caulfield12

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 05:33 PM) Atkins and Kouzmanoff would be nice, and Figgins would be better as a 2B option. But, Beltre's too expensive, & Blake and Mora seem too old. Blake would be fine for a two year contract, with Beckham slotted to take his place in mid 2010 or play 2B and then move back over to 3B in 2011 to start the season. Maybe he will be an exception to the rule (remember the days of Thomas and Ventura making more immediate impacts...or Alex Fernandez?) and play for the Sox next season, but I'm not counting on that yet.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 06:48 PM) The problem with this team isn't base-stealing speed. The problem is 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home. That's the kind of speed we need, not Owens, not Taveras, but more like Quentin or Anderson. If they steal a base, great...but taking an extra base is more important with this team. Ramirez, Wise, Ozuna (when he was here), Cabrera, Uribe (the somewhat skinnier version)

Blake, Kouzmanoff, Atkins, Mora, Figgins, Beltre

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,4417740.story Not really any "new" news in this article. Speculation about Uribe going to SF as a starter, Fields starting at 3B, Nix and Getz competing for the 2B spot...theorizes about Hall coming back or Cole Armstrong. Talks a little about the Sox probably cutting ties now with Joe Crede after a decade. Quotes from KW about Fields and trying to operate "more under the radar" this Winter Meetings.

I forgot about Colon...I guess, because like David Wells, he really didn't want to be a member of the White Sox in his heart.

Owens/Anderson platoon in CF means we deal Swisher or Konerko. It's a possible, although unlikely, scenario. I'm sure Taveras would get back twice the return on the open market that KW putting up Owens for "sale/bid" would.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 30, 2008 -> 09:37 PM) Octavio is off the books after '09 and barring a total collapse next year will bring Type A compensation. Even though he gets bumped up to I believe $6M next year, he's still affordable. In order for the Sox to give up Type A comp in 2010 plus open up a hole in the bullpen and only get $6M in salary relief they would have to be bowled over, and I doubt any team is going to give up the type of talent necessary to do that when they could just sign a reliever on the open market. With Jenks it is another story because he's under control for a while still. Do you really feel confident Dotel will stay 100% healthy for another season? I'm not so sure. We shall see. Would you, as another team's GM, sign Octavio Dotel if it meant giving up two high draft picks? I wouldn't even consider it for a nano-second.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 30, 2008 -> 09:25 PM) I think it's too risky to sell a star like Jenks for position prospects, but I'd do Jenks for Jackson and Morlan in a heartbeat. My original idea was to try to add Dye and work in another SP prospect too because that would allow the Sox to deal Javy for pitching. The Braves, Nats, and Mets all look like reasonable targets for Javy. JoJo Reyes + Cole Rohrbaugh, Joel Hanrahan + Josh Smoker, Jon Niese + Duaner Sanchez - those are the kinds of deals I'd like to see for Javy. If you want to send Dye elsewhere, what about to Texas for a deal centered around Eric Hurley? Again, I don't know how realistic this would be, but if the Sox could end up trading Dye, Jenks, and Javy, and bring back Edwin Jackson, Eric Hurley, and Jon Niese to compete for two SP slots, and then add a potential future closer in Morlan to the front of the pen, and in the process drop about $26M off of payroll, deepen the farm, and get younger in the future, why not? I'm sure there are other places Dye can go to hit just as well. He is better at home than on the road, but he still hit 16 HR's away compared to 18 at home last year. The average and SLG% is down away, but that's like that with a lot of players. If you're saying Dye can't get the ball over the fence in other parks I think you're wrong and understating his power. I don't want Baldelli. If he was perfectly healthy I'd love to pencil him in CF every day, but only playing a few days per week and sometimes not even full games is just waaaay too much hassle. Every spot on the 25-man roster is important, and I'd want the comfort of knowing that my fourth OF can play a full 9 innings three or four days in a row if necessary without collapsing on the field. Yeah we're not getting BJ or CC but everybody knows that. Besides I wouldn't want to target players like that anyway. We need to take our few valuable but aging assets and continue to exchange them for a younger core. Targeting a Crawford or Upton type would require us to deal our core from several areas to become significantly better in one, and then we'd have to fill the new holes we've opened with older players again. Not having a legit closer can really hurt, but it helps to have a pitcher who is 1) not a headcase, 2) has at least pretty good control, 3) is generally healthy over an entire season, and 4) has good enough stuff to get hitters out. Thornton fits that criteria and many of the guys that teams like the Tigs and Indians have trotted out there do not. When you put garbage on the mound you should at some point expect garbage results, and thankfully Thornton isn't garbage. Actually, Zumaya and Rodney have very good stuff, they just don't always execute...even Dolsi to a lesser extent. Now the Indians are a different story...they deserved the problems they got going into last season as they did what THAT pen.

