caulfield12

QUOTE (whitesox32 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 08:35 PM) if the tigers starters can get back to form they can be tough again too with verlander, bonderman, gallaraga, robertson, and the newly acquired edwin jackson. there are a lot of question marks there though. plus they don't have a closer and it doesn't look like they can afford one Bonderman's health/return is definitely in question, as is Robertson's being a productive pitcher. Then there's D. Willis, and Verlander's pitch counts over the last 2-3 seasons. I'll take Meche, Greinke, Bannister, Hochevar/Torres right now over any team in the division but MIN (and maybe over them even) based on potential.

QUOTE (MO2005 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 07:33 PM) This team definitely needs one or two starters! I was o.k. with trading Vazquez, but I have to admit it throws off our whole rotation. But if you look at out division, the only rotation that scares me a little is Cleveland. They still got Carmona, Westbrook back after injury, of course Lee, and now add Wood to their bullpen. Westbrook is supposed to be out until at least mid-season...has that changed?

Couch agrees with KW on "rebuilding" project...worth reading http://www.suntimes.com/sports/couch/13255...-greg11.article DeRosa to Twins as part of Peavy deal? A list of prospects would be given to the Cubs for the Padres approval before a deal would be made. DeRosa would likely play second in Minnesota, with young second baseman Alexi Casilla moving to short. DeRosa could also play third or the outfield for the Twins, who would use his versatility the same the Cubs have. Why is DeRosa being shopped after being such a valuable piece of a 97-win season? First of all, he's going to be a free agent after this season and figures to command a much larger contract than the three-year, $13 million deal he signed after the 2006 season. DeRosa was arguably the Cubs' biggest bargain last year at $4.75 million, and will make a relatively modest $5.5 million in '09. chicagotribune.com/sports

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:29 AM) Chris Carter's power has been compared to Ryan Howard's, though that's a bit extreme; it still paints a picture. That's who Williams gave up to get Quentin, and Quentin was coming off an injury plagued season as it was. Williams really isn't savvy per se, he merely goes out and gets the guys he wants and isn't afraid to pay the price to get it. It's been a while since I've seen Williams make a big trade and knew right off the top of my head the Sox were the winners, perhaps since the Bartolo Colon trade prior to 2003. of course, borchard was compared to McGwire and Mickey Mantle....and Adam Dunn, lol

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:26 AM) and they still have 4 other starters too. I'm not as high on Liriano as most, but he was dominant when he came up last year and they have a loaded rotation. As of this second, and I know a lot is going to change, the Twins are probably the favorites to win the division. I think you have to consider Perkins and Blackburn as question marks, and Slowey a combination of Maddux and Sonnanstine. Can he continue to pitch as well as he did with his stuff? We'll see. They certainly look stronger than the White Sox as of this instant. Then you consider Humber, Mulvey (from Mets) and I think one other AA/AAA starter who's drawing a lot of interesting at the Winter Meetings (think his names ends in a vowel)

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:24 AM) This is true. He faced CLE x2, KC x3, SEA x2, OAK x2, DET once and TB once. Out of his 11 2nd half starts, he struck out more than 5 only 4 times, and got raped once by KC and once by CLE when it mattered most. His best start was 7 innings vs TB where he gave up 1 run on 5 hits and struck out 7 but walked 4. I don't think the win against TB was when they were in the midst of their terrible slump...was it?

Yes, but look at who most of those starts were against... He somehow ended up missing almost all of the really good teams in the AL. I think his most impressive win was beating up the Indians when they were in one of their patented 2nd half hot streaks to look respectable. However, in the biggest start of his career, he was roughed up by the Royals, which was one of the most important losses of the season in tipping the division back in our direction. I'm yet to be convinced he's even close to the same pitcher. I think half his results were intimidation/name factor from 2006 and the fact that he was facing almost all "inferior" AL teams and not pitching against any contending teams....maybe once or twice in those 11 starts. He beat the Rays and a hot Indians team on the road. In his other nine starts, KC three times (including the crucial loss the final weekend), Detroit (dead team walking, was a good offense earlier before they phoned it in), Oakland twice and Seattle twice (and a second Indians' start). Those were arguably the three of the worst offenses (along with TOR) in the AL for most of last season.

