caulfield12

I think Octavio Dotel making $6.5 million as a set-up man would qualify as well...that's a lot of money to pay someone who's not the closer, not to mention the money committed to MacDougal, Linebrink and Thornton. If anything, it was a reaction (or overreaction to some) to the 2006 and 2007 seasons, in terms of correcting past philosophical mistakes of going "cheap" on the bullpen and throwing lots of "good arms" without much experience into the melting pot and hoping to strike gold with a couple of them (like Aardsma and Sisco, for example)

In fact, trading Dye could clear the way for the Sox to go after a free agent such as Milton Bradley or Rocco Baldelli, as well as add a veteran starting pitcher on the cheap. A major-league source told the Sun-Times not to be surprised to see Freddy Garcia back in a Sox uniform in spring training if his current ''aches'' subside. The Sox know what they get with Garcia, and he'd love to be reunited with Ozzie Guillen. But for now, Williams was adamant that there's one way to build a team: his. ''It doesn't matter in terms of our planning what the outside world thinks,'' Williams said. ''I'm sorry, and that's putting it very bluntly, but if I reacted to all the things the public and media wanted us to do, we'd be in a much different place than we are now.'' cowley, suntimes.com/sports On the Jermaine Dye "situation" "From a personal standpoint, I make no bones about it," Williams said of Dye. "He's a good man. And I consider him a friend. "But there's going to come a day, soon here, whether it's the next year or the year after that when all of your players, no matter how close you are with them, all of your players are going to have to be transitioned into a different aspect of life." "And I'd like to think we do it well and we'll continue to operate in this fashion," said Williams, who has shifted gears from past years when he traded prospects for veterans. "But now we have to build something that, yes, we can win in 2009 and sustain a new young core as we move into the future." Williams reiterated the lack of bona fide leadoff hitters available and endorsed Jerry Owens as a candidate, although Owens was beset by injuries in 2008 after stealing 32 bases in 93 games in 2007. "I'm not so quick to forget guys that have a lot of potential and a lot of talent and fall off for whatever reason," Williams said. "We've made a pretty good living here to take advantage off those situations." mark gonzales/chicagotribune.com

Well, yes, by definition, all of the players we brought in before 2005 were "complementary." L. Vizcaino El Duque (I think he was the MOST expensive, around $5.5-6.5 million?) Tad Iguchi (KW never even saw him play in person, just went off videotape) AJ (had worn out his welcome quickly in SF) Jermaine Dye (coming off injury, uncertain future at that point after the broken leg and other injuries) Dustin Hermanson Scott Podsednik Of course, the main difference is we didn't sign any of them or bring them in on LONG-TERM (3+ years) FA deals and they certainly weren't making anywhere close to $10 million per season...El Duque was the closest.

Michael Jordan's father, etc. I lived in Colombia for one year (05-06), so I can only say that these guys (and their families) are very high profile, and easy targets for kidnappers or those looking for a ransom, unless things go awry, which usually happens. Remember the whole Uribe shooting incident last year? Of course, Guillen's good friend (maybe best friend) Gus Polidor was killed, and Ugueth Urbina was kidnapped but also jailed for murder. I really wish Ozzie would at least have a driver/bodyguard down there with him, not that this can prevent a superior, well-trained force from taking someone...Ozzie's kind of like, if we change our lives or make concessions, we "let the terrorists" win, it's his home, and I guess it's worth the risk to him to spend time down there, until something happens to one of his family members.

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 10:32 PM) Why yes! And, when spending time in Mexico, he throws only a tick or two less than Bobby Jenks! Are you making a joke about Nick Masset? Or Jon Adkins? Or Felix Diaz?

Furcal or Hudson for 2 years, 3 tops...that might be okay. Still, in this type of economy, no way in H--- will KW go anything close to 4-5 years or $10 million per season on Orlando Hudson. Like David DeJesus, he's a nice complementary player to have, but he's not a superstar by any stretch of the imagination, and KW's posture is that we can get a much much cheaper approximation in Lillibridge. Moving Hudson to CF makes him even less valuable, exposes him to any number of injuries and just doesn't make any long-term sense. KW, the FO and the scouts know where they are envisioning Beckham's major league positional home, and if it's 2B, then Hudson isn't a logical move.

Brent Lillibridge over the River Kwai....I'm not so far from it here in Thailand, thought I'd go with the old Boomer Berman nicknames approach.

If we traded Konerko for some reason, then I think it's going to come down to fielding ability over there between Allen and Flowers, which would obviously favor Allen at this point in their careers. I'd hate to waste Viciedo's arm strength at 1B...3B or RF would be more ideal, if possible destinations. Fields goes from an offensive "plus" at 3B to so-so/mehhh at 1B, kind of like Swisher would have been had he stayed and Paulie was traded.

