caulfield12

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 04:17 PM) I would love to package Swisher and a prospect for David DeJesus. Heck, maybe even offer up Brian Anderson in the package. DeJesus would be a perfect fit in the 2 spot and would allow the Sox to focus the rest of the off-season finding a 3B/2Bman. DeJesus hits for an average and is well liked, but Swisher still can hit for power and is a guy that I'm sure the fan base would rally around in KC. Again, I don't know if the Royals do that deal but DeJesus would be one of my top priorities if I were Kenny. Kenny could than decide what to do with Josh Fields. Personally I'd target a young 3rd baseman and than consider going with Alexei and DeJesus a top the order with Getz and a young 3rd baseman (Not FIELDS though) rounding things out. IT would be a cheap off-season and Kenny could potentially find a way to pick up another reliever and than obviously the club would have to find another starter as I'd anticipate the trade of Javy Vazquez. The problem with DeJesus is that he's just a so-so CFer (arm strength again)...he's essentially a corner outfielder playing CF. Traditionally, you need to have more pop from the corner/s, which is where they have Guillen and Teahen (who also lacks pop for RF/3B on a good team) playing the majority of time. He's a nice little player, but I don't think he's the answer either. And I highly doubt that Dayton Moore would make that move...certainly not for Anderson, they have a player with more potential (Gathright) but many of the same offensive woes, as well as nagging injury problems. DeJesus is the kind of player who will be quietly making about $8 million soon, and I'm not sure he's THAT good...I mean, I would rather keep Anderson and not pay DeJesus that much of a difference (like the discussion about Getz at minimum versus Hudson at $12 million). All things being equal, I would rather put $8 million in the starting rotation than David DeJesus over BA. I don't see why we have to anticipate a Vazquez trade, unless the Great Depression really is upon us, in which case the entire payroll would have to come down 25-30% to offset a loss of season ticket sales...it will be interesting if the Dow falls another 1-2,000 points, how that drop starts affecting revenues, payrolls, company promotions and season ticket sales, and which markets will be hardest hit. The irony is the economy going south really helps the Sox, because the Chicago area is more resilient I think than Detroit and Cleveland. I don't know if KW is having this thought, and maybe I'm reading too much into the downturn, but I think this will be an interesting area to monitor...cutbacks in sports promotion and advertising in general during times of austerity. Well, as Darth Vader/James Earl Jones said famously, "people will come."

Castillo isn't really a leadoff hitter anymore...he would be much better as a #2, which is where Minnesota mostly used him.

The A's are leading the charge for international free agent pitcher Michael Inoa; they could offer him $4MM. All teams have scouted him. MLB.com's Jim Molony names the Astros, Yankees, Cardinals, Angels, Mets, and Pirates as teams considering Cuban defector Dayan Viciedo (assuming he becomes a free agent). According to another article I've read, a total of 14 teams have already made contact with Viciedo through his agent. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3433834 Above...very good summary of the top Latin (minus Cuban) prospects in the world for MLB, ranked in order

