caulfield12

I really wonder if KW and Ozzie are thinking of making a run at Manny Ramirez for 2 seasons....although I am petty sure he'll get 3-4 elsewhere. It's not going to be Lowe or Burnett, we know that much. Sabathia and Sheets (because he could be had for less based on injuries, just like Harden) are more likely, but not high probability in any realm of the imagination. Peavy is certainly intriguing to talk about. I would rather pay Peavy big bucks than Dunn or Abreu, someone like that. I keep going back to 2005, and starting pitching wins championships. With all the pieces KW has to play with, I think our offense will be fine, if not much better than 2008 (unless we deal Dye, in which case it would be likely to take until 2010 with Fields, Viciedo, Beckham and even someone like Fernando Martinez making a true impact to see improvement in the offense).

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 05:34 PM) So to be clear, this is who we want to make Cabrera an offer: 1. Dodgers 2. Cardinals 3. Blue Jays 4. Twins 5. Angels And these are the teams we want to stay away: 1. Mariners 2. Orioles 3. Giants 4. Braves 5. Tigers 6. Athletics That is, if you care about 20 or so spots in the draft order. And I do. I would think the Blue Jays would want to put all their efforts into retaining Halladay, unless they auction him off in some kind of Herschel Walker-esque megatrade. They have huge money going to Wells and Rios, and I think Rolen's pretty expensive too, especially for what they're getting out of him. They have to really hope Snider explodes this year so they can move some of the veteran dollars. Didn't show enough patience with Jayson Werth, either, or ever really find a position for him.

Buscher and Brendan Harris played third the majority of the time. The Twins are deliberating moving Casilla to SS, which would open up a hole at 2B. They could play Tolbert over there, or move Harris, who is pretty weak defensively, especially at short...they have some options. They might end up signing Uribe as low cost insurance all around the diamond. I think I would prefer him to Punto, if the money's right.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 04:54 PM) Bobby Howry signs with the Giants, 1 year, $2.75 million. Edgar Renteria is closing in on a 2 year deal with the Giants. Trever Miller (Formerly of the Rays) signed a 1 year deal with the Cardinals. Former Brewer Russel Branyan signed a 1 year deal with the Mariners. The Giants were one of four teams in on Cabrera. The Dodgers would be the best bet, they don't want to pay Furcal's asking price or years. Or the Twins could factor in, although if they sign Blake, I don't know if they will bring in two pretty high-priced FA's in one offseason. I'll be somewhat shocked if it occurs. You also never know, the Tigers could also be interested in O-Cab, but they seem to be in cost-cutting mode, even considering dealing Ordonez unless they can figure out what to do with Willis. Carlos Guillen's also getting up there in age (I say that more in terms of wear and tear on his body), Sheffield, etc.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 04:38 PM) I know there has been alot of comments on how KW "steals" players from other teams, but I think this is a very common KW trade that works out good for both teams. Here is a comment from the Braves board www.talkingchop.com ATL gave up nothing that they needed for 2009 and may just may their rotation the best in their division. Most Braves' fans believe that Vazquez will be sold to them as their new "ace" and that they aren't going to spend the type of money necessary to beat the Yankees for Burnett, who will be frustrated losing Sabathia/Lowe and doubly determined to get at least one of the top 3. Hudson, there's no guarantee he will be healthy. Jurrgens, there's a lot of concern about such a young pitcher piling up so many innings...like we've had with Danks over the past couple of seasons. He's their ace right now, essentially. (thankfully, both Maybin and Jurrgens are out of the AL Central, but Porcello looms) Hanson has much to prove, but very talented.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 02:23 PM) Would you feel any more secure with: Indians: Lee, Carmona, Westbrook, Sowers, Reyes/Jackson, ETC Tigers Verlander, Miner, Bonderman, Galaragga, Willis/someone? Royals: Meche, Greinke, Bannister, Hochever, Davies/Duckworth, Everybody has as many question marks as we do. Every team has to rely on unproven talent at some point. Our biggest competition is the Twins, and they seem to be doing just fine with their collection of young arms. We can compete in this division with a young rotation. Hell, if Bailey and Poreda pan out We have the potential to dominate it. And if they don’t… we can always sign someone, we can trade for someone, we can bring up someone, or we can ride it out until Contreras gets that leg back under him. We have options. While I think we'll pursue a veteran starter to slot in this year, I don't find the prospect of having four of the (current) and former top pitching prospects in the game in our rotation particularly alarming. Westbrook might be out for all of 2009.....Lewis is likely to have a chance to keep his hot streak going. Sowers and Laffey figure in for 5th. Bonderman, there's no guarantees about his injury recovery, Galaragga is their 2 right now. Willis will be traded, with the Tiggers eating salary, and they still have Nate Robertson. For now, the Twins are the best, but Perkins and Blackburn ended up the season in shaky fashion, Liriano still has a lot to prove, Baker and Slowey have to repeat (just like Danks and Floyd) their success.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 12:36 PM) You need to get your head of your ass and read into some sarcasm. I've seen Rivera play and I know his 2006 stats were great, but we're talking about a guy who has had a shattered leg in CF. Ummmm....sure. I know that how, exactly? By your saying he's a grinder, hahaha! does that mean you're saying he's not? But, in the end, what's the point exactly, and what does that add to the discussion? Maybe we need color codes like the other side for our "sarcastic" comments so we can differentiate those we know who are trying to be funny/sarcastic and those are unintentionally funny by making inane comments.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) But you're quoting Rivera's BEST year and comparing it to one of Dye's worst. Dye was exceptionally better than that in 1999, 2000, and 2001 before injuries really started to rock his boat. He had a track-record of All-Star caliber play, not just one year. But that's really his last full, healthy season...but you're right, I did also "cherry pick" that because people who don't know much about him are comparing him to Darin Erstad, Rob Mackowiak, Joe McEwing, Aaron Miles, David Eckstein, etc. That's just ridiculous. He's a much more gifted player than that label signifies. But the point remains, both were around 30, had major injury concerns hanging over them and signed for less than many other available players on the market (Dunn, Ibanez, Griffey maybe, Burrell, Abreu).