Well, now its Chone Figgins/Brian Roberts talk. Which I guess is better than Alex Cintron, Mackowiak, Daubach, Julio Ramirez or Armando Rios talk. I kind of miss D'Angelo Jimenez and Royce Clayton, they gave Sox posters so much deep and rich material to work with. FWIW, I don't think Edwin Jackson is close to being on the radar of young/inconsistent starters the Sox would target in a theoretical Jenks deal...it would have to be someone with legit potential to be a 3 starter or above (Danks/Floyd/Matt Garza, etc.)

Peavy makes little or no sense. We would have to give up Poreda, Fields and Swisher probably. They won't be interested in Dye or Konerko as much. As mentioned, the White Sox have been better off during the Williams regime finding pitchers on the scrap heap (Loaiza, Eldred, Jenks, Hermanson and Thornton) and prospects (Danks/Floyd) rather than spending money/talent on a big acquisition. David Wells and Todd Ritchie were the only really big/splashy moves he made...and those moves came early in his tenure. I think he really learned from the Ritchie move about overprojecting "decent" NL pitchers who pitch under little or no pressure for depth/quantity in the pitching department. In fact, it wasn't until 3 seasons later that the organization was able to recover from trades and injuries to put a decent 5th starter on the mound.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 30, 2008 -> 05:54 PM) Jackson was left off the ALDS roster only because they needed 3, at most 4, SP plus they have a ton of middle relievers. He was on the ALCS and WS roster, going 4.1IP and giving up 1 run on 2 H. Edwin Jackson would have made our team's full postseason roster and most other teams' full postseason rosters. The Rays have an embarrassment of talent if you haven't heard. Fernando Perez? Are you serious? I want real difference makers, not soon-to-be 26-year-old fast guys who can't hit for any power. The guy struck out 156 times in Triple A in 2008. I want him nowhere near this team. Gomes is another all-or-nothing hacker. The idea is to get better, not tread water. If you're going to make this move, it's better to do Jenks for Jackson and a prospect (3B/CF/plus arm out of pen) Dye is much more valuable to the White Sox than perhaps any team out there, because of the park he plays in...that's why he has led MLB RF'ers in home runs from 2005-2008. I'm not serious about Perez...although I would love to have Baldelli as a fourth outfielder, not sure that's realistic. But we are not going to get Carl Crawford or BJ Upton, end of story. If we really are serious thinking that Jenks' value (and fastball) have peaked, and this is certainly the window of time when he is most valuable to another team (before he hits Free Agency and gets an even bigger contract)...then KW will take that risk. I just don't think he does it unless he feels 100% confident in either Thornton or Russell. The White Sox have shown time and time again (Howry, Foulke, Takatsu, Hermanson, Jenks...Koch was the only "name" reliever and his name was mud quickly enough) that they have the ability to find "under the radar" closers who don't cost tons of money. As someone mentioned, is the difference between a 75 and 85% save conversion rate worth having an extra $12 million to play around with and a young/affordable/high potential starter in Edwin Jackson that's under our control for X number of years? However, as the Indians and Tigers have learned (and we saw during the Koch Era), not having a legit closer can have disastrous results on overall team morale.