Not the old Valentin/Clayton argument!!!!! Agreed, Valentin made a lot of errors on routine plays (just like Alexei Ramirez did this season, especially in the second half) but his range (whether measured by RF or your eyeballs) and his superior arm more than made up for it. I don't have the game by game tracker from 2000, but I think the majority of errors he gave up didn't result in unearned runs, certainly most of them didn't cost the team victories. Clayton, like Cabrera, made the routine plays more easily, but there were probably 50 balls that he either couldn't reach or his arm wasn't strong enough to get the out but which end up as outs with Valentin's arm and range. This argument could go on and on forever. KW, eventually gave in and dealt Myette for Clayton and tried the ill-fated Valentin in CF experiment, which ended up getting Jose injured. Clayton and Mark Johnson formed the worst bottom duo of any modern-day baseball line-up in history, making Taveras look like Pujols/Bonds.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:02 AM) Paul Konerko is more likely to hit a home run than he is to ground into a double play in that spot. Meanwhile, Carl Everett is more likely to ground into a double play than he is hitting a sacrifice fly, though not in the one extreme scenario you highlighted. 2008 - Konerko 22 HR, 17 GIDP 2005 - Everett 10 SF, 11 GIDP You are using a case of extremes in this situation, and it's very likely that the Sox would have gotten atleast 1 and perhaps 2 or 3 in scenario 1. And besides all of that, you are looking at the probability of an event happening in a single scenario, when baseball is and always will be a game of averages. Can you isolate that statistic for occasions when Konerko came up to bat with runners on 1st or runners on 1st and 2nd (or bases loaded)...whether he was more likely to GIDP, single or hit a homer? Weren't many of his HR's solo shots? Also, with Konerko, last year was something of a statistical anomaly because of his injuries which wiped out the first half of the season. The player we saw for the last 6 weeks or so was the "healthy/normal" Konerko IMO.

I think Marquez was the #8 prospect for the Yankees, maybe as recently as coming into 2008 or 2007. The Royals, with Meche, Greinke, Bannister, Davies, Hochevar/Torres and the Indians Lee, Carmona, Reyes, Lewis, Sowers/Laffey/Jackson would appear to also at least have the potential to be very strong rotations, IF IF IF they pitch up to their potential. From looking at it objectively, the Royals might have the best rotation in our division if Hochevar and Torres pitch as well as expected (unless Liriano gains his 2006 form and not the 2008 version after surgery).

I don't think signing Juan Cruz or Lyon and giving up Type A compensation is going to fly with KW, not after having "sweated out" whether Cabrera was going to accept or not.

Where will Cabrera and Uribe end up? Crede? These are the best available options currently in the market for a SS. Dodgers Blue Jays Royals A's Twins Orioles Indians It would be funny if the Indians had two Cabreras in their line-up, to go with Detroit's Cabrera. Although I feel that the Indians will move Asdrubal Cabrera over to SS and the Twins will move Alexi Casilla instead of spending money on a Jack Wilson or David Eckstein type of player.

Well, if we did end up trading Dye for Bailey and a prospect, we'd have a payroll approaching the $70 million mark, only about $5 million above the 2005 championship team. We'd have chopped off about 40% of the team's payroll from 2008. I will believe it when I see it when the Cubs acquire Peavy and we go into the season with Getz/Lillibridge/Betemit, Owens/Anderson/Lillibridge, Fields/Viciedo/Betemit and Marquez/Poreda/Richard as the missing pieces at those positions.

The Twins were able to get away with it with Blackburn and Perkins at their 4/5 with the likes of Livan Michelin Man Hernandez getting the majority of starts before Liriano was finally brought back up (too late). I wouldn't go as far as to say that Richard/Marquez are/were similarly regarded, but you can certainly say that most scouts believe Poreda will have a bigger impact than G. Perkins (with the continued development of his secondary pitches, one caveat).

That was the zenith career-wise of all those pitchers...that season. We had Eldred make a huge contribution early on, Wells flopped, Garland was thrown in the mix with Buehrle as well. I think they even tried Ginter down the stretch, taking him off the Olympic team's roster, and Jon Rauch loomed as the best pitching prospect in all of baseball. Biddle, Josh Fogg, Danny Wright and Lorenzo Barcelo weren't far behind.