Dayan Viciedo Defects From Cuba By Nat Boyle [June 8, 2008 at 9:37am CST] 12:45pm Baseball America's John Manuel has a solid write up on Viciedo and his free agent status. Agent Jamie Torres says, "He was processed at the end of May. To me, he was not drafted and should be an undrafted free agent. We’ll see if the union agrees with me." The catch here is whether or not Viciedo is subject to the rules of the draft now that he's in the U.S. Had he gone to the Dominican Republic, for example, he could be a free agent. Since teams weren't informed of his eligibility to be signed or drafted, his status remains to be determined. Manuel also presents mixed reviews of Viciedo's potential, but his hitting ability is not in question. According to Jorge Ebro and Wilfredo Cancio Isla of the Miami Herald, Dayan Viciedo, a 19 year old Cuban ballplayer, has defected from his home country and arrived in Miami with renewed motivation. This is a new name for me, but Ebro and Cancio shed some light on the arrival of a promising new talent: "Born March 10, 1989... Viciedo is regarded as the best Cuban baseball player in the past eight years after Kendry Morales, who defected in 2004 and now plays in the Los Angeles Angels' system. 'Dayán is going to spark a lot of talk in the majors,'' said his agent, Puerto Rican lawyer Jaime Torres, 'He has arrived with youth, he is very versatile and his conditioning is exceptional. We will soon see him wearing the uniform of a major league team.'" Viciedo is 6'2", 202 lbs capable of playing SS, 3B, and OF. According to the Havana Journal, at 16 he was the youngest Cuban All Star in history. At 18, he was chosen to play in the World Baseball Classic in the U.S. and is often compared to Omar Linares, one of the greatest Cuban players of all time. Baseball in Cuba has been on continued decline without motivated players. No word on interested teams yet. Anyone have any more insight on Viciedo? By Nat Boyle (www.mlbtraderumors.com) I first watched Viciedo play as a 16-year old in Cuba. He was a shortstop with great range and a strong arm, but was moved to third base because Villa Clara's shortstop, Paret, is a star with cuba's National Team. The comment that Cuban baseball is in decline is absurd. The most recent season was perhhaps the best ever and featured some stellar performances by players who would star in the major leagues. Santaigo's right fielder, Alexei Bell, set league records with 31 home runs and 111 RBI. (The Cuban season is only 90 games.) Whoever claims that Cuban ballplayers are not motivated has, clearly, never seen a game in Cuba. Earlier this year I watched Santiago de Cuba play Industriales in Havana. The rivalry of these teams is every bit as intense as that between the Yankees and Red Sox. American baseball fans with me at the game commented that it was the best baseball that they ahd ever seen. Cuban finished second in the 2006 World Baseball Classic. They will field an oustanding team in 2009. Kit Krieger

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 12:30 PM) On the other side of the coin, the Indians really started playing well when they got rid of him and CC. Although I do think he's a better option than 162 games of watching Josh Fields strike out. I'm hoping the Sox go after Blalock. I think he can be had relatively cheaply, will make about $6 million next year, and may be ready to start hitting again. Get a couple of guys who can run in CF and 2B, move Ramirez to SS add a reliever or 2. Get rid of Vazquez. Sign a reclimation project or 2 ie Freddy or Bartolo, and the Sox will rule the Central. I think there was just so much turmoil and media attention around Sabathia that it got the better of the Indians. Most importantly, the injuries to Hafner and Martinez. Not coincidentally, Francisco and Franklin Gutierrez started to come into their own, and Peralta and Cabrera and Garko all picked it up. I think Cabrera will end up at SS with Peralta moving to first or 3B and Martinez getting more PT at 1B with Shoppach taking more of the catching time to prevent further physical deterioration to Victor. That kind of leaves Garko, who had a VERY strong second half, as the odd man out. Sizemore was the only constant throughout the entire season, probably the best player in the AL now overall. Not unlike the Royals taking out the Twins, the Indians knew they were out of the playoff hunt, knew Sabathia was gone and that they could just relax and work towards improving for 2009. They still have huge problems after Lee and Carmona in their rotation, and their bullpen is bigger mess than Detroit's.

Losing Cabrera...we just don't have very many "contact" hitters on this team....just Ramirez and AJ. We need a little more balance than that. Hopefully it will come from 2B/SS/CF/C, the heart of defense and the spark plugs of the offense (in a perfect Sox world).

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 11:49 AM) Is there a 3rd baseman in the bunch ? Dayan Viciedo. We trade for Kendry Morales and find a 2B as well, we have all all-Cuban infield. Then we can bring back Canseco and Palmeiro and maybe Omar Linares.

We're leaving out Chris Young, who has all five tools but a good throwing arm... The irony is that Kenny Williams and Daryl Boston were both expected to be "five tool" players...same with Mike Cameron and Jimmy Hurst. It's not like we've never developed any athletic outfielders in our minors, it's just that they haven't always met expectations in the majors. Ray Durham (not quite a power hitter, but with a lot of extra-base pop) also comes to mind, although he was lacking defensively. Beckham doesn't run all that well, decent speed. Borchard and Sweeney had some of the elements, but neither runs at the highest scale of the scouts' rating system. We've also tried to bring in guys from outside our system, like D'Angelo Jimenez and Julio Ramirez (Marlins). Willie Harris was hyped as a less powerful version of Durham. McKay Christensen, when he was drafted high in the first round, was thought to have all the tools as well. Of course, Sammy Sosa also comes to mind, although he was "incubated" by the Rangers along with Juan-Gone.

