caulfield12

Remember when a determined poster here looked up all of Cabrera's steals and showed how meaningless most of those 19 were? I bet if you look at the first 2-3 months of the White Sox offense in 2005...and combinations of times when Pods got on, stole a base or was moved to 2nd or 3rd by Iguchi bunting or hitting to the opposite field and driving a ball deep into the OF, you'll notice something quite interesting. How many games in a row did we score an early run to take a lead? How many of those games did we win by 1-2 runs because of our emerging lockdown bullpen???

I don't know why anyone's surprised we are not going after Furcal. Alexei Ramirez is younger than Furcal and will be making little over $1 million for year to play that "premium" position for three more seasons. Alas, Alexei is not a leadoff hitter (at this point, and probably ever), but KW still has 2-3 months to work on CF and the rotation. I'm "pretty" convinced KW will actually go with Fields at 3B (at least to start the season) and our 2B-by-committee approach instead of trading away any of our top prospects for a one-year Roberts rental (theoretically with Type A draft pick compensation). The wild card in this entire situation is Viciedo, and the possible early breakthrough of Beckham as well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 06:58 PM) Not when you add in potentially losing our #1 draft pick as well. Well, at least it's only two years. I certainly wouldn't sign Jon Garland to that same contract, even though that's probably what he is asking for, too. I guess the positive with Garland is that he's Type B...but still. And either one of these deals would be better than taking on Peavy's contract. By the way, when is Ozzie's press conference with the media? It was moved back to today from Monday.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....-wood-appe.html Has this become official yet? Kerry Wood to the Indians, 2 years guaranteed, with a "vesting option" for a 3rd?

The Twins have had internal discussions about San Diego’s Kevin Kouzmanoff, Houston’s Ty Wigginton and Florida’s Jorge Cantu. What I couldn’t clarify is if the Twins have talked to these teams here or have scheduled talks yet. All it takes is a phone call to get something going. Cantu is only 26 but isn’t strong defensively. Was told some Twins think Kouzmanoff is fine defensively while others are skeptical. And the Twins were very interested in Wigginton in 2007. There is one report that Nick Punto met with the Phillies yesterday. If that’s true, Punto could indirectly help the Twins because he could be insurance for Chase Utley and Pedro Feliz, who are coming back from surgeries. That might help the Twins’ efforts to pry Jason Donald away. Just my theory. Was told that Phillies manager Charlie Manuel is very fond of Punto. Jack Wilson remains somewhere on the Twins radar, although the Pirates are in no rush to move him and likely would want a couple decent young players in return. And the Twins aren’t the only team grimacing at Wilson’s salary. Ron Gardenhire will meet the press at 6 pm CST. There are a lot of people here who think Twins’ first-round pick Aaron Hicks is an uber prospect. Some still think highly of him as a pitcher - he did hit 97 on the gun as a senior in high school. The Twins drafted him as an outfielder. Boof Bonser has hired a trainer again this offseason and is working out - again. The Twins’ medical staff is being kept up to date on his progress. Several teams have asked about Bonser, who could get another shot to start if traded. Torii Hunter will hold a press conference here at 1:15 pm - with Andre Agassi. The two are hooking up on a youth charity initiative. Can’t wait to see those two bald heads next to each other. startribune.com The market for Ben Sheets apparently is 2 years, $26 million, guaranteed, and the Yankees are preparing to make an offer in that neighborhood. Anyone interested? That's a bigger commitment than we had on the books to Javy for a much better pitcher (when healthy), but one without Javy's durability.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 06:41 PM) Cortes is a good prospect. It makes me sick we gave him up for MacDougal. Well, maybe the Royals will get something out of him. They got Greinke's career turned around after he almost quit pitching to mow lawns (it had nothing to do with wanting to be on a winning team, it was http://www.furiousseasons.com/movabletype/...?entry_id=1451), Brian Bannister pitched above expectations for most of the season and Kyle Davies was a revelation after being left for dead by the Braves (along with Horacio Ramirez). Now, if they can only get similar results out of Hochevar and Cortes, they'll be in real business. Of course, Tyler Lumsden was a huge disappointment considering his position in the draft as well.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 06:31 PM) Well he has a better overall package of pitches than Poreda, is younger than Poreda and spent the entire year in AA. The numbers while better overall for Poreda, were not that dissimilar. Cortes also has a solid fastball. Beckham hasn't had a full season in the minors and Viciedo has never played American ball. Based on all of this, it is fair to rate Cortes higher. And no offense, these people have probably seen more of the prospects than any of us, so it is also fair to say they have a more educated opinion. Not saying I agree with it, but it isn't ludicrous. I stand by my original point. It has been 9 years now since a White Sox starting pitching prospect really amounted to something. I guess I'm just waiting for KW to be burned just once in this area (and no, it wasn't trading Brandon McCarthy, as many worried one day late in December).

