caulfield12

With Uribe getting further decreased playing time in 09, I don't think it would make any sense to keep him around hoping to get a compensation pick. Thanks for the memories, Juan. I never missed Aaron Miles like some of his grinder groupies.

QUOTE (thomsonmi @ Nov 14, 2008 -> 12:33 AM) A whole bunch of them were acquired with players whom KW did draft. Criticizing KW because we don't have enough homegrown Credes/Rowands/Buehrle's to cheer on for ten years or so as they develop in our system is kind of getting a little bit nitpicky. Sure, I'd like to have Chris Young patrolling CF as much as the next person...but KW has always done a very good job of realistically appraising what he has on his 25 man, 40 man and minor league depth charts (the Big Board) and using those chess pieces to help him put together the most competitive team each season. When it looked like he needed to rebuild, he kept Dye/Buehrle and had the magic touch with bringing in four incredibly talented young players to revitalize our core. Turning Borchard into Thornton, getting Jenks for nothing, Ramirez for nothing (when all the other teams were laughing at us behind our backs....we'll see the laughing now about Viciedo, NOT!)...Garcia for Morse/Reed/Olivo, he's just been very, very efficient at identifying the players he likes and going out to acquire them. Perhaps, in my opinion, the most important move of his GM career was bringing over Contreras, because he was the horse/ace that this team has very rarely had in the last decade. Contreras, for a 4-5 month stretch of 05/06, was undoubtedly the best pitcher in baseball. Whether it has worked (Marte for Guerrier) or not (David Wells, Colon, Ritchie, Swisher, Cabrera, Alex Cintron, Mackowiak), he always is thinking almost like a fan and less of a GM. That can be a weakness, but I see it as a strength as well. He's also learned the importance of pitching depth and balance (speed/defense), and you'll see him correct the 06-07 errors going forward...