QUOTE (MO2005 @ Oct 30, 2008 -> 11:11 AM) Resigning Griffey?? Why? The guy is old, slow, and not what we need. Geez while we are at it why don't we bring back Roberto Alomar to play 2nd, Griffey plays center, and sign Kenny Rogers..Just sign all the old and over the hill players!! I'm completely behind Sandy Alomar/Charles Johnson at catcher and Greg Norton/Perry/Snopek for 3B. If unavailable, Widger, Fordyce or Mark Johnson.

Do the Giants want to keep getting older and slower, though? With the move from the opening post, we're taking way too many chances. For all I know, Adam Russell would be a better closer than Matt Thornton. One thing's for certain, I don't think I would ever want to see Thornton come into a close or tied game in the 9th inning with runners on base...maybe his actual stats counter this somewhat, but his numbers of runners inherited/scored can't be all that great. Maybe I am letting some particularly bad memories influence me here. Edwin Jackson was so valued by the Rays that he was left off their post-season roster...the White Sox might be better off targeting someone who really knows how to pitch, like Sonnanstine, even though Jackson has much better stuff overall. While the idea is a good one, Jermaine Dye on turf (I mentioned this elsewhere) even for one year is a risky proposition for any team. 85-90 games counting TOR and MIN, not to mention the fact he's a West Coast guy. I don't think we can begin to count on anything from Contreras for 09, and KW certainly isn't...hopefully he learned from the Crede situation, although we accidentally (the Uribe re-signing) had a capable back-up there to fill in the gap. If we went into 08 with Fields as the starter and Crede gone, we might (even probably) would have ended up missing the playoffs. Just a feeling. As far as more realistic, start talking Fernando Perez and Rocco Baldelli, lol. Or Johnny Gomes. Gomes, like Cantu, put up some very solid offensive seasons but has fallen off the map and is still a relatively young player.

But would Tampa really want someone with Dye's lack of range playing on artificial turf (including TOR and MIN) around 90-95 games per season? With Jermaine's history, it seems a recipe for disaster. Granted, he has been very healthy with us for the last four years, but you can't expect that to last forever realistically. I think TB knows that the key to winning is pitching, speed and defense for them, and they have enough pop with Pena and Longoria. Of course, they'd be better off with Dye playing instead of Baldelli or Fernando Perez...but I think JD's most valuable to the Sox because of our stadium. And I doubt he would fetch both a quality/young/affordable starting pitcher and one of the most reliable RH relievers in the game today (especially in the post-season). Would MIL really want to take on $15 million in salaries for veterans, give up a popular/younger player in Hardy who plays the most important position on the diamond (along with catcher and CF)...I mean, if you want to make Dotel the closer, fine, but MIL paying $6.5 million for a set-up guy who has shades of Eric Gagne written all over him is unlikely. Yeah, I know that Octavio's K/IP ratio was amazing, but his performance in really crucial situations over the second half of the season left a LOT to be desired. I also think Escobar SHOULD be a good/great player, but as we know with prospects (see Andy Marte or Brandon Wood), just assuming someone will take over a position for 5-6 years is fraught with peril at times. An Escobar failure or return to AAA leaves MIL looking silly for dealing Hardy. Paying an aging/injury-prone Furcal more than anyone on the roster (especially the likes of Konerko, Dye, Buehrle, who got us WS rings and signed for below market value to an extent) seems to be an ill-advised move. I know the back end of the contract evens it out a little bit, but this doesn't seem like a KW move to me at all, in terms of the financial underpinning of the deal. Thome's deal is close, but we're getting the "subsidy" to lower that $16 million by around half, correct? Like the Garcia move better than most pitching options out there.

Is the $400K guaranteed or just if he makes the MLB roster? Or is it a split contract where he would be paid Charlotte wages if he doesn't make the team out of ST?

FWIW, Reyes was more of a bargain than I thought. Only $1 million salary in 2008. Especially compared to Mike MacDougal.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Oct 29, 2008 -> 08:12 AM) I like the idea of Reyes FWIW. He's had 2 excellent seasons out of the last 3 with the Twins as a reliever, would be an upgrade over Logan, and would take something away from our biggest rival in the division. All depends on the price though. No chance Floyd or Danks are dealt either. KW should b looking to pickup more pitchers like them who haven't hit the majors yet FWIW. With the emergence of Breslow and Mijares (especially in the last season) and the fact that Neshek will be back, Reyes is too expensive and was essentially their third or fourth lefty option (also after Guardado) down the stretch. He's kind of like Jamie Walker to me, albeit with a better track record. Having watched a number of Twins' games in the past, I don't quite trust him anymore...although it's such a "hit and miss" proposition with bullpen arms. Certainly, I'd take him over Richard and Logan, just depends on the cost.

