we're dealing with a unique injury for a pitcher, we should be careful not to thin out our pitching depth.

Greg, I really don't "get" why you enjoy defending him so much...? Just to be against the crowd or counter-intuitive? You were here (I'm guessing) when Takatsu was around, Koch, Foulke, Howry, etc. Some of them, like Keith, basically removed themselves from the closer's role...others lost it because their stuff either fell off, the league figured them out or they weren't fooling anyone anymore (Koch and Shingo). Nobody HATES Bobby Jenks. I don't think I've honestly felt that towards any member of the White Sox. We can dislike them as players, feel they're being utilized incorrectly by Ozzie or overexposed, but the fact of the matter is that Jenks is making millions of dollars, he should be held accountable for his physical conditioning if it starts to affect his ability to pitch well. I'll give you an example, Jenks can't field his position (see numerous bunt attempts) or hold runners on. When he was very good, that didn't matter, he had the stuff to pitch around it, but he no longer has that dominating arsenal, and/or he refuses to use it due to pain or injury concerns. You don't think that getting in much better shape would allow him to "help himself" out on the mound, especially in terms of fielding? Isn't he being disrespectful to his teammates by caring more about his goatee than he does about holding runners on? We just have to face facts. He's been very lucky so far this season, for the most part. Now in no way, shape or form are Thornton, Putz or Santos going to be lock-down closers either, but they at least deserve the opportunity to try, if for no other reason than if the team and every Sox fan expects a blown save or 2-3 runners to reach every time Jenks goes out there, it's going to have a snowball effect on the rest of the season.....even if we had Prince Fielder, a bullpen with Jenks as closer only holding 60-75% of the the leads (and most of them have been 2 or 3 runs, I think) is simply not going to work. This team will be destroyed psychologically if we continue to blow at least TWO games that are already won per week. It can't go on. Yes, everyday and every game in baseball is a new chance, a new opportunity to prove yourself, but if you had to bet your house and life savings right now, would you bet that Jenks would have a sub 3.00 ERA going forward or would you bet with the house money that he would be at 5+ going forward? The last time he recovered, but at that point, he wasn't pitching for a first place team with every loss magnified.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 11:09 AM) Point of bashing him is he's cost us two games since the ASB. I don't care if Osama Bin Laden is on the White Sox (you want to talk about bad facial hair), as long as they help the Sox win, then I'll cheer them on. Well, if bin Laden is the closer, he definitely needs to dye his goatee black or Sox silver because the salt and pepper beard won't scare or intimidate many opposing batters. But maybe it could make Joe Mauer bunt again with the winning runs on base...

The asking price will be a lot more than Torres, though. I don't see this happening, simply because I can't remember KW EVER reaching on an overachieving player at his optimum value (thus overpaying)...certainly not at midseason. Now you can say that he paid a high price in the original Swisher trade, but that wasn't overpaying based on his career results and his post-Sox career with the Yankees, and Gio has developed into an even more effective starter than many imagined (quite a few had him pegged as a reliever or 5th starter at best).

I think one of the original reasons he chose the White Sox was definitely the closeness of the relationship with Jaime Torres, KW and the "kinship" and success enjoyed by El Duque, Contreras and Alexei Ramirez with the White Sox from 2004 through the present. No doubt about that. Many felt we had our own version of a "Cuban Pipeline" of incoming talent. Of course, Viciedo changed agents to Boras eventually...personally, I don't think he will deal Viciedo, simply because KW wants to prove to the rest of the GM's how right he was on both Ramirez (paying low) and Viciedo (paying high). Maybe GM egoism shouldn't enter into the equation, but I think it does sometimes with KW. I really feel he believes that Viciedo will end up something like a Miguel Cabrera Lite, or, to go old school in comparisons, one I've heard mentioned pretty frequently is former Cardinal/Dodger Pedro Guerrero. You don't trade away 5 years of a cost-controlled Pedro Guerrero for the 2 month rental of Dunn, especially when payroll limitations mean you have to get contributions from Dayan, Hudson, Beckham, Ramirez, Santos, Flowers, Danks, Mitchell, Sale, etc.

THEN can we can respectively disagree on CF and RF. And I think Konerko's better now than he was before, as well. We just saw Andruw Jones save the game...a play Quentin or Dye never would have made.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 07:50 PM) According to UZR, DER (defensive efficiency ratio), and PADE (park adjusted defensive efficiency), the 2010 defense is not even comparable to the 2005 defense. I'm not talking about the COMPOSITE/ACCUMULATED seasonal stats. I'm talking about the actual White Sox defensive line-up on the field the last couple of nights. That means Omar Vizquel and not Teahen at 3B, the best version we've ever seen of Alexei Ramirez, a confident Gordon Beckham at 2B and Andruw Jones instead of Quentin in RF. That's a very different team than April/May of 2010. We've had two aberrational games (ones with Viciedo and even Vizquel struggling, although we did win the 5 error game) with a total of 9 errors combined, but I'm sure if you look at those other 35/37 games, you'll see a tremendous difference between the two defenses.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 06:44 PM) How do setup men affect save percentage? You either pitch in a save situation or you don't. Jenks has no control over whether they get the ball to him in the 9th with a 3 run lead or less and it wouldn't affect the percentage of times he's successful. Totally disagree with this on a baseball level. How many teams do you honestly think would've handled Jenks differently? Most teams give a closer of his track record a number of opportunities. I would argue that there isn't a single organization that would've pulled the plug on him yet if they were given the exact same personnel. We yanked Shingo early in 2005 when he was clearly struggling... But I am sure the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, etc., wouldn't give him as much leeway. #1, they have the freedom to "bench" him and go out and acquire another pitcher, and #2, money is not as much of a core issue with his contract as it is with Jenks now on the White Sox. If they had relievers like Thornton, Putz and Santos, they would probably try one of them (especially Putz) before going out in the trade market. Let's face it, Bobby was a pretty great "steal" and value the first 3-4 years of his time here, and now he's simply not much of an asset at all. I don't know if one team in baseball would take him off our hands and give us anything close to a Top 5-6 prospect in their organization. Not without us subsidizing his contract, which will never happen. There's also the theory that an NL team would take the gamble, but I'm sure their scouts are aware of the same issues we all are as White Sox fans.

