caulfield12

If you went by KW's comments, you'd have to insert Marquez at #5 (as the favorite), Owens starting in CF and Fields starting at 3B. As of today.

This really doesn't make much sense. How can Marquez be off the board, and Contreras won't even pitch until May in the big leagues, if not June? How can anyone be behind Lance Broadway? Contreras shouldn't be listed at all until he's ready to pitch...as he's not relevant yet. As Ozzie said about Joe Crede last year, talk about players on the roster that can help today, not maybe, not in the future. Jerry Owens will never, ever play RF for the White Sox, that's too funny. Shows the RF depth we have....which is really Carlos Quentin. I don't think Nix should be ahead of Lillibridge at 2B either...this must simply be because Lillibridge hasn't played there very much recently, as he's perceived at this point in his career as more of a SS. I would think that Link/Nunez/Wasserman/Russell/Jimenez are all about even for the last bullpen spot. It shows you the ? surrounding the back-up catching position. Armstrong? Miller? Stewart? Flowers? (Of course Flowers will be in minors, but it would be interesting to see who KW felt was the favorite at this point in the offseason there). And then Beckham hasn't been listed either, but that's certainly not a surprise.

I tried to watch it and turned it off quickly (Happy-Go-Lucky). Very annoying. Saw The House Bunny and Frost/Nixon (quite the contrast in movies!). Really liked Frost/Nixon, but the box office for that movie has been a disappointment...maybe political fatigue. Frank Langella was awesome though, much better than Anthony Hopkins I think in the Oliver Stone movie.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 18, 2009 -> 02:26 PM) Sox pitchers, namely Mark Buehrle, never perform well in these types of simulations or predictions because they use several sabermetric statistics in making their standings and Buehrle, like most Sox pitchers, never holds up well in these. Vazquez was always considered the Sox best pitcher using just raw numbers, but that never works. That's probably one of the biggest reasons why. How could you project a team coming off a 110-64 stretch to be an 82-80 squad in 2006? Did the computers not watch that season's playoff games? Guess not. Apparently the computers automatically predicted our pitching staff would regress, but with all the talent/money added to payroll, I would have a hard time imagining any HUMAN BEING picking the White Sox for less than 88-90 wins coming off that World Series championship.

But he (Hudson) does cost a #1 draft pick. I'm not so sure KW wouldn't rather get Konerko's money off the book AND add Figgins (leaving the possibility of netting another #1 draft pick after 2009 or re-signing Figgins, like the Cabrera situation). All things being equal, I think you're right, signing Hudson would be more helpful in the short-term, but trading Konerko for Figgins seems to be more of a "long term" foundational move that KW has been making now. I would much prefer to give up Konerko than Dye, because I think it would be easier to find a replacement at cheaper numbers at that position. Furthermore, you could always gamble that you would get better production with Abreu or Dunn at $10 million than Konerko, and also have Hudson probably. Interesting scenarios, neither which is likely to play out in all likelihood. The Nationals seem to be the ticket destination for Hudson at this point in the proceedings. The Orioles have their ears open Brian Roberts, whose trade value has diminished as he nears free agency. The White Sox can't afford him, the Braves are reluctant to give up talent, and the Cubs didn't discuss him in the Felix Pie talks. The Roberts market may improve once Orlando Hudson signs. Rosenthal's source says the Michael Young-Jermaine Dye discussions did take place. If you read Dave van Dyck's article, Ken Williams never specifically denied talks with the Rangers. mlttraderumors.com This whole thing about the White Sox not being able to afford him is getting irritating. I guess I was lulled into a false sense of security as a White Sox fan by our payrolls over the last 3 years and thought we were on our way to being a legitimate "big market" and not mid-market club. Oh, well. Supposedly Dunn will be signing a contract for $5 million!!! Yet the number you keep hearing is that he's looking for $56 million and 4 years. It will be very interesting to see what the final numbers and length (if it's longer than one year) are.

Hopefully his power numbers and NOT his weight/caloric intake!!! I'm guardedly/cautiously optimistic that Herm and Alan Regier can really work hard with Viciedo, Contreras and Colon to get the best out of each of them.

I just can't see signing Hudson. Trading would have to get rid of Konerko/Dye and getting rid of Dye/Konerko. There would be no way to remain revenue-neutral if we traded Floyd and even were asked to bring in someone else like Mora as part of a larger deal. The only way would be to trade Dye/Konerko for younger pitching and/or Top 25 level minor league prospect in High A/AA ball. Then you could flip flop salaries and bring in someone like Hudson/Roberts and especially Figgins (cheapest option). Although from all the talk around the Net, Hudson might be forced to take $7-9 million for one season, maybe even a tick less. This argument keeps going around in circles....Lillibridge, Owens, Getz. It seems we're stuck with the idea that if we don't add a leadoff hitter, Owens has to play, bat first and leadoff. Therefore, Anderson is SOL. At least for now. Maybe he can finally take the job in ST or Owens will be hampered by lingering injuries again. It will be interesting, to say the least. I don't think most posters here expected to see BA still around here after the conclusion of the 2006 season. Here we are 2 years later.

