caulfield12

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 11:35 PM) Based on the AJC report it sounds like we got one stud (flowers) one reclamation project (Lillebridge) and then two other high ceiling prospects in this deal. That sounds like quite a haul for a pretty middling pitcher, I gotta give the edge to KW in this trade for sure. Like the Pods/Lee deal, the biggest question is WHERE, and IF ANYWHERE, the money goes? I think raising ticket prices 11% and drastically cutting payroll would not be well-received. There's obviously 2-3 more "pretty big" moves to be made to complete the puzzle.

But what skills would Lillibridge have in CF that would be consided "plus" tools for a MLB player at that position? I think he will get a LONG look, simply because so far he's the only player capable of having an impact on the roster for 2009. And, for whatever reason, KW's trade acquisitions always seem to get their fair share of time before they are declared failures. We've gone from having not enough depth to TOO MUCH, haha! The following players will all be hard-pressed to make the Opening Day roster. Lillibridge/Nix/Getz (Betemit seems assured of a spot) Beckham Jord. Danks Shelby Allen Marquez/Egbert/Richard/Poreda/McCulloch/Broadway Owens/Anderson/Wise Viciedo/Fields RP Nunez (from Yankees) Link/Russell Flowers/Armstrong That's not a bad depth chart at all. We should have some very good teams in AA and AAA with legit prospects for the first time in awhile.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 11:25 PM) He's incredibly overrated by this board, IMO. The only real need he addresses for us is in CF. He's not a leadoff hitter at all. .315 OBP and a .248 BA isn't too hot, nor are his 165 K's. He has good power and speed, but was only 14/19 in SB. Pretty damn good defensively though. But, for winning it all this year, and only this year, would you have rather this package or Young? That's the question also, because KW, until this trade at least, was typically more "win this season" oriented than long-term/long-range development. Of course, he certainly has some new toys in the sandbox to move to get the impact player/s he really has his eye on I think. Also, considering how much we have struggled to either get results from BA, sign a FA (Hunter, Fukudome, Rowand, etc.) or plugging in the likes of Mackowiak, Swisher and Griffey...I think his position on the field carries an additional premium with it that's hard not to acknowledge looking at the Sox CF results in 2006. 2007 and 2008.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 11:20 PM) Good info SEAL... One great thing I hear? THe kid will do whatever it takes to get to the show. The bad? We're already talking DH...for a prospect? I want people who can prevent the other people from scoring runs as well. It's all good, I like the deal...I am not crying for joy, but am far from upset with this deal. It's very obvious only Lillebridge has a shot at coming to Chicago for next season and he is the guy I am very happy about getting...a great acqusition and he's going to win a lot of people over, a typical KW move...grab a talented player kinda out of favor with current club. We got Quentin, Thornton, Floyd for a song and dance...they have been awesome (at least so far)...what Lillebridge follow suit. Lillibridge has to be the favorite to be the starting 2B at this point, one would assume...Betemit's a defensive liability it seems as an everyday player, Nix has a ton to prove at the MLB level and so does Getz. All things considered, we have REALLY good infield depth. The big question though is SS...yeah, we have Alexei, and Beckham, and Lillibridge, and Betemit....but can any of them play the position adequately enough from a defensively standpoint? Of course, KW and most of the fanbase is betting on Alexei getting the job done, and I think that's an 85-90% probability he'll be perfectly fine over there.

Just curious....playing Devil's Advocate on KW. Would anyone take back Chris Young to be the everyday starting CFer (maybe we signed Furcal too to hit leadoff, don't really want Young there)...for this package we have just received? Would you rather have 3-4 fairly promising players/prospects/suspects or YOUNG? Discuss at your own convenience.

Well, no dout Abreu's a better defender....and moving Dye and having Quentin and Abreu on the corners would make more sense from a defensive standpoint. I just don't think Abreu's numbers over the last couple of seasons and his age justify a big investment, and I do think he will get at least a 3 year commitment from some team out there, not sure which, but it will probably happen.