Uribe will be offered. If he can find a better deal, more years, or a chance to fight for the starting position...then more power to him and his agent. There's about a 33% possibility they keep him as the starting 2B/SS, depending on what happens with the market this offseason, taking into consideration the economic downturn affecting general trends of committing to longer term deals, season ticket renewals, corporate sponsorships, etc. I don't see the wild and reckless spending of the past 2-3 offseasons, maybe I'll be proven wrong on that one. But I doubt it. As far as Griffey, no secret agreement, there's no way in hell we offer him arbitration and take that risk.

IF Crede walks, lol!! I'm not convinced yet that it will happen. We'll see. Kind of the opposite of the Durham for Adkins deal where we were just trying to save money and "test drive" Willie Harris and there was a lot of speculation at the time that no compensation would be provided for lost FA's, so KW took a stab at Adkins' supposed plus arm in what turned out to be one of his worst PR disasters, along with the Barry/Berry Onan Masaoka deal.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,6117087.story Tribune article...new names mentioned include Alex Cora as "supersub" if they don't retain Uribe, the idea of restructuring Toby Hall's contract if they wish to retain him, Dennys Reyes as loogy (backing up Thornton and providing insurance for Richard/Logan) and finally, Taveras/Atkins as part of a bigger package to solve the 3B and CF dilemma/s. Also is complimentary of a Getz/Ramirez pairing in the middle infield. No mention of Nix yet.

Simply because of his contract (which KW didn't want to pay the "junkballer" Freddy)...and the way he was throwing down the stretch in 2006. Yes, I remember the game against the Angels in Anaheim (meaningless at that point) and maybe the Twins as well, they might have been what allowed us to trade him more easily...as other GM's were positing the theory he could pitch as a finesse guy and not the 93-96 MPH power pitcher he was in the early 00's with the Mariners. I guess it's easy to be revisionist with Gio...he was/has been included in lists of the Top 50-75 prospects in the game...and he's been hyped anywhere ranging from Arnie Munoz with a better fastball to better than Barry Zito in his prime...but I still think it will go down as quite a "steal" for KW. Things change over time, of course...in the long-term, Miguel Olivo for Chad Bradford doesn't look quite so bad (as in the M. Lewis book) because Olivo was flipped (along with Reed and Morse, but a key part of that puzzle, Part 1A with Reed) to give us one of the key pitchers who led us to the World Series title. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/c...&id=2689429 To look at a review of that trade, this is a good one by Jayson Stark.