If the Yankees could have packaged Marquez and Hughes/Kennedy for Peavy, don't you think they would have done it already? Especially in light of the very high likelihood that Lowe and Sabathia go elsewhere and they're left with AJ Burnett aka Future Pavano.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:13 PM) He is...awesome eye, tough to strike out, understands the strike zone, some speed, good handle of the bat...not much pop, but not totally punch and judy either. Getz is a nice player...will he make it all the way to the starting 9? Hard to say right now. Getz and Taveras are separated by only 10 points in their career minor league OBP's and OPS numbers. So their minor league numbers are almost identical in many respects. That's the reason most see Getz as a utility player and not as a starter...the same reason people would prefer Taveras for a 4th OF and pinch runner.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:08 PM) Grinder. 2006 In less than 500 at-bats (448 to be exact), Rivera hit 23 homers and had 85 RBI's with an .887 OPS and a .362 OBP. That really screams "grinder" to me. Have you ever seen Rivera play a game, seriously? The year (2004) before Jermaine Dye came on board with the Sox. 532 at-bats, 23 homers (the same number that Rivera hit in 84 less AB's), 80 RBI's, .793 OPS and a .329 OBP. Who's the grinder, now? Only the guy who has led the majors in homers for RFers cumulatively for the last four seasons. Almost the same exact age as JD came over here, if we were to obtain Rivera. It's not always stats, it's identifying the players who have the most upside when their value is at its lowest.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:04 PM) The jury isnt out at all. No scouts talked about either of those guys like they talk about Poreda, its apples and oranges once again, which seems to be your best technique to make your point. Stop it with Borbon, its not gonna happen and is a terrible trade for us. We could get a ton more value for Jenks and Poreda. So you're on the record that Poreda will be a 3 starter or above at the big league level, yes? Because if not, giving up two relievers for a starting CFer and leadoff hitter under your control affordably for six years isn't such a bad move after all. Sure, we could trade for Matt Kemp or Nate McLouth, but that would cost us even more.

Well, I don't think Hawk will be forgetting to fawn over Carlos Gomez when we're playing the Twins if Getz or Lillibridge are our leadoff hitters for significant chunks of 2009. I don't think anyone can mention those names with 100% confidence...it's like a dart you throw at the wall and hope will stick, like batting Swisher there. Getz, from everything I've read, is the perfect 2 hitter, just like Cabrera would/could have been had we other options at leadoff.

That's all fine and good, but we didn't get back Morton or Reyes. They would be interested in Poreda for sure, but the likes of Richard, Broadway and Ely? Not so much...at least not as the centerpieces of any Peavy trade. I would gladly give them Poreda, Richard, Broadway and Ely and it still wouldn't be enough to get the deal done.