You're taking something of a gamble hoping Dunn can adjust to the AL quickly, but that also would give us pretty perfect L/R balance in the middle of the order. Dunn at least is still pretty close to the prime of his career. Once again, not much interest in Abreu at anything over $10 million per season at this point in his career. For that matter, I'd ALMOST rather have Ibanez than Abreu, although it would be a toss-up. Depends, of course of money and number of years.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:14 PM) that would be pretty nice...especially if we could get a young pitcher + another prospect for dye...theres an awful lot of on base ability in that lineup with dunn, thome, quentin...i wouldnt sweat the K's too much though, but you are right, dunn, fields thome and alexei could help lead that team to mlb records in Ks...whatever though..my personal feelings towards Ks are rather well documented around here, so it wouldnt bother me too much Viciedo figures in here somewhere too as a power source for sure... I don't think Abreu (age, will want $45/3 years) and Dunn (too one dimensional for KW's new "vision") are the best fits. I think someone like Juan Rivera (if Dye is indeed traded) makes the best sense for 2 years in LF.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:06 PM) well, we mustn't forget that we did sign Viciedo, which is what, about 2 million? If we trade Dye, I'd guess we'd be looking at something between 30-35 million off of the books. $11 million for 5 years, so $2.2 million theoretically...we haven't really seen the "details" of the official contract, as it has yet to be signed, right? Speaking of Viciedo, have there been any updates on when he gets cleared to re-enter the US?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:04 PM) lol, I kind of jumbled my thoughts there. A lot of going on today. I doubt we'd go and sign both Furcal and Dunn. I was just thinking I would love to get Dunn, but if that were the scenario, Furcal would be unlikely. However, if I want to get my ps3 up and running... 1. Furcal, SS 2. Ramirez, CF 3. Quentin, RF 4. Thome, DH 5. Konerko, 1B 6. Dunn, LF 7. Fields/Betemit, 3B 8. Pierzynski, C 9. Getz/Lillibridge, 2B That's a nice lookin' lineup right there, if you ask me. The only problem is that your looking at probably at least 250 K's, but likely more, from the 5 and 6 spots together. Or a 2 year deal for Manny Ramirez to play LF and DH occasionally, with Quentin moved to RF in the reported Dye trade. Can you imagine Manny, Quentin, Thome and Konerko as the middle of the line-up? Doubt it would happen, but nice to dream. And I wouldn't count out either Nix or Viciedo quite yet.

We can't give Furcal four years at $10 million plus per season...at his age, and with his injury history. Three, maybe, maybe it's possible....he supposedly had a legit offer for 3 years and $39 million, and the Dodgers refused to match it, even though he was/is one of Torre's favorite players.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:54 PM) Bailey might work to replace Richard.... I think we can't just assume every pitching prospect we take on has the success of Danks and Floyd so far. It's just against mathematical probability.

With the Braves' new "mid market" financial mindset and Vazquez's "arguably unreasonable" contract to be a 4th starter...I think we're looking pretty good with this deal. It was obvious we had to get rid of Swisher and Vazquez, along with Cabrera, Crede and Uribe. Our roster is already 20% different and we're just getting started. The question is whether we cut deeper and deal Dye and/or Jenks.

Well....you're putting an AWFUL lot of pressure on Don Cooper to go with Bailey and another youngster at the back end. I think they have to find someone from that group that includes Pedro, Randy Johnson, Garcia (if they check his health), Colon, Mulder, Duchscherer, Schilling, etc.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:44 PM) Anybody else feel a trade for Gio Gonzalez coming? Cooper can STILL fix him. As long as it's not for Carl Everett or Roberto Alomar, or Sandy Alomar for that matter.