I have changed over the years from KW skeptic to supporter. The 2005 WS championship had something to do with it, of course, but he's also gotten better as time as gone by...not shaking up things or making trades just to be aggressive, but thinking strategically and more long-term, rather than just putting the best possible team together to win the World Series each season (he's also learned that for every Ramirez/Quentin, there are many more Julio Ramirezes, D'Angelo Jimenezes, Royce Clayton's or Kenny Lofton's that can seriously mess up your clubhouse chemistry...you can add O-Cab and Swisher to that list as well). If I wasn't convinced before, the transition from 07 to 08 really did the trick. He's earned our respect and patience/confidence. We have to sit back and see what happens before Spring Training...but, as always, a premature rush to conclusions does no good. In the early years, he had some bad trades like the Ritchie one, Adkins for Durham, Berry/Barry disaster with the LA Dodgers...but he's gotten better and better. If you look at all the players we've jettisoned over the years, which ones would definitely make our ballclub in 2009? I can think of only a couple...Frank Francisco out of the bullpen as a set-up guy (potential closer) and Ryan Sweeney, who I'd take over Anderson/Wise, etc., as the fourth outfielder, but not as the starter in CF. Other than those two names...and Chris B. Young (that trade has been argued to death, I've always been on the side of Chris Young over Javy)...who have we actually lost? Rauch? Well, he was a failed starter, and there were a lot of chemistry/personality issues with the front office behind the scenes...the return from his labrum injury (he didn't work with Sox staff/trainers like he was expected to), his "overconfidence" when he was barely touching 90 MPH yet thinking he should have a spot in the rotation. McCarthy? Besides that, you have Rowand/Thome, but I think we're better off with Jim's big LH bat...and that homer against the Twinkies will always hold a special place in our hearts now.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:36 PM) like Floyd, Marquez has been pitching in the Arizona Fall League. Kenny Williams and his top scouts are out there watching. I'm sure they had Coop or Kirk Champion take a look. they must see something they like. And they must be convinced Swish can't cut it no mo. Kenny laid it on pretty thick about how he expects Swishy to bounce back. I just hope this doesn't trumpet the arrival of the Jerry Owens Era in CF. Not when Taveras is out there for Broadway or Adam Russell and CoCo Crisp (who KW has always liked) is available.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:20 PM) how about this from the New York Daily News: "The Yankees believe Swisher’s poor average was a function of a strained relationship with Chisox manager Ozzie Guillen, major-league sources said." Swishy no likey Ozzie. If true, we'll hear more because Swish likes to talk. But that must be the buzz among scouts. No secret that O-Cabrera and Swisher weren't great fans of Ozzie. Well, duh. But here's the thing, what does it tell you that Ozzie was starting DeWayne Wise over you in the most important games of the season? Ozzie will always have his detractors...but, when it comes down to it...he's managed to push the 2005 and 2008 teams over the hump when their backs were against the wall and many skeptical fans were giving them up for dead. Swisher, in many ways, his actions in the clubhouse and on the bench, acted like he had quit when he stopped playing everyday, and more like someone trying out for the daytime Emmy's or SNL. I don't think it's any surprise Hall is also out the door...there's a few things I'm sure we're not privy to (besides the reaction of Dye to the pie in the face one too many times)...but KW seems to be cleaning house and trying to get rid of the round pegs that don't fit into the square holes. Good luck in NY Nick, you'll need it.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 08:56 PM) Kazmir has been doing the same. Gimme a young Kazmir any day of the week. Are you really comparing Kazmir's stuff/ability with Gio Gonzalez? I think that Gio is closer to Arnie Munoz/Mike Porzio/Josh Stewart right now than Kazmir. He has a pretty good hook, but the Zito hype was a bit much. It's not as good as Gavin's when he is on...and his fastball tends to be pretty flat, and the velocity isn't all that overwhelming either.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:05 PM) Its a scouting report from 2005. It has his ETA as 2007. I'm thinking he hasn't lived up to the report. KW has hit the jackpot on a few pitchers, he's also crapped out on several. I think expecting either of the 2 guys acquired today to be contributors in 2009 is a reach. Nunez >>> Adam Russell for sure We'll see Nunez worked slowly into the bullpen, with the eventually idea that he becomes a replacement for Dotel. The White Sox can either sit on Dotel's contract and hope he doesn't hurt and we can get Type A compensation down the line...or we deal his salary, which is quite high for a set-up man, and trade him to a team desperate for a closer at below $10 million per season. Marquez will be given an opportunity to compete with Richard, Broadway, Carrasco, Egbert, etc., coming into ST. I mean, how many here really expected Gavin Floyd to explode on the scene after the way he ended up mentally a basket case in PHILLY? If you also thought Ramirez and Quentin would be ROY, All-Star, MVP caliber players for the Sox from the day we acquired them...well, there aren't very many posts to back that up. With Quentin and Danks, you knew the talent was there. Look at it this way...we have another arm (a former first rounder, just like Broadway or McCulloch) that another team was once really high on, in fact, he was considered a Top 10 prospect as little as one season ago. As BA noted, Nunez has the most upside. And Betemit might end up surprising a few people...it's not the like the guy's on the wrong side of 30, he's around Alexei's age, although he seems older because he's been a prospect for so long.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 08:47 PM) I'm telling you guys, Sweeney's gonna break out next year with a full year of pro-ball under his belt. He might not be some super star, but he'd be a solid piece on any team. I think he'd play great D in LF for us (He could play RF with his arm, but I like my LF's to throw lefty, and my RF's to throw righty), hit around .290 or higher, not K a ton, get a lot of doubles, hit at least 15 homers (if not in the 20's), and be a very solid run producer. Well, I guess it will be interesting to see who has more impact next season at the MLB level...Betemit, Nunez and Marquez, or Ryan Sweeney? I don't think we'll see Gio Gonzalez again as a starter again with the A's, maybe out of the bullpen. He didn't have one quality start. He did have a couple of nice outings, but his ERA reached almost 10 at one point. 6 IP, 4 ER (TOR) 5 IP, 1 ER (against TB, that's more impressive) 5 IP, 2 ER/4 R (at Seattle) But he really got his pitch count up...he just couldn't go deep into any of his starts, past 6.0 IP.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 07:49 PM) Well if this guy is supposed to be MLB ready and play 3B next season, KW just said Betimet and Fields are his thirdbasemen. They said some teams were looking at him as a RF, and Dye is supposedly being shopped. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............................. Yeah, that's one of the intriguing things about this kid, he's SUPPOSED to have a great arm. Maybe Cubano has more insight, but some of the reports have said he was a pitcher previously and threw upper 80's/low 90's but has given that up a long time ago. That said, in current condition, Jermaine Dye would look like Roberto Clemente compared to this kid lumbering around out there.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 08:11 PM) No, the sources for PED's is Soxtalk posters. There is nothing credible that links Swisher and PED's. As far as the coaching staff, they jacked him up a bit, especially Walker from what KW said. As for his off the field issues, I cannot defend that, even though I really don't know of any. I mean, I he sulked at himself when he was doing terrible, but at least he held himself accountable. I'm not a huge Swisher fan like a ton of people here, nor do I hate the guy either. But you are bringing up allegations brought forth by a message board who had their own ideas. Innocent until proven guilty. I haven't heard anything other than Soxtalk even say anything about the coaching staff hating him. They benched him when he should've been benched. I never heard anyone and I mean anyone link him to PED's besides the wonderful posters of Soxtalk. I'm not saying it isn't possible for all of this to be true, but I have a hard time believing it when the best source provided is a few guys from Soxtalk say, "He was probably on 'roids" when he was sucking and then running with that. And I also don't think Swisher will have as terrible of a year as he did. I would be shocked. As for the rest of it, I didn't like giving up Gio much less DLS and Sweeney for Swisher at all. Gio > Swisher. You STILL feel that way about Gio after this year, or did at THAT time? Sweeney never was a good fit playing in a stadium like USCF as a corner outfielder...like Swisher, he's just not an everyday CFer on a championship-caliber team. A nice piece to have, maybe, upside is a poor man's David DeJesus, but not an impact player. Everyone keeps on waiting for that 15-18 homer power to develop and they're still waiting.