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:53 AM) So Juan Rivera is going to lead off and play CF after shattering his leg, posting a .282 OBP, and playing one game in center over the last 2 years? Cool. NO, NO, NO!!! Who said anything about CF? Nobody that I can see. I want Borbon from the Rangers for CF...Rivera would play LF, Quentin would shift to RF with the likely Dye trade. Remember someone else who shattered his leg even worse, came over here on a "value" contract and proceeded to become a Top 5 AL MVP caliber player. A guy by the name of Jermaine Dye, hopefully that rings a bell. Wish we could look at the thread the day he was signed, I'm sure there were many similar comments to the ones being made about Rivera, although I'll grant you JD was a better player than Rivera was before they each broke their legs. Similar ages and everything. And Rivera would put up 30 homers playing 81 games at USCF.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:52 AM) If by Guillen type of player you mean someone he would bury on the bench, then ok. And KW will give you a legit answer within the month, so stay tuned. I bet it wont be Julio Borbon for a top closer and our best pitching prospect though. No, he's the type of player (unlike Swisher and Cabrera) who would fit in perfectly with our current clubhouse. Best pitching prospect? Well, recently, that's been the likes of Lance Broadway or Adam Russell. The jury is still out on Mr. Poreda. I hope he makes it as a starter and becomes the next Scott Kazmir and we forget about Porcello for a week or two. But I'm not counting my chickens until they're hatched here.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:49 AM) Rivera can also play all 3 outfield positions well and has a cannon for an arm. I've seen a lot of Rivera over the years and I know damn well that if he's healthy, he's a productive outfielder and would be a very nice value pickup. The Angels are planning on bringing him back though, but I think he'd welcome the opportunity from another team since the Angels have so many outfielders. Rivera is a FA now, is he not?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:47 AM) Apples and oranges. Quentin was a top prospect, much higher rated than Borbon. Trading Jenks for him is very stupid. Rivera is not good. He is 30 years old, has been declining, and isnt much better if better at all than what we have on our club right now. Once again, I want someone to give me a legitimate option for CF and leadoff...and what you'd realistically give up to get that player. Rivera is a Guillen type of player...

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:40 AM) Agreed. Poreda for Borbon would be a deal the Rangers would consider making. Why in god sakes would you also include Jenks. Thanks but no thanks. Why would the Rangers want a LH reliever for someone who can be a starting CFer? I think we're overvaluing Aaron Poreda way too much here, and undervaluing Josh Fields.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:32 AM) I think I just puked on my computer. Rivera=terrible. If I wanted a sub .300 OBP and a sub .800 OPSfrom a corner OF'er, why wouldnt I fill that from within? Jenks Poreda and Anderson for Borbon=an awful trade. Why would we trade one of our top spects and a good closer for the Ranger's #8 spect? Because of his 2006 season. Click on link. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4956 When he's been healthy, Rivera has been a VERY productive player. And let's face it, KW signs players like this before he goes out to spend money on a Dunn, Ibanez, Burrell or Abreu. That's just not Kenny Williams. Signing Rivera is, because he would sign for only two years and he would be a very affordable option. Who would our internal candidates be for LF, if we traded Dye? Fields or Viciedo? We don't have anyone but Owens and Wise that could play at the big league level. I don't care where Borbon is ranked...that doesn't matter to me. If it did, Iowa football would never win a single game based on their recruiting, except for possibly Northwestern on occasion. Quentin wasn't even going to make the team, and Alexei Ramirez was a combination of Ramon Santiago/Mario Mendoza and Miguel Cairo. Poreda is only REALLY valuable if he's going to be a starter. Adam Russell was also one of our top prospects and he's worth basically nothing now. Of course, Poreda is left-handed and throws a tick slower than Thornton, but there's a very mixed sentiment about his abilities as a starter. As I said, don't make the trade if you feel he can develop a 3rd pitch that's at least something that can be used 10-15% of the time to keep hitters off your fastball.