It was the 1985-1989 Cardinals with McGee, Vince Coleman, Pendleton, Ozzie Smith, that stole so many bases. Second, we all agree it's very important to get a lead...and that the first team to score in a game wins more often than not, right? Well, remember how often in 2005 the first two months we scored first or had a lead because of Pods and Iguchi setting the table? That's where bunting and situational (not just hacking away) hitting came into play in an important way...psychologically, the other team always was under pressure and fighting to come back, and bunting (and hitting to the opposite field) and disrupting the opposing pitcher (pitching out of the stretch also) had a big part to play in why that team was so successful in winning 1 run ballgames but also getting out to early leads. It wasn't usually with the HR in April/May that year...although the homer became more important as the weather heated up, as it always does at US Cell.

The speedy and available: Brian Roberts, Ichiro Suzuki (maybe), Coco Crisp, Nick Punto, Willy Taveras, Jerry Hairston Jr., Juan Pierre, Randy Winn, Bobby Abreu, Luis Castillo, Corey Patterson, Julio Lugo, and Cesar Izturis. source: mlbtraderumors.com Of course, Roberts and Ichiro. But Izturis is an interesting name to me, because he knows how to play NL style ball, he's not as old, and he wouldn't be as expensive to acquire. Crisp and Lugo might be worth taking a look at as well. Patterson for 4th/5th outfielder (if Wise/Anderson go) Punto for Uribe's "supersub" position, but not as a starter (I think Minnesota will probably pick up his option/offer arbitration)

''It was a lot of work, but you could see it gradually taking hold, especially when we had so many young players and then we started making deals,'' manager Joe Torre said of the Dodgers' transformation that took an entire season. ''Casey Blake really sort of changed our personality a little bit. And then of course Manny did more of that, and [pitcher Greg] Maddux, even though he didn't pitch a great deal for us, made a big difference. ''And all of a sudden this ballclub sort of blended together.'' Good argument for Casey Blake at 3B for us...pretty insightful reference from one of the best managers in the game.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 02:54 AM) Because a lineup has 9 guys in it, not 5 or 6. You also need a good defensive squad, and Owens is a terrible defensive player, and Fields isn't that good either. We'd have an exorbitant amount of strikeouts from Thome, Swisher and Fields. Dye and Konerko wouldn't be TOO far behind. Getz, I think, would be, at best, so-so his rookie year. The bottom of the line-up would be like the 2001/2002 version, with Mark Johnson/Royce Clayton or vice-versa. That was quite painful to watch.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 09:14 PM) Right now if I were a GM of another team, I'd freaking drool at the chance to buy Paulie low. The guy is an above average first baseman with a great contract. He showed that when healthy he is as productive as ever and he's been a very good post-season player (this post-season included). The guy was huge for the Sox down the stretch this year and I don't think I'd trade him without getting very good value. Thome would be a guy I'd consider moving, but he's just too cheap so really the only spots you can upgrade are 2B/3B/CF and the Sox may go in-house at one of those spots and need to move Swish to free up another one of those spots. Most teams would be neutral (at best) about a Konerko deal...coming off this season...and due to having to pay him $20+ million for two more years, when he's 32-35. Maybe a team losing out on Texiera would have to give him some consideration, and obviously he been a "money" player in the post-season.

QUOTE (Cubano @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 10:23 PM) I think having a Spanish speaking manager may be a big plus for the ChiSox. Communication and rapport is very important between a player specially a new player and the manager. It hasn't paid off yet for us in Venezuela...but there's hope yet. I think some fans thought Ozzie would magically be able to get Miggy Cabrera here by waving a magic wand. I do think his being a Spanish manager has led to some problems/confrontations with O-Cabrera. On the other hand, he's been a very good influence with Jose, Contreras has felt much more comfortable here than in NYC (also because of El Duque) and he also seems to have a great relationship with Alexei Ramirez (but that's more because of the way he plays the game, IMO, than his language). We'll see what happens if they get a Venezuelan. KW targeted Omar Vizquel for 2-3 off-seasons. I also think it's interesting that some of the players who were no longer wanted/had a falling out with the Sox were two of our best Latin players, Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez. Everyone liked and got along well with Jose Valentin...who was the kind of leader that O-Cabrera never became with this club. That said, it's not like NCAA basketball or football where this gives one a huge advantage...he's not an African-American coach like Jimmy Collins mining gold from the Chicago Public League.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 10:15 PM) Anyone know of any talk of Leslie Anderson defecting? I know he's huge over there, like superstar huge, leading me to believe that the scenario is unlikley, but if he did he's quite the talent. What kind of name is Leslie? I know Vladimir Guerrero was named after a Russian who was part of the presence there in Cuba/Caribbean during the Cold War (specifically 1961-1962), but I wonder if his name is because someone saw the Naked Gun umpiring sequence with Reggie Jackson and thought he should be named after Leslie Nielsen.