Hopefully he's better than Carlos Lee defensively, at either 3B or LF/RF. He certainly has better arm strength than Caballo at least.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 10:15 PM) No, none of that is my point. I don't think it's out of the question that Lillibridge bounces back after a down year after being bought low on. I think that's more likely than the idea that he suddenly faded into oblivion actually. He could be no more than a bench player, he could be a MLB starter, who knows. In any case we are ruining Heads's thread. Well, SUPPOSEDLY, he was battling a wrist injury/nagging problem and he adjusted his swing (as is normal, to compensate for injury to play through it, especially when given a legit shot to start in the big leagues) and ended up completely messing his mechanics up. That's the KW story at least.

QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 09:11 PM) "Williams added that recently acquired catcher Tyler Flowers has the ability to hit on the major league level now. Flowers is likely to start the season at Double-A Birmingham." This intrigued me. I wonder if we'll see Flowers as a DH in Chicago in 2010, before we see him as a catcher replacing AJ? Obviously, he has 5X more value if he can catch at least "adequately," so you'd hope they wouldn't rush him, but Viciedo, Flowers and possibly Fields would be the best internal candidates to replace Thome in 2010.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:43 PM) And they're going to add a closer in the next few weeks. Can they afford K-Rod, Fuentes or even Wood in Detroit's future economy? There are a ton of names out there, though, like Putz, Isringhausen, Cordero, Valverde, Brandon Lyon, Hoffman, Juan Cruz...I guess they'll end up with someone. Hopefully his name is Joe Borowski or Armando Benitez.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:37 PM) anybody that thinks the Tigers have a significant amount of money is absolutely fooling themselves. They're so low that they are depending on Ramon Santiago and Adam Everett at SS. I can't imagine how they'll be good next year. A lot of it depends on Bonderman's health, Zumaya/Rodney, Robertson returning to form, Sheffield (who looks done)...and maybe the wild card in Porcello, although DD is smart enough not to rush that kind of a pitching talent out of desperation. In many ways, I think they rushed Andr. Miller up to the bigs before he was ready, though. And we thought we had "bad" contracts with MacDougal/Contreras/Konerko. That's nothing compared to the Dontrelle Willis Train Wreck and Sheffield. Those Maybin and Jurrgens deals will really haunt them IMO.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AhGV...o&type=lgns Speculation about Kerry Wood to become new Tigers' closer. Casey Blake looks close to a 3 year deal with LA. Furcal going back to Dodgers looking for an offer again. Eckstein and Izturis might figure in, no mention of Cabrera in the mix. Twins now looking at Jack Wilson, too. Very little mention of Joe Crede's name, strange with Boras as his agent.

White Sox GM Ken Williams is known as a tough guy to deal with and has been known to change his mind on a quick whim. And he might want more than the Reds are willing to part with from the minor-league system. I love this quote from McCoy, lol.

First of all, Konerko (if healthy, like the final 6 weeks) and Buerhle are far from untradeable, that's not reality...any player can be traded for the right deal. I mean, if teams are going to pay Mark Texeira $20 million for seven years without much of a post-season resume at all, Konerko's a comparative bargain, IF HEALTHY, which he had pledged to be by undertaking a rigorous offseason training and conditioning program for the first time in his career. Second, if we put Buehrle on the market, we'd have 10-15 GM's calling within a minute or two. Thome isn't going anywhere, and neither is AJ. It makes much more sense to keep both than to trade them, especially AJ, as we certainly don't have a replacement ready at this point. Last year looked like a "rebuilding" year for both the Twins and Sox, and look what happened. This year, DET is so budget-conscious, they're signing Adam Everett, who was run out of Minnesota, to replace Edgar Renteria, who was run out of DET. Things change in a heartbeat in baseball. The Indians look to be rebuilding their bullpen, their outfield, their infield (Marte seems done, Peralta to 3B and sign a SS?, Cabrera at 2B, is Josh Barfield done, will Garko stay at 1B, Hafner done?, what about moving Victor Martinez from behind the plate), and they have huge question marks after Lee and Carmona...Westbrook will miss at least half the season, that leaves Reyes, Scott Lewis, Zach Jackson, Laffey and disappointing Jeremy Sowers. Their situation isn't much better than ours, pitching wise, and they still have a Titanic for a bullpen. Other than projecting the Twins' starting pitching to really take off, Liriano to look like the 2006 version, Blackburn and Perkins to win the Cy Young and Delmon Young the MVP, there's no team that scares me in our division right now.

Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera and Matt Kemp might all be in play...Dodgers/Yankees are discussing a possible deal. Obviously, Cano or Kemp would look mighty nice in Sox uniforms, although our leadoff problem still lingers. And the costs of acquiring either might be more than KW is willing to part with.