They had it for David Wells back in 2001. Maybe it has become prohibitively expensive...with all the losses at places like AIG, lol. Funny, the insurance companies were also so greedy, they didn't understand the inherent risks in the debt instruments any better than the banks...probably had less knowledge, in fact, of how they might blow up in their faces. Actually, though, I thought it was Lloyd's of London that issued that policy for Wells. Not 100% sure. But it did give us back about 55-60% of his salary for that one season.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 04:54 PM) I'd have no problem with Murphy, but if it's Jenks we're dealing I'd like to see Kenny aim a little higher, like Fernando Martinez + Jon Niese or something. I just really don't want to see Kenny sell low on Jenks or settle for a "good deal" on Jenks. I want Kenny to start asking for these ridiculous packages that teams like the Orioles ask for their complimentary players. Jenks is a guy that actually is worth a ton. For Dye or Vazquez I think Murphy could be a nice centerpiece, although I'd prefer a CF prospect if at all possible since those are so hard to come by. Texas has a buttload of those, if they'd be interested in any of our guys. Atlanta has a couple, although they're rumored to be dealing my favorite one (Gorkys) for Peavy, plus Schafer is coming off a suspension for roids and Heyward is supposed to be untouchable. TEX has been linked often to the K-Rod sweepstakes, so I can see them also being willing to look at Jenks, because of the salary being so much lower, even in his arbitration years. As far as Price goes, another LH pitcher I remember being overhyped was the Tigers' Andrew Miller. The first time I saw him, I was like, this is the "power pitcher the Sox are supposed to be cowering in front of...???" I haven't seen Price pitch, so I'll defer to those who have, as some here are relying more on scouting reports, others on seeing him pitch at Vandy, others on what he did in the playoffs (or didn't do).