1) Kenny Williams' success with Ramirez just drove up the price of Viciedo big-time I think 2) The White Sox will not easily be able to sneak out with one of these guys...I wouldn't be shocked if we get outbid for all of them. Unless that player really targets the White Sox (because of the success of Contreras, El Duque and Ramirez) and says to Torres, that's where I want to play, kind of what Fukudome did with the Cubs. 3) I don't know what, if any, role someone like Contreras, Guillen or Ramirez could have in getting one of these guys. ??? 4) Viciedo would be the obvious choice right now 5) It also sounds like there's a lot of US Department of State, passport, citizenship/clearance issues to go muddle through...the other problem would be signing Viciedo and then him not being able to come to Spring Training or missing part of the season. The scouting department would really need to stay on top of that, and, from marrying a Russian, I know how complicated and unresponsive the government can be with visas. Especially with Cubans...so let's not get our hopes up yet until we hear something substantive about their status. 6) I love the way Cubans and Japanese play baseball, the positive impact on the White Sox this decade, and hope for more of the same. Especially the Cubans, because of their natural flair and athleticism. They're not very patient hitters (you don't get noticed in the DR, PR or Cuba for taking walks or having a high OBP!!!), but they bring a lot of interesting abilities and fundamentals training (especially those who grow up essentially playing on the national team) that US players seem to be lacking today.