At first glance giving up Jenks and Poreda seems kind of crazy. On the other hand, the Rangers really need a closer, and I'm not convinced that Poreda will ever be a starter. If you feel it's 50/50 he can develop a 3rd pitcher or cutter, then you have to hold onto him, because lefty starter with his arm are golden. Then again, there are reports that his delivery has some flaws, that it's certainly not a smooth, repeatable motion like Matt Thornton's and that he might be an injury liability. Take all those things into consideration, I think you go out and get Borbon. I've watched Owens, Anderson, Mackowiak, Rowand, Griffey, Swisher, etc...trading away Webster, Rowand, Young and Reed. I just want to see a legit, everyday player with All-Star ability out there...Anderson has All-Star defensive ability, but I just don't see KW and Ozzie giving him a starting job with the White Sox again. And I wouldn't be shocked if he were traded, seeing the door swinging shut on Crede, Cabrera, Swisher and Logan...and some pointed and not so unsubtle jabs following those guys. The only one who's leaving on pretty "good" terms is Uribe.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:12 AM) I think they need to get a pitcher and Cfer as things stand right now. If you move Dye, than you need to get a pitcher, Cfer and another bat. That CF better fill the top of the order too. At that point I can live with giving Getz/Lillbridge/Nix the shot at 2B, Ramirez SS, and Fields/Viciedo/Betemeit 3B. Here's my scenario. Sign Juan Rivera for 2 years at a reasonable contract for LF (there's your other bat). Move Quentin over to RF. Trade Jenks, Poreda and Owens/Anderson for J. Borbon from the Rangers, solving your leadoff and CF problem. (only if KW feels strongly Poreda won't be a starter) Trade Dye for a young starting pitcher and possibly a second prospect (could be Jackson, Bailey, etc., whoever KW has his eye on) Keep Konerko and Thome together for one last season. Get ready to sign a veteran FA pitcher for the 4th/5th spot. Go with Fields/Viciedo/Betemit at 3B and Lillibridge/Getz/Nix/Betemit at 2B.

Fathom, I'll respond to your comment earlier. I think we can still compete THIS year with Borbon in the line-up in CF...Minnesota did it with Gomez, and I think Borbon will be a much better all-around player from everything I've seen, read and heard. Sure, we can also get a Taveras or Michael Bourne one-dimensional type, or simply platoon Owens/Anderson, Fields/Betemit and Lillibridge or Getz and Betemit at 2B. Nix, I think, will end up in AAA to start the season and try to rebuild his career. The White Sox have proven over the last 15 years we can find and replace closers fairly easily...for the chance to get an All-Star caliber CF who will be cheap/affordable for six years, at the cost of a closer whose salary is increasing and a pitcher in Poreda who may or may not have what it takes to be a starter, you make this kind of deal in a heartbeat. And we'll throw in BA or Owens just for good measure. Any time you can trade a reliever, even a closer for an everyday player up the middle (C, SS, CF), you have to give it strong consideration. Now this is all contingent on getting at least one veteran and another quality starting pitching prospect (like a Bailey or Edwin Jackson) back... A rotation of Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Jackson and a veteran fifth starter (FA signing) could easily take this division, possibly with Borbon and even Viciedo or Beckham playing key roles down the stretch.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:02 AM) I think he just knows that he pretty much has two spots, catcher and DH. In the NL he only had one spot which means if he was stuck behind a good catcher he might just not be able to get the opportunity (such as in Atlanta, where he was stuck behind McCann). Now not only could he come up as a catcher, but if the club already had a top notch catcher, he could make an impact as a DH. That's not the case with Flowers, of course. His power and strike-zone discipline were evident when he was hitting .288/.427/.494 at high Class A Myrtle Beach, and he already was one of Atlanta's best prospects, so his AFL performance won't rocket him up our list. Flowers still has a lot of work to do in all facets of catching, and he may never be McCann's equal as a defender. You never know how things will play out, so for now the Braves will keep him behind the plate, where he has the most value. If McCann remains entrenched once Flowers is ready for the majors, Flowers then could move to first base, though Casey Kotchman could provide an obstacle there. It would be a stretch to play Flowers on an outfield corner. from ask Baseball America.com

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:05 AM) Tim Brown over at Yahoo is saying Thome and Konerko are available as well... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-v...o&type=lgns I think this has to be a case of "what would these guys bring back?" rather than realistic possibilities of a trade going down, especially with Jim Thome. Konerko was thought to have a high likelihood to go if Swisher stayed at the beginning of the offseason...so I guess it comes down to who wants Texiera the most and if the Angels/Yankees are legitimately interested in Paulie as a fallback option? With Jenks, Dye and Konerko all being put on the market, though, it certainly makes for a very entertaing and surprising offseason filled with suspense and intrigue.