I would expect he was at least 85-88, maybe 89 sometimes...is there a tape/replay of that game with the radar readings anywhere?

We would have to trade two Jenks(es)....because he will only make around $5 million or so in arbitration, Garland is looking for at least double that. Garland won't be coming here, I'm fairly certain of that. Garcia, maybe.

I disagree somewhat on that one...watching players like Buehrle, DeRosa, Uribe, Iguchi...on a consistent basis, you have a lot MORE of an appreciation for them than you ever would just looking at box scores or stats.

There's rumor/s that there was a "handshake agreement" in place between KW and Gillick, that the Phillies would also pick up the tab for nearly half of the option year, but this was never publicly illuminated from what I've read. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense from the Phillies' standpoint to expose themselves to further financial losses on a "bad" contract, but I've seen this story a number of times from different posters on different boards. Maybe it has become an urban legend by now!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,239430.column Latest Phil Rogers column, about fiscal responsibility of the Dodgers and White Sox this offseason. By the way, is the $92-94 million payroll figure taking into account the money the Phillies are supposedly sending for Thome? If not, our "real" payroll is essentially down in the $85-90 million range. Maybe it doesn't include Viciedo's signing bonus, though...which has been equated by KW to Swisher's 2009 contract in terms of a tit-for-tat replacement. Finally, Rogers mentions 3B Javier Castillo (a name I don't think I've seen once) as a sleeper/darkhorse candidate for the position. I'll stick with Eider Torres as my darkhorse, although he's have to beat our either Betemit or Lillibridge. I'm sure the first one won't happen (since KW is our GM), but maybe the second one will and Lillibridge will end up the starting SS in Charlotte, or starting CF (although, from everything you read, he would be most valuable as a trade chip with other organizations at SS).

The biggest plus about Hudson is his infield defense. If we're going to move him to the OF, he's a "marginal" liability or so-so at $8-10 million per season....better to get Chone Figgins at $5.75 mil if we plan on making Hudson a LF or CF so he can hit leadoff.

As I said earlier, with the extra rest for his arm, I think Jose has a really good chance to get his fastball back up in the 93-96 MPH range again...which will make his forkball the devastating weapon it was in 05/06 and for the first half of the 08 season until injuries took their toll and he tried to pitch through pain. His inability to hold runners, slow delivery and the amount of time he takes to warm-up properly mitigate against any kind of bullpen move. I think he might even end up pushing Floyd back to #5, along with Colon (if he's healthy/motivated).

Kris Benson is going to throw for scouts next Saturday, and in the week after that, it's likely that Mark Mulder -- who, like Benson, is represented by agent Gregg Clifton -- will throw off a mound for scouts. Two advance scouts say that they think Mulder could be the hidden gem of this free-agent class, because if he can restore his arm angle -- and that's been the focus of his offseason work -- he could be a very effective pitcher for relatively little money. www.mlbtraderumors.com