As far as offering Uribe arbitration, that could be dangerous. The whole reason we're making these moves is to clear some salary space and become more flexible and younger (although Swisher was in the prime of his career, SUPPOSEDLY). Uribe's Type B, correct? I think the risk is too high he accepts and ends up returning...and we end up paying him $4-5 million like we have the last couple of seasons, as if he's a starter. Betemit will be on our roster...90% chance that it's as the utility/supersub spot once occupied by Ozuna. If we did bring back Uribe, we might have Fields, Viciedo (if he signs), Betemit, Ramirez, Getz, Beckham, Nix and Uribe...I just think he's a little redundant at this point. Maybe KW is thinking differently, but I doubt it. BUT things can and will change by the minute with KW at the helm. Nunez, 22, has the best arm and upside of any prospect in the deal. The Yankees landed him earlier this year from the Nationals in the Alberto Gonzalez deal, and moved him from the rotation to the bullpen. He originally signed with the Dodgers in 2003 out of the Dominican Republic and came to the Nationals in a 2006 trade for Marlon Anderson. Nunez has a live arm and shows two plus pitches at times—a fastball that sits at 92-94 mph, touching 95, and a slider that he throws with some power that has inconsistent tilt. He throws from a low arm slot and was outstanding after the Yankees made what one club official termed "mechanical bad habits . . . he has much better balance now." He was 2-8, 5.22 as a starter at high Class A Potomac, but as a reliever in the Double-A Eastern League, with Harrisburg and then Trenton, he went 1-0, 1.65 in 27 innings, striking out 34, and had 116 whiffs in 108 innings overall. He had three saves and seven strikeouts in five scoreless innings in the EL playoffs. Marquez, 24, endured a difficult season, getting knocked around in Triple-A before being sent back to Trenton in the second half. A 2004 supplemental first-round pick, he entered 2008 as the Yankees' No. 7 prospect but would have ranked in the 21-30 range this season had he remained a Yankee. Marquez made progress with his changeup and curve in 2007 but was back to relying almost exclusively on his 88-92 mph sinker (which can reach a bit higher) and adding a slider in '08. He's a defense-dependent, early-contact kind of pitcher who lacks a strikeout pitch. Overall, he was 8-8, 4.47 with just 51 strikeouts in 102 2/3 innings. He finished strong, pitching well during Trenton's Eastern League title run, and is pitching for Peoria in the Arizona Fall League (1-2, 4.50). Betemit, 27, was the Braves' top prospect in 2001-2002 but has yet to establish himself as more than a solid role player due to poor plate discipline. He played all four infield spots for the Yankees this year, hitting .265/.289/.429 with six home runs and an ugly 6-56 walk-strikeout ratio. His career ratio is 108-314 with a .260/.325/.437 line. He's a switch-hitting option at third base for the White Sox if they do not re-sign free agent Joe Crede. Swisher's success in New York will be the key to the deal from New York's standpoint; Texeira is redundant in a system full of similar fastball-slider relief pitchers, such as Anthony Claggett. The White Sox hope pitching coach Don Cooper and pitching coordinator Kirk Champion can work the same magic with Marquez that they have for the likes of Gavin Floyd and John Danks and pick up a potential power arm for the '09 bullpen in Nunez.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/major...008/267179.html My thoughts, waking up at 904 am in Thailand and missing all the excitement. Nunez, as mentioned in the article, will be a key part of the bullpen and could be seen as a replacement for Dotel (if KW deals him) and insurance for Linebrink... Marquez will join the likes of Richard, Poreda, DJ Carrasco, Egbert, Broadway (if not traded) in the battle for the 5th starter's job. From everything I've read, he's sort of like a cross between Slowey and Jon Garland, but we shouldn't expect too many miracles with him. It does seem like Poreda will start off in the pen, although ST could be the determining factor. Betemit is two things, insurance for Fields and not signing Viciedo at 3B, insurance at SS for Ramirez (who could move back to 2B or to CF as well) and another warm body to compete with Getz/Nix at 2B, who are all basically holding the fort down while Beckham theoretically tears through the minors on the way to an August recall, or possibly earlier depending on what happens in ST. He's obviously very comfortable in AZ. Looking at the article, you get the sense that KW's scouts have been waiting in the weeds to pounce on Marquez and Nunez...and here's yet another chance for Don Cooper to earn his money with both these young guys. I'm not going to write off any KW trade when he acquires young pitchers with potential who are close to big league ready...it could go the way of Aardsma/Sisco or the success they've had with Matty Thornton. KW does like his former first rounders though...I think at one point, we had the most in the major leagues (Floyd and Danks are part of that group as well). I'm not expecting Nunez to be like Jenks or anything like that...but let's just sit back, strap it on, and wait to see how it all plays out. Obviously, this is the official death knell of the Juan Uribe years...thanks for that .400 average for 2 months when your first season, 2005 and the final two months of 2008. You won't be forgotten, Lizard. Now KW goes out and brings in Taveras, CoCo Crisp, etc., to be the starting CF. I saw the name Dickerson mentioned...he also could be one to watch, although KW will want a more proven player IMO.

If I was Friedman, I wouldn't dare take on Octavio Dotel OR his contract. I wouldn't feel very confident about acquiring Wasserman, who wasn't good enough to pitch for the White Sox...a team with multiple issues in its bullpen down the stretch who essentially relied on DJ Carrasco, a Japanese castoff, for much of a 3-4 week stretch when the likes of Wasserman, MacDougal, Russell, etc., could NOT be counted on. I understand dumping salary...but getting rid of Wheeler and Bradford for about the same amount as Dotel...well, I wouldn't do that. Neither Wheeler nor Bradford are capable of being closers, but I don't think Dotel is either, based on his career track record (before injuries) and how he did in the majority of high pressure situations in July/August/September of 2008. I also can't imagine they would give up their #3 RHSP prospect in this deal at all...sure, Niemann's available, maybe even McGee, but Davis isn't going anywhere unless we significantly sweeten the pot. Just because they have a lot of depth right now doesn't guarantee there won't be injuries or performance issues...look at the depth we had in 2000-2001 ("waves and waves" of pitching were on the horizon, a Braves-like dynasty was a common description) and how quickly all of it went south. Just sit on that depth until someone gets REALLY desperate and they make an offer you can't refuse. There's nothing FORCING the Rays to move their depth yet...they have plenty of time to wait for the best offer/s.