''Everyone wants to come up with a reason why they believe we will listen to overtures,'' Ken Williams told the Sun-Times. ''Then all of a sudden, I'm shopping someone. If I didn't listen, that would be a sign of incompetence.'' Williams contends he was approached by representatives of several teams about Jenks and agreed to listen. Another team rumored to be asking about Jenks was the Milwaukee Brewers, who are in the market for a closer. ''[Jenks] doesn't throw 100 mph anymore, so what?'' Williams said. ''The short story is Bobby Jenks is one of the best closers in the game. ''I'll never deny that there hasn't been one player in eight years that I said, 'I won't listen to you about him.' Carlos Quentin almost won the MVP this year, and if someone calls, I'll listen. If someone wants to do something stupid, I'll let them.'' The Sox will begin grooming right-hander Jhonny Nunez, whom they acquired from the New York Yankees in the Nick Swisher deal, for a possible closer role, but he might be a few years away -- about the time Jenks is a free agent. ''We like [Nunez],'' Williams said. ''He can factor into the mix at some point this season.'' Pitching coach Don Cooper said he hasn't lost sleep over Jenks' velocity dipping. ''What's not to like about this guy?'' Cooper said. ''If someone out there is trying to cut down my guy, stop right there. He's become a pitcher. He's not out there trying to win Kewpie dolls. ''The strikeouts are down because no one wants to be 0-2 against him and let Bobby have them by the [throat].'' But even with all the love going out to Jenks, manager Ozzie Guillen offered a warning. ''I worry about Bobby being in shape for spring training,'' Guillen said. ''But worry about his velocity? No, because Bobby can still pitch. Sometimes he was not 97 or 98, but he still got people out. He was not consistent, but I worry about him maintaining his shape. Not for me, not for the club, but for him. ''I always talk to him and say, 'If you take care of yourself, you're going to be a rich man.''' And sooner than later. The Sox have a record of avoiding arbitration hearings, choosing instead to negotiate extensions with their players. Talks with Jenks will begin soon. ''Bobby,'' Williams said, ''he's our guy.'' suntimes.com

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 12:13 AM) 2005 Chicago White Sox Scored 741 runs, Allowed 645 runs. 2008 Chicago White Sox Scored 811 runs, Allowed 729 runs Huh, so what have we learned today? I think record in 1 and 2 run games is just as important, if not more important, than run differential. Throw out the 2006 stats and I bet you'll see an even greater spread than 2005 or 2008. For that matter, you can also include 2000 for comparison's sake. Those teams would score 10 runs one night and get shut out the next by an ace, crafty lefthander, journeyman, unknown rookie or someone we'd never scouted before.

According to MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan, the Twins inquired on Rangers reliever Joaquin Benoit. Sullivan says the Twins are willing to trade Boof Bonser. I suppose this could have appeal to the Rangers in that Bonser could be a rotation candidate. Benoit, 31, posted a 5.00 ERA in 45 innings this year while battling shoulder issues. He's set to earn $3.5MM plus games finished incentives in '09 before becoming eligible for free agency. Bonser is under team control through 2012.mlbtraderumors PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE make this move Minnesota. Have they lost their minds? They can't spend money for Furcal/Cabrera, Crede or Blake, but they think Benoit is the answer to their Crain/Guerrier/Bonser/Bass mess from RH set-up. Interesting!!!

Beckham 10% stays at SS in the big leagues, 20% 3B, 70% at second base. I don't think we'll move Viciedo off 3B for Beckham. I think we'll have to figure out 1) if Viciedo's bat is ready to justify a spot in the line-up in LF or RF or possibly 1B and 2) that can't happen before ST.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 12:48 AM) Yeah they did all that.....and finished 1 game behind the lowly Sox anyway. For whatever reason, when the twins suck ass for a month or strikeout 400 times in a game it doesn't mean the same thing as it does for the Sox The Twins still have a better head to head record against us this decade, and one more division crown... Let's put it this way, with all the payroll disadvantages they have, that's pretty amazing. However, both ballclubs have been built to optimize the playing conditions on their home fields. Neither system is "better" and the White Sox certainly have the trump card in the World Series title in 05, but they've played us to a standstill with their system equalizing our talent, especially from 2001-2004. Usually, it's more about pitching and defense and less about offense when you compare these two teams and which one is better on a year-to-year basis.

KW has been consistently saying the same thing. What else can they say, at this point? They can't comment on a player who's not even on their roster. I mean, if they said Lillibridge or Getz would be leading off, that would 1) put a lot of pressure on those two youngsters already and 2) scare quite a few people who only have a superficial knowledge of White Sox baseball and prospects.

He looks good on paper, statistically? Pittsburgh would ask for a ton in return. He's anywhere from adequate/below average to great in CF, depending on who you talk to. I think he received quite a few Gold Glove votes in CF. But it's the same old problem, we're going to have to give up Fields and Poreda (or something like that) to get him. Well, if you're going to spend the money in the FA market on pitching, that's fine, but it also seems suicidal from our new financial-first perspective.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3670284.story Quotes from Ozzie's PC about "these kids can play version 2"

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 12:07 AM) Welcome!!! Who would you have play 1st for the Sox? Viciedo or Fields??? Probably not Thome. Dye, theoretically.

Not THAT offense, obviously. But not a completely one-dimensional offense either. The fact that you have the ability to manufacture a run and take an early lead was a lot of the psychological advantage of that team, the confidence they had, knowing if they could just score a run or two early, the bullpen and starting pitching were just that good. With our pitching this year, as it looks, not quite as germane or important...but still, we have to evolve away from all-or-nothingness.