QUOTE (Sec101Row1 @ Jan 16, 2009 -> 10:23 PM) F/A pitchers available as of 1/16/09 Kris Benson (33) Paul Byrd (38) - Type B, offered arb Roger Clemens (46) Josh Fogg (32) Freddy Garcia (33) Jon Garland (29) - Type B, offered arb Tom Glavine (43) Charlie Haeger (25) Livan Hernandez (34) Orlando Hernandez (43) Chuck James (27) Jason Jennings (30) Jon Lieber (39) Braden Looper (34) - Type B, not offered arb Rodrigo Lopez (33) Pedro Martinez (37) Mark Mulder (31) John Parrish (31) Odalis Perez (32) Oliver Perez (27) - Type A, offered arb Andy Pettitte (37) - Type A, not offered arb Sidney Ponson (32) Kenny Rogers (44) Curt Schilling (42) Ben Sheets (30) - Type A, offered arb Kip Wells (32) Randy Wolf (32) - Type B, not offered arb Kris Benson (33) 3-4 teams are showing interest Paul Byrd (38) - Type B, offered arb (is now talking about mid-season comeback with playoff team, supposedly turned down $8 million for one year to spend time with family) Josh Fogg (32) Freddy Garcia (33) Mets/White Sox/Rangers Jon Garland (29) - Type B, offered arb Tom Glavine (43) post-op, will go back to Braves or probably retire Charlie Haeger (25) Livan Hernandez (34) is there any way he's really just 34? Orlando Hernandez (43) is he 50 now? Chuck James (27) once a top Braves prospect who was rushed, along with Kyle Davies Jason Jennings (30) Jon Lieber (39) Braden Looper (34) - Type B, not offered arb KW should be looking at him closely Rodrigo Lopez (33) Pedro Martinez (37) KW should be looking at him closely Mark Mulder (31) if the medical reports are positive, another low-risk/high-reward type guy with lots of playoff experience John Parrish (31) Tigers are looking at him as swing man and spot starter Odalis Perez (32) Oliver Perez (27) - Type A, offered arb Mets? around $30 million for 3 years Andy Pettitte (37) - Type A, not offered arb will either retire a Yankee or accept their $10 million offer for one season Sidney Ponson (32) is he really just 32, seems like he's been around forever? Kenny Rogers (44) will probably retire Curt Schilling (42) ditto Ben Sheets (30) - Type A, offered arb, the most interesting pitcher left on the market today, will get around $12-13 million for one year Kip Wells (32) Randy Wolf (32) - Type B, not offered arb, another second-tier starter who had great 2nd half, looking at $7-9 million, or $15-16 million/2 years Yadel Marti (29) CUBA Tony Armas, Jr.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2009 -> 05:30 AM) You mention someone doesn't "know the game well enough", and you cite some crazy stats that have a pitcher who was : 11-12 4.84 ERA for a team that won 90 games 15-8 3.74 ERA for a team that lost 90 games 12-16 4.67 ERA for a team that won a division worth almost $30 million a year for those 3 years. In other words, if he was paid what your crazy stats think he should be paid, Javy Vazquez basically should be the highest paid player in baseball history on the basis of a 38-36 record with a 4.40 ERA. You even have his 2006 performance worth more than his 2007 performance. I figure I have a little bit of knowledge when it comes to baseball, and just by looking at stats and the games, I would think Javy was much better in 2007 than he was in 2006. Jon Garland on the other hand was 18-7 4.51 ERA 10-13 4.23 ERA 14-8 4.90 ERA According to your fine stats and "knowledge of the game" Garland's 42-28 record and 4.54 ERA over the same time (during the 3 seasons Garland pitched 11 total fewer innings than Vazquez and gave up 4 more earned runs) those numbers are "worth" $20 million a year less than Vazquez. An average of 3 2/3 innings a year and 1.3 runs a year, is worth $20 million . In fact, pitching on the same team in 2006, Garland's 18-7 4.51 vs. Vazquez 11-12 4.84 is worth $12 million less. LOL. Nice stats. According to you 14-8 4.90 ERA worth 1.92 million if its Jon Garland, 12-16 4.67 ERA worth 27.84 million if you're Javy Vazquez. I don't think there are many that understand that game. Scott Boras has his eye on you. If he ever takes over for Trump on "The Apprentice", you would have to be a favorite. That has to be from either Vazquez's agent, or the person inside the Atlanta FO who will go down in flames along with Frank Wren if Vazquez flames out and Flowers and Lillibridge both become starters or All-Stars...and in 2011/12, Rodriguez and Gilmore.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 17, 2009 -> 08:30 AM) I bet that he once shook hands with Ponce DeLeon. Maybe you're thinking of Jose DeLeon... Hahaha.

I think Jose will come back sometime in May or early June when the weather and conditions are ideal/perfect. They'll keep him in Arizona for extended spring training. We now also have an insight into why KW hasn't spent money on the FA pitching market. He had reasons to be more optimistic than most of us were about Contreras coming back in 2009. I actually think he might be better than a 4/5 guy...with that extra time of rest/relaxation for his arm, I expect that his fastball will be back at 94-95 MPH more consistently. That power fastball will help to better set up the forkball and offspeed stuff as well. So what we've done is traded Javier Vazquez and his $11.5 million for Colon ($1-3 million), Flowers, Santos Rodriguez (power lefty), Gilmore, Lillibridge and IN ESSENCE, Marquez/Nunez/Viciedo/Betemit. We can revisit the results after 2010 (LOL), but we've traded two players most Sox fans didn't even want on the team going into the offseason, and now have: Colon and Marquez (two candidates for 4th/5th starter) Flowers, hopefully our future All-Star catcher Santos Rodriguez, a left hander with a lot potential another Iowa kid who might turn out just as good as Sweeney (Gilmore) Lillibridge (could be our starting CF, 2B, or SS) Nunez (power righty out of the pen that KW thinks will have an impact) Betemit (our supersub who will be much more cost-efficient than Punto or Uribe) And taking Swisher off the payroll gave KW the flexibility to bring in Viciedo, who could have the biggest impact of all We've gotten rid of 2 players we didn't want and replaced them with 9 players, and we've lowered our payroll at the same time...I think that's the mark of a GM that saw the future clouds rolling in and beat the market...now we'll see what the Yankees can get for Nady or Swisher! Not only that, but we now have 8 young/affordable players that fit better into our future and help refresh/revitalize our organization moving forward.