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 05:10 PM) Our current payroll is about $88M. But essentially, it's less becase of the money coming from Philly still for Thome, yes? So around $82 in actuality? Then $70 million if Dye is traded...

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 03:46 PM) Daniel Cortes is a top 50 prospect in all of baseball and was given up for MacDougall. Well, MLB has him rated ahead of Poreda, Beckham and Viciedo...they have no idea what they are talking about, at all. Clueless.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 02:20 PM) I had heard that the Sox were willing to offer 4/32 to OC Fortunately, Alexei Ramirez is about $27-28 million cheaper. I go back to KW's quotes from Monday...he's past the point as a GM that he's trying to "sell the team," do spin/PR or convince anyone (especially the media or SoxFest) that he's right. We might all have a problem with Kenny Williams, but that's not going to factor into his thinking, ever. It's just not the way he thinks, which is kind of refreshing, to see that kind of trust and independence because of the relationship he's forged with JR and Ozzie.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 02:09 PM) Rasner made his strides last season but is I believe subject to the minor league phase of the Rule-5 draft. If he's back he'll spend next season in Birmingham as a 22-year-old so he's still got a chance. The real Garland was very valuable until he started getting paid eight figures to put up ERA's north of 4.50. He's still a good pitcher and an innings eater and I'd more than welcome him back on a 3 year, $25-27M deal to be a 5th starter, but that's unlikely. He'll get more than that. Same thing with Furcal...who made $13 million and expected 3 years and $39 this time around. Garland made $12 million in 2008 with an ERA hovering right around 5...still, for him to go all the way down to $8.33-9.0 million per season would be a shock. He's 29 and very durable. The other pitchers in his tier (Penny, Wolf, O. Perez, Pettitte, Moyer) all have significant age/injury/inconsistency issues.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 02:58 PM) That's what I've heard about almost every teams' interest in him. I think he and/or his agent made a huge financial mistake rejecting arbitration. Have you sent your personlized "thank you/Christmas" card to KW yet? It shouldn't be THAT surprising though....out of all those guys, only two "middling" relief pitchers accepted arbitration. Cabrera's ego is too big to swallow his pride like that, especially with countryman Renteria getting 2 years and $18.5 million from SFG.

So if they missed the playoffs, the White Sox would have also traded Konerko/Thome, Buehrle and AJ away as well? Up until now, everything that I've seen is pretty logical and consistent with KW's philosophies about getting younger/more affordable/more flexibility without giving up a chance to be competitive in our division this year or into the future. After 2007, it looked like it would be at least 3-5 years before the ballclub could win another division title. I also think we're temporarily forgetting about Poreda, Viciedo (biggest FA signing for an under 21 year old in history), Flowers, Jord. Danks and Beckham looming, not to mention Brandon Allen and all the draft picks in 2009.

Since when has running the White Sox ever been presented to us as anything but trying to break even or not dip into the personal wealth of any of the managing directors? To speculate about losing on investments or the stock market or real estate being the cause of a "firesale" is a bit premature. Has Williams done anything illogical that none of would have done were we in the same situation? If Dye actually is traded and we go with our current roster without any additions to the mix, then you MIGHT have a point. You also have to consider how far we were over budget (compared to attendance) in 2007 and 2008...I'm guessing the team spent more money than it made both of the last two seasons.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:46 PM) Buh? Buehrle? Garland (from Cubs)? Any number of relievers? Yes, you have to go back 9-10 years to Buehrle and Garland, and Garland didn't start with us and spent very little time in the minors before coming up in 2000 at age 19/20. I guess you can count Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, Rocky Biddle and Danny Wright as amounting to something if you wish (or even Rauch/Majewski)...but since then, zippo, except for McCarthy. Even Frank Francisco spent a lot more time with the Red Sox than the White Sox before we flipped him for Everett.

Just like Josh Rupe was the "wildcard" when we traded him...or Matt Guerrier was going to be "the next Maddux" according to McClendon and the Pirates' GM at the time. Yeah, they really ripped off KW and gave up that Marte kid, who they weren't even going to keep on the roster because of a numbers game in the bullpen. If Carlos Torres lights the world on fire with the Royals, it will be the first time a young White Sox starting prospect has amounted TO ANYTHING this decade, unless you want to count Brandon McCarthy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:35 PM) How about a Healthy Contreras? I think healthy Linebrink, Contreras, God might have done it. Even as a 4th starter down the stretch, Contreras would probably have shown some bigger cojones than Vazquez, and that would have given us so much more flexibility to dump Richard in to games that Vazquez started early, etc. Forgot about him going down with the Achilles' injury in that Red Sox series. I was saying to myself at that exact point in time, the White Sox chances this season are toast...