I want O-Cabrera with the Twins... 1) To see how poor his range looks on turf (they could have kept a younger/better version in Bartlett at 1/15th the cost), 2) To see the White Sox take Twins' draft picks for compensation, 3) To see us beat the Twins again and O-Cabrera finally miss out on the playoffs 4) Maybe to see Balfour taunt him again...that was good stuff, like K-G and Jose Calderon (Raptors)

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Nov 12, 2008 -> 05:50 PM) jon Rauch wasn't worthy of being named the best prospect in the country and BAmerica's minor league player of the year. But he's become a decent relief pitcher. He'd look nice in our pen. in fact, other than Buehrle or Garland, he's had a better career than all the other young guys from that era -- Ginter, Parque, Wells, Purvis, Fogg and the rest of those scrappers. Majewski and Biddle also had their moments in the sun. You can also include Aaron Myette, Josh Rupe, Kevin Beirne, Lorenzo Barcelo, Jason Stumm, Danny Wright, Jason Dellaero (well, he's going back a bit further)....then the failures of Honel and Corwin Malone and the bad drafts, Royce Ring comes to mind. All told, the biggest loss might be that of Frank Francisco (the chair thrower who went through a major surgery as well), who we got from the Red Sox for Howry and then traded as part of one of the Everett deals.

I would be fine with either guy too, as long as we don't guarantee them anything (either money or the 5th spot). Especially with Colon...he needs to have some incentives to compete and get in shape. If he needs to be motivated to pitch for the Red Sox, well, I'm not sure what the White Sox can do about him. He left a lot of Sox fans tantalized by his stuff but frustrated with his lackadaisical attitude and approach that seemed to say "I only pitch when I want to pitch," which usually meant the offense had to support him or he just kind of cruised along.

Wade Davis (coming into 2008) Position: RHSP Age:22.0 (23 in 2009) Projected 08 Level: AA/AAA Stats: Vero Beach (13 GS) - 78.1 IP 54 H 5 HR 88 K 21 BB 1.84 ERA Montgomery (14 GS) - 80 IP 74 H 3 HR 81 K 30 BB 3.15 ERA Another third of the Montgomery trio, Davis is more polished than McGee in terms of using his non-fastball pitches, although I'm not sure that any of his pitches can match the effectiveness of that McGee heater. http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/...ds/?pl_id=31183 Seems like Davis pitched much better in AAA than AA this year... He's the #3 prospect in their system, just named yesterday. Reid Brignac (SS) is 4th. Wonder if they would be willing to part with Desmond Jennings (OF)???

I didn't have a chance to see Price pitch at all, living in Thailand...so with that caveat, I can only go with what Wills and their broadcasters said...which, paraphrasing, was more along the lines of his command/control of his offspeed stuff and adding a third pitch (which may or may not be necessary, depending on who you speak with about Price). I do think with the struggles of the P. Hughes, Homer Baileys, Kershaw's, etc., that there are many more hyped/heralded pitching prospects that disappoint than those who go out right away and dominate, like Liriano did in 2006...even Dice-K, a veteran, went through a very long adjustment period his first season. With the White Sox, it's been so long since we've had a rookie pitch really well (I'm not even asking for total domination!)...you might have to go back to about 2-3 months of Kip Wells at the tail end of his first campaign. Buehrle started out of the pen...as he was still having to prove himself. And Garland was so-so for the better part of 3-4 seasons, then morphed into slightly above so-so, lol.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 12, 2008 -> 11:22 PM) <!--quoteo(post=1792933:date=Nov 12, 2008 -> 10:38 PM:name=caulfield12)-->QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 12, 2008 -> 10:38 PM) <!--quotec-->Danks and Liriano have the same fastball now, 91-93, touching 94 MPH. Liriano's slider is down from 87-90 into the low 80's. He's afraid to really let it go...that "muscle memory" of the injury seems to be affecting him mentally. Liriano mowed down the lower-tier teams (he had a lot of favorable match-ups) but he lost a couple of really big games down the stretch...I think his reputation from 2006 helped him to a large extent, but the jury's out if he will ever have that devastating slider back again (and if he uncorks it, how long his elbow will hold together). Would you trade Danks for Liriano TODAY, straight up? I wouldn't, because Danks has a nice, repeatable/easy delivery and doesn't look like nearly the injury risk that The Franchise does going forward. From to Fan Graphs: Danks in 2008: FB: 52.2% (91.3 average velocity)(89.5 in 2007) SL: 4.7% (83.9)(81.0) CT: 16.4% (87.1) CB: 6.4% (77.0)(76.9) CH: 20.3% (82.8)(81.7) K/9: 7.34 Liriano in 2008: FB: 53.6% (90.9)(94.7 in 2006) SL: 26.4% (83.7)(87.7) CH: 20.0% (82.0)(83.5) K/9: 7.93 This was still only his first stint back from ligament replacement surgery so we'll see what happens next year after he has a full offseason to strengthen that arm back up. Yeah, we'll have to see. The second year back (first full season) will be much more telling. If he's throwing 87-89 MPH sliders and is pain free, watch out. But I still don't see that elbow holding up...there's just too much torque the way he throws the 2006 slider not to have a recurrence. And it seemed Danks got stronger as the year went on...he was consistently 92-93 and sometimes 94 later in the season.