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 06:34 PM) The best part about reading all of these posts are that people are looking in all the logical places for players who will be on our team next year. I keep reading Figgins, Brian Roberts, Beltre, Atkins, etc... I also keep reading that it'll be easy to trade for Figgins with Paulie, we can outdue the Cubs (and everyone else in MLB who wants a leadoff 2b) for Roberts, and the Mariners will give away Beltre, bla bla bla... First, the Angles do in fact have a decent alternative if they can't sign Texiera, and that's Kendry Morales. Some of you might laugh, but I would bet that the Angles brass would rather have have Morales bat .270 with 20 home runs and a cheap contract than Konerko and his .245 average with 25-30 home runs at $12 mil a year, especially since it would cost them Figgins... There will be a TON of teams after Roberts if he gets put on the trade block, and I would estimate it would take at a minimum Fields, Poreda, and someone like Shelby to beat what someone else might be willing to offer. Beltre will probably come the same as Roberts, as will Atkins. We might have the pieces for this, but I doubt Kenny goes that route unless he thinks he can sign Roberts to an extension. In my opinion, and I'm gonna be a little outside the box here, under the radar because that's how Kenny Williams operates, I think we won't end up with any of the big guns everyone's talking about. Rather I think you will see subtle moves that some will like and others won't, but moves that potentially have very high upside. Here is what I'm thinking... 1. I think we package a couple decent minor leaguers (let's say Ely and someone like Sisqo) for Rickie Weeks to fill our hole at 2b. Now i know what you're already thinking: "That injury prone, crappy average, crappy defense, hugely talented guy? No way, you're an idiot..." But this is precisely what the Quentin move was, a move for a once hugely heralded young talent that has hit some injuries and rough patches, and has played hurt, albeit Weeks has struggled a bit more than Quentin at this level. Maybe he needs a change in scenery and a chance to get healthy to fulfill his promise. You trade for him, let him get healthy, and once he is bat him 9th and start him. If nothing else he's a speedy power source at the bottom of the lineup, and Getz is always there as a backup in case it doesnt work out. Big upgrade over Uribe in the 9th spot, and if it works out ya move Beckham to 3rd, if not his replacement is in Chicago by 2010... 2. Sign an innings eater for the 5th starter spot to a 1 year deal, someone like Braden Looper, Paul Byrd, or Odalis Perez come to mind. Guys, we are not trading Javier Vasquez. Yea he might suck in big games but the guy is someone we can depend on to be effective enough over 200+ innings. As a 4th starter he's great. It would be nice to not have to force Clayton Richard into the 5th starter role, as he showed brilliant stuff in the playoffs out of the bullpen, and I think he would be UNREAL in the long relief/spot starter role, with an aim towards eventually grooming him for the rotation. Guys like Looper, Bryd, and Perez aren't always pretty, but they can keep your bullpen from getting taxed and often enough put you in position to win games. Also this move doesnt necessitate Contreres coming back to the rotation upon his return, which is a good thing. 3. I am of the frame of mind that we don't need to make a big splash on the trade market to get better. I actually think we can get better by addition through subtraction. Nobody is going to like this, but at this point I think trading Paulie for prospects will make us better. Before you criticize, hear me out. Paulie is our emotional leader offensively, but he's an aging 1b who bats .245 and hit 20-25 home runs with iffy defense, and those are easy to come by. You can convince some contending team looking for a 1b or a DH to take him I'm sure for a few prospects, and maybe the Angles will to spite having Morales. If Paulie were to accept a deal somewhere that leaves us with Swisher at 1b, who essentially should replicate Paulie's numbers with a little better defense and a bit more pop if given the playing time. I don't see us trading Dye either, he's Thome replacement as our DH after next year. 4. That leaves us with the leadoff question... who is that gonna be? I estimate that we let Crede go and start Josh Fields, with Getz playing super-sub at 2b and 3b. That would mean that our leadoff hitter is probably coming from center field... You could look at this a couple ways: we could go get a Jerry Hairston Jr type, trade for someone like Coco Crisp (horrible idea if we did, but would fit the CF with speed), or do what i know people think is a terrible move... just play Jerry Owens. Now look, I don't want to ever read that we should trade for Willy Tavaras, and somebody did post that and I puked all over my keyboard when i did... When Owens played in 2007 he struggled mightily at first, but got better and put up respectable numbers. In fact, his 2007 ratios in half a season where he sucked for most of it were better than Willy Tavaras's ratios from all of 2008. He can steal 50 bases, and he can do so batting .270, which is repsectable. Nobody in Tampa complains about Iwamura, and he really doesnt have great numbers. All you need is someone who can be disruptive. That's what Podsednik was in 2005, and that's certainly what Owens can be when he gets on base. Now i know his OBP will not be stellar, but he's still young, and if he gets regular PT maybe he can improve into a .270 avg, .340 OBP type that steals 50 bases, scores 100+ runs in this offense, and plays quality defense. I like the idea in this scenario of giving Jerry a chance to see what he can do, best case he's Tavaras or Pierre in their primes, worst case you go find an alternative at the deadline. So under my scenario we don't increase payroll, in fact we decrease it, and we get a whole lot younger, but I think we'll still be plenty competetive CF: Owens C: AJP LF: Quentin RF: Dye DH: Thome SS: Alexei 1b: Swisher 3b: Fields 2b: Weeks Bench: BA (OF), Getz (2b/3b), Hall ©, Wise (OF), Uribe (3b/SS) Staff: Buerhle, Floyd, Danks, Vasquez, Looper Pen: Richard (Longman, spot starter), Wasserman, Dotel, Linebrink, Thornton, Jenks Just my two cents trying to play the forecaster... 1) You're under the assumption that the Paulie who comes to ST is the same as the injured hand/oblique Konerko we had for the first four months of the season...he's already announced that he will really become dedicated to conditioning as his body caught up with him for the first time at 32. I expect a normal Konerko year, which is tons better than a "normal" Swisher year. It's not a negligible difference. I don't think you can just insert Swisher into the 3/4/5/6 spots in the batting order and assume Konerko numbers, certainly not close on the batting average. Again, this year was an anomaly for both players, but we know the specific reasons with Paulie. 2) Weeks is a definite possibility, if Milwaukee is ready to part ways with him....but so is Billy Hall, lol. Or JJ Hardy. I think it will take more than Sisco coming off major surgery to get him, though. 3) As far as Vazquez and the 5th starter situation, I agree this is most likely as a scenario. We won't go after Dempster, Sabathia, Burnett, etc. Nor should we, IMO. 4) I don't know how acquiring a veteran in CoCo Crisp with some pop and speed would be worse than playing Owens. Lest we forget, Jerry is not a very good defensive outfielder. We need to set the bar a little higher...the White Sox have tried for the last 3 years to avoid playing him in CF for a reason, and while he probably is better than Swisher and definitely better than Griffey, he doesn't have much of an arm either. That leaves us with, at best, an average LF in Quentin, an average to below average CF in Owens and an average to below average RF in Dye (because of his age and diminished range and the fact his arm and throwing mechanics aren't Retro 1996 variety these days). Speed players are always more fragile, and Owens seems that he's more susceptible (like Pods) to little nicks and bruises and pulls that completely nullify him as a threat. I'm not saying GET Taveras, he's only going to give you a .650 OPS, but that's misleading because of the automatic stolen bases giving him an extra 50 doubles per year. Count me in the corner of those who would prefer Taveras OVER Owens, but would like to see better options than either one if possible. I like Crisp, simply because he's already familiar with the AL (specifically the AL Central), and his power translates to a good combination of about 12-18 homers and 20-30 steals playing everyday.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 04:04 PM) A few things. *Richard is likely not a SP. He has a lot of value now as teams may gamble that he can be one. But if he fails as a SP, his value will drop off a lot. If the sox want to make some trades, they have to give up some decent players. I like Richard in the bullpen a lot. For that reason alone, he might be too valuable to trade. Yet he's not going to be the sox 5th starter and shouldn't be if the sox are trying to get back to the playoffs. *Beltre would be nice at 3b. But if the sox want a leadoff man [such as Roberts], most of their trade talent will go toward getting him. Same with Atkins and Kouzmanoff. Mora's bat would be nice. But his glove isn't there. If Crede's prognosis looks good, keep him around. *Duchsherer had a hip injury. If it was his arm, I'd be leery. The sox need another SP who could put Vazquez as the 5th starter. And then the sox would have Poreda as the next option in case someone goes down. *The sox need a speedy, good glove in CF. Esp. if Dye is in RF. While Taveras has holes, he'd fit the bill of speed at the bottom without sacraficing defense. The sox aren't going to find a CF who can steal bases, play solid defense and who can hit leadoff. Might as well get 2 of 3. But why would BB trade Duchscherer now, instead of waiting? #1, he's still on the DL, correct? Or no? Can he even be traded? He would have to clear a ton of physical exams from Sox doctors, and we've been on the other side of this situation with Mike Sirotka once before...it would be like KW trading Konerko, he could get a lot more coming off a normal, healthy, .285, 30+, 100+ RBI season than this one. Especially with the overvaluation of pitchers, he has no reason not to wait it out and rebuild his value.