Well, the obvious concern now becomes the rotation. Maybe they know something about Contreras' comeback we don't, but that is still not the long-term solution. Right now, our last two spots in the rotation are filled with Richard/Poreda/Carrasco/Marquez/Broadway/Egbert and any other names you want to throw in there. It certainly puts some pressure on KW to sign a FA fifth starter from the scrap heap, because other teams are going to see our obvious position of weakness...we've gone from 6 starters to 3 now, and I'm sure that makes Williams feel a little insecure. Interesting the Angels offered Garland arbitration...sort of a surprise, but maybe not.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:07 PM) I'm still hearing Morton, although those two are on the "list". KW wants a starter in return as well. BTW, our vacant 2B spot has an open competition between Lilli, Getz and Nix. Pretty good talent there. Not to mention Betemit as well.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 12:21 AM) Really? Broadway and McCullough were joke picks, not worthy of the spot taht we took them. Yes, many prospects will fail, thats baseball, but alot will contribute in some way, especially with Kenny liking to trade them. Of course, they need to have talent still to have value, these higher picks allow the Sox to get those talented players, and with the new scouting/development people in place I expect much better drafting to help build for the future. Will it always work out? No. But I would rather have mroe draft picks, higher ones, because you increase not only the number of prospects you can trade, but also the likeliness that they will contribute on the big league team. That was a big mistake. We could have had Matt Garza there...the Twins outsmarted us on that one.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) In-conference SOS. It's not fair either as you can't control the schedule, but at least you are using something within league play to determine who advances. Well, then OU would have had no benefit at all to play and beat Cincy and TCU. Essentially then, the only fair way would be eliminating all but 1-2 non-conference games/cupcakes and playing full home and away league schedules. Every team would just schedule the Sister of the Poor and the Washington Generals if the SOS didn't matter to the computers in the end, which it did...especially rebalancing the final weekend.

Now we're saying that Taveras is being overvalued by the Rockies, even though he ended up as a bench player. Many here would rather have Brian Anderson starting than Taveras...maybe KW will trade them straight up for each other. Or maybe Owens for Taveras, as some believe Owens will have a better career from here on out. In the end, if you don't appreciate Taveras' skill set and what he brings to the table, then the only thing that will convince you is watching Getz fail before we come back to this thread in the future and everyone is complaining about why KW didn't get a "legit" leadoff hitter in the offseason, instead of being hung out to dry mid-year by another GM (due to desperation)!

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 09:54 PM) Luck? When your top offensive comparison is Alex Cole, and a series of no hit/speedy guys you make your own luck! Alex Cole had a lifetime .360 OBP in the majors and a .711 OPS. I think we would have taken that out of Orlando Cabrera last season in a heartbeat...

QUOTE (KevinM @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 09:48 PM) I'm still waiting for a compelling argument against luck. Actually watching the guy play would be one...instead of arguing completely based on 2008 and BABIP or whatever. Obama is more likely to name Osama bin Laden Director of the Department of Homeland Security than KW is to go into Opening Day with Getz/Anderson/Ramirez leading off. I can see the arguments for Owens, let's say they are "roughly equivalent," just for argument's sake. But why wouldn't you want to have additional insurance...seeing how costly it is to go out and get a top leadoff hitter/CFer? How would/could it hurt? Wouldn't it be better to have Taveras as the 4th/5th outfielder than to have Broadway, McCulloch or Russell wasting away in AAA? What's the next argument, that would mean DeWayne Wise wouldn't be on the team? That Wise is better than Taveras? Well, let's make DeWayne Wise the starting CFer and bat him leadoff. Problem solved...it's as logical as anything in this thread.

Stand down, Taveras detractors! Wave the White Flag and we will cease and desist our efforts.

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 03:25 PM) Danks has Buehrle to thank, IIRC. Darn it, Buehrle. Why can't you teach Russell and Poreda the cutter, too!!!! Maybe we can bring back Loaiza as an adjunct pitching coach just to teach that specific pitch to our youngsters, along with Champion and Cooper.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 08:08 PM) Good Luck. A friend of mine is in Cambodia and was supposed to fly out yesterday ending her research. However she is not sure when she can leave. Her lease was up and she was lucky to be able to stay with some other archaeologists. She isn't very optimistic about being able to return any time soon. I was just in Phnom Penh about a month ago. Cambodia is a very beautiful country...especially Angkor Wat/Siem Reap. However, nothing really prepares you for the "Killing Fields," it was almost as spooky to me as Auschwitz. http://www.terragalleria.com/asia/cambodia...e.camb2951.html This commercial break from the subprime mortgage crisis, Taveras debate, "recession" and Obama cabinet announcements brought to you by IBEW and Alex and Ursula Snelius.