QUOTE (rockren @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 12:20 AM) LOL...I know. But the Rays aren't looking to deal Garza. There have been talks about them looking to deal Jackson because there isn't enough room for him going into next year. People just started mentioning Garza out of thin air. Because Kazmir and Price aren't going anywhere, and Sonnanstine/Jackson/Niemann, etc., are of limited interest to most GM's, unless they're looking for a 5th starter type.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 12:17 AM) WHAT?! You're ruining everyone's chance to DREAM! Obama's President, and Garza can be a White Sox! Oh, and duh, this is what happens at SoxTalk. People bring up possible scenarios, and then other posters jump in wanting Carl Crawford, Jake Peavy, Matt Garza, etc etc. Ummm....last time I checked, TB didn't have a closer, unless you consider Wheeler or Howell or Balfour to be closers in waiting? Definitely not Percival anymore. Price will certainly be in the rotation, at least that's the plan. You also have Niemann. So if Poreda can be spun off as another Billy Wagner/Arthur Rhodes, along with Dye...Poreda would be very interesting because he's cheap/affordable, Dye doesn't have an unreasonable contract and he would net them Type A compensation, too. So you have Dye (for at least one year), a first rounder in Poreda you control for six years at least, two Type A compensation picks for losing Dye and you're giving up a 2/3 starter and Ed. Morlan for that? I think it's a fair deal for both teams...and fills two big needs (power/RF) and bullpen/power arm for the Rays at the same time.

Dye and Poreda is NOT JUST Dye, far from it. Second, Bartlett was much more important to the Rays than anyone can possibly comprehend unless you watch them everyday and observe all the little things he does to win games....he's a super-smart baseball player. They also got E. Morlan. So it's not so simple as you've boiled it down to.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 12, 2008 -> 11:50 PM) Yeah well of course he still has a lot to prove as a SP, I don't disagree there. But his fastball and slider are top notch. And the Poreda/Price comparison really doesn't fit. Price is head and shoulders above Poreda right now. Which is why I don't think KW would hesitate to trade Dye and Poreda for Garza and Morlan. Swisher moves to LF, Quentin to his natural RF position. Nix and Getz hold 2B until Beckham comes up in August....Casey Blake is signed for 3B. The Taveras/Broadway or Russell deal goes through. There's your team. Of course, there's the possibility of Hudson, but KW won't go beyond 2 years IMO, not at Hudson's age and with Beckham in the pipeline. We sign Viciedo, Beckham is definitely ticketed for 2B, because Viciedo would be either a corner OF, 3B, DH or 1B. Also, if we were able to get Garza...that would move Vazquez to fifth starter, and Richard to the pen for Poreda's 2nd lefty role behind Thornton. We wouldn't have to trade Jenks, Fields, Anderson, Vazquez, Konerko, Thome, etc. This is a pretty logical set of moves. It's just that the Rays' GM Friedman won't part with Garza, IMO. And we might get outbid for Viciedo...it just depends on how much he would like to be around Ramirez/Contreras/Guillen, and how comfortable he would be in some other markets. Apparently, teams are already promising to move starters or prospects at 3B to make way for him. How much of that is hype/bluster and how much reality, I have no idea.