I doubt there are many teams out there willing to go with Chris Getz as their #1 or even 1A option as a starter going into Spring Training. Prospects/Suspects 23...Marcus Sanders (SFG) coming off injury 23...Chris Nelson (Rockies) very, very low OPS in minors, once considered a premiere prospect 24...Joel Guzman (Rays) at 3B now, came up as SS, could he also play 2B, like Iwamura did with Longoria taking over there? 24...Joaquin Arias (Rangers) 24...Cliff Pennington (A's) Will take Crosby's spot??? 24...Brandon Wood (Angels) Would the Angels give up on him this quickly? 25...Brent Lillibridge (Braves) 25...Sergio Santos (Twins)...once considered a star, Twins will never give him to us, unless he's released outright 26...Jayson Nix (Rockies)...a possible KW target??? It's obvious (I posted this already) that he was a possibility, because he was once talented/hyped 2B/SS prospect. In fact, because he's a former SS, that gives him a leg up probably...and the fact that KW is probably thinking that if Getz is only a .650 OPS guy, maybe he can somehow get a higher number from Nix as a stopgap measure. At least we have some insurance and additional depth now. As far as KW's record with these kinds of moves, we've had our fair share of Julio Ramirezes and D'Angelo Jimenezes, but that's the nature of being a GM When you go after talented but "unfulfilled potential" guys like Quentin, Jenks or Thornton, it's a lot of hit and miss....but KW and his scouts have been really superb in this kind of "under the radar" acquisition. Alexei Ramirez comes to mind. A couple of spring trainings ago, we auditioned about 8 left-handers with talent/ability and yet none of them had the impact we were looking for. We didn't have much luck with the likes of Aardsma and Sisco, two more former high draft picks. When you look at the core of this team, it's amazing how we acquired each one of them, really. You can add Buehrle as a marginal/low draft pick, along with the Floyd/Garcia deal and Danks/McCarthy...of our arguably top 7 younger "core players" (not counting Konerko or Dye), we gave up little or nothing for most of them. If you want to add Dye and AJ, those deals didn't involve us giving up anything in terms of talent. Quentin...stolen, essentially Jenks...stolen Ramirez...has signed what currently looks like the best contract in baseball (to Sox fans) Thornton...for Joe Borchard Floyd...another "steal" Danks...even if McCarthy comes close to 2005 form, we would seem to have the second best lefty in the AL to Clifford Lee Buehrle...38th round draft pick and signed for a pittance Dye and AJ=FA That's the MAIN reason why KW still has not only a job, but partially why he won a WS ring...those first six names on the list, and Dye/AJ. If you wanted to make a more complete list of great KW "under the radar" moves, you'd have to include Tadahito Iguchi, Dustin Hermanson, Neal Cotts and Cliff Politte (for one year each, but how sweet it was) and I'll stretch it to include El Duque (for that one inning in BOS, maybe a so-so deal financially) and Vizcaino. Although he foundered in late 2005, but Marte for Guerrier (the original move with the Pirates) was a great move for the better part of three seasons as well. (Note, I won't include Pods because we gave up so much to get him and his body broke down...but another sound thought...and not such bad results for four months and one post-season AB!)

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb We could have an interest in Teahen for 3B (although he's not much more than Joe Randa-Lite unless he hits like he did a couple of seasons ago)... We certainly would have interest in any of the three Indians outfielders to play CF. However, I doubt, after watching Quentin explode, that Shapiro would take a chance and trade either Francisco or Rodriguez to us. I haven't seen Crowe play much, and I'm sure there are concerns about any of these "corner outfielders" (once again, haven't seen Crowe enough) playing CF in Chicago on an everyday basis. I can say that I would take either over BA, but that doesn't mean our talent matches up to get the deal done. I guess they're ready to declare Marte a bust officially...but I think they would like to acquire someone with more predictive certainty than Josh Fields. Then again, Josh has a lot more potential offensive upside than Teahen IMO.

Well, every GM makes a mistake now and then. You could have argued the merits of Vazquez/Young after 07 and still it will be a long debate over who won that trade. At least, we know one thing, FDLS and Gio Gonzalez are highly unlikely to be top-line starting pitchers in the majors and Ryan Sweeney is not well-suited for the power game of Comiskey...although he's a good athlete and has many skills you'd like to see in a young outfielder, he was never a very good fit for our style of play unless he could play CF adequately, which is questionable at best. The only really bad contracts we have right now are Contreras and McDougal...Dotel, coming off the way he pitched in the post-season, doesn't look HORRIBLE, but $6.5 million is a LOT for a set-up guy that's not close to automatic, like Linebrink was the first half of the season, or Hermanson was in 2005. Of course, Konerko's and Thome's deal aren't the best in the world either, but as a White Sox fan, you can't really argue they're terrible...NOT signing Paulie after 2005 would have sent a bad message to the fanbase. And we're still getting some money (apparently) to subsidize the Thome deal (in fact, the Philly won't have any problem at all paying that out after this week). In fact, it was holding onto Dye and Buehrle that largely allowed this team to hang on and make the playoffs this year, instead of going into more of a youth phase (hard to do that without any young players in your system!).

"I'm not nothing." Signed, Jon Adkins' purported 95 MPH heater.