I still think the simplest explanation is that we've had very few high first round draft picks since the time of Ventura, Thomas, McDowell and Alex Fernandez. Of course, we can look draft by draft and see obvious examples (Broadway over Garza), Royce Ring, Jason Stumm, Honel, etc. The one really big impact bat that simply didn't develop was Borchard. If we could have had a power-hitting, lefthanded RFer from 2003-2008, it would have made a huge impact on this organization, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. The irony is that we were able to unload Borchard for another team's unrealized first round potential in Matt Thornton, just as we'd earlier found our lefthander of the first half of the decade in Damaso Marte. Both turned out to be high impact trades that were barely blurbs in Baseball America.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jan 16, 2009 -> 10:34 PM) Greg Walker was quoted I believe last season saying that going into the 2006 season the Sox knew Brian had huge problems with his swing but chose not to do anything about it, instead letting him try to just get by on natural ability. So the GM knew he wasn't ready yet still didn't acquire a veteran replacement, then the hitting coach chose to ignore Brian's problems, and then Ozzie threw him under the bus for not hitting, even after he said repeatedly in ST that all Anderson had to do was play defense. I'm not making excuses for Brian, but the Sox set him up to fail. They knew he wasn't going to hit and they knew he needed to put in a lot of work in order to hit, and instead of having Brian work on his swing in Triple A and trade for or sign an adequate replacement - the Sox spent I think something like $7M that year on Cintron, Mackowiak, and Widger/Alomar when that could have gone to a CF - they instead decided to go with a plan that they already thought was going to fail. I hope the BA in 2006 experiment was part of an old, bad philosophy that no longer exists and that the Sox have learned their lessons by now. If you don't think your minor league hitters are capable of hitting Major League pitching then don't call them up. Bring in a cheap veteran instead if you have to. But I do remember that they were even saying into June/July that it didn't matter how well he hit....as long as he played good defense. You expect a first round draft pick with a PAC 10 background to be on a pretty fast track. The White Sox perhaps overestimated him (making the trades of Rowand, Webster, Reed and Young and keeping Anderson)...but he SHOULD have been ready. The fact is that it seems Brian Anderson might ALWAYS have that problem with his swing, just like Borchard did, and just like many feel Fields MIGHT have, although his 2007 results were better than anything BA produced...certainly over an extended period of time. If nothing else, the White Sox have learned that drafting "athletically-gifted/raw" players like Borchard, Brian West, Fields and Anderson perhaps wasn't the best approach...that projecting them, instead of targeting stars like Reed (2nd round) and Beckham, was too much of a hit or miss type of strategy.

It's down to the Mets, Rangers and White Sox. Yankees are out. Looks like he is even willing to take a minor league deal, as long as they give him an opportunity to make the major league rotation out of spring training.

Nunez or Jimenez (from Blue Jays) DJ Carasco (everyone keeps forgetting about him) Eider Torres (utility INF) Armstrong/Stewart/Miller (one of them will have a breakthrough) Russell or Wasserman

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 16, 2009 -> 06:38 PM) Pie won't be released. Some team will give up something for him. As far as the criticism the Cubs are getting on here for "giving up" on him, when you are trying to win how long of a rope do you give a guy? If Lillibridge, Getz, Fields, Owens start out hitting .220 in 50 AB, I'm sure many here including me will be calling for a replacement. The one area I may think differently on, is the Cubs should have some room to work with in their division. You'd think they would want to give Pie another shot at least before cutting the cord, unless they are totally convinced he will never hit. Its not like the Reed Johnson/Fukudome platoon currently planned for CF is of all star calibur. The argument against that is someone like Alexei Ramirez. He was hitting closer to .110 than .220, yet KW and Ozzie kept showing faith in him and eventually it was rewarded. When Anderson had the same opportunity in 2006, he never really took advantage, and they had done everything humanly possibly to take the pressure off of him.

QUOTE (scenario @ Jan 16, 2009 -> 03:03 PM) Except that Pie is 3 years younger than Brian. Seems bizarre that the Cubs would stick a fork in the guy at 23 years old. Then, on the other hand, you have organizations still willing to give Corey Patterson a shot. The NFL is more merciless...think Maurice Clarett.