There's too many question marks about Justin, Crede and Taveras to make those moves... Why are we trading away Clayton Richard, who actually showed something in the playoffs? Because he's a Sox pitching prospect and we simply believe that he will fail like every starter since Buehrle? I still don't trust taking an injured pitcher off the hands of BB...if he's healthy, he holds onto him for half the season while he re-establishes his league-leading ERA, if he's not 100% healthy or cleared by the doctors' exams, he's not going anywhere and Beane knows it. 1) Beltre 2) Casey Blake 3) Melvin Mora 4) Garrett Atkins 5) Kevin Kouzmanoff Any of those aforementioned would be better options than Crede/Uribe at 3B again in 2009 IMO. NOT TO MENTION THE MOST POPULAR CHOICE OF SOX FANS, CHONE FIGGINS!

If we trade Swisher and Dye (to get back the prospects enabling us to complete these deals), though, we're still short one outfielder. And we still have a huge problem in the back end of the rotation...not to mention if anyone from the rotation gets hurt. Then it's Broadway/Carrasco/H. Ramirez time. We have McLouth for CF and Quentin for LF or RF. I guess we could live with an Owens/Wise/Anderson platoon again, but I wouldn't like it a lot. Bringing in Hardy, Beltre and McLouth would be too much for me to believe. I will be surprised if we get more than one player of that caliber this off-season. Who knows, KW is always full of surprises.

So basically, a younger, cheaper, more reliable version of Dotel? I wouldn't mind losing Dotel's $6.5 million and putting it somewhere more productive, IF IF IF Milwaukee will bite. That's not a sure thing at all...especially with their sour experience with Gagne and realizing a castoff (the pitching equivalent of Carlos Pena) can get the job done more or less in Salomon Torres.