Does anyone really LOVE playing in Oakland though, besides Nick Swisher and those "thunder sticks" banging fans?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 01:07 PM) Ethier and Kemp Well, trading EITHER ETHIER (had to say that) or Kemp for one year of Dye is certainly a "no go." It would require the inclusion of Fields, IMO. OTOH, Dye's Californian and I don't think he would be opposed to going back out there again. I mean, the cold weather in April/May in Chicago can be a drag sometimes, but USCF was seemingly built for him. There also have to be the same concerns we have about his age, declining range and the fact that he's had no major injuries over a four year time span. He seems to be one of those guys like Jenks we expect to go down again at some point.

Obviously, Kemp, who isn't going anywhere. Or Kershaw. Yhency Brazoban? I could see KW at least PONDERING whether to take Andruw Jones off their hands if they gave us a boatload of money to offset his contract for one year, but still unlikely. The Ethier and Loney types aren't going anywhere, either.

This is what my cousin who lives in Dallas had to say about Laird and the state of Texas sports/economy (in general) Rangers are interesting. They just gave away Laird, I don't know why. He will come back to haunt them. Good eye at plate. Good bunter. Good hit-and-run. Good arm (above average). Good job with the pitchers. When you have 4 catchers you sometimes forget how valuable they are. A 25 year old injured AA arm is not value for a major league catcher. John Danks trade could still be OK if McCarthy can stay healthy. Rangers messed with his delivery when he got here and got him hurt. Through injuries, Rangers started about 12 young pitchers last year and many looked promising. If I were GM, I would try to trade Millwood and Padilla for value so I could make more spots for the kids (it's a numbers game). Economy is effecting everything. I give up Cowboys tickets next year (you missed your chance of going to a game with me). It was simple math: 2 seat options ($60,000.00) Price per game $350.00 per seat $700.00 x 10 games $7,000.00. Guaranteed price for 5 years, then it can go up to anything (no limit) so if you look at losing seat options after 5 years. $60,000.00 + $35,000.00 = $95,000.00 / 50 games = $1,900.00 per game. This works out to buying a top-of-the-line HD television for each game we don't attend. If you ignore the seat options, you can still buy a nice HD television for each game you miss. So I won't be going to games for the first time in 46 years. Can we get the KC Chiefs back to Dallas?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 08:32 AM) Its really hard to judge most trades. The Foulke to Oakland trade can be judged both ways. It might have been horrible. Maybe if it wasn't made the White Sox win it all in 2003 without Billy Koch trying to close games. Flash Gordon took over the closer role. What if he was able to remain the primary set-up guy? Maybe that team wins. On the other hand, one of the guys you get in that trade is Olivo. He turns out to be part of the deal to get Garcia, who does help the White Sox win it all. Could the Sox have traded for Garcia without Olivo? We probably will never know. Then Garcia is traded for Floyd and Gio. Floyd helps the White Sox win the Central in 2008. Would Floyd have been a White Sox if Garcia wasn't available? We will never know. Gio goes for Swisher, who sucks in his only White Sox season, but he brings back some minor leaguers who may or may not help the White Sox win things in the future. So just when you look at that trade, you can make an argument it was awful, and you can make an argument it was fantastic. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/021203closers.html Olivo was not part of the Foulke/Koch deal....he was the player to be named later for RP Chad Bradford. I think this trade and maybe the one for Adkins/Durham were the ones that were used to "pick on" KW in Moneyball, the Michael Lewis' (aka former MTV VJ Tabitha Soren's husband) book The A's trade was Foulke, Mark Johnson and RP Joe Valentine for Koch, Cotts and OF Daylan Holt.

By the way, are you feeling contented now that we have new topics since the Cabrera/accepting arbitration issue is dead? Well, it was a fun/enlightening/entertaining debate while it lasted. Not quite as heated as the Taveras threads, in the end.

But would you REALLY want to bring back Jon Garland to Chicago at a price tag of $12 million or higher? Based on last season, in what isn't exactly a hitter's park, especially at night? Maybe? I guess it's a possibility, considering he wouldn't cost a draft pick, but KW keeps hammering away at the point that it's possible to get much better production out of a 4/5 starter for considerably less than Vazquez's $11.5 million last year. Well, I guess if Jamie Moyer is asking for $20 million over 2 years at his age, almost anything is possible.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/J...an-Adkins.shtml Yeah, the ugly numbers are coming back to me. He had a 6.03 ERA with Sacramento at the time of the trade, and had given up almost 140 hits in less than 100 IP. But, in all fairness, there was the perception that if you kept those players until the end of the season and then they departed via free agency, no compensation was going to come back. In retrospect, probably KW's worst trade after Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie. He doesn't have many like this one on his resume, thankfully for the Sox organization.