Perhaps Jorge Cantu makes the most sense as an added bat now, or Xavier Nady. Someone along those lines...who won't cost a fortune to acquire. LaRoche is obviously still in play, too.

I thought it was a 4 year, $10 million contact, with a $4 milllion signing bonus. Have to check Cott's baseball contracts. $4M signing bonus 09:$1M, 10:$1.25M, 11:$1.25M, 12:$2.5M if Viciedo has enough service time to qualify for arbitration after 2011, he may void 2012 season (if voided, club may exercise option at $3.5M) award bonuses: $15,000 for Silver Slugger; $25,000 each for Gold Glove, All Star start ($15,000 for All Star selection); $50,000 for TSN All Star; $75,000 for LCS MVP; $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M for MVP ($90,000 for 2nd in vote, $80,000 for 3rd, $70,000 for 4th, $60,000 for 5th) So we've sunk $6.25 million into him already...and only have to pay him $3.75 million over the next two seasons and then arbitration for two years, like Alexei. So he'll be VERY cheap for 2011, and still quite affordable for at least two years after that. I'm not sure, but perhaps since he didn't play on the big league roster in 09, we would theoretically have him for 3 more years after this? Four? He certainly won't reach that service time for 2009-10 to get him arbitration after next year. My understanding with Alexei is that we'll still control his rights in 2012 and 2013, he'll just be a bit more expensive (arbitration/year to year contracts, or signed to an extension, like that Teahen deal).

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 09:50 AM) That 05 left side of the infield was unstoppable. The outfield was great with Rowand in center, Pods in left, and a still alright Jermaine Dye in right. Iguchi and Konerko were more than serviceable on the right side of the infield. Plus, back then, A.J. was actually able to throw some guys out. Pods was really bad (he improved his second time with us) and Rowand was simply overrated...because he dove all over the field and ran into fences, plays that Brian Anderson or Rios routinely make without breaking a sweat. Dye was never a very good defender at any point with us, because his arm was no longer a weapon. He had the reputation of having a very strong arm, but it wasn't close to what he had from around 1996-02 (not unlike Sosa, who had a great but inaccurate arm when he first came to the Sox from the Rangers).

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 09:40 AM) The 05 defense was better. Maybe they (2005 SOX) played better together as a team or unit, but just comparing Pierre/Rios/A. Jones with Pods/Rowand/Dye, it's not even a contest. Ramirez (of the last 6 weeks) and Uribe are a wash (some would give the edge to Alexei because of his superior range almost equal arm), Vizquel and Crede are a wash, Beckham will be better than Iguchi (not yet at turning double plays and the pivot/foot movement) and Konerko's having his best all-around season, offensively and defensively. I'll just put it this way....there's not one player from 2005 that is clearly better (defensively) at any position on the field compared to the 2010 team. Even AJ has been more successful throwing out runners this year compared to years past....although Contreras, Floyd and Jenks were the reason for a number of the steals, to name 3.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 07:15 AM) I really think being able to trust that the 3b next to him will get what he's supposed to get and more means that alexei has been able to completely focus on what he should be doing, not what he should be doing, plus how he needs to over for 3b. I think you mean not what he SHOULDN'T be doing...but the point is that he can relax, feeling quite confident about who is playing to the right and left of him. Plus it doesn't hurt for him to have someone out there next to him he can communicate with fluently. Comfort level or zone is often underestimated, but Omar's steadying presence has obviously had a positive effect, and we can finally bury those arguments about Beckham playing SS.

Well, Iguchi made some great plays, but I guess you could call him solid, if not sometimes spectacular, still I'd take Beckham's overall defensive potential and youth/range over Tad. Konerko's become an even better defender since that time, but he has always had his limitations in terms of range and athletic ability in terms of leaping in the air or being able to improvise and track down wide or high throws. Pods was sort of a mess for much of his early Sox career (by his second coming, he'd actually improved quite a bit in LF), Rowand was very solid but certainly not in Rio's ballpark as a defender and Dye versus Jones in RF, there's not much of a comparison there, either. The way Ramirez is playing, leading the world in TC and range factor and with Vizquel, who has the softest hands in the history of the game perhaps...you're going to be pretty hard-pressed to beat that.