Cowley with essentially the same article...maybe more of a slam against OC, that's it. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox08.article

I'm not sure Egbert is so highly-valued outside of Sox message boards...maybe! Martinez is at least 3 years (or 2 1/2) away...I think the Mariners would be looking for AA impact players who could at least compete for starting jobs in 2009. It just depends upon their thinking. If you're their new GM, you'd have to think the fans would have only so much patience losing Ibanez (not getting anything back for him but draft picks) and then now trading Beltre. That doesn't leave them much left to market to the fans, just Ichiro, King Felix and Clement, who may or may not be a bust. I'm surprised that Bedard completely fell apart...and that they didn't move Putz at the deadline either. All things considered, the Twins can put together a better package...it all depends on how much the M's value Poreda as the centerpiece. The biggest weakness in all of these moves is the rotation. Relying on Freddy Garcia and Richard, and hoping Gavin doesn't fall back....that's a lot of IF'S there, when pitching has always been the most important predictor/determinant of Sox success over the last 9 years. I wouldn't be very comfortable at all unless I knew Garcia was throwing a sustainable 90-92 and not 86-89 MPH.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 01:13 AM) I actually would see Dotel going to Milwaukee in a deal. Short-term, good arm, good pitcher when he's on. Something like Vazquez, Dotel, Anderson for Hardy and Villanueva. Milwaukee would atleast have to consider it...they're adding about $15 mill in such a deal, but they have an absolute ton coming off the books. It would also free up money for the Sox to either take on a contract or splurge a bit in free agency. I'm actually not afraid of Hardy at all. He's just developed as a hitter is really all. It takes some guys a couple years. What's also really good to see with Hardy is that the past two seasons he's been an absolute stud in clutch situations. Most of his RISP, runners on, and high and medium leverage stats are good. He's actually a fantastic hitter in medium leverage spots. That's fine and dandy, but everyone always thinks the Rays will make Figgins available and I just don't necessarily understand why. I also think Roberts is going to be very expensive to trade for but I see the Sox in the race the whole time unless they strike a deal with someone of similar caliber before that. I'm also a bit scared of McLouth, though I do think he'd be fine; regardless, I don't think that has to be dealt with. It was stated on rotoworld a couple of days ago that the Pirates would only deal McLouth if someone wanted to overpay for him. What are "medium leverage" spots? Starting to sound like the whole derivatives/CDO "leverage" language that got us into this whole banking mess. Well, Villanueva would be another candidate for the 5th spot and long reliever role. I don't know much about him, he seems to have a good arm, but giving up more hits than IP scares me a little in the NL. I do like the idea of turning over the roster and getting younger. Swisher was the first step in that direction, he's 27. Ramirez just turned 27. Quentin's 26. Then we have Danks, Floyd, Buehrle, Jenks and Thornton (a young 32!). I don't worry about Thornton breaking down at all with that motion. Knock on wood. 27-30 is the prime for most players (not on steroids), so we're setting ourselves up well for an extended run if we can find four more high impact players like KW unearthed over the last 12-24 months in the offseason. Konerko is 32 and is finally admitting his body and time are catching up with him (Trib article tonight) and he has to be better conditioned physically/athletically during the offseason, instead of just concentrating on swing mechanics. That's a positive revelation from Paulie. I think we'll be fine with AJ for at least 2 more seasons as well. Thome is Thome...we'll have him for one more year I am sure. It really does point to a move with Dye, from a logic standpoint, although moving Konerko wouldn't surprise me either...well, just a bit.

QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 12:41 AM) agreed the brewers have a limited window in the sense that their young core is going to price themselves out of their reach and then they will have to pick and choose whom they want to build around going forward(braun). Javy at 11.5 for two years could shore up their staff and take some preasure off their young arms an BP your going to get 200IP and 200K and moving to the NL could help a bit too. Escobar could be ready to start at the bigs going into '09 making it a shrewd move to trade JJ. The more i think about possibilites for this offseaon i would love for the sox to just get the following. McLouth, Beltre, Hardy and sign Freddy and roll with it. hopefully G-Beckham can slot into 3B going into '10 even if their is some growing pains at the ML level and then we've got a core to lock up and push for the central for the next 6+ years if KW is smart and locks them up like so many other young stars. I can see the following teams having interest in Dye: Dodgers, Reds, Yankees, Rays, Angels Wow...we're going to have to give up a ton of talent to get McLouth (Poreda + ?), Beltre (Fields and what else?) and Hardy (Vazquez + ???) Are you going to get these using prospects from the Angels acquired for Dye? Who would be the 4th and 5th starters then? I'm assuming you have Swisher and Quentin playing the corners?