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) and at this rate, we wont sniff a playoff game for at least 5 years. I am not sayig its cubs v sox, but look waht they are doing up there and look what we are unloading down here. Ummm....that's what I would have said last year at this time as a Twins' fan. We just gave up the best pitcher in the game for Carlos Gomez basically (at least to this point, Humber and Mulvey haven't done much), we lost our most important veteran leader in Torii Hunter, we've signed Livan Hernandez as our biggest offseason deal and Brad Radke has retired, yet somehow we're going to go down to the final game of the season + 1. Oh, yeah, and we've traded away what might have been our best young pitcher (along with Liriano), our underrated shortstop for "headcase" Delmon Young.

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) and at this rate, we wont sniff a playoff game for at least 5 years. I am not sayig its cubs v sox, but look waht they are doing up there and look what we are unloading down here. A lot depends on who acquires them. As has been mentioned a boatload of times, the combination of Soriano, Dempster and Fukudome might be the worst triumvirate of long-term deals in the game to go sour simultaneously. I can't remember the particulars with Ramirez and D. Lee off the top of my head, but they've got huge commitments for the future, and even the Cubs' vaunted revenue streams will be challenged without a new ballpark and constant playoff disappointment. In our own division, only Dontrelle Willis and Sheffield come close, but those guys aren't signed for nearly as many years as the Cubs' group.

We were a healthy Linebrink, a healthy Quentin, a better leadoff hitter, a healthy 2005-ish Crede (although I think we could have made it with Uribe, probably, the way he was playing defense and hitting there at the end) and exchanging a "bulldog" like Garland/Garcia as 4th for Vazquez away from being a World Series team. You could probably also add in there "normal/career average" seasons from Konerko and Swisher respectively.

1:10pm: Roman Modrowski of the Chicago Sun-Times says Peavy sang "Go Cubs, Go" at a Vegas bar last night. Good times. Kerry Wood likely signing to be Indians' closer now, instead of with the Tigers. Some crazy team is going to give Derek FREAKING Lowe $80 million over 5 years. Now I know why Jon Garland turned down arbitration with the Angels. Geez, that's a lot of Lowe at this stage in his career, especially if he goes back to the hitter-friendly AL. And Jamie Moyer asking for $20 million over 2 years.

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:17 PM) KW is getting suckered again, time to blame the media or "leaks" in the organization. Well, whatever happened (or didn't happen last offseason), it turned out okay for us, right? How is he being suckered? Because you happen to believe we're trading him for just Edwin Jackson? Or can you provide more examples of KW being suckered during his regime (besides the Todd Ritchie trade, or Durham for Adkins)?

We can be PRETTY SURE that either Reyes or Morton were turned down as the final piece of the Vazquel deal. If KW was talked out of acquiring "a major league ready pitcher" for Santos Rodriguez and Gilmore, why would he turn around and then acquire one of them, especially when that's EXACTLY what he was APPARENTLY looking for in order to fill out our rotation at that point, or at the very least, provide depth with Marquez/CR/AP?

According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pursuit of right-hander AJ Burnett. mlbtraderumors

Ummmm.....no, but we didn't expect to win the World Series coming out of Spring Training '05, or compete for a division title in 2008. Second, Dye hasn't been traded for Bailey, not yet at least. Third, KW knows what he's doing better than anyone here. Wait until you seen the Opening Day roster, then you can make whatever comments you want to make about being able to compete in 2009. Even then, KW almost always make an adjustment at mid-season to give us one final "cog" to make a run. I guess 2006 was one of the few exceptions, when he relied on the word of Thome, Paulie and Dye that they didn't need to add anything. Fourth, we lost Valentin, Ordonez and Carlos Lee one off-season and won it all the next year. We haven't lost considerably more this offseason. Swisher was a part-time player, Crede was injured, Uribe is/was Uribe, Cabrera was so-so, just like Vazquez. Now I'll agree that trading Dye would cut deeper, but just wait and see what he does with the savings...there's a lot of other options like Dunn, Abreu, Ibanez, Griffey, Juan Rivera, Milton Bradley, J. Hermida. KW needs to sign at least one FA to replace some of the offensive firepower lost. Fifth, it was just last season we were coming off 72 wins, things looked completely bleak (DET and CLE looked like world-beaters), and we missed out on Torii Hunter, Miguel Cabrera, Fukudome (lucky for us) and Aaron Rowand, just to name a few. I don't think any fans torched the message boards then, and they won't now, especially coming